Savanorn

Hey oversleep You're allowed to disagree, although I'd like to see you rationale sooner or later. you're one of the hardest working Sharders I've seen so I might just have missed something. As for the rest, I think I've actually read those threads before. But thanks for the references.

Wow. This has never happened to me before. That's pretty graceful. Thank you?

To clarify something, part of my point is that greater strength manifests as just that. Getting stronger can ans doea make an allomancer more precise, but it can simply make them more powerful. Savantism has been referred to as a qualitative and quantitative difference. So with savantism, you get stronger, but that's not the (only) reason you get more precise. You get more precise because using so much of a metal has changed you and made you better able to use that metal. As for Elend, we see how his power works; he is capable of soothing more people at any given time. When he pushes on things that would take less powerful allomancers duralumin they move. Rather importantly, I don't think he's ever more precise than Vin despite being vastly stronger and we have PoV chapters and, unless you can provide quotes, we never see his powers working the way you seem to think they would. Like... we don't see him see a coin as three or four different lines when he flies further on them. He doesn't mention pushing on multiple lines on the same object. As for quotes, for force and anchors, I posted them in the thread I made, but try Vin's earliest days. When she's jumping the luthadel wall with Kelsier, the blue line gets steadily thinner and she decelerates as she gets further away, before she finally stops. This implies a thiner line is, at some point, less capable of generating force. Realise I'm assuming the key factor here is line width. But realise that with the mechanics of Pushing strength is usually less important than weight (it is, afterall, why Kelsier noted Vin's strength and the Inquisitor didn't expect Elend's, there's not naturally a lot of variance according to Kel) and occaisons where this is important are rare. Most Coinshots tend to jump from anchor to anchor to maximise speed or agility.

Hey Spool, I made a topic on this, but suffice it to say I disagree with the bolded part, I believe it does increase precision (all else being equal) but a stronger allomancer can simply generate more force in a given moment. Elend is the best example of this, as you note, as he's notably a bit clumsy with the use of his powers, but is also notably very powerful in terms of raw power. Vin also is a fairly good example, as she can draw a lot more from her metals than people expect. Also, as near as I can tell, what you are saying in the final part ought to be impossible. Like, by getting stronger you could affect things you couldn't before, or you can effect those things you could before more strongly, but subdiving a target ought to result in several smaller target, which would mean they were weaker for Pull/Pushing.

Hi all, so this is a spin-off of the Nicrosil Feruchemy and the Bands topic. But once I got writing and thinking I decided to flesh it out. I intend to flesh this out even more, so if you see me edit stuff in, be not surprised. In this thread I examine how allomantic power in the context of steelpushing is majorly dependent on two things; weight and allomantic power. Further, I give insight into the nature of power and sensitivity. Weight determines who moves, as well as how much, and allomantic strength is almost a measure of how much this rule can be violated; it also provides an extra amount of power in addition to one's weight, but it also seems to determine sensitivity. Steelpushing: Weights and Anchors Now, we all ought to know that weight is vital in steelpushing; it is weight manipulation that makes a lot of Wax's cooler feats possible and we see examples in pretty much every book. However, it isn't just about the weight of the allomancer, but the size or weight of the anchor as well. Now, if you're short on time, suffice it to say that a heavy anchor that's high in metal is better as it allows for a longer push. Now, we see this as early as chapter 1, page 32 of the Alloy of Law where Wax notes, whilst cruising the city, This also states more metal is better, which is also implied on chapter 1, page 34, of the Alloy of Law. It is worth noting that this again notes it may not just be weight, but metal mass that is particularly important for an anchor. As we know, larger anchors have thicker lines. As one approaches a metal the line becomes brighter, and as one leaves it becomes fainter. The thicker the line, the more enduring the anchor the object tends to be. It is notable that Kelsier also uses an ingot to train Vin in jumping the city wall of Luthadel, in The Final Empire chapter 8 page 147, This would seem unnecessary if a mere coin was enough. Indeed, So, weight determines who moves, and quality of anchor determines how far one can move, by determining the time extent of the push. A bigger, more metallic anchor is better and will allow longer sustained motion whilst a smaller anchor allows shorter flight. Allomantic Strength and Pushing We're introduced to the notion of allomantic strength early on with Vin, who is abnormal in her high strength. But before we compare between people, it helps to consider burn rates with a single person. Take Vin. She is capable of burning her metal and extracting a given amount of power. She may also flare it; flaring a metal allows her to draw more strength from her metal, but at the cost of a faster rate of consumption. So, all else equal, Vin is capable of drawing more strength from her metals at a cost of reduced burntime. Now take Kelsier and Vin. Both can burn the same metal, say steel, but they have different burn rates. This burn rate is a result of spiritual DNA and the more allomantic sDNA, the faster the burn, and consequently the more power at any given time. It is explicit as per WoB (thanks and full credit to Yata) that a stronger allomancer is one who burns their metals faster. But what does 'more powerful' mean? What is greater allomantic strength? Essentially, this means stronger (more force) pushes and pulls from a given anchor, as well as obvious consequences for the other metals. We see this in The Final Empire, chapter 9, page 174 and Kelsier comments on it on page 182. Particularly relevant is that Kelsier is bigger than Vin, and he does end up winning, but he still feels it -more than he otherwise should. Strength allows a degree of freedom. This is a relatively slight difference, it's less conclusive than we'd like but it is useful for demonstrating the point, so let's go with another more drastic example. We further see this with Elend in Hero of Ages, chapter 3, page 32. So right here we see that that Elend only stumbles -he's not thrown away- and the Inquisitor is tossed away. Essentially, this demonstrates that allomantic strength not only allows one to effect someone else more than it should, but in the case of a Pushing match it allows the stronger party to suffer less damage. It violates the weight determines what moves (and how much) rule. Or more accurately, the greater the difference in strength, the less the difference in weight matters. But What About Sensitivity In the interests of being fair, I've heard this before, most recently by SpoolofWhool but in the interests of being honest, I'd also noted this myself. Basically, it is my thoughts that a stronger allomancer isn't just stronger, but is also more sensitive. This is implied with Vin's training with Marsh (she's not just strong, but hemalurgically gifted) where she can already feel the direction of the metals burn. But there's more, there's a scene in Shadows of Self, chapter 20, page 308 where Wax is alone in the dark with TenSoon and by flaring his metals he can only just see the lines. Better though, in the Bands of Mourning, page 258, Wax notes (of Wayne's new identity-less metalmind) In Conclusion (or TLDR) Weight of anchors matters for push length, and power in some cases. Greater strength of a allomancer allows more Pushing force given the same anchor. Greater strength alos seems to grant greater sensitivity. Still to come; Cleanup, Anchor quality, Savantism, Nicrosil and stored allomancy, Soul interference and allomantic power, Wax and Vin at LORD RULER (+) power. And more!

What sort of scale are we talking? Unrestricted access? Misting level? Because in Era 1 I'd almost have to go with feruchemy, given how rare and useful it is. Definitely not Hemalurgy. In Era 2, I'd be pretty likely to go hemalurgy. Basically because the powers are better, being able to mix feruchemy and allomancy, and there's no Ruin to mess with you. On Earth feruchemy would seem the better choice most of the time, especially with access to all the rare and wonderful metals, but I'd probably go for allomancy.

Haha yep. Also I haven't really played Coop. I wouldn't mind, but most of my friends play Rome2 or Warhammer Total War. Rome2 is fun, but I don't like the era as much and Warhammer is less about skill and position and more about unit stats.

I am a guy who fights allomancers now? That seems a demotion...

Oh Harmony yes. Closer to 300 here. I'm playing Otomo right now and the early matchlocks are so fine, especially with upgraded accuracy. Plus early Christianity, Nanban trade boats and ability to lock down the foreign trade nodes is so fine. I'm having more fun now than as Shimazu or Chosokabe. This might be the first campaign I've actually enjoyed sea battles. I've had turns on Hard where I'd earn 8k even with armies in the field and navies in the sea. I've found acquiring horses is necessary though, especially early, as archers outrange you, but a few tabs of yari or even light horse take the sting out of that. I don't know if there is much more satisfying than watching a bunch of samurai charge your ranked fire matchlocks only to be cut to pieces and route within spitting distance of your men. Actually there was one. Where I had a stronghold full of matchlock ashigaru andwas attacked by a stack and a half of Amako with a pile of ashigaru and samurai. I traded off my horse early to maim their archers and let the rest charge the walls piecemeal. None made it to the top without breaking. This said I kinda feel like it is cheating to play as the western Daimyo, they are too easy to make secure against aggression in Realm Divide and so close to all the trade nodes than you can almost guarantee an eventually monopoly. But that sounds like so much fun. I can't imagine a stronger alliance than Shimazu/Otomo. You must wreck all comers.

I've been playing a heap of Shogun 2:total war and will be playing Dishonoured in the lead up to D2.

Wow. I was thinking only like 200. Bit now that we have a second possible awakenere...Darn. I don't want to double up on character backgrounds. I'll think about another option. For future ref, quote me to get my attention.

To set the record straight; at least two of these are false. The rule of thumb and the cat got your tongue. If the look up something like "why do we say..." you'll probably get a much better written and better researched response but suffice it to say that "cat got your tongue" is just playful terminology and the rule of thumb thing has been a false myth for, maybe, hundreds of years but that it is better understood to be a rough measure as opposed to a calculated or plannned maneuvre. As for the nature of what you were saying, I totally recommend Lies of Locke Lamora. It is well done and has some very in depth character interactions. As for this thread..eh...I don't like The Dresden Files. Mainly because I don't like Harry Dresden. To me, he comes off as a pretty generic fantasy hero who's main flaws are just that he's such a swell guy and since the Dresden Files are so main character driven, there's little appeal to me.

I watched Luke Cage and would recommend it. I'm watching Mr. Robot right now. It is...okay. but there's a self awareness and predictability to it that I honestly dislike. I feel like it is one of those shows that isn't clever enough for me to like, nor are the characters likeable enough for me to be emotionally invested. Kinda like Breaking Bad.

Hmm. Hmmm. There are a few of these similarities that jump out on rerear. I've found that Elend becomming king abd learning to rule mirrored Dalinar's restoration of faith in himself. Vin has a similar "I will protect those who can't protect themselves" moment like Kaladin. There's a few more.

Oh that's a good argument.

Ah awesome. Making sure I didn't kust spoil the ending. I think there's WoB that it wouldn't do anything more than normally consuming it. I think duralumin works by burning all of the metal at once, giving a big spike of investiture... but I thing lerasium is really defined by how much you burn, not how quickly, so you'd still end up the same strength. Although there is the issue that actually burning lerasium might have a different effect we don't know if one is already an allomancer. Also this.

Agree here. I think the issue is that it is described as mental speed and the obvious jump is to bulletime. Especially because in MB we hardly ever see feruchemists tap mental speed. Thia sais, I'm kind of surprised Brandon went with "mental speed" and not just "intelligence" or something more vague. But I guess the issue there is, maybe, that "mental speed" is more easily described; it is more of a technical description. Like you could imagine someone storing a little mental speed every day like Wax stores weight, say a tenth, leaving them a little "slow" and then tapping it in short bursts to be several times more effective -turning them into Sherlock as you said. It is a little harder to imagine tapping and storing intellect. At least for me. Even though that's a more accurate term.

Hmmm. I'd say it would be. Not in every case, but it'd have its place. It is kind of like using duralumin pewter or steel in a fight. Yes, you're going to burn it all out, but doing this allows for nore possibilities than regular burns and flares alone. As for atium V atium specifically, I'd say duralumin/atium might give you a better edge than atium alone. At a guess I'd say it might allow you to see a little further or predict the enemy atium user. But there might be WoB on this I'm not aware of.

Imagine the potential of being a fZincaZinc on modern earth <3

No problems CL. Out of curiosity have you read all of Mistborn?

We actually know this. Elend did this fighting Marsh at the end of HoA. I'm pretty sure duralumi/atium lets you see further ahead to the consequences of your actions. So, more or less, Elend knew that if Marsh killed him Vin would kill Ruin and Sazed would save the world.

Oh yes. Feruchemical steel (compounding more so) is pretty much considered the only really broken power in MMB. I actually think there's a bit of overlap here, as occurs with a few feruchemical powers. Realistically though I think mental speed is more about...intelligence; processing information quickly and accurately. It is about looking at a situation and being able to find the solution faster. Physical speed can allow you to do more in the same amount of time, but it doesn't actually make you better at doing it. So if someone was to walk into the room and throw a punch at you, physical speed would let you dodge, counter and escape all at once but mental speed might let you realize they were off balance on their left side so a quick push would send them tumbling. Or some such

Why hallo again VT. I'd guess it was one of those two you named really. Unless I'm mistaken we don't actually know where either shard put their shardpool and the only other shard, Odium, is on Braize so far as I know.

I don't know if I like this. Definitely props to VT for the theory...but I think it is simpler. The way I see it...Aona and Skai aren't so important, it is more important that both their shards ( and matching Intents) are complementary and physical. Dominion and Devotion apply to places and things, and depend to a degree on the person, the culture and the society. This is very cognitive heavy as opposed to concepts like Ruin or Hatred. Further, just at a guess, without a Vessel or Cognitive Shadow to take up the shard, it makes sense for the power to gravitate to the Cognitive Realm. It makes sense then that there is one single power that has many manifestations. As opposed to several variants on a theme or...proprietary arts. Edit: I should clarify, it is because Aona and Skai don't really get to decide what their power does. Dominion and Devotion interact, on Sel, and the Dor is what results.

I'm curious. How likely do you think it is that Autonomy would oppose Harmony? The way I see it there should be little conflict, Harmony is pretty opposed to intervention and Autonomy should be fine with that. I could get Autonomy acting against Ruin, Dominion, Odium or even Endowment... but yeah.