Pathfinder

Wasn't disagreeing with you. Just referenced Sanderson's commentary to support what you wrote.

Sanderson has commented on the Sherlock Inspiration below: Brandon Sanderson Chapter Three Wax investigates If you've read the book, then you probably won't be surprised to find that a partial inspiration for it was the Sherlock Holmes stories. Of course, you'd have to search pretty far to find any kind of detective story that isn't somehow influenced by good Mister Holmes. This story, however, is more consciously inspired along those lines. I purposely developed a mysterious (almost even magical) series of robberies along the lines of what you see in the Holmes stories. The technological era is similar as well. Of course, the characters are much different—even down to the character roles and dynamics. I wanted Wax to be a thinker, but more of a lawman than an eccentric. Wayne has enough eccentricity for three characters. I wanted the way that Wax approached solving a problem like this to be more methodical, more like a lawman who has grown accustomed to doing things on his own—but who has procedures he follows. Beyond that, I wanted Wax to be solid. Many people are going to prefer Wayne for obvious reasons, but I prefer this story to be about Wax. (I'll talk more about Wayne's origins later.) Wax's solidity helps anchor the story, I feel. Perhaps I find him more interesting than others will, but the different parts of him that are warring inside create for a stronger dynamic than some of the other characters, who are more static. The Alloy of Law Annotations (March 14, 2014)

I will try one last time and then leave this be. I am not debating what Wax hypothetically would or would not do. I am sure if the scenario presented itself as you have, he would try. What I am saying is we do not know what the result would be because we do not know if it works that way or not. It has not been attempted. edit: I will put it another way. Sure Wax would try it. So what is the result? Can you reference to me the book and page number where Wax attempted it, and it worked? Can you show me what happened when it occurred in the novels? edit2: and just to head the next response off at the pass, I am not saying the theory does not have merit. I am not saying it is not plausible. I am not saying it is not possible.

Totally respect your opinion/theory on the subject. But just to clarify, for the purpose of the thought experiment I was asking Parallax, we were treating it as if it was in fact Evi and the people of Rathalas. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with the theory, but that was not the purpose of the thought experiment. Wasn't debating whether or not it was Evi and the people of Rathalas. For the purpose of the thought experiment, it is Evi and the people of Rathalas. So treating it as actually them, and treating the silencing of their voices as forgiveness, would that constitute the PoV Parallax is looking for? Sadeas does confirm in the books that he feels the Thrill. He is also very passionate about taking out Dalinar. There are a few PoVs of Sadeas where we see him think that way. Also considering it was the entire army that carried out the burning, I think it would be safe to say there had to be the occasional soldier consumed by the thrill that slaughtered whoever was in front of them. Or here's a thought, what about the civil war in Jah Keved? It was confirmed via Taravangian that the Thrill hung out there, and made the fighting carry on for days long after it would have made sense to stop. That the slaughter on all sides was massive. But I do not recall soldiers mentioning hearing screaming. So my theory at least is the person has to genuinely feel remorse about what they did, and have a connection to those that died to hear screaming from the spiritual aspect left over from their death. In response to the Elantris reference:

Never said he wouldn't try if he had access. Not saying he wouldn't think to. But we cannot assume what the result would be of him trying, because he has not tried, nor have we seen such a result of trying. Theoretically it could possibly work. But it has not occurred yet. Which is why I said on Earth, in the real world, we do not know if it works that way.

Sure he could, but he hasn't. So at this point in time on Earth, on October 8th 2019, we don't know.

Could be. Still need to burn/tap the attribute to be able to use the powers. I think part of the disconnect in our conversation is you are treating this as Wax reasoning this and trying this. I am saying out of the world, as in you and me, discussing what we know from the books and WoB, determining if it would work or not. Could Wax get the idea, screw around with it, and find out if it works? Sure! But he hasn't, so we don't know. In order to use those several kilos, they have to either be ingested to be burned, or worn to be tapped.

Could be. All that spiritual data hanging out in the spiritual realm at the same time. Though, then shouldn't everyone involved hear it as well? Like the soldiers that rolled the barrels in and set fire to it? We are led to believe Sadeas never heard screaming, even though he was just as responsible. Maybe you have to genuinely feel what you did was wrong to hear the screaming and gain a connection to the spiritual remains of the deceased? Not saying I disagree with you. Just throwing things out to think on.

Well you would need to be a fullborn as strong as the lord ruler right? So you would be burning/tapping as much as possible to (and this is potential because we do not know if it works this way either) be as strong or stronger of a feruchemist than the lord ruler. The assumptions do make sense, but again we do not know if it works that way. Wax reasoned if you could get a medallion of 3 abilities, why not just wear multiple medallions, each with three separate abilities, so you have all the powers and be a fullborn? It makes sense. It should work based on what we know. Yet Allik confirms it does not. So could your idea work? Sure! But we do not know enough about the mechanics to be sure. There could be a reason it does not. Just like there is a reason that we do not know, that wearing multiple medallions does not work. Several kilos of metal that need to be ingested or worn. Basically re-creating what Vin did while being powered by the mists.

You can still run out though. Never said it wasn't. It takes quite a few assumptions, but if those assumptions do stand, then yes I agree it could work. But at this time we do not know if those assumptions do work. True, though you can still run out. Compounding gives you far more than you would have normally, but you still burn through the metal, or empty stores from tapping. To my knowledge we also do not know the burn rate, though in Bands of Mourning, they run through the stores incredibly quickly. Wax comments he would need new metals to compound to restore them. Theoretically yes. Again, not saying it isn't a good idea. Also not saying if all those assumptions were true, it would not work. Just saying we do not know at this point that it does in fact work that way.

So took a whole lotta digging but I found it! The WoB is open to interpretation to a degree, which is why I said this is a thought experiment. We know there is some of "you" left in the spiritual realm after you die for a long time. Now whether that "you" is enough to provide forgiveness is an unknown, but for the purpose of the thought experiment, I was asking Parallax if we hypothetically knew for a fact it was, would that count as a PoV of the people of the Rift. Also as I typed my response to traveller below, I recalled another WoB that confirmed the screams are associated with the spiritual realm, which I feel ties in and supports the idea that it is Evi's and the people of the Rift's spiritual selves that are screaming at Dalinar. Again, it is not confirmed, and it is my own theory/personal view of it, but for the purpose of the thought experiment, I was asking to treat it as true/fact. Argent Is death in the Cosmere a two-stage process? It seems to me like (under normal circumstances) the body dies first, sending the mind fully in the Cognitive Realm; the soul, presumably, remains in the Spiritual for the entire process. I am a little unclear on what happens after that though - what is it that passes into the Beyond, just the mind? Does the soul / spiritual aspect / Spiritweb just kind of... break down in the Spiritual Realm, turn into free iInvestiture? Brandon Sanderson Yes. It's a two stage process, and most of what you said is correct. The odd thing is, though, that the Spiritweb doesn't completely break down (just like your body doesn't immediately break down.) Even after a long time, there's a record of that Spiritweb in the Spiritual Realm. Oversleep Wait wait wait. If there is a "corpse" of Spiritweb (so to speak) and actual, physical corpse is also there... Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy? Could it be still viable for Hemalurgy if you really know what you're doing and have some useful powers (manipulating Connection comes to mind)? Could you patch the remnants of the Spiritweb and staple it to the body and end up with some zombie-zombie Lifeless? You'd still need to give it a mind but I figure Awakening is just doing that? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. Stormlight Three Update #6 (Feb. 5, 2017) Yep, thank you for explaining it wonderfully! We do know the screams are a cosmere wide effect, so it isn't strictly limited to the Thrill Blightsong Is anything magical going on with the screams Szeth hears? Brandon Sanderson Uhhh, Szeth's screams. Uhhm, I'm trying to decide how to answer this. It is not, see here's the thing. What we would call magical may not be considered magical in the Cosmere, but it depends on your definition of magic. Would Szeth if he were on our planet and have done those things would he hear those screams, probably not, but would someone else in the Cosmere who had gone through what he had gone through hear those screams, yes. Blightsong So it has to do with the spiritual realm? Brandon Sanderson Yea, mhmm, yea. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

Ah I understand what you are proposing better. I still don't think it will work for two reasons, but I understand now. 1. They did not know about nicrosil at that time, so Sazed would not be able to store it. 2. We do not know that if you burn a identity free nicrosil metal mind of a feruchemical ability, would turn you into a feruchemist of that ability. Potentially it could, but theoretically it would only last so long as you burn the metal. It potentially would not be permanent. Basically we just don't know. I believe the situation you are drawing upon is the WoB where if someone spiked out feruchemical gold from Miles, but he still had allomanic gold, and had a metal mind full of gold health left over, he could still burn that gold metal mind for feruchemical healing, thereby healing his spirit web, making him a feruchemist again. So I agree, theoretically, if you made a metal mind without identity, and gave it to an allomancer with that power analogue in allomancy, they could burn it and get the feruchemical ability out of it. What I am uncertain of, is if you could do it in such a way to change you into a feruchemist of that ability. But it is an interesting thought.

Could have sworn it was a WoB, but maybe then that is why I have not located it. Either way, thank you for posting that! I will save that, just in case that was it all along.

Exactly. I am not saying it is not possible. What I am saying is you were going off of what Vendel said. What Vendel proposed only allows someone with that specific power to use it. So it won't matter whether it is your metal mind or mine, but only those that have that power can use it. It was not revealed how the Southerners were able to make medallions that anyone can use yet. We know it is possible, but we do not know the process. And even the southerners do not know how to make the bands. They only get up to two or three powers. Again not saying it is possible. I am just saying we do not know how to yet.

That only allows anyone who is already a feruchemist with that ability to use it. Not anyone at all. They still have not figured out how to make medallions that allow anyone without abilities to use any medallions. And the southerners that make medallions still have not figured out how to make a medallion for all of the powers. edit: to avoid confusion Persona A makes a gold metal mind while storing identity Person B is a gold feruchemist and can use the gold metal mind Person C is a gold feruchemist and can use the gold metal mind Person D is a steel feruchemist, and cannot use the gold metal mind That is where we currently are at this time.

Unfortunately no, but thanks for trying. It mentions that humans used to harvest them. Problem is the wording. Its up there with the underwater kingdom in the cognitive realm WoB. I really should start a word document where I save them when I stumble across them, just so I will have a place to find them easier.

Personally I feel although Jasnah is guarded, she does love, and trust. She loves and trusts in her family. I do not feel she needs a relationship with Kaladin for that to happen. I wrote a overly long thread on Jasnah the person that I believe supports this and included the link below if you are curious

I do not think it is safe to say at all. WoB shown below that Roshar is ahead in technology regarding gemstones. But to each their own. Braid_Tug (paraphrased) We asked Brandon about gem cutting tech levels on Roshar. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He hedged some. But did let us know that while it was still labor intensive, it was not as bad as Renaissance Europe. That yes, they do have an edge. But would not state what the edge was. Even with us making jokes about Shard scalpels to make the cuts. DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

Keep in mind how it was presented to Jasnah: Way of Kings page 91 "You didn't ask me about all the feminine arts. You left out painting and drawing." "I have never had much use for them." "But they are of the arts," Shallan said feeling desperate. This was where she was most accomplished! "Many consider the visual arts the most refined of them all. i brought my portfolio. I would show you what I can do." Shallan didn't say "hey check out all my scientific sketches of the ecology". In fact as per WoB, what she is doing in that regard is new. There isn't a whole practice of biologists going around drawing the ecology and studying it. To Jasnah Shallan was saying "hey let me show you the portraits of the heralds I painted!" (which she did mention she makes wonderful glyphwards just prior). Later when Jasnah sees what Shallan has done, she acknowledges its use and apologizes.

You can totally find it strange the idea the people of Rathalas forgiving Dalinar. However based on this thought experiment, we are going off of a few very real, very verified facts. First we know for a fact that the spiritual self remains in the spiritual realm for a very very long time (WoB back that up). Second we know for a fact that to Dalinar, he heard Evi and the people of the Rift screaming in his head. And finally we know for a fact that the screaming ended when the voice in his head that sounded like Evi forgave him. So the thought experiment is taking those three facts, and extending it to if we knew for a fact that those voices were in fact the spiritual self of Evi and the people of Rathalas, and Evi forgiving Dalinar silenced not only her own voice, but also the people of Rathalas, then it would be logical by extension to believe that the people of Rathalas also forgave Dalinar. Otherwise he would still be hearing them scream. So in this thought experiment, if we knew for a fact that the people of Rathalas forgave Dalinar, would that count as the PoV you were asking for? Would that satisfy your requirements for redemption? You can feel free to disagree with their logic, but the thought experiment is not whether or not you agree with their logic, it is would their forgiveness constitute as their PoV for terms of redemption? The aggrieved party has accepted Dalinar's punishment. But it does matter. It would not be logical otherwise. We could say how would you feel about Adolin beating women to death? Would that change how you feel about him? If the reason he never settled down, is he abused every woman he dated? That is completely out of character for Adolin, so how would such a thought experiment teach us anything? Dalinar beating Evi is completely out of character for him. So how would such a thought experiment teach us anything? No I do not. You believe you do, but I disagree. See my earlier response See my earlier response

Ironeyes So, uh, we know that the charcoal creatures are afraid of coins. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Ironeyes So are the white chalk creatures, which I think are called Shadowblazes… Brandon Sanderson Yes. Ironeyes Are they also afraid of coins? Brandon Sanderson Are they also afraid of coins? To a much lesser extent. Um, I can give you guys some backstory on this. What’s going on here is that the place these things come from, um, linear structure and things like this are frightening to them, like they come from a non-linear location. Time does not move linearly where they come from. When they come into this world, structure and linear time progression, is bizarre to them. And there are some who have embraced it, and been like, “This is cool and different!” and there are others that are still terrified of it, as a representation of what is so alien from the world they came from. So that’s why we’ve got this whole clocks, and even structure, as a metaphor for, um, something that is terrifying to them. Uh, Rithmatist started in the Cosmere. The magic shares a lot of its roots, then, in Cosmere magic worldbuilding. I split if off because I wrote the whole first book with it being in the Cosmere. I split it off, saying “No, I don’t want Earth to be in the Cosmere.” Even an alternate version of Earth. It just raises too many questions about the nature of Earth being involved in this. I want the Cosmere to be its own dwarf galaxy of which not even a dimension of Earth is involved. And when I made that decision, I broke Rithmatist off. That’s the only one I had written that didn’t belong, but it still has, so, it means that the magic is going to feel very familiar to you, uh, it’s going to feel like the magic of a, um, of the Cosmere. And Cosmere magic is based around, usually, human beings making a symbiotic bond with an entity made out of the magic. This is, kind of, one of the origins of Cosmere magic, and Rithmatist has, therefore, its roots in that. I’ve done some things since I’ve split it off in the outlines to distinguish it, but it’s going to have the same roots. So you’ll notice some things like that, that are similar. Questioner Uh, before you split The Rithmatist from the Cosmere, did the Shadowblazes come from the Cognitive realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Yeah, the Shadowblazes were in the Cognitive realm, they’re--you know, well, they’re more Spiritual realm. They were Spiritual realm, sorry. They were Spiritual realm entities that got pulled in, uh, to the Physical realm. And the Spiritual realm has no time, um, it exists independent of time and location, all times and all places are one, and so, uh, when something that’s from the Spiritual realm got pulled into the Physical realm, it was like, “This is so weird!” Um, and there are very few things in the Cosmere that exist only on the Spiritual realm, which was a really fun thing I could do with this book, was show that. Cause most things exist on all three realms. Um, so, yeah. So, yeah, I mean if you’ve got, if you’re a Cosmere, uh, theologian--not theologian, magic, uh, what do you call it? Uh, they call that, uh, I have a word for it in-world. But anyway, if you’re a realmatic theorist, you can kind of pick out how the Spiritual realm beings were related, originally, to the realmatic theory. Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017) Questioner In Shadesmar, the solid and liquid phases are inverted. So, in the Spiritual Realm, is it something to do with solid and gas phases, or is it not the same at all? Brandon Sanderson It is not quite where you're going, but I like the way you're thinking. Questioner So then what's the reason that they can't travel to the Spiritual Realm? Brandon Sanderson The Spiritual Realm is not a place. Skyward San Francisco signing (Nov. 8, 2018) Argent Can somebody travel to the Spiritual Realm, the same as the Cognitive? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it's a very different experience. It is possible… You may have seen people do it... Argent As in you're not sure, or you're being obnoxiously vague? Brandon Sanderson No... Questioner #1 As in, you probably have but he's having trouble remembering it. Brandon Sanderson No no no... For instance, Elend burning atium and duralumin pulled most of him into the Spiritual Realm. Argent Oh, that's what happens there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. He kind of got yanked into- You also have seen people Ascend with the powers and dip into the Spiritual Realm for a little bit. Argent So, Vin? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. But they could be on both, or either, or both at the same time. But you have seen Vin stick into the Spiritual Realm. And it happened to Sazed/Harmony... Questioner #2 Oh! So is that where the gods live? Kinda? Brandon Sanderson Most of the bulk of the Shard's energy of being is contained in the Spiritual Realm, yes. Except for one notable exception! Questioner #2 The <mists? mistwraith?>? Brandon Sanderson No. Footnote: We now know that the "one notable exception" Brandon refers to at the end is the Dor, which is mostly contained in the Cognitive Realm. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Questioner How do states of matter affect how things look in the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms? Brandon Sanderson So, generally, how people perceive something is very important to the reflection in the Cognitive Realm, and so the physical state of matter is going to be involved in that, but generally, it flows the other direction from the Spiritual Realm. Questioner Do the forms of Investiture that we've seen, Stormlight, metals, Shardpools, do the fact that those happen in general the same types of states of matter, all physical, solid, is kinda going to be like metal for Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that is generally the way it will be. Oathbringer Portland signing (Nov. 16, 2017) Oudeis If a seon were on Roshar, could it still communicate instantly with seons on Sel? Brandon Sanderson So, let’s just say the Cognitive Realm is bounded by distance, and the Spiritual Realm is not. So it depends on how that mechanic is working. Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016) Ward When Harmony Ascends, he admits he doesn't have a good view of the Spiritual Realm. Does he develop a better one over time? And are there other Shards that already have a very good view of that? Brandon Sanderson Yes. But it is still something that is hard to grok, so to speak, in-canon, *inaudible*, hard to understand. But he has a much better understanding, and the other Shards, some of them have a very good understanding. The thing is, the difference between the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond is not something that is immediately obvious. Ward So, the Spiritual Realm is not the Beyond? Brandon Sanderson No, Spiritual Realm is not the Beyond. There are three Realms of existence. The Beyond, some would say... There are philosophers would would say, the Spiritual Realm and the Beyond are one, that the soul gets sucked into and joins the Investiture. That's the idea of the One. But, most people would say the Beyond is not... Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) RankWeis I've been thinking about the Parshendi and I guess this is as good a place to ask as any - when the parshendi change, there's an obvious change in the physical realm, and there seems to be a change in the cognitive realm as well. Is there a change in the spiritual realm? I know we haven't dug much into it, but it seems like a change in the spiritual realm is very difficult or impossible - if you could change in the spiritual realm is it really the same 'thing' at the end of the process? Mostly I'm curious about the first question...the second question is more of a philosophical train of thought. Brandon Sanderson Things in the spiritual realm do change, but subtly. For instance, a person's spiritual component knows how old they are. Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 20, 2016) Questioner Mistborn travels to Roshar, what does he or she use to get Invested? Brandon Sanderson *pause* So. *pause* I think I've talked about this before on the 17th Shard, but I'm not 100% sure and so I don't want to anything right now, not knowing what I've said. But you can look it up. You can ask Peter. Hey Peter, have I talked about someone using-- Have I ever in an interview before talked about using metals... A Mistborn travels to Roshar and uses the metals there? Peter Ahlstrom I think that you have said that they could do it. Brandon Sanderson I said it. Okay, so the thing about the metals you have to understand is the metals are a key, the metals are not magical themselves, except for specific ones. If I've already said that I can tell you, go to Roshar and you could use the metals that are there to power your Allomancy because the difference is in your soul and you're actually drawing directly from Preservation. Remember that on the Spiritual Realm, this is the big tidbit--they're listening. On the Spiritual Realm time, distance, and space are irrelevant. It's a place where time and space are compounded in one. So anything that exists on the Spiritual Realm, space doesn't matter for it. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

I do not know if we found that or not. I have not heard anything, so I think it is still a mystery at this point, but as this is going off of recollection, take my statement with a grain of salt.

The quality of breath does matter regarding heightening, just at a certain point it is so minor as not to be noticeable. Weltall (paraphrased) I asked if someone who had a lot of Breath would have it weaken collectively, in the same way that the single Breaths of children are more vibrant than others and move one slightly closer to a Heightening, then weaken as they grow older (and contribute slightly less towards a Heightening). Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He said that it wouldn't be noticeable once you accumulate enough Breath and, for example, Hoid wouldn't find himself suddenly losing perfect pitch as a function of time. Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

We know re-swearing the oaths, if you are not the original knight, is not enough to revive a spren. Not saying that is what you are saying, but it could also mean swearing the oaths is not necessarily needed to revive a spren either.

I agree to all of the above, but would like to add more explanations for soulcasting/seeing more soulcasting used in combat (though I doubt that will be because I think jasnah will be in the background till the back half of stormlight)