killersquirrel59

NOTE: THIS QUESTION HAS NOW BEEN ANSWERED DIRECTLY BY BRANDON. ANSWER CONFIRMED THAT ALLOMANTIC PUSHES AND PULLS DO GENERATE FRICTION. SKIP TO PAGE 2 TO SEE THE QUOTE. This debate came up in another thread and is somewhat out of place there, so I thought I'd bring it up in a new post since it's an interesting question in its own right. Simply put, do allomantic pushes and pulls create friction? Several in the other thread have contended that they do not. I contend that they do. I'd like to put it to the community and here the reasoning of all concerned. Here is my argument for why they do: Vin and Kelsier are able to keep a coin suspended between them by both pushing on it. If there was no friction, this could not happen, the coin simply falling as normal due to gravity. Multiple anchor points: If there was no friction from an Allomantic push, multiple anchor points would be largely meaningless, as any push not directly beneath you would slide right off. Dropping coins to jump: Same argument as multiple anchor points. The coin would only provide a firm enough anchor to jump from if there was sufficient friction to keep it in place. This would require friction both from the top and the bottom. Without friction, Allomancers could only use coins to jump straight up, not at angles. Those are my main points. I'd be interested to see what is made of them.

Well, this wouldn't have come up much in the original trilogy, since with medieval technology there weren't too many options for how to create alloys. Correct me if I'm wrong (really, my expertise on this matter consists of what I can pull off of Google and Wikipedia) but really until electricity there weren't many options and it mostly came down to some variation of melt and mix. Most of the other modern techniques I'm skimming through all seem to require electricity in some form or another. Now with electricity starting to become a thing in Alloy of Law, who knows?

It is a pretty big leap, but it is the head canon that made the most sense to me based on a couple of factors. 1) Sometimes TenSoon bleeds, sometimes he doesn't. Blood requires an active circulatory system. This seems to me to be one of the harder things to create in a new body and the kind of thing that wouldn't be done unless necessary. 2) When in translucent true bodies, Brandon gives a pretty detailed description of them and makes no mention of organs or other internal body systems, only translucent muscles showing the artistry of the True Body underneath. If there were an active circulatory system and other organs in the way, this would be obscuring. By that logic, if they don't have these internal systems in place in their True Bodies, they don't really need them to survive. However, by the above point, they can have such systems sometimes. 3) Kandra in the prison pits are fed. This means they do need to eat. Both in the prison pits and when digesting a body however, Kandra seem to eat with their whole body, more absorbing the flesh than truly eating it. Yet both OreSeur as Renoux and later TenSoon as the dog both ate normally (the wolfhound TenSoon displaying his fondness for aged meat). The digestive system is a rather complex one involving many separate organs with different functions. I put this one last because it's not conclusive on its own (the food could simply be absorbed as if absorbing a body once in the mouth), but I think that taken with the above two points it lends weight to my conclusion. Based on these three points, the logical conclusion to me seems to be that they can have internal systems but do not require them.

I'm not down with the voluntary spiking plan. All that does is concentrate power onto a few individuals who then make perfect Kandra targets. At this point it is far more beneficial to all of us if we keep all the powers that might possibly help spread out among us. At this point I'll cast my vote for Quitania as well. She's claiming nothing, and to all appearances doing nothing (I know, pot calling kettle black to some degree). However, she seems the most suspicious to me right now. This is the point we've been waiting for though (or at least I have). We've been waiting for a Kandra to switch bodies obviously so we can start analyzing writing styles. That's where we should be directing our efforts. Look to those who are writing very differently from how they used to write or differing posting habits or times. Yes I know this only incriminates me a bit more since I have been lurking for quite a while. However I have a means to prove my credentials. Satrams, same code word as last time. I'm pretty sure you're not Kandra now since Jedal was coming after you. It will be somewhere in the roleplay part of this post below. Koll paced through the bloody mess in the alley before him. Panting slightly from his exertions, he shook the excess blood and brain matter off of his dueling club and stared down at what was left of the body before him. Koll didn't know him this time. He had just really needed someone to take his anger and aggression out on. Being hunted was not good for his already somewhat fragile mental state. "Why now?" Koll asked the mess on the cobbles in front of him as he pulled out a filthy handkerchief and began to clean the hardwood of his dueling cane. "What is so special about now that so many have to die?" No, he thought, his breathing coming back under control. If I'm going to do this, I'll do it properly. Slowly he fished in his belt pouch until finding a small, dusty parcel that he hadn't opened in years. Unwrapping the oilskin he pulled out the small bronze earring and put it in his ear. Sitting back against the wall as the sun rose over the deserted rooftops of Elendel, Koll closed his eyes and did something he had never done before. Koll prayed. "Harmony? I'm pretty rusty at how this is all supposed to work. My dad told me I'm just supposed to sit and think, but Rust and Ruin I never was much good at thinking. I guess I'm asking for your guidance in this. Does that count as thinking? I'm not really sure. Rust it all though, I'm lost here Harmony. I don't know what to do. I'm not some mythical Mistborn who can peek into the future by burning a bit of Atium or whatever else the legends said. I'm just me. I'm sitting here watching everyone I care about getting picked off one by one. And I'm sure I'll be on the chopping block myself soon. So you tell me Harmony, you all powerful sky man, tell me what I'm supposed to do? How can I save us all from these thrice-damned shapeshifting bastard Kandra? What, no answer Harmony? That's what I thought." With a grunt of disgust he pulled the earring out and put it back in its oilskin pouch. What a waste of time that was, he thought gloomily. No one ever got anywhere by expecting some god to solve their problems for them or give them the answers. No you only got answers in this world through hard work, your sweat, and the other guy's blood. Looking down at the mess on the cobbles as he stood up Koll shrugged and put away his dueling cane. "Sorry buddy. If it's any consolation to your spirit, I do feel a little better now." Note, I'll be using similar tactics in future with this code if you're willing Satrams. This gives at least a way that two of us can keep tabs on each other, at least for the present. Satrams can verify my posts are mine, and I can call him out at any point to reveal the code to check if he's still him. Kandra would have to get us both in one night to pull it off, which would be rather difficult and obvious for them. They can only take one of us per night, and if one of us dies on the same night that a Kandra body-hops, it's a fair bet that the other one is the new Kandra now. I do point this out in the hopes of discouraging the Kandra among us from such tactics of course

Good luck convincing the Allmighty Stick that it should be plutonium instead.

I doubt it would be as significant as it is to Allomancy. Just as the most important metal in Allomancy is Lerasium, Atium is likely the most powerful metal in Hemalurgy. Lerasium probably does something quite notable, but I doubt it is as potent as "steal any power ever".

You very clearly cannot push on any part of the metal. It's stated time and time again that you can only push on the complete object, not on parts. Kelsier's trick of spinning the metal was some kind of legendary savant stunt that is supposed to be generally impossible, not something anyone can do. And the thickness of the lines is supposed to reference distance away, not size. As for the actual question, this one bugged me a bit too when I was reading Alloy, so I looked it up. It is definitely worth noting that railroad rails are not one giant piece. They are individual pieces between 15 and 40 ft long.

The way I understood it was that Kandra do not need any internal organs to function. However, they sometimes create them in order to look more realistic in their mimicry.

Ooh. I like the lie detector idea. Nice one.

Hmmm...I wonder if I could combine Dakhor with Gold Feruchemy to sacrifice myself for grand effects then instantly heal before it killed me.

I suppose it is true that the Investiture on Sel would have to be able to function anywhere. Otherwise the Dakhor monks wouldn't have been able to use their bizarre abilities in the invasion of Arelon. Also Forgery seems to work anywhere just fine. So it isn't a limitation of the nature of Investiture on Sel that restricts area, just a restriction of AonDor.

That is true. I guess I never thought about the fact that the Dor was still providing Investiture, just at a lower rate. However, do we know how far from Elantris this power extends though? As I understood it, AonDor was only possible in the immediate vicinity of Elantris, at least only in Arelon and Teod if not only in Elantris itself. No real potential to travel if that is the case. Though the sheer insane power of being an Elantrian Feruchemist might just be worth it. Plus if I can pick any powers in the forms they come prepackaged in on their native worlds, I'd be an Elsecaller Radiant anyway, so I can Soulcast the materials I need and transport myself wherever I need to be when I need to be there.

There must be friction produced by Allomancy. We see a coin suspended in the air between two allomancers both pushing on it several times. I don't see how this would be any different. I have a built in system for Duralumin already. I don't need anything else for that. I like the idea for using Tin to enhance accuracy of Coinshots.

It's mostly for the fact that my combination is based on taking that energy and channeling that extra into everything else. If I'm based on Sel Investiture for that, the only way I can get more is to go back to Elantris. If I'm based on Roshar, almost anywhere in the world will give me another supply of Investiture in a few days, and in the meantime I can suck it out of money. Even though there is more on Sel, it's far easier to get it when I need it on Roshar.

So the game system I'm working on is largely dependent on specific maneuvers that can be performed while burning each metal. I have now finished the first draft of all 19 metals on their own. The next step for me is to write a series of Mistborn Maneuvers, tricks that can only be performed while burning multiple metals at once. I'm looking for a flood of awesome ideas and figured this is the place to get it. These can be things that bend or even slightly break the rules. My system has a way of allowing for such things at high levels. I'm not looking for any kind of system help on this (at least not yet), really just ideas for cool tricks that only a Mistborn could accomplish that I can write up as maneuvers. Here's a few basic ideas I had so far Lay the Road Before You: Vin's trick with the horseshoes as she continually recovered them and thus could effectively fly endlessly. Allomantic telekinesis: Push and Pull on an object with exactly equal force so that the object remains suspended in the air. If the force is great enough (which it should be given that it's your whole mass involved) this should be enough to overcome the pull of gravity (like a suspended object pulled in two directions). The Mistborn can then turn and effectively control the object's flight through the air as he himself turns and adjust it's position relative to himself by slightly altering the push/pull ratio. Any help would be appreciated. Throw out any ideas you have.

This thread is absolutely Terris-ble. I'm groaning so hard my sides are ready to Nicroburst.

World of Ash certainly isn't bad. I had missed that quote.

Hiding things inside the body seems far more viable than making the body out of such things.

Sel's access to Investiture though seems rather unreliable and is dependent on location. Taking Roshar's seems far more reliable. Even if you don't get a chance to recharge during a Highstorm, it's in their money which they also use as lamps.

I always took that reference to be a corruption of terms, since I don't recall them ever actually having the term Final Empire in Alloy of Law. I took it as a more general term for all of the time from the Ascension to the, well the Sazed Ascension. Edit: This is by no means a necessary thing to push by the way. I am writing a game book and just looking for cool titles I can use for each possible setting time period really. The Final Empire is obvious, and I was just going to use Alloy of Law as a setting name, but was looking for a cool title so I could say something like, "how about a game set in the _____________ era?"

Oh now that is just terrifying. Don't even say things like that.

So I was having a discussion with a friend about the Mistborn setting post Final Empire as seen in Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages. It occurred to me that we have an easy title for the setting of the Final Empire (namely itself, the Final Empire), and most of us seem to have fallen into referring to the events of Wax and Wayne's story simply as the Alloy of Law setting. However, I every time I've heard the time post-Final Empire referred to, it has usually been done in an awkward and roundabout way (usually a purely out of story descriptive manner such as "the time period of the Well of Ascension"). I think this is deplorable, as each good era for storytelling should have a name so it can be easily referred to. With that in mind, I submit that this period should be called The Days of Ash and Mist. If there is another already agreed upon term in use, I apologize. I haven't seen one. Thoughts? Comments? Snide remarks?

Yeah, it's basically the answer to unlimited power in every aspect of Feruchemy since there are plenty of rather useless things that can be stored (or rather things that you wouldn't horribly miss while storing). That on top of the ability to take investiture from other power sources as well is just nuts. I'm personally hoping we are going to see some stringent riders put on this power when it finally presents itself in the second trilogy.

Sell, no Kandra could manage to be that irritating. Marsh will leave Scadrial to join the 17th Shard.

This is mostly based on the assumption that most forms of investiture are at least roughly equal. I would need to skimp a bit during the Weeping, but that's only a few weeks per year. Just make sure to store up a bit extra in prep. Even without easy access to Stormlight though, Nicrosil Feruchemy has such easy access to investiture it's painful. As I understand it, I could store one type of attribute and through a Nicrosil Mind intermediary, convert it to a more useful one. So walk around at 75% weight like Wax and then take that excess and put it into all the others as needed.