Savanorn

Pardon, but I don't know how to link. Maybe like this?

We'd assume after if they were part of the idea to 'give up' TFE. Happen to remember where? Yikes. And I thought I had daddy issues... I stand corrected.

Functionally, close enough. The fact that I directly stated that mistsickness is the snapping of unsnapped allomancers, knowledge of the noble practices and the context of the discovery that Elend makes in HoA ought fill the gaps. Or so I imagined, if I was unclear I'm glad you clarified. This said, entirely correct on your behalf. Well, Vedlew does call the mist killing people a 'myth of the skaa' or something similar, given the small size of the Terris population I'd think it'd be notable if someone fell and they didn't hear about it. Plus knowing that the Terris population is relatively high in f-genes that haven't degraded (via a-gene interaction) despite a millennia of breeding would suggest a relatively high degree of homogeneity among their population. This would imply that the Terris had sort of 'bred out' allomancy. Then again if we're talking theory as opposed to practicality....hrm... I'd say the Southerners would have to be susceptible, as they have some allomancers in their population, although they are apparently rarer. This would imply they likely have closer to 'baseline' A genes, as opposed to the northern gene pool which has had 'more' A genes. It is possible they'd have reduced rates of mistfallen though. Not sure about whether this is because they also have F genes (which the medallions would suggest they do) or because they have had fewer 'infusions' of noble high concentration A genes. As a side note. It's also likely somewhat significant that the Lord Ruler chose to have children despite knowing that in theory both his powers were hereditary. So either he cared (at some stage) more about having children than the potential risk of a Fullborn, or he knew they wouldn't be, or some other third option?

To throw in...I think sentient life on Scadrial requires that slight preservation surplus. The Terris are immune to 'mistsickness' because they cannot be Allomancers and the mists only Snap unsnapped Allomancers. It's why the nobility was also immune.

It's also worth noting that it's heavily implied that Dalinar, as a proto Radiant, has unconsciously tapped Stormlight on multiple occasions. We've also seen from Kal especially the effects on vigour, speed and all-around performance even relatively minor intakes of Stormlight can grant. Plus, Dalinar could just age well. To throw an anecdote out; I met a guy last year who was in his late fifties and powerlifted as a hobby. This guy was still built like a brickwall, even though in his youth he probably would have had a leaner, sharper physique, he was still functionally strong.

Actually, it's pretty notable that to have so much breeding between feruchemy genes seems to have eliminated the potential for allomancy. At all. As I recall, the Terris didn't suffer from the mists as of HoA at all. Like, the Terris people were relatively isolated and evidently 'bred up' their F genes, but in doing so lost their A genes. This might even explain how, despite losing big populations of active feruchemists and selective breeding feruchemy just kept coming back to their genes. The rest of the world, apparently, accidentally bred up their A genes and lost their F genes. I'm a little puzzled as to how this could have happened, though, as F genes are always on and relatively overt while A genes seem so subtle... Unless not everyone was equally given F and A genes to begin with, or perhaps being so close to the WoA and thus Ruin's prison somehow raised the likelihood of F genes appearing in the Terris people. Basically, at the WoA you have a mix of both Ruin and Preservation, so it makes sense that the people close to this might be, over the many many generations, subtly endowed with a greater proportion of the art that is the mix of these powers. Of course the major dispute to this would be that, so far as we know, people in tFE Luthadel don't accidentally or spontaneously develop feruchemical powers. But, then again, they are already A-gene dominant and receiving regular 'infusions' thanks to noble crossbreeding and if the changes were subtle it's easy to see how this effect could be eliminated. To further ramble about my hypothetical model for how sDNA works... It is mentioned that a lot of the F and A genes have been weakened over time, allomancer has definitely decline substantially since the Terris Ascension and so maybe if a strong feruchemist and allomancer had children they could be Fullborn, but maybe by the time of AoL such a thing is largely impossible. Like, to add some figures, let us say that... A lerasium mistborn has a AsDNA 'rating' of 0.95 A feruchemist has an FsDNA 'rating' of 0.95 In this model breeding them represents a multiplication of the two genes. Now, it weakens both, but has the possibility for their immediate issue to be Fullborn. To arbitrarily pick a number, if the sum of the two is over, say, 0.75 a Fullborn is possible, if it is less it cannot happen, the 'spirit genes' have degenerated too much and become too weak. A twinborn can still occur, or other allomancers or ferrings, but any issue is going to be allomantically or feruchemically weaker. Now, it's worth noting that as of TFE, using my theoretical model, the 'gene stock' might already be severely degenerated. Like, by TFE a mistborn might have a 'rating' of 0.7 or less. It may already have been impossible to generate fullborn, but there's no reason Rashek would know this. So we come to AoL and the 'average sDNA' rating might be something like 0.4, it makes a lot of sense that under such a system Additional stuff: ->I think that there also might be a 'tolerance margin' that if exceeded simply grants that one power. So if one were to breed a 0.8 Allomancer and a 0.4 Feruborn, the result would also be pretty much always an allomancer, as these genes seem to dominate. So it's not enough to have the genes, you might also have to be within, say, 0.2 of each to grant 'twinborn' powers. Or perhaps the further the higher the 'tolerance' the less likely twinborn powers are. ->I think that it's probably more complex than this model, because, this model would predict that a decline once started would rapidly result in huge losses of power over the generations, which we don't know, but would seem unlikely. -> the above model would work differently for F/F or A/A pairings. -> for the sake of clarity I've presumed that whoever has the right Sgenes is an active metallomancer, obviously this need not be true. So, yeah, this seems a robust, if vague, model that takes all we know and doesn't require any stretching of canon or WoBs.

Hmmmm. The big issue is that the Diagram was a brilliant plan -so far as the things it did plan. Vargo has gone from the unimportant king of an unimportant place to one of the most powerful men in the world. In addition he has discovered secrets that most scholars would only dream of. Could he have done better? Maybe, but whose plan would he follow? Plus I think he wasn't at his most evil, he might not have been compassionate, but his end goals have always been relatively lofty.

Ah no problems yata. I thought it was 1/5?

Why thank you. I've had a bit of practice at this sort of thing so don't feel bad. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Hmmm. You've quite accurately divined my concerns. That's why I said we might need to change the terminology. Because it seems to be no one actually can be born that way. Something like ...Twintotal, but less stupid. I guess Fullborn could be kind of ironic... Because even if you inherited both genes you'd almost have to end up Twinborn, unless you could become a mistborn who also was a ferring. I thought this was what the Set were thinking of doing? It'd be possible, I'd think.

Regarding the inquisitors, it seems like something Brandon weighed up for a while and then settled on a no. This said. It is worth noting that inquisitors are usually mistborn or mistings regardless, so their kids being allomancers would be possible. Without a full transcript I'd be wary of specific stuff with sDNA particulars. Past that...mreemm... Mmmmm. This makes a lot of sense. It would also imply that twinborn and ferrings both could result in new feruchemists. I suppose it's worth noting that the "natural" form of allomancers is the misting whilst the natural form of feruborn appear to be full feruchemist. It makes sense the mixing of the genes would change expression. This makes me think; were there ever actually any other Fullborn than the Lord Ruler? (Terminology might need an update)

Ah neat. That makes more sense. Hmm. I thought at least a part of this would be counteracted by Harmony making Snapping easier. There's really two aspects to detecting an allomancer; they need to have the genes, but they need to be snapped. Wait, 7%? How did you get that figure?

So a thought comes to me post Mistborn reread. Why are allomancers so rare? Sure in the era of TFE the known abundance of allomancers was limited by knowledge, as well as socioeconomic factors such as nobles generally having fewer children. But by HoA it is identified that around 16 percent of skaa are mistings (more, as it is implied that Preservation didn't reveal mistings that were irrelevant). Furthermore it would seem that an allomancer does not need to be born to parents who are allomancers, although that likely enhancers their likelihood of inheriting allomancy. Fast forward to AoL and more and it seems that all the allomancers don't seem as common as they ought to be. Especially with a reduced class divide.

I'm rather sure the Horneaters usually use huge broadswords, but that would be pretty awesome. I'm actually not sure if all shardblades are as changeable as Kaladin's, at first thought I'd actually say no, based on the fact that Syl naturally changes shape radically even as a spren while the others don't do this so much. But, thinking about it, I'd expect yes. A spren already has to shift forms drastically to become a blade, it'd be strange if they couldn't do that a little more to be an axe, spear or hammer. We did, yes

I'd suggest a slight modification of your list to make the ones that we're rather sure, those with the most evidence, more prominent. Like Nalan and Ash. Maybe a separate font or something. Otherwise...yeah a pretty good gathering of the current knowledge.

Personally, I would think a 'even if it costs my life' would be more Skybreaker than Windrunner. Like, maybe, "I will obey the law, even should it cost me my life" Like, a Windrunner is naturally self sacrificing, pretty much by the nature of their order...presuming that Kal is an exemplar of a Windrunner. But, to be honest, a lot of the more 'honourspren' KR seem to have an element of self-sacrifice in-built as part of their ideals.

I think an important part has to do with bodies, which so far as I know represent the physical realm manifestation of a thing. A dead person is separated from their body, their physical aspect, their tie to it is severed, and as such they are indeed 'two realm entities.' Because they are severed, a dead person is not bound to their body and can leave it. A worldhopper has a body, but it is temporarily transferred from the physical realm, their tie to that realm isn't severed and should they re-enter the physical their body can and will manifest itself. SA spoilers So yeah, links to the physical are the key part here. I suspect Kel will have managed to get his body back by using hemalurgy to 're-link' his cog/spir aspects to a physical body.

Hey Max. I'd suspect it works a lot like Stormlight healing but works on people who are not Radiants. It is noted that this is an enhancement of the body's natural healing and not healing action of the Light itself. As such, I'd suspect it to be equal to or exceed the possibilities granted by stormlight healing. My main evidence here is the (now noncanon but still valid?) Old final WoR scene with Szeth. I would guess it is guided by some element of the cognitive aspect of the person being healed. I would suspect that this means that someone else could heal Kaladin's scars, if they were aiming to, but not if they were merely trying to heal him. Finally, I'd guess that the more stormlight used the more complete the recovery, but there would probably be some plateau where the patient would need to rest and recover.

Maybe regarding Trell. It would seem to me that Trell could well be a shard. Especially given that his religion seemed to have a focus on him being an active part of it. Like, Sazed notes that apparently the Nelarzan (?) Beliefs were hard to discount because so much of them boiled down to "ask Trell and he'll answer". Don't get me wrong, it could easily have been hijacked.

I really dislike the Stoneward/Stone Shaman connection theory. If nothing else, it would seem to run contrary to what the Stonewards are. They are the "stand you ground right or wrong" sort of guys and girls. It would seem to me that they wouldn't fake participation, they'd just ignore the order to do so. To clarify, it isn't non participation that I have an issue with, it is the way they allegedly did it. But on a side note, didn't something make its way into the history books? Isn't that what we are talking about by referencing Words of Radiance (the in world)? So yeah. The theory is possible. But I don't like it, and I don't consider it as likely as another order being the traitor.

I like this line of questioning. However, the key thing about this, for me, is to realise that Hoid is a character in the Stormlight Archive. He isn't an easter egg. Hoid cares about meddling with Rayse, who he actively dislikes, in a way he didn't seem nearly as invested in as on Scadrial or Nalthis. I imagine that SA is supposed to be the first published world where we get a bit of an idea about who Hoid is, what he cares to do, and where he comes from. Plus for whatever reason Roshar seems important to him. He features in the mythology, he was involved in the Ghostbloods, he features in the epigraphs, he's an active influence on Shallan's past. I did find him a little curious on my first read, as I was one of those who read WoK before anything else. But to be honest, I can't really remember my thoughts at the time other than that he stood out.

With all due respect Max, I'd think it unlikely that all the other shardbearers would gank him. Realistically I don't think Dalinar would resist, but if he did it'd probably echo the situation we found in WoR with Sadeas being openly hostile to Dalinar but without them going to war. Sadeas might have a better case for his discontent but he'd fight rallying military support difficult. Especially because at that time Dalinar is still the strongest highprince, a full shardbearer, and a war legend unsullied by his loss at the Tower. But it is also undercut by the fact that Elhokar knows Dalinar is innocent, so it wouldn't come to blows.

He was at the time.

Hmmm. Maybe. Something important so far as I can concerned is that Ati sees ruin as part of creation. It is probably significant that despite all he could have or may have done, he chose to create something (albeit with a mind to destroy it later). I think this is what remains of Ati influencing the shardic intent.

Okay. So I got this. Ladies and gentlemen (Kandra and koloss too) I present to you the Keep Crushers! First in line, Charles Slickstone repping AatiumFsteel. This is going to be my real killshotter as since we can't outlast Kel there must be someone who can potentially kill him whilst burning. Charles is our man for this, his orders are to go fast and hard and kill as quickly as he can. Reasonably, Charles might take this alone, provided Kel doesn't sneak up and hit him first as he isn't expecting a non-mistborn to be burning atium and doesn't know of non-Terris who can use feruchemy. Finally mistborn are loathe to ingest atium unless they have to as it ruins it and with five minutes worth I doubt Kel will risk wasting so much. Worst case, I don't know how much superspeed three days buys, but there's a good chance it is enough to kill Kel before he knows what's up. Charles will have a good amount of non-metal blades on hand to make his work easier on his bones. Second seer will be Cyrus Begglesby with AatiumFpewter. I hate to split my limited atium, but given how quickly speed runs out and the relatively fragility of steelrunners I need a backup. I'd have loved someone to be atium/steel allomancy to feel safe, but then I'd like Margot Robbie to be my girlfriend. Both are about as likely. In any case Cyrus is going to store strength like crazy and then tap it in sufficient quantity that he will be stronger than Kel but not too unwieldy. I'd make him a grappler. The main advantage here is that if he can lay hands on Kel he's going to tap as much strength as he can and pin Kel down and let the others go to murdertown. Or just crush him to death right there and then. I reckon Cyrus knows the limits of his power better than I. Burning atium makes this a real possibility, and means that even if Kel burns too it's still easily possible. Next we have the golden twins Nex and Twixt both with APewterFgold. These guys are the real tanks and should be able to go toe-to-toe with Kel. Even with atium it'll take him some time to go through them and without it he's going nowhere fast. Nex will be going two handed spear and Twixt will be rocking the shield and axe combo. Both will have some knives. I don't expect the twins to decide the fight, and they're not a tricky or smart move, but they are a perfect middle line for taking out a weakened Kel or slowing him down. Backing them up will be the muscles from fadrex city himself Riordan Decroix with ASteelFpewter. Every good team needs some coinshots, especially in TFE era luthadel, and the increased mass of pewter means if it comes to pushing Ridi will likely outdo Kel. Ri mainly will serve as a ranged backup to cover the others, but he should prove a not-so-squishy surprise should Kel close to CQC. I'd give him an axe and some vin-style trick arrows with pull away backs. I'd also have him have a coin in his mouth (cheers Zane). Second coinshot plus will be Luragel Desmartes with Feruchemical zinc as a bonus. Someone needs to plan on the fly and Feruchemical zinc adds the brainpower to make it matter. Luragel will make sure the team is positioned the best in the leadup to Kel and most importantly will play as the tactical mind of the group. Being a coinshot he's not going to be easy to take out at a range and being Feruchemical zinc he might just surprise Kel with something nasty. I don't expect Kel to make it to the coinshot line. If he's burning atium he's likely running low by now, likely wounded, if he's not he's almost certainly dead. But as further interference... The obligatory crasher will be Shogg Sepiel. Shogg will act alongside Riordan to clear the air and maintain missile supremacy. Kel's biggest assets are iron and steel and we want to take them from him. We've got two big heavy weights for that and Shogg will be the big thrower here. He'll have plenty of coins and such and it'd be great if Kel got into a Pushing match with him. Finally Rune Halatar brings up the rear in terms of mention, but never in our hearts. As a coppercloud/bloodmaker (AcopperFgold). Rune will be lugging as much armour as he cares to and will function to keep the extent of the teams gifts as limited as possible for as long as possible. If Kel gets to him gold makes him more robust and he would be best suited with axe and shield in CC but will also have a bow with appropriately non-metal heads. General Strategy Thoughts. The team has no emotional allomancy or tineye, it's a brutal game and that's that. Realistically speaking Kel is a master thief and has likely broken into countless places with tineyes on payroll. One more here isn't going to help, and the team isn't going to be spread out anyway. Plus more tin is less potential murder, that's science. I weighed up the smoker role, but end of the day I think that the surprise is worth a little less killing potential. A seeker on board is pointless as Kel will have copper and our guys won't have the juice to break a coppercloud. Emotional allomancy doesn't work on mistborn burning copper, and realistically there's no reason why Kel wouldn't be. Kel doesn't know about atium mistings, nor that our guys are twinborn, we're going to use and abuse this. The Game Itself The team is going to clear a large room of metal objects and bracings and camp there with the Lord. Best part of the plan is that Kel has to come to us. We want room to fight, but no excess metals and not too much room for Kel to maneuvre. Even with precautions he's very mobile. As soon as he appears the atium users go for it. No saving atium for later. If Kel shoots at us he'll be neatralised by Riordan and Shogg, with luck he won't be expecting it and get caught flat footed but either way he's got two atium burners coming in fast. Good odds he dies here with Charles cutting him to pieces but presuming he burns atium the two should still give him a run for it. If they fight and exhaust atium they're to drop back and team up with the twins with the later two at point. Past here we want to retreat whith a priority on the rear four falling back to a second room devoid of metal. Such a room would ideally have a tower shield and narrow doorway for Riordan to block and hold. Even with an atium edge Kel can't know our two thugs are also blood makers so there's a good chance he'll have to "kill" them more than once. They are to fight defensively. With our preperations it is going to be a CQC slugfest and that isn't Kel's strength. Charles will retreat to Rune to store what speed he can if he runs out. The Asteels of the Crushers are going to blow anything he throws our way away and there's nothing for him to grab on our side. That's it really. Kel struggled against half a dozen hazekillers. He will have to fight for every inch and he's not exactly a pro at that. To win he needs Atium and he needs to get through our front two lines. If he gets wounded too badly, he loses. If he doesn't burn atium early, he loses. Best case for Kel is that he burns atium and murders his way through my lines in less than the time gap between my guys running out and his atium running out or has enough juice left to finish it. My team is to have a number of fake atium nuggets on hand and will periodically throw them to each other to create the illusion of plenty, this will ideally make Kelsier keep burning atium under the fear of the Crushers burning when he's not and getting a killshot. That's the plan then. Keep Crushin'