Kasimir

Yeah, replied to you but also trying to work out aloud if the argument for E!Stick makes sense, given: A. She's in my pool and I'm trying to decide if I'm comfortable staying on Shqueeves, and B. Conq is very convinced of this (this is the argument which, apparently, tipped the balance away from E!Mat, which he has been on for most of this cycle!) and I'm not as sold on it as he is, so I'm trying to work out what I think. He could very well be right, so it's worth thinking through and making my own assessment.

Dunno though, isn't it fairly obvious? If you, Illwei, and Xino are all Evil together, there is no world in which Xino dies, period, barring some major gambit. I'm okay bracketing gambit-world and not looking at it immediately. The only E!you world that possibly makes sense entails E!you/E!Xino/V!Illwei and then there is no logical reason for Xino to vote on you in that world unless the hope was to split the vote, and then that doesn't matter because you went back to Xino at the last minute. This doesn't make sense to me. I'm not going to relook this again (ok maybe later) but I grit my teeth and did a vote progression analysis yesterday in the thread: This is the state of the votes right before Xino votes. It's very, very early in the cycle - there's little reason to expect Xino was being protective of Stick, and you and TUN were tied. Araris doesn't vote Stick with me until much later in the cycle (okay, again, not checking right now, but based off my past analysis, I have three vote change-boxes between Xino voting on Wiz and Araris subsequently joining me on Stick. That's a significant amount of voting movement between the two votes. I don't buy it.) Ah, soddit, let me do it. Did we read the same cycle? Because: This post is the only pressure Stick faces on p1. Stick gets queries, sure, but no expressions of suspicion at all. Attention is on Wiz and TUN. Stick's only two posts are not responses to challenge but commentary without pressure: I don't understand where this argument is emerging from. Then, Xino votes Wiz around five hours after rollover. That's incredibly early to start being reasonably protective of teammates. I feel like the lynchpin of this argument hinges on the Wiz vote being protective of Stick - agree that the Araris kill would be possible from Stick, not sure the rest decisively points to Stick so much as constructs a narrative for E!Stick. Anyway, I likely cannot be back before rollover, so I will need to do some thinking. My current orange list: <Shqueeves, Silho, Stick, JNV> My main problem is Stick and JNV fit in the same bracket, but I'm quite stuck about which I'd rather vote for. Could reintroduce Symph, I suppose. I'm currently on Shqueeves - pool issue, and just not fully fond of this post, though I'm not very sure why: Probably need to make a better decision on where to likely-final-vote.

The thing is, as far as I can tell, in your QF Elim doc, Shining has mentioned wanting to change his Elim playstyle, and regretted going with the play he did in the QF, so I would not expect E!Shining to be playing consistently with that anyway. I do see some similarities in the vote stability issue so that's making me wonder about E!Shining. That, and again, my thoughts on how likely it is the Xino train was entirely pure. It could be, but coupled with my questions about Shining, it's one avenue I'm considering. FWIW: Ok. Back to V on Illwei than tentative V. Part of me says that in this scenario, Illwei would've put away vote manip when it was clear that Xino can't be saved, part of me thinks that an extra Turn of life for the Coinshot isn't worth losing two Elims over, especially if it is a three person team. (To be clear, this is true because Elim vote manip only redirects a vote to be on the same train as you. So in that light, it is fairly suicidal to have 2/3 of a train being Elim because once Xino flips, 2/3 of the team goes down.) But I also struggle to see Illwei agreeing that the CW should be on Mat, because that is still a very ? play from Xino, and they would need coordination to save Xino. Going JNV, Shqueeves. Does moving look too placatory though? We commonly remark on Elim oversensitivity to challenge as well, though I will agree that Silho could've just voted someone like Shqueeves with little challenge, but voting elsewhere with no reason (given the first callout) just looks bad. Since ties don't kill, and Xino could plausibly have self-pressed, I'm wondering if the calculus at that time is that Xino wasn't in that much danger. My main issue with JNV and the reason for withdrawing is that we're maybe 3/4 into the cycle, and: The one thing I do not see in that long block of text is a vote, or even any awareness at all that they're being voted on. I'm a bit concerned by that nonchalance, and sort of leaning Village on it. I guess they could (similar to Silho) feel a lot more blase about leading the votes because they can tie the votes and they might very well have vote manip, but even so. The fact there's just no reaction to or even acknowledgement of the votes is ??? to me, and making me hesitate on JNV. ?

Think there's a misunderstanding here I'm saying I V read Mat but this is the one place that I don't understand: which is that if Mat is V, why does E!Xino vote V!Mat, knowing V!Mat is on at EoD and has just changed his vote? Isn't that seppuku? V!Mat would obviously self-pres, and if Mat self-preses, the only place to vote is on Xino. So Xino doesn't want to aggravate Mat - he wants Mat to stay voting on me. Or even better, for Mat to vote with him, which is where the me vote makes sense. In that light, it seems illogical to vote V!Mat and does make me wonder if the vote is performative. So if you are on E!Mat tinfoil, this is the one place I'd sort of be sympathetic towards it. But I still feel like the kill meta point is more decisively against E!Mat. I do feel that the fact Xino did an oops and changed his vote within the post is suggestive of panic, so maybe he didn't think through the considerations properly. IDK. My issue with Silho is basically that he doesn't do aggressive tonal "Don't kill me" - C5 of the QF, he was basically "oh okay I get it" and so pinged fairly genuine. He's definitely less aggressively giving reads and suspicions this time, though. Don't make me swear on the Shard Edited to add: In both senses of the word...

This should read Elim. I'm tired. At this juncture, despite my multiple oranges, I am currently leaning towards going for Silho. Barring any further thoughts, I don't know if I fully believe that the Xino train is pure. Edited to add: Ok, but let's say E!Silho. Do you drop a distancing vote on your Coinshot teammate of all teammates though? What could possess you to do something so kayana as that? Lack of awareness of how volatile D1 can be?

The short answer: GMing experience. The less cheeky answer: 20-25% is the normal proportion for an Elim team. Ordinarily, if Xino were a full Coinshot, I'd lean 'team of three', maybe two depending on balance considerations. But Xino gets a oneshot kill and that's it, so I don't really know it changes things all that much. There were no other kills last night and protects should've been written up. I'd expect the Elims to kill off the bat if they had any other oneshots, so it was probably just Xino. I'm aware some people at Night (CBA to reread not sorry) are leaning smaller than that, but I don't think so. It's too narrow a margin and a oneshot isn't strong enough to justify a team of two. I'll revise my assessment if it turns out like half this game has protection powers, but in the absence of that, based on the roles we know so far, 3-4 in total, lean three. Does E!Stick actually not know the vote count. I feel like E!Stick should be more aware of the vote count given that cycle endangered at least Xino. Why must you make me doubt my doubt of you >> I would agree/emphasise mild in that Xino was on afterwards so clearly could have retracted if necessary, but circumstantially, does not feel like a good vote if E!Wiz, no. Ok, but how so? Those powers are one-shot as well, meaning that the Elims would have had to decide whether it was worth employing or not. If we speculate team of three or four, how many vote manip powers are you postulating? I think the most Ash can give them is two - in a game of this size, vote manip accelerates the end quite a bit, if they save it up. Again, I accept it's weaker because it's a oneshot, but. And ngl but if you save Xino by burning 2-3 vote manips, Xino does make the extra kill but more or less gets murdered the next day. Don't forget this is the only vote manip blessing: Saving Private Xino becomes Killing The Elim Team. Using more than one vote manip risks unnecessary exposure. I wouldn't consider it a fair trade at all - it's team seppuku, and bloody expensive, even for an extra kill. The end train was five votes. If you suppose one of Illwei and Mat is Evil, Xino voting on one of the side trains gets you 3-4 (the Villager in <Illwei, Mat> likely votes on the Xino train given concerted movement with Xino and someone else in a game without PMs.) To tie or kill someone else, the Villager in <Illwei, Mat> needs vote manip. Then you can get 4-3. Or I suppose, the main extant side-trains: if one of <me, JNV, Stick> had and used vote manip, then as long as Xino peels off Mat or Illwei (assuming V!Mat, V!Illwei in this case), then you get 4-3. FWIW may or may not have been on but cannot recall. I would've just had it in a tab and forgotten about it. I'd basically checked out of the game after my last post and was preoccupied with other things. To be charitable to JNV, you voting Araris for being overexplainy but also @ing him for not explaining his vote is basically blowing hot and cold at the same time. You could say you wanted a specific sort of explanation from him and felt the other sort was too much, but ehhh. I will say my gut regards you more favourably than JNV right now, but that's really not very much since I shouldn't be playing by raw gut but lolwhocares.

This is actually surprising to me, because you're one of the remaining few players I could definitively see pulling off an early Araris kill :eyes: I don't understand where the Wiz vote is here, and I don't bloody know if I want to go and look at it I don't want to I don't want to but it's bugging me. The correct option for E!you is Illwei at some point anyway because she will re-eval, thank you. E!you more or less secures thread control sans Illwei - Araris doesn't play aggressive thread control though I think he's doing that more this game, but would have less without Illwei to bounce off. Ah ffs. Unremarkable up to this point. Silho's naked vote on xino - poke vote? Potential distancing? Check - E!Silho tends to have low engagement, vote stability. Conq votes TUN for tying the votes and ties the votes in the process. Enough said. Xino shows up to vote Wiz. Mentions slight sus of TUN but doesn't go deeper and sort of waters it down - potential distancing? Dunno. TUN. Side-note: very fractional Village points to Mat off this as well. I know Mat disagrees with this, but I dgaf - I don't consider it too likely for Xino to stack onto a teammate's vote. And he's not the kind of metamesser I'd be concerned is playing into this. This ties Wiz, Mat, and TUN. So he kind of has a bit of a slight sus of TUN: Half takes it back, and then votes on another train other than TUN, further diluting the votes and making the tie even more stable. Slight ??? of TUN here from Xino's attitude - I don't consider it as damning as vote dilution but I think it's definitely a bit more friendly to TUN than I'd expect off his comments. TUN for now I guess I can change it or roll a die for it later on. TUN unvotes. It's a tie between TUN and Wiz. Okay, you know what, TUN, sorry TUN. Struggling to see E!TUN take a vote back and then just not do anything when he's on the chopping block or in danger of it, given vote volatility. Illwei goes for Araris: This returns Wiz to being the lead train. Guess TUN would be comfortable with doing so if it were a TUN-Illwei team. But that feels a bit too paranoid right now. Araris then swaps to Stick: Which ties off Stick and Wiz. Stick then votes Araris for tonal reasons, so three-way tie. Shqueeves votes for Conq. Presumably has vote fabrication in mind. The key movement there IMO is Wiz hopping to Araris, as Stick points out, putting a Villager in the lead. This breaks a three-way Wiz-Stick-Araris tie. I move off Stick and go onto Mat, so it becomes just Wiz in contention with Araris. Shqueeves then retracts from Conq. I don't know - I feel like E!Shqueeves could still leave the vote there because Conq wasn't in danger of death. But retracting quickly to a challenge from Araris and Stick after having defended the necessity of the vote feels odd. Potential E!sensitivity? Note that Xino recognises there are two votes on Stick but doesn't recognise Araris is on Stick. Not confident of making a read off this. @Conquestor - Why still TUN at that point, if you were conditionally willing to think Stick was Evil? Mat joins the Xino train. I would argue that given vote volatility, it would be very bold for E!Mat to stick a vote on Xino like that, especially as Illwei pointed out, Xino is a oneshot Coinshot. So yes, sigh, all aboard Team V!Mat train, choo choo. I could maybe see the JNV vote as being a bit odd. Because if you're an Elim, it's late in the cycle, and you're mildly worried about Xino and volatility, then the best place to go is to pad a side-train and bring it into contention. Illwei goes off Araris and onto Mat because Mat jumping on Wiz. Not sure if Illwei read or if something fishy here - Mat said he was trying to bait jump-ons and it didn't work. Mild ? at this. We now have a four-way tie. Will say that this is moving off a Villager and it feels a bit off for E!Illwei to do this - could leave the padding vote to keep Xino safe without reproach. So that's V-ish to me, in a very backward sort of way. I think it's fair to assume Xino's role is valuable enough they'd like to try not to lose Xino in the first night. (Unless this is a deliberate bus which I really don't want to think about now, because who would bus the Coinshot to gain trust, amirite >> Paranoia sod off.) I can sort of see Wiz withdrawing off Araris in both lights, here. Xino willing to park on Wiz makes me think unlikely distancing. At the same time, feel Wiz could also have left the vote without reproach. Doesn't seem like Wiz was particularly challenged over the vote, either. Think the side-train point is weaker here because there are already four side-trains at this point, though Wiz's willingness to not vote at all is maybe good. Yay overthinking on scant evidence! Illwei does in fact not read Mat's point and okay fine I have more respect for E!Illwei than to assume it was deliberate, so she probably missed it. Removes Mat from contention, so Stick and Xino are in the lead. Again, feels a bit more risk than reward though I presume Illwei will vote elsewhere later but I don't actually know right now because it's the first time I'm forcing myself to read this. Araris goes onto Xino and retracts off Stick. (!!!!) At 1028hrs, Conq unvotes TUN and votes Xino to secure the lynch. I guess that's okay, but one thing going off in my head is: save or bus? If Xino's role is that valuable, why is there no save? Was this the point at which there was a committed bus? I don't feel particularly strongly or badly I guess. I could see E!Conq stacking up elsewhere, but ehh. Also can see this being the bus point. Returning to this subsequently - I hesitate to say bus. It feels like a really momentous decision if Conq can't be on for EoD, given volatility. Leaving a fourth vote on TUN feels kind of irresponsible, and Xino would've been saveable potentially. Lean V on Conq? Illwei goes onto Shqueeves which is basically a side-train. Mat goes onto me. Also side-train. This is where there's apparently shenanigans where Xino's vote was on Mat, and then on me. Ok here's the thing. Here's the state of the votes when this happens: At 2 minutes to rollover, Xino votes Mat (I'm guessing, original post timestamp is 1058hrs.) Mat is a very curious pick to me. Illwei went off Mat and Mat would basically never vote Mat. Picking Mat is alienating one of the two players left. @Conquestor if you're smoking tinfoil, this is the one place I don't understand. You're a desperate dying Elim Coinshot at EoD. V!Mat would never self-vote, and has the potential to self-pres against you because he's actually on, sealing your death. Why for the love of all things holy do you pick Mat first? Presume that motivates the panic switch to me. At the one minute mark, both Illwei and Mat switch to Xino, so: Bus, or the team is just not on? I feel like the bus calculus is not actually too unreasonable: unless Illwei and Mat are teamed (unlikely, lean V on Mat), then Illwei has to know that Mat is active and on at EoD and able to vote elsewhere. I don't see any train that could practicably save Xino unless Illwei has vote manip - suppose they vote on Araris, Stick, or Mat. The Mat vote would rile Mat up, and probably V!Mat is smart enough to scent foul play if there's a coordinated vote on another train with Xino and someone else. 4-3 still gets Xino killed and voting late with Xino just looks sus as all hell. So IDK. Still okay with V reading Mat for kill meta, but I'm at a loss as to why Xino votes Mat. Note that I am not sure this deviates too far from distro wisdom, as it is a one-shot kill, and we already lost a one-shot protect as well. Not sure. Ah, soddit. Never again. This game is like a bad relationship complete with rebound. JNV, as Shining already has a vote for the moment. Currently do not have Mat or Wiz on the table. Unsure what to think of Illwei because of bus hypothesis. But ok let's try this: I am becoming a bit uncomfortable with how Wiz and TUN and Shqueeves feel like apathy clears to me in my current line of thinking. Apathy clears don't feel very robust when we're either looking at a bus or a lack of thread control, therefore no ability to resist. Coloured based on where my thoughts are at the moment. Agree with assessments Silho feels like a potential distancing vote gone awry - at the time Silho last posted, it was still possible for Xino to self-pres. The question IMO is where Xino's teammates might be hiding. Option A: Xino Train Where I'm at right now, it's down to Illwei or Silho. Lean Silho a bit more than Illwei. Option B: Side Train Stick, JNV, and myself. I'm not going to bother pushing for myself. Stick does have a vote on a confirmed Villager that more or less stayed there for - as JNV pointed out - a bit ?, which is both no reasoning and overexplaining at the same time. I guess between JNV and Stick, theoretically I'd go with Stick a bit over JNV because JNV actually pointed it out, but it feels like a cointoss in my head, and IDK but I don't really have any positive read on JNV whatsoever (or much of a read, simpliciter). Stick kind of feels like normal Stick but I can't remember playing E!Stick before, so ???. Anyway, it's early enough. So I guess my vote is staying on JNV for now. Option C: Non-Voters Symph - main reason I CBA over the pinch-hitter. Departure from how Symph played the QF, but Symph pointed out she's busy. No strong read on TUN, I guess. The vote withdrawal point stands but it was also early in the cycle. If I were forced to it, probably lean V at this juncture. Which means I'm left to look at <Turtle, Shqueeves.> Between Turtle and Shqueeves, I'd probably go Shqueeves, but it feels a bit like a derp clear. Turtle's N1 post doesn't really seem to say anything concrete - but not actually recognising that Araris's vote strongly clears him is bold for an Elim (hi, Silho ) but also feels at odds with the Elim strategy - there's no real need to do that if you're going to shoot Araris anyway. Am aware, dwai. I just want to make my position clear before I keep getting asked to justify changes or otherwise in my playstyle, which is: ok, lynch me if you need to get it out of your system, just do the vote analysis after that because I CBA. Ni su'cuyi, gar kyr'adyc, ni partayli, gar darasuum, Araris.

That's why they did it. Why give the Village new info? But it's actually also an interesting kill choice, because: 1. Mat 2. Exhibit A We know it's obviously a 3-4 player team, but I'm interested because Araris is not often an early kill, even I think when he does actually play well. CBA to actually go read the rest of D1/N1, so some things I picked off skimming: -Expecting a slightly unusual Elim team -> players like to leave Araris alive to soak suspicion because he's got that sort of trustable face (?) -> why not in this case? -Illwei's reads are not always widely shared. Illwei is not a very communicative player (nice that Mat considers it NAI for Illwei to vote without giving reasons but persistently expects everyone else to ) -> Elims intimidated by Illwei or unfamiliar with Illwei meta? -How globally shared is the Araris exoneration? (Nfc, CBA to check.) -Araris kill is still odd in that it's a different sort of low info kill doctrine -> low info kills tend to go quiet players. Potential sparing of newer players? Someone who manages to consider Araris a threat? It's not too useful but this is pointing me towards the different faces on the roster at the moment. The last time I recall (and I grant I don't play often enough to have a stronger recollection) an Araris early NK was in another Ash LG, and the Elim team was <Archer, JNV, Shadow, Illwei.> Both Archer and Illwei were dead by then so the kill decision was made by Shadow and JNV. I don't know JNV's kill doctrine by now, though I've GMed E!them once. But think Shadow made the kill call and it's telling. I had my vote on Mat because I wanted to put a bit of pressure on him and I wanted to keep the vote slate broad. I felt his suspicions were generic test balloon sorts, and did not like them, and had a bit of a gut ping over them. (I'll admit there's a slightly meta reason too, and that has to do with Mat's comments about his reads accuracy on me, to the point I have now decided to test them everytime it's clear he's got an intuitively incorrect read, whether it is E!Mat pushing, or V!Mat is just overconfident about his ability to read me. FWIW, I think it's clearly not a bi-conditional.) I left my vote on him until EoD because I didn't get back to the game. I've said it once and I'll say it again: RL things came up and I don't really have the motivation to stay engaged with this game anymore. That's also why I went MIA near the later part of C1. I CBA to ask for a pinch-hitter. As Mourinho says, if I say more, I am in big trouble, because people will try to make meta reads from this about me so all I'm saying is: no mood/motivation, did not gaf, still dngaf. I am refusing to blue this because I have principled grounds for disliking blue, y'all can take it or leave it or lynch me, I honestly couldn't care less. If I do get lynched, take a look within two groups after I flip: A. Who is pushing it? Elims likely to nudge it - possibly raw opportunism after Xino's vote. B. Who is deliberately standing clear? Elims know it is a bad train, and likely do not want to be deeply implicated, nor will they let the whole team go down the same hole. As I said, I dgaf but go relook at these two profiles after I flip. My current read on Mat is I am refusing to give a read on Mat because I cannot be neutral on Mat at this point in time, finding his arguments far too disingenuous. Ok, I'll be fair - I don't think a N1 Araris kill is in Mat's kill meta, even if Mat has learned a respect for Araris by now. Especially with Mat D2ing Araris because Araris was AFK - it just feels like an odd kill for E!Mat to gun for when there's a variety of targets, e.g. Illwei. Maybe not I guess since you could be off the table, but eehhhhh. There's also the bit where it's odd for Xino to want to self-pres on Mat before me. So yeah, no. Probably light V. Slight V lean on Wiz - doubt Xino would opportunistically park second vote on a teammate just like that on volatile D1. Slight V lean on Illwei but this is from skimming rather than deep engagement and I'd never not be careful about reading Illwei. Slightly more conflicted about whether to read you V or not. I see where Mat is coming from, but I also recalled from the MR that some of your mentioned Elim doctrine seems rather perpendicular to mine, so I am just not sure "This is too ballsy for an Elim" is where I'd go for you. No real opinion on anyone not mentioned. Let's be real, I could do vote progression analysis to actually be helpful and develop suspicions. I don't care to. So I'm not going to. That's just how it's going to be.

So, response to @Matrim's Dice No, I'm throwing out ideas to see who bites. Funny that you think you're the only player allowed to do that. I explicitly lampshaded this when I alluded to Drake and Maili - when there is an already-existing train, and I indicated my willingness to join it, and also separately indicated what bugged me about Conq and Wiz. I like train negotiations - I like knowing who is so invested in a train they want to persuade me onto it, and who votes for a player but isn't committed enough. I think that's handy info in light of one of three flips: mine (for anyone not me), the other player, Ok, but that's my definition of opportunism. Do you think my definition is correct? I am applying it to reading you in the QF. I sure as hell don't think my own vote is opportunistic, because I'm aware of what my vote willingness is motivated by. I also explicitly listed what I thought was weird about Conq and added what I thought was odd about Wiz after being asked by Stick. It's not my problem that I take time to frame my thoughts and posted somewhat after you. In light of that, you claiming in a one-liner that a non-vote is opportunistic is bold. So suddenly your definitions become the ones in operation? Because retaliation votes need to follow a vote. Suddenly motivation for the vote doesn't matter, just what the vote looks like? Ok, sure. But sure, y'all can go ahead and kill me if you want because I'm not really into this game for reasons I don't want to talk about. I think it's healthy for people to kill me when I'm disengaged from a game and to discover it is possible for me to be disengaged for RL reasons and also Village. I CBA to ask for a pinch-hitter.

If I'm making an orange vote, I'm not actually voting to kill someone, in which case the claim of opportunism is bold. Define interesting. Many things are interesting. Not all interesting things are relevant to the game. Is it a retaliation vote if Mat isn't voting on me yet? But no, I don't really care about weirdness. I'm going to go completely dgaf this game, due to what happened last game when I spent cycle after cycle rationalising why my gut had to be wrong rather than trying to understand or follow it. So partly gut, as I am getting a bit of a similar vibe to when Mat tried to park on Danex et al, (I will agree he's not parking on someone else, but it feels like a test balloon, and that's a flag for me for where some players are concerned, e.g. with Araris as well), partly my view on flipping rocks, and finally because I disagree on the usefulness of votes with questions But bah this also feels like V!Mat. ffs.

Why Wiz in particular? Who do you theorise I am saving by voting on Stick, Mat?

Sorry for the late response! I can't speak for any US based nibmeisters, but I have several Masuyama nibs (grinds on JoWo) and they're incredible. Expect a long queue with Masuyama though!

[OOC: Just newer players? ]

[OOC: Bah I'm too tired to RP this. I did give myself a cosmetic role that I'll be trying to fulfil as much as I can but I will give myself a break from this one for the moment. Basically, it's a really perfunctory answer from Wiz - Mat votes on Wiz, and Wiz sort of shows up, does a "I'm here!" and fades out. My sense of Wiz from playing I think...three (?) games with Wiz is that I wouldn't rule out the possibility it's a thoughtless V!Wiz thing. But something about it bugs me - it's like it's a low commitment post that's immediately responsive to a poke (zero commitment more than low commitment) and that displays a sensitivity to being voted on. And as I said with reference to Illwei and actually Araris in the last QF - yeah sometimes these are dead obvious things with likely responses, but you gotta flip the rock anyway and see what comes out. That's for why Wiz in particular. My ulterior/secondary motive is that I'm trying out a variant of Drake/Maili and seeing how it goes. I've mentioned this before, but am being a bit circumspect about what it entails. But I think it should be pretty obvious what I am doing/hoping to achieve!] Edited to add: [OOC: I can see it going both ways, which is why I'm fairly noncommittal about it. It's a provocative action, which TUN must know would attract negative attention. Given E!TUN's allergy to aggressive attention, I could give a fractional Village point for it. But it's diluted by the fact that I haven't seen E!TUN in action in forever, and I'm fairly certain TUN will have changed his playstyle by now, and relying on ancient playstyle memories gets you burned. I also recognise that TUN's calculus is somewhat perpendicular to mine, so I am not even sure projecting that way makes sense. So he gets a /shrug from me and the acknowledgement this is a rock that had to be flipped. (By which I mean that sometimes you just have to ask the question or pursue the line of inquiry, regardless of whether you think it is going to be fruitful. Because sometimes the asking is what matters. But okay, anyway.) Moving on.] Edited to add 2: It is curious that I have a better intuitive feeling about this post than I did for pretty much every single thing Mat said in the QF. Which is bloody loltastic because this is absolutely an early D1 post in every sense of the word and makes me wonder if I'm actually drunk. I await the return of Terribad Gut Feelings about Mat and the discovery that he is actually Evil .__. Edited to add 3: Missed the Xino vote. Don't hire me as a vote counter. I will bow my head in vote counter shame. Updated vote count. You're welcome, future Kas.

The rock garden swept, KeSaam sat on his porch and sipped at his tea. He'd last taken on a Contract to impersonate a minor noble, before his return to the Homeland. Sometimes, he thought, you could take on a role, hold it dearer to you than bone, and then it clung like dust, even months later, in the comforting tunnels of the Homeland. You could not shake it off you. Remnants of Tancred Malreaux clung to him. The Contract had gone on for months on end. KeSaam had not killed the man, but he had worn his bones, wielded that soft smile like a knife, and turned over the information to the noble family that had Contracted for him—Heron, KeSaam thought, that was the name—and left orphans in his wake. But you didn't wear a man's bones for months, and not expect to find some trace of him haunting you, as though he were a ghost. It wasn't the bitter-leaf tea that Tancred Malreaux had enjoyed. It was a brew made from lichens and moss. Tancred had loved his porch. And his study. You could hate what the Contracts made of them. Of the kandra. And you could still accept it was necessary. That duty demanded of you what you would rather not give. The accusations were beginning to trickle in. He pulled out a slate and began scribbling. MaTriim, by all reports, had been the first to begin the chain of accusation and counter-whisper. KeSaam set down the warm mug of tea on the porch, gently. NoVeel, then, had responded by accusing MaTriim. No one need be imprisoned, NoVeel had reasoned. KeSaam knew NoVeel's sort. [OOC: Currently /shrug on TUN and washing the difference.] That ConQuis and IllWei had reportedly seized on that was something worth noting. He scratched out further lines with his chalk. Accuracy, timing—those things mattered. Tancred Malreaux had known that. He had known about opportunity, and selecting the right moment. It did not particularly surprise KeSaam that IllWei had latched onto NoVeel's comment. It was common enough for kandra to lament the state of affairs that the council's decision had landed them in. [OOC: Do not have a way to say this in RP and it's killing my brain so - Illwei latching onto it makes a wee bit more sense to me than Conq. I'm of the view that sometimes you just have to poke the obvious because you can't take it for granted. So that's what it is. Conq...well. More in a bit.] ArVaal though, that old grouch, had made things more interesting. It was early, yet, and KeSaam did not think the others had yet come to a decision, but the movement was something he noted anyway. ArVaal had accused MaTriim. All of a sudden, MaTriim was the leading contender for imprisonment. But it was early yet. And then, ConQuis, inscrutably, had queried as well after NoVeel's desire to tie the votes... ....By tying the votes between MaTriim and NoVeel. Was it protective of MaTriim? KeSaam was not certain. It was early. He knew it was early. But he kept his eyes open all the same. The apparent contradiction did stand out to him. Was ConQuis too quick to seize on NoVeel's comment? KeSaam did not know. The slight incongruity did ask to be pursued. [OOC: Also no good way of saying this in RP - I'm trying something new. Orange means that I am willing to further pursue this if someone gives me reason / can be persuaded to vote this person. Go wild.] KeSaam was corrected—his sources of cavern gossip seemed to have gone somewhat faulty. All because he could not be bothered to bestir himself with more than his porch or his rock garden. He suspected that he knew what was going on with MaTriim here. [OOC: Yeah I realised I was confused and that you'd gone on Wiz, whoops. Should've done a tracker earlier I legit nearly said 'yes, I know, I use 'accuse' in RP-speak for vote' and then only just internalised that TUN =/= Wiz >> ] Edited to add: Oh, yeah: WiiZaad

KeSaam, too, was very sad that there would no be ability to confer privately with other kandra :[ He had expected it, and was prepared for it, but the idea that he could not assault his brothers in Preservation with discussion of the Sacred Queue and corgi memes was heartbreaking. How was he going to live without complex rules????????????????????? *Not Canon

Someone killed TarHiin. A death of the mind, and then of flesh and bones. KeSaam swept the path of his rock garden, the broom scratching against the stone. The last rock, he'd found sunwarmed in the courtyard of a Luthadel lord, had hastily parted flesh enough to snatch the rock up and stuff it inside for safekeeping. It was an oval-shaped rock, glinting inside with little gleaming spots of quartz. It now took pride of place in his rock garden, next to a jagged chunk of obsidian he'd pried from the heart of the ashmount Tyrian on a Contract that had been rather more dicey than KeSaam would've liked. If KeSaam had his way, he would stay in the Homeland forever, in his home with his rock garden and sipping tea on his porch. But TarHiin was dead, and the Third were chafing at the constraints that had been set upon them. In the wisdom of the First. KeSaam did not like Contracts. He did not like the world above. It sat uneasily with him that the Allomancers could simply reach out and take control of kandra, even if the knowledge was fiercely-guarded now. But the Second were made for duty. It was graven on their bones. KeSaam did his duty, because the Contracts guaranteed the sanctity of the Homeland. Because they remembered, the First and the Second, the days of fire and obsidian knives, the days where the Flaw was ruthlessly exploited and kandra exterminated by the humans. Because the Contracts were awful, but they were the best protection the kandra had, a formalised span of service. Because they were useful, the lords and ladies left them alone. The Contracts kept the Homeland safe. A terrible price to pay. KeSaam hadn't expected a lifetime of service. But he was kandra. He endured. Someone had killed TarHiin. He let out a long breath. The broom scratched against the stone, but his thoughts felt no cleaner. Only cluttered. Humans had done it, but there were those among the Third who would see it as a provocation and demand escalation on the part of the kandra. He knew that, the way he knew to shape flesh. MaTriim and NoVeel had both accused each other of dissent, according to cavern rumours. KeSaam wasn't sure. It was too soon to tell. Perhaps so, but he'd a healthy respect for Stiiik [OOC: @_Stick_, please feel free to find a better name I can't do this and RP both .__. For anyone who's curious, decided to go with Paalm and Haddek style kandra names instead] and expected that she would conceal her views with subtlety. But he thought she'd been acquainted with some of the firebrands among the Third...

More just paranoia You felt like the perfect IKYK bait set-up so I distrusted that, but was a little concerned that Mat wasn't pushing you or trying to frame you, and that I wasn't feeling any push against you that wasn't from a player I was certain was Village, which I'd have expected in an IKYK world. Really, my thoughts/gut on you was V!you, just wanted to cover all our bases. Devo's gemstone solved that nicely. Priority analysis always meant going Shining then you. I did get thrown by the amount of FUD Mat and Shining were putting out in this game, but that's par for the course for me, especially when I haven't played in a month Devo solved that nicely by being my anchor in this game (I usually need one!) Thanks Devo

Sigh. I should be taking a break. But alright, lesgo. Signing up as KeSaam, a moderately respectable kandra of the Second Generation, determined to do his duty to the First, and what exactly in the Lord Ruler's name is wrong with kids these days, the Third Generation is rusting insane. Occasionally tells other kandra of any generation whatsoever to get off his porch.

Added.

Added to the list. Marked as busy. Ok. Edited to add: Sign-up sheet has been updated, using this thread to identify and remove slots that have already been used. Key changes: -Removed TUN's WoT LG (this was explicitly marked WoT so should be fine) -Reactivated all of @Fifth Scholar's slots on request -Added @The Unknown Novel's two requested MRs (space games, Roshar and Scadrial sequel) -Marked the LG slot @Ashbringer is to use as slated for removal (placed the Honorblades rerun marker elsewhere on an empty, pre-existing Ash slot) -Added Sart's requested LG -Marked @StrikerEZ busy -Marked @|TJ| as busy - some entries were busy, some not -Marked @Experience as inactive and on mission -Removed @Devotary of Spontaneity's used BT slot, @Elandera's MR slot, and @Fifth Scholar's LG and QF slot due to use. Steeldancer's slot had already been removed, so I don't believe there was a further slot to be removed. Please notify me if there is any issue with the changes but this should be it. I can die in peace now .__. Edited to add 2: You haven't yet been added to the QF list. Do you want to be added?

I could absolutely see this being a thing - there might be poisonous ingredients with interesting flavours. Even then, as long as it is exotic and interesting, someone will try it. The fact only people of the Fifth Heightening could safely eat at those places without dying would increase mystique and basically make being able to eat there a marker of social status, which means there's an incentive that keeps it afloat (exclusiveness.) People are willing to do things with little to dubious value in pursuit of what's trendy; in other words, in pursuit of a thrill or of status. We know Vasher at least experiences spicy food. More on that in a bit. Warbreaker, Chapter Five: The Warbreaker Chapter Thirty-Five annotation about: Vasher is an odd case, as we know he was suppressing his Divine Breath. That being said, given Hallendren's identity as the cosmopolitan city of exotic goods, it seems reasonable to me that the Hallendren enjoy their spices, and the Returned would be typical in that regard. A divergence between the elite and the (Does suggest there could be a thrill-seeker industry through, if you suppressed your Divine Breath for maximum thrill and stopped at the last moment, if that's what's going on with Vasher. But I doubt it.) The Lemex annotation makes me think that it can be done, but at a lower Breath level than Fifth Heightening, so maybe less snobbery than if it were gated by the Fifth Heightening (IIRC, Lemex had maybe five hundred Breaths thereabouts.) Possibly a balance between enough poison that you can taste the effects at all, and not enough to kill you or make you seriously ill. But on the other hand, we know Lightsong can't get drunk, no matter how much he drinks. So not sure what's going on here, unless it's down to Cognitive shenanigans again - spices, normal, drunkenness and poisons, not so much so. As a very brief digression - If exclusiveness and social status (community, if you are less cynical) alone (even with little material returns) wasn't so much of a draw, NFTs offering exclusive access to projects that haven't even been realised yet, and which sometimes, are fairly disappointing even on realisation - they wouldn't have as much attractiveness as they apparently enjoy. It makes sense to me psychologically that given enough curious people, and the natural Breath (so social status!) gateway, something like eating fancy poisonous food could plausibly develop an attractiveness in and of itself in Hallendren.

So functionally me, Wilson/El or Ash? Oy vey, please send it in Ash

I admit I joked to Fifth a few times that it would be hilarious if I were actually Melkor and there was no Finwe. Figures. Was the most reasonable play for you guys, and as much as I wanted to do Shining the courtesy of hearing him out and not risking another MR53 (RIP Az), I expected to take available precautions. If TUN had joined us, I'd have shielded Devo, leading to the potentially hilarious situation of Feanor's dad shielding his son from him. Devo and TUN get my vote for MVP for this one. IMO, Devo hard-carried.