killersquirrel59

Back onto the original subject of this topic before it got sidetracked on the nature of why Aons couldn't target Reod Elantrians (I personally like that term, even if it is non-canon. I never could get behind calling them zombies. Before coming on this thread I just called them magic lepers.) There are a few other notable advantages to the state. From the fact that even those who are very familiar with Elantrians (like Galladon) make note of the fact that there is no need to breathe and no heartbeat, I would assume (though this is by no means proven canon) that regular Elantrians still have heartbeats and need to breathe, though they may be able to circumvent this with clever use of AonDor. Similarly, by the very fact that they produced food with AonDor we can assume they ate as well for all the reasons that Raoden outlined on society being entirely based around food. Also, the true Elantrian state likely aged as well. There is talk of long life, but I think that if they were actually immortal it would have been mentioned. All of these taken together imply several notable benefits of being a Reod Elantrian. First and most obvious is the effective immortality. With the body stuck in effective suspended animation, you could exist for centuries as long as you were relatively sedentary to avoid injury. Furthermore, you could remain in this state most of the time then if you get injured, revert back to a true Elantrian state, use Aon Ien to heal, then return to being a magic leper free of injury. Second obvious conclusion would be for use in surgery. While it would hurt like hell, without a heartbeat, there is no circulation and thus far less risk of bleeding out during a difficult procedure. The state could be used in situations for underwater construction as well, taking advantage of the lack of need for breath.

So when and where has Odium been? Is it possible to put together a rough timeline based on the known chronology thus far? The question came up on the Stormlight Archive boards of just when Honour was shattered. If it was the Last Desolation that splintered Honour, then we're looking at 4500 years on Roshar. We know at some point before that he was on Sel to splinter Devotion and Dominion. Now the events on Sel during Elantris and Hope of Elantris are noted as being hundreds of years but not thousands before Mistborn, and those are roughly 340 years before Way of Kings. If we assume a reasonably bounded high end, we can say that Elantris is roughly 1000 years before Way of Kings. Now if we assume that Honour was splintered in the last desolation, that means that Odium has not been on Sel for at least 3500 years before the events of Elantris. I know there are a lot of assumptions in here. I'm kind of hoping that there is some more information buried in a WoB that I missed that might help here. Any other thoughts or info that can be used?

We know that AonDor only works properly in the proximity of Elantris (reasonably far range, still working in Teod, but still a bounded system based on proximity to Elantris). The question is though, is this inherent to the magic system or due to something else? We know that Elantris and its four gate cities are a giant Aon Rao that serves to amplify the power of the Dor. I'm wondering if Elantris was built where it was because that is where AonDor works, or whether AonDor works there because that is where they built Elantris. Would it be possible for instance, that if another giant Aon Rao city was constructed by one attuned to the Aons elsewhere in the world if AonDor would suddenly start working there as well, and the Shaod start taking people from that region. Might make an interesting strategy if done in Fjorden...

When I was reading the description of how the illusions absorbed stormlight, I detected a bit of the smell of burning Handwavium, but it worked well enough. It sounded a bit like Brandon came up with everything, then somewhere in the drafting process went, "Crap! Illusions on the self are pointless if you glow like a lite brite." In any case, it works.

1) Mistborn - Brandon Sanderson 2) Stormlight Archive - Brandon Sanderson 3) Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson 4) A Song of Ice and Fire - George R.R. Martin 5) Bartimaeus Trilogy - Jonathan Stroud 6) Nightside - Simon R. Green 7) Deathstalker - Simon R. Green Couldn't narrow it down to 5 so there's my top 7. Only counted series, defining series as 3 or more books.

The Shard Schadenfreude. Sponsors an investiture system involving drawing power from causing others misfortune.

It might not be particularly useful to actually damage chalkling attackers but would be a fantastic way to gain battlefield control, sweeping away enemy chalklings.

There is no reference at all to the characters' ethnicity in Warbreaker that I remember. Nothing to suggest that on Nalthis, the jungle is full of hispanic people, which it really wasn't even on earth, given that the modern interpretation of a hispanic look is mostly the product of interbreeding between the native peoples of Central and South America and the Spanish invaders. Personally when reading Warbreaker, I pictured the Hallandrans as tan, but not dark-skinned and the Idrians, weirdly enough as Scottish (though that may have been severely influenced by the Graphic Audio version of the audiobook). I can fully accept that my vision of them is no more "right" than anyone else's, just noting that just because Hallandran is a jungle does not in any way require them to be dark skinned. EDIT: I'm also more than a bit of an Anglophile, so I tend to picture and expect British accents everywhere in media. Couple more suggestions as well. I just recently went through Warbreaker again and think I need to revise a few of those choices. I'd forgotten how amiable Denth was at first, and David Oakes conveys stuck up a bit too much. I think I'd replace him Daniel Mays. He's normally a bit ridiculous but if anyone out there watched Ashes to Ashes all the way to the finale, he can do villains when needed to far better than I think anyone expected. I still think Carlyle could pull off Vasher, but as an alternative could also easily now see Richard Armitage. He does the dark and brooding thing really well, particularly for anyone whose seen him as Guy of Gisbourne in the BBC Robin Hood adaptation.

I disagree. Bartbug you clearly exist for no other purpose than to serve us by running awesome games for us all. This injury is rather inconvenient on all of us and really a dereliction of duty on your party. I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that you regenerate the damaged tissue immediately and get back to your primary function (Just in case sarcasm tone isn't coming across in text, I'm obviously completely joking. Hope you feel better soon but take the time you need to recover).

I always thought that Hoid might have inserted himself among Alendi's followers going up to the Well, but have been surprised by Rashek's betrayal at the end. Being there that would explain where he found out about Lerasium. It is noted he has a nugget, though as far as I know it's not noted where he got it. Hell, he could have placed himself as one of Rashek's initial supporters all being given Lerasium then just scarpered off with it rather than eating it to become Mistborn.

Hmmm. I never really thought about that. A bonding factor would make a lot of sense and explain most of the problems away. It doesn't answer everything but it works if you don't look at it too closely. I think I have a new head canon. Thanks for that.

@Voidus At least according to the MAG which as we all know is written in water, connection is more like social connection. It is your ability to connect to other people. So when storing you are almost autistic, unable to understand social cues and showing no social grace, and when tapping you are a perfect social butterfly. I'm proposing a kind of inverse of that for Conscience, turning the same idea inward to your ability to understand yourself and make moral judgments from it. @king of nowhere I like hygiene. I'd definitely love to be able to store up a month's worth of showers and shaving all at once and then not have to worry about it for a while. Also thought of another good one: Specificity. It functions basically like the amount of detail noticed. When storing, everything washes to basically look the same. When tapping you notice all the minute differences and little things most people miss. When tapping a lot at once you see like you have the 3rd Heightening.

Knowing that 200 million Americans are watching won't make me enjoy it more either, but it will make it get renewed for a second season/made at all in the first place, whereas if that doesn't happen it won't be, then no one can enjoy it. @Weiry I was not aware of the controversy over the cover art or the fact that it was not done by the usual artist who works closely with Brandon. As for the idea of "whitewashing" the cast, I agree there should absolutely be more things that try to shift us away from that stereotype and towards a better inclusion for all actors. However, I know what that process will look like and it will involve a lot of projects failing before a few succeed anyway and slowly the perception will change. I have confidence it will happen, but it won't happen fast. And in the meantime, I'd rather not have something I really love and would pay enormous amounts of money to get to see on screen be written off as one of those early test cases for the movement. I don't want an adaptation of this that could be so amazing martyred for the sake of change. I'd like to actually watch the show. I don't give a damnation about the colour of their skin for this piece, I'd watch it if they had an entire cast of talking bears. However, that's because I love this series already. Most of the mainstream will not feel that way, sad as it is. And at this point, though I think shifting the cultural viewpoint on the matter is a very good thing, at this point I'd really rather not sacrifice something I care so much about for the sake of making a point.

Holy rust you're right. I wonder why Tor agreed to that. Has to be a limited time thing I'm sure.

I think some of these are straying a bit outside the Feruchemical paradigm. Storing time is a really tough one since by its very nature that would have to be external. Even if it only affected the user, it seems like too much. Maybe a small variant to store the user's perception of time, actually changing the frames per second he experiences time in, but not actually changing how he moves through time. Experience is a cool idea. A nice flipside of Copper. Basically storing muscle-memory of a skill. Great for game mechanics in an RPG. Emotional state is viable, but I have a feeling that is going to be what the practical upshot of Duralumin storing Connection turns out to be when we see it in a book. Temporal sight how you describe it is...weird. You're not really storing anything and taking it back by that definition, just looking in different directions. I can't see that as really viable for Feruchemy. Fertility is an interesting concept. Not too sure how that would work though, as storing it doesn't really cost you anything since you aren't constantly having sex (one would hope). Sex appeal I think is also a bit too external an idea for Feruchemy. Connection already pushes the boundaries on that a lot, and most of sex appeal is based on the preferences of those observing you rather than any inherent trait of your own. Sex drive is a great idea though. I could definitely see that one. Height seems too physical to me, but given that all Feruchemy produces something of a physical change I guess it's viable. Hardness is interesting. How would you picture that working? Do you mean skin hardening into built in body armour? As for my own ideas, I'd say Concentration would be a good one (incredibly distracted and ADD when storing, hyper focused when tapping). Basically Feruchemical Ritalin. An interesting one could also be storing Conscience. When storing you're basically a sociopath; when tapping you are hyper aware of your own moral choices. This might be too much like emotions but storing Contentment. When storing you're grumpy and discontented with life, when tapping everything seems perfect and just the way it should be. Storing Patience/Tolerance? When storing you are very agitated, the slightest thing setting you off. When tapping you can resist all those urges to just sock your annoying friend Wayne in the mouth? And finally, Wonder. When storing, everything looks drab and the same, nothing special. When tapping you see the beauty inherent in everything around you far more acutely, and can be inspired by innovation and art far more readily.

This is possible, however it makes little sense when considered in context. The Inquisitors were so concerned with the Spikes losing power that they felt the need to pound the spikes directly through one person and into another. This implies a very fast (at least initial) rate of decay. This is why for the same reason a slow rate of decay makes no sense. It doesn't work to have one set of hemalurgic spikes be so unstable that they must be pounded directly from one into another and other spikes that hold their charge for years without trouble. If the danger of decay was simply in the initial insertion, Inquisitors wouldn't wait to round up all 11 Mistings/Mistborn needed to make an Inquisitor before beginning the process. They'd spike into either random other people, each other or the other subjects (I could totally see them facing two subjects face to face on the table and spiking them both into each other simultaneously), then immediately kill those people leaving the spikes behind to build a stockpile of, ready to use at their leisure when they found new Inquisitor candidates.

Rock is the only one I pictured as being really anything other than a white guy while reading the books, and him I pictured initially as Polynesian (probably something to do with the sound of the Horneater language), but then on the reread picked up that Horneaters have red hair, and that just got really confusing. On the second read through I started picturing the Horneaters as Scottish (big people with red hair from the highlands) and it worked sort of well. And some part of me really also just wants to hear Robbie Coltrane say Numuhukmakiaki'ailalunamor. Also Take a look at the cover art. Kaladin and I'm not sure who the other one is, but I think it's Szeth, are not black. They aren't Asian either. Kaladin looks tan but both of them look like white guys. Now I know Brandon has said that he pictures the Alethi as Asian/Pacific Islanders. However clearly even the art department at Tor can't accept this and needed white guys for the book covers. Either that or there is some internal conflict or miscommunication between Brandon and his artists. In either case, it highlights my point, sad though that point is.

@WeiryWriter I apologize if I caused any offense Weiry. It certainly was not my intention. I was trying to communicate what I saw as the best way to get this series that clearly both of us love (otherwise we would certainly not still be posting on this topic 6 pages in) made into an equally awesome filmed adaptation. I did not picture the cast as being Asian when reading the books. It actually came as a rather large surprise to me to read that from Brandon. I pictured them as just being tan. So it isn't that big a leap for me to see white actors playing the parts. However I can see how it would be difficult to hear that for someone of colour particularly since non-whites aren't usually very well represented heroic fantasy. That said, I do still stand by what I said, only wishing to have been a bit more tactful in how I said it. I don't think it's a good thing that something like this would require a mostly white cast to be successful. I think it really speaks alot to the inherent racism of our times. But it is sadly the truth. And for something this big, it needs to be super successful and popular in the mainstream or it will never get made. The budget required would be astronomical, on the scale of GoT or higher given the non-earth landscapes and greater amount of CGI. If it is not incredibly popular among mainstream western culture, it will just flop. That will mean making some concessions. And in today's culture, one of those sadly necessary concessions will be a mostly white cast. It's not right, but it is reality. And as for benefiting the story, I'd say it getting made at all certainly benefits the story over it not getting made for reasons of racial casting. As for anime, I personally don't like anime. I've never like the Japanese animation style. It just doesn't resonate with me. I have many friends who do like it and more power to them. However, what we all can agree on is that anime is not mainstream popular. It's still seen as a kid's thing. I know fully well that isn't necessarily true, but perception is what will cause a project to succeed or fail. If I heard about an awesome new fantasy action series coming to STARZ, Showtime or HBO called The Stormlight Archive, I'd probably go check it out and see what the fuss was about. If I heard about a new anime series, likely airing on Cartoon Network if it airs anywhere at all in America called The Stormlight Archive, I'd probably think, "Eh, another hokey anime. Pass," and never think about it again. I'm not saying anime is a terrible medium and should not be produced. It's not to my tastes, but that isn't the point. I'm saying that it isn't popular enough. ------------------------------ Now a few others here have criticized some of my casting thoughts on age grounds as well. I'll admit many of my choices are far older than they are portrayed in the books. However, age is another thing to right out the window in most fantasy adaptations for a simple reason. We in the modern western world cannot really grasp the idea of a 12-15 year old going to battle and fighting for his life. We read about it but it kind of just falls away. In much the same way, we don't really think about 13 year old girls getting married and having children by the time they're 14 or 15. However genre-appropriate it is, it just sets us off the wrong way. This is why Game of Thrones aged all the characters between 5 and 10 years each. It was shocking at first to see on the screen, but you get used to it. The other reason is that these stories often focus on a young person or people. However, most of the good experienced actors are not that young, and it is a ridiculously huge risk to cast an unknown in such a pivotal role no matter how good they appear at auditions. Speaking as a relatively young, unknown actor who is usually pretty good at auditions and usually gets callbacks but never gets cast, I can personally attest to this. Pinning your new and very expensive series on the talents of people like Ben Daniels, Richard Armitage and Jeremy Irons is a hell of a lot safer bet than pinning vast sums of money on the chance that 3 unknowns all happen to pay off. Game of Thrones is mostly filled with reasonably known actors, and yet that show is seen as still having taken insane risks in its casting, given that Kit Harrington, Emilia Clarke, Maisie Williams, Sophie Turner, and Jack Gleeson were all pretty damnation unknown, and most of the story is focused around one or more of those roles. It's really awesome that the risk paid off that time, but almost no casting director is going to take the kind of risks that they got away with. It's just too big a chance. For a combination of these two reasons, it is quite common for film portrayals of fantasy characters to be aged up a few years. Think of it as percentages of life. When the average life-span was 40-45, you could easily imagine a 20 year old looking beaten down and weather-worn having seen battle, watched his friends die and being a gloomy, grumpy bastard of a veteran (Kaladin at the beginning of Way of Kings). However, to communicate that idea to an audience of modern people who see 20 as really still a kid in most ways, it just is not going to convey properly to see a 20 year old on the screen, no matter how good an actor he is. There is a cultural block. Richard Armitage may be a bit too old at 44, but, you're going to want someone at least in his late 20s if not 30s for Kaladin to convey the right image on screen. He also needs to give an aura of command after he finds himself, and there are not many 20-somethings who will be able to accurately portray that. Age of actors is more about comparative age anyway. Set a new baseline and work from there. If you use a 35 year old actor for Kaladin, then use a 55-60 year old actor for Dalinar instead of a 45 year old one, and a 25-30 year old actor for Adolin and a 22-25 year old actor for Renarin. Comparisons are far more noticed than objective ages unless they're REALLY obviously off. Also, don't count out an actor from being able to play roles outside their own age. Most actors (other than child actors obviously) have a solid working age range of about 5-10 years in either direction of their actual age. Some have more and some less based on their distinctive looks, but their actual age is not really that important. Let's not forget that the most famous portrayal of Peter Pan was done by a 47 year old woman (Mary Martin in the 1960 film).

Just a small interesting poll as to how we all came to discover the Cosmere. I don't mean the books themselves. Did you read about it in an interview or other WoB? Get an inkling that something might be connected from the books themselves? Notice the recurrence of the name Hoid? I remembered Hoid from reading Mistborn when he dropped his name to Kaladin in Way of Kings. After that I took a look online to see if anyone else had noticed that and fell face first into the Cosmere.

And how many of you thought that was just figurative language on your first read through of Mistborn? I know I did.

I think you're looking at this issue all wrong. You are absolutely correct that it makes no sense to contend with the Alethi over the gemhearts when in all probability the Chasmfiends pupate all over the plains. Why then do they do it? Imagine you are the Parshendi council of 5, 6 years ago when the Alethi are first marching to the Shattered Plains. There was no guarantee they were going to set up their warcamps on the western edge as they did. If uncontested, they likely would have kept moving inward towards your city. Then the Alethi discover the gemhearts and it is a great boon to you because their greed is diverting them from a genocidal rampage. However, their leaders still need to at least have a token reason for stopping to go after gemhearts rather than continuing on after your people. So you send strike forces to harry them and contest them for gemhearts on their side long enough for them to entrench themselves there, well away from your city. It doesn't really matter to you where you fight them as long as it isn't near your city, so letting them choose the ground on the western edge is fine enough. You have to keep fighting to keep them occupied away from your city. Over the years you start sending less and less warriors to convince them they are winning in the hope that they will get bored and go home, believing they have won. However, you underestimate their greed which is why they're still here 6 years later and you need a new plan.

I definitely agree this should not be made now. I'd say to wait at least, given Brandon's far more active writing pace than some <cough Martin cough>, I'd say waiting until book 3 is published to start work on a series is a good bench mark. Given Brandon's pace that means that book 4 would probably be published around the time that the first season is airing. This then gives Brandon 3 more years (a pittance to someone burning as much Bendalloy as he does when writing) to finish book 5 and there we have our tv series of the first half of the Archive. I'm sorry but anime is a terrible idea. Whether correct or not, public opinion on the matter is that animation is for children. Animated series would not do well enough to carry an interest. Even ones meant for adults are deliberately juvenile. The prevailing opinion is that animation cannot convey anything serious, and certainly not anything epic. On top of that, there is something special about the connection you can make with a piece of live-action film that just isn't there with animation. The nuances of emotion on actors' faces are so much more than can ever be conveyed in frown lines drawn on furrowed brows. Particularly for a series like this where so much is down to the eyes, that is a perfect opportunity for face close-ups that can show so much. An real actor could convey 3 pages of Kaladin moaning and being depressed in a few seconds of closeup. An anime could not. As to casting, again, correct or not, there is a general impression in most of America at least that fantasy should be populated by British actors (I noted this on the Warbreaker casting thread as well; I'm half convinced most Americans think England is a fantasy land). Couple that with the fact that British actors are usually just better anyway and I now present my proposed cast list for The Stormlight Archive. Note: I know that Brandon says he pictures Alethi as being a cross between Asian and Hawaiian. That is wonderfully progressive and cosmopolitan of him (particularly for a white American from Utah) to be able to write epic fantasy and not picture everyone as white. I really mean that. However, the fact is that the inherent racism of our times means that a film or tv series entirely filled with Asian and Pacific Islander actors would not market well in the west. It's not a good thing and it's certainly not something to be proud of, but it is reality at least for now and quite frankly I'd rather have a series that does well than one that is the most progressive in its casting choices. It is generally accepted in fantasy, and this works for marketing, that whatever the dominant culture presented is (in this case The Vorin kingdoms) is presented as some form of British, and anything outside of that (Shin, Thaylens, Horneaters, Reshi, etc.) are shown as foreigners in some way, usually through skin colour, accents, and other obvious means of not being native. Kaladin – Richard Armitage Shallan – Emma Watson Dalinar – Ben Daniels Adolin – Bradley James Renarin – Eddie Redmayne Jasnah – Emilia Fox Navani – Sarah Parish Taravangian – Jeremy Irons Kabsal – Martin Freeman Szeth – Raza Jaffrey Syl* - Maisie Williams Pattern* - Paul Bettany Eshonai – Jaime Murray Gaz – Bill Bailey Sadeas – Ian McShane Amaram – James Purefoy Hoid/Wit – Rowan Atkinson Elhokar – Harry Lloyd (2nd Choice, Ryan Gage) Rock – Robbie Coltrane Moash – Michael Fassbender Sigzil – David Harewood Lopen – Sam Troughton Honour/Stormfather* - Christopher Lee (hoping he lives long enough, the guy is 92 now). *CG role. Judged only on voice.

This is not necessarily the case. Soulcasting seems to work based on two different cognitive factors. The first is the intent and experience of the person doing the Soulcasting as well as his/her ability to picture or convey his/her desires. The second factor is on the receiving end since the thing being soulcast is being directly negotiated with in the Cognitive Realm, therefore its own perceptions would play a role in the final product. Based on these two factors it is not at all necessary that what is being soulcast become human. In the case of blood, that was both a primary essence and thus able to be manufactured more easily, and secondarily exactly what Jasnah was trying to produce. In the case of meat, I rather doubt that most of the ardents are trying to create human meat, and therefore it is likely to be something in between the meat they picture when they think of meat (most likely Chull) and as much of that idea as the original material can comprehend.

You're right. I remembered the events but not the specifics correctly. It could I suppose be a factor of it working less efficiently, however this seems unlikely given Brandon's writing style. Given how much he usually writes in explicit detail about how his magic systems work and the complications around them, this seems a very odd omission. And bad alloys for allomancy don't always work just less efficiently. It is noted that most of the time a bad alloy will make you very sick or possibly even kill you. Only if the percentages are very close, only off by a slight bit, will the alloy work but less efficiently. This one I'm with you on. The earring is a bizarre anomaly that breaks the established hemalurgical rules in several ways. This bugged me a lot when reading the books. Same thing applies to Wax's earring in Alloy. He almost never wears it, and yet it has still been confirmed to carry a hemalurgic charge allowing Harmony to speak to him. Maybe we just don't understand this bit about time spent out of the body very well.

I was a big fan of The Parshman: The Desolation of Odium.