Pathfinder

Amenable does not mean that is a primary attribute. It just means they are open to the idea, or can be convinced. Just like with Skybreakers, I do not think we can take the current incarnation of both orders and judge them as a whole. With the skybreakers, they have an insane herald leading them coloring their actions. I think the fact that Szeth begins to question and breaks away, says to me that the skybreakers we meet in the book in "modern day" are not necessarily the hallmark of the entire order for its entire tenure. So too with Releasers. Just because we have met Malata, and that the diagram mentioned them potentially being amendable to the cause currently, does not mean the whole order functions that way and does not mean every member will think that way. edit: the quote Oathbringer page 566 "Adrotagia had entered with Malata, the Dustbringer; they were growing in companionship as Adrotagia attempted to secure an emotional bond with this lesser Diagram member who had suddenly been thrust into its upper echelons, an even predicted by the Diagram - which explained that the Dustbringers would be the Radiants most likely to accept their cause, and at that Taravangian felt proud, for actually locating one of their number who could bond a spren had not, by any means, been an assured accomplishment

Ah you are correct. The last we hear of Jakamav is when he is defeated in the ring and then that is it. No other word about him.

Maybe I am confusing who's who, but wasn't he sent back to his family estates in disgrace?

Could be. Could have sword there was a subsequent one concerning the powers. I will dig when I have time to see if I can locate it.

Agree with every single word, which is why I thought it necessary to post the WoB. That those in world would paint her one way when the reality and intention was another.

WoB says that the order the voidbringers do not have an analogue for is bondsmiths, so I think the potential surge that is missing would be adhesion or tension.

So I was looking for another WoB, and I stumbled across this one. I felt the need to add it, because it shows Jasnah's aim is for equality for all. Questioner In world, would an in-world reader of Jasnah’s book, would an in world person consider that she is also advocating for gender equality for men? Brandon Sanderson In-world? Jasnah would, but I don’t think most people who read it would. Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

We do have a WoB that supports this. He was asked if someone had the transition surgery to go from (for example) male to female, and then was healed using cosmere magic, would the person go back to being male, or would the person heal not only in appearance as a woman, but also having functioning organs etc. Brandon confirmed that the person would remain female, and the cosmere healing would heal the surgery to be functioning because the person sees themselves at a fundamental level as female. So having trouble finding the WoB I was thinking of, but this one basically says the same thing, but with the Returned instead Kogiopsis Since Returned come back as kind of an idealized form of themselves, if somebody was transgender in their original life would they Return as the sex they had been assigned the first time or the gender they identified as? Brandon Sanderson I would think that a transgendered person could definitely come back as how they identify. Perception is very important in these sorts of things. It would really depend on the person, but yes. Words of Radiance Portland signing (March 7, 2014)

For a long time that was the assumption, but it was a red herring revealed to be a southern scadrian. The reason I posted the WoBs I did in the order I did, is because 1. the fact of whether or not the bird is a kandra or aviar is immaterial, because we cannot take what he says as reliable 2. to take all broad sheet stories with a grain of salt as they are written with the intention of building drama 3. when asked if Nikki's story really did go the way she said it, it is confirmed her version is embellished because she is taking a cue from Jak. 4. this is confirmed further through the last WoB because it states she adds extra drama to her stories So for myself, the stream of logic is because of the WoB we know: 1. Nikki adds extra drama to her stories for the readership so her stories are not accurate 2. Since she learned this from allomancer Jak, it is reasonable to expect he does the same thing. 3. Since we also know the people who take the embellished stories from Nikki and Jak, further embellish it for the readership, we can further assume the stories are inaccurate. 4. Finally Jak himself even when he thinks he is being truthful is not. An aside to add is we have the Allomancer Jak stories where Handwyn comments and edits the stories on the inaccuracies. He makes a point to bring up Jak's love interest is not as head over heels as Jak lets on, and if she knew how Jak portrayed her in the stories, she would kill him. So regarding Handwyn I do not think 1. that given how often he is around Jak, that he wouldn't know jak was a feruchemist 2. if Jak was actually a feruchemist, that Handwyn in his comments would keep it secret, considering he was exposing a whole bunch of other inaccuracies. All of this combined says to me that we cannot take what Jak says as reliable, so we should not trust what he says about his powers. Now you feel that means he could have other powers. Personally I disagree and in this case I think "the butler really did do it". But to each their own. I wish you luck with your theory

This being a thread where anyone can say anything about any character they dislike, so not posting to say you are wrong to feel the way you do at all. Completely respect that Jasnah does not do it for you. Though since i spent a whole bunch of time writing a long thread on her, I have this obligatory urge to anytime someone dislikes her, to just reference the thread. If you are so inclined, give it a gander. It might give a new perspective on why she acts the way she does. Or it could only further reinforce how you feel, or you could not want to give the thread the time of day. Whatever works best for you. So below is the obligatory tag, whatever you decide, I respect. Only thing I disagree with is the whole guilty misunderstood Amaram portion. From my reading Amaram was a narcissist that got recruited by a guy who pretty much exemplifies everything he values. Both Gavilar and Amaram worked to bring about the end of the world which would result in untold numbers dying, to prove themselves right. And it is beginning to look like in both cases when they find out they were wrong, instead of trying to fix the issue, they doubled down and kept going. For me, if you genuinely were doing something for good reasons, then when you found out what you were doing was actually wrong and horrific, then you would go "hey i should stop, take responsibility, and try to fix what I did". Not "eh, not my fault. they are the problem, so lets all burn." Though part of that is referencing the reading Brandon did, so I will leave it as vague as possible unless you want me to specify, in which case I will spoiler tag it.

And this one? Brandon Sanderson So, there's a reference to a young white-haired man offering to tell a story. Whenever those words combine together, chances are very, very good that Hoid is involved. Yes, that is Hoid, but one thing I have to tell you is, not everything in that story... you are getting a story which was written by somebody, and then turned into a thing for a broadsheet. So, there have been some inaccuracies perpetuated in the broadsheets. So, yes, that's where that came from.

I think the semantics has to do with vessel. Being a vessel means you are holding something, full of something, containing something. If the power itself becomes sapient how can it contain itself? Hold itself? Be full of itself? It already is itself. So it cannot be a vessel for itself. That's why I think semantics. Could it function like a vessel holding a shard? Sure. But it's not a vessel because it's not holding itself. It is itself. That make sense?

On Scadrial doesn't everything have a little bit of ruin and preservation since they created it?

Thank you! Though it could be said that a spren could stay static bonded to a fabrial holding them at the same oath. Rather than risk losing themselves and having to bond all over again to regain that level of sapience in the physical realm.

If I understand the WoB correctly, then it is the "uploading" of the information that got changed, so when it was tapped later, it was already the new bit of information. So if I wanted to store the word "hello", but as I store, Ruin changes it to "Goodbye", and then when I go to tap it later, I recall it as "Goodbye". Couldn't the same occur with an ebook? You have to download the book to your kindle or other ereader. So just alter it when it gets downloaded, so the file now reads what you want no matter how many times the book is pulled up, or no matter how often the screen refreshes. At least that is how I read it.

Got a theory of my own, with very loose backing. Basically When a radiant dies (either from old age, or being killed), but the oaths were not broken, you have a spren who is hurt after. I think that spren gets three options. 1. Return to the cognitive and not bond any knights further (because they miss their radiant) 2. Return to the cognitive and eventually bond a new radiant 3. Through fabrial science, bond with a fabrial, with the strength depending on the oath level of the knight that died. So if the knight was a 2nd oath elsecaller, then the soulcaster made from the spren can only soulcast a limited number of essences. 5th oath elsecaller, then the soulcaster can soulcast virtually any essence. Would explain the rarity. Also would explain why the Oathgates are so limited in number. Would require (in my opinion) 40 5th oathed radiant spren (elsecaller and willshaper). Two for each oathgate. 10 gates at each of the 10 kingdoms, and 10 oathgates at Urithiru for each of the 10 kingdoms. My assumption is they would have to be on both ends. But like I said, loose theory.

No problem. Give me like a half an hour to pull up the quotes in the books for both Kaladin and Szeth showing increased stormlight efficiency. Szeth alone goes from constantly having to draw in stormlight, to that scene I showed you. Right, speed and healing also drains stormlight. Which Szeth did in that scene while doing all those lashings. That is why I referenced it. edit: got a bit swamped. For a quick few references, please refer to Way of Kings page 24. Szeth on average can manage about 3 to 4 lashings between inhalations, but the big one is when he lashes the stone to crush the two men. Szeth had just drew stormlight in, and placed one lashing on a heavy stone he cut from the wall (just like the scene I mentioned prior), and almost drains all his stormlight. Conversely the scene later I mentioned had Szeth use over 15 lashes before it drained almost all his stormlight. In the section of page 24, Szeth gets punched in the face by a shardbearer and mentions how long it will take for stormlight to heal it. While on page 374 of Words of Radiance, Szeth gets run through by two spears (one from Dalinar, one from Kaladin), and he heals that damage in seconds, while still being able to surgebind. Also page 1024 shows Szeth healing at an accelerated rate from multiple wounds from multiple soldiers that he killed, all with plenty of stormlight over to surgebind. But this was more used to support my claim that Szeth was on his way to being a savant, rather than advancing in oaths since you cannot advance in oaths on an honorblade. Kaladin's and Shallan's (her use of lightweaving improves and becomes more efficient as well) will come a bit later. Sorry for not having the time right now to list what is used when. @StanLemon I updated this point with some references for Szeth. Will try and work on Kaladin and Shallan later. edit 2: oh yeah and lift! how much she eats and how often between surgebinding has changed.

I think the point they were making was in regards to the type of powers used. Let us take the stonewards, and limit their power usage. Let us say one can use cohesion to melt a area of stone in front of him or her, like we see in the vision. That would catch what? Five? Ten koloss? That is a low power usage, on a single knight's scale. Add windrunners swooping in slicing with giant blades that slice right through whatever the koloss is using. How many could a windrunner, using minimal stormlight in that case take out? 10? 20? Doesn't even have to be a fully oathed windrunner to do it. Then there are skybreakers using division to carpet bomb. Edgedancers sliding between the koloss slicing out with their blades. Lightweavers illusions distracting the koloss, resulting them in slicing into each other. Again, doesn't have to be a grand use of the powers. Just a three or so illusions per lightweaver distracting. Dustbringers could slip and slide among the koloss burning them, setting fire in their wake. We see Lift use abrasion for extended periods of time off a little food. Do not see why that would be a large use of stormlight. Elsecallers can do as jasnah did. Now this is debated, but from what I read of the book, she did the disease transformation trick, soulcasted a wall, and steps all before the joining of the realms. So a good soulcaster can accomplish quite a bit. Then there are willshapers who (potentially) can teleport in and out slicing and dicing. Just saying each radiant could, with minimal power usage, take out a fair chunk of koloss. Increase power usage, and have a bondsmith overcharge them, and I think that goes up.

I can pull up the quotes regarding Szeth and Kaladin where they lash themselves to fly to get an idea, though off the cuff it lasts far longer than seconds. Lashing seems to depend on three things: 1. type of lashing used (quarter lightens you, half makes you weightless, full changes direction of gravitational pull) 2. number of lashings 3. size of the target lashed. So if you use a full lashing, with multiple lashings, on a large target, it is going to take a lot of stormlight, and last a relatively short amount of time (as evidenced by the rock Szeth lashed more than 15 times, to crush the shardbearer. Keep in mind he did not mention the stormlight running out and the stone falling. It kept the shardbearer's dead body pinned.) Szeth used multiple lashes to change direction and strength repeatedly and showed no sign of slowing down, both in use, as well as stormlight increased speed and healing. Again this is from a user that is inefficient when compared to a 3rd oath windrunner. 4th and 5th oath radiants would be even more efficient. Feel free to refer to the scene. I mentioned the book, and page number in my prior post. I used that scene because Szeth was "filled to the brim". So the metric would be Szeth "filled" as in could take in no more stormlight, and he was drawing off a pouch of stormlight. Both things feasible for the radiants in our scenario. That they would draw in as much stormlight as they could, and they would carry a pouch of stormlight gems, like a misting or mistborn would carry a pouch of vials of metals.

This is in response to the both of you regarding stormlight use. I am referencing a scene with Szeth in Way of Kings, page 715 because there are two instances where he is filled to the brim with stormlight and then lists a number of surgebindings. In addition in this scene Szeth is using an honorblade, which we know is less efficient at stormlight than a third oathed wind runner with the same abilities. I theorize Szeth is on his way to being a savant with the honorblade, but regardless we know it is still less efficient than a third oath windrunner. I will now list when Szeth draws stormlight, roughly based on description how much, and what he does with it. 1. Szeth having already killed two guards, he takes a deep breath from the pouch at his waist a. basic lashing of the table b full lashing on the floor c. full lashing table top d. lashed self to ceiling e. lashed self back to floor 2. new breath from pouch at his waist. stated he drew more than he ever had before till he is brimming a. lashed 24 men into the air b. lashed himself to the far wall c. lashed self downwards d. lashed dinner knife three times e. lashed self backwards f. lashed self upwards a quarter g. lashed unknown number of men h. lashed table with half basic lashing i. full lashing on table j. lashed self to celing k. lashed self down 3. drew some additional stormlight from the gemstones he brought (not a lot because he notes some are dun)(comments again he feels so full) a. lashed self behind shardbearer b. lashes large stone more than 15 times (nearly runs out of stormlight here) c. quarter lash 4. drew stormlight from spheres on the floor (does not note origin of spheres, so could be more of his original spheres that got cut by the shardblade, or could be general spheres) a. lashed self to far wall b. lashed self upwards c. lashed self back down d. lashed plank up with multiple lashings e. lashed self three times down f. lashed self towards king g. lashed downwards 5. drew more stormlight from spheres a. lashed self downwards twice. Then there is also this comment that I feel fits the Koloss in this scene: "A shardblade hissed through the air beside him, and Szeth exhaled lightly, Stormlight rising from his lips as he ducked out of the way. The two shardbearers attacked as bodies fell from above, but Szeth was too quick, too limber. The shardbearers didn’t work together. They were accustomed to dominating a battle field or dueling with a single enemy. Their powerful weapons made them sloppy." So the reason I list all of this is this is a honorblade user, who we know for a fact is less efficient than a third oathed windrunner with the same power set. That is how much he was able to accomplish on a single pouch of gemstones (confirmed up to number 4 as we do not know the origin of those spheres onwards). So I do not think the radiants would run out so quickly of stormlight. To refresh, this is what Szeth accomplished with one pouch of spheres 1. basic lashing of the table 2. full lashing on the floor 3. full lashing table top 4. lashed self to ceiling 5. lashed self back to floor 6. lashed 24 men into the air 7. lashed himself to the far wall 8. lashed self downwards 9. lashed dinner knife three times 10. lashed self backwards 11. lashed self upwards a quarter 12. lashed unknown number of men 13. lashed table with half basic lashing 14. full lashing on table 15. lashed self to celing 16. lashed self down 17. lashed self behind shardbearer 18. lashes large stone more than 15 times 19. quarter lash

We have a WoB that Jak embellishes his abilities for the attention to his stories. Give me a moment to pull it up. Stormlightning Is the bird that talked to Allomancer Jak a kandra? Brandon Sanderson Haha, RAFO. Allomancer Jak thinks that it probably must be. Stormlightning Are you gonna say if it's an Aviar? Brandon Sanderson I'm going to say Allomancer Jak has a strange blend of trustworthiness and not. He doesn't think that he's lying when he says things. FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019) Questioner Broadsheets of Bands of Mourning. The story that Allomancer Jak's sidekick... in it, there's this <part>, "After disembarking the the lift, I walked to the location where my foe would have hit the ground. I found no trace of him, and though no one witnessed his fall, a young white-haired man was there and offered to tell me a story. I declined." Is that Hoid? Brandon Sanderson So, there's a reference to a young white-haired man offering to tell a story. Whenever those words combine together, chances are very, very good that Hoid is involved. Yes, that is Hoid, but one thing I have to tell you is, not everything in that story... you are getting a story which was written by somebody, and then turned into a thing for a broadsheet. So, there have been some inaccuracies perpetuated in the broadsheets. So, yes, that's where that came from. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) Oudeis I loved Nazh's "cameo" in the Nikki Savage story of Bands of Mourning. I especially like the touch of the map with the ripped edge in the book. Did the events really happen in the book as she describes in her broadsheet piece, or was the actual meeting punched up a bit for drama? Isaac Stewart Thanks for your kind words on the Nikki Savage story. I hope we get to see her again. Since she's learning the art of storytelling from Allomancer Jak, I suspect her version of events was slightly embellished. Oudeis Well she has been in two of the stories so far, so fingers crossed! Isaac Stewart I'm blanking on this just a little bit. Which was the second story she was in? Oudeis In Shadows of Self, there was a broadsheet article about a woman in the southern mountains who ran into a strange red and black person by a placid pool. Her name was [Nicelle] Sauvage, and I admittedly made a bit of an assumption that she and [Nicki] Savage are the same woman. Isaac Stewart You are exactly right! She did appear in the Shadows of Self broadsheet. Thank you for reminding me of that. Oudeis The name adaptation threw me off, I only picked it up this last time I read through it in my epic-cosmere-re-read leading up to Oathbringer. I do have to admit, while pretty cool, the dashing stranger who tried to kill a nice woman and destroyed public property in the sky above a metropolis using unknown arcana seemed... a little out-of-character for Nazh as we've otherwise seen him. Isaac Stewart [Nicki] added some extra drama to her version of events to make it more interesting. I don't think Nazh would've tried to kill her, though he might want her to think that he was. He's easily annoyed by those who get in the way of his missions, even if they're just nosy adventurers. Footnote: Nicelle Sauvage is mentioned in the "Visitors From Other Worlds" article in "The House Record" broadsheet. Nicki Savage is mentioned in "The Ghastly Gondola!" article in "The New Ascendancy" broadsheet. Shire Post Mint Mistborn Coin AMA (Oct. 26, 2017)

True not every fabrial soulcaster can soulcast metal, and some are even set to certain metals (like bronze in Azir). I was just commenting on the potential to soulcast aluminum. Yes I believe radiant soulcasting would be capable of making aluminum. It is a base metal, not an alloy, so the soulcaster would just need to be familiar with aluminum for the metal to default to base aluminum. For alloys or certain percentages to be burned by a mistborn, the soulcaster has to intend it (WoB). As for actually doing it, stone has been soulcasted from air plenty of times. I see no reason why an aluminum block to encase an enemy could not be soulcasted from the very air around the enemy. But as I mentioned in my post, there is conflicting information, so if you think Shallan and Jasnah would not be able to gain the knowledge to do so, then to each their own. I think they could. As to trapping them without a gemheart in a block of aluminum, unless they could some how exert enough force to punch a hole through, I do not see how the body, or the fused would escape. The fused are investiture. That is why the cube would be solid all the way around. Not bars. So they would remain trapped.

Good point, and attracting fabrials (I think that was what they were?) could be used to keep the tunnels from flooding by continually drawing the water out.

We have a lot of conflicting information regarding aluminum. Based on what I have read, I believe you can turn something into aluminum, but not aluminum into something else. Some of the conflicting pieces of information we have, I have listed below. if you would like the quotes or WoB themselves, please ask, and I will do my best to pull them up later 1. Shallan has a necklace of aluminum, and says aluminum is only made via soulcasting. 2. We have a WoB with Brandon saying Shallan is not necessarily right. Some have taken this to mean you cannot soulcast aluminum. I have taken this to mean that soulcasting is not the only way. 3. We have a WoB where the questioner says that we know you can soulcast things into aluminum, but what about turning aluminum into something else. Brandon then says it takes a whole lot of investiture, beyond what is feasible, to turn aluminum into something else. Personally I think if you could not soulcast things into aluminum, Brandon would have corrected the questioner, but others feel that that is an assumption, and not a confirmation. 4. We have Taravangian mentioning the aluminum coming from meteorites. 5. Despite all this, when Hoid showed up with sheets of aluminum, the people there did not seem to recognize it. So some take that to mean people do not know what aluminum is on whole on Roshar. Personally I take that as there is a war going on, they do not know how screamers function, so would not understand why that metal would protect them versus not. I think that is everything.

Ah, then we do not fully agree. I think that the perp brought the realms together, and enabled Kaladin and Co to transfer. The recharging of the stormlight, I think is something separate. But as said in my post, there seems to be a whole lot we all (as in everyone on the thread) fundamentally disagree on in various forms across the board.