DeployParachute

I'm pretty confident it is the same sketch too, which I'll note means that one of Shallan's "alters" ensured it didn't get ripped up after being called out by Jasnah on the matter. @SLNC This is great. After WoR, I spent hours and hours putting together massive posts, thesis, walls of text explaining the nuances of the Shallan/Kaladin writing. Now, I get to sit back and watch you do all that for me. It's nice, so have my most heartfelt thanks, and many of my up votes for this thread.

@SLNC I know that must have taken a lot to work up the courage to share such a personal story with us.I am grateful that you trusted us enough to put yourself out there and open up. I've always thought that this community is one of the best ones to be found online, and I hope it goes without saying that there are many here, myself included, who would be more than willing to lend an ear should your ever need it.

Ok, I legit LOLd at that

But of course, I agree with you intellectually. I even had this same thought and argument with myself as I was typing that out. But in the end, I put what I put because that is how I feel, and will readily admit that that feeling is painted by my own personal experience. I think I would feel better about them being able to get together later so long as there was a bit more parity, i.e. both Shallan and Kaladin getting opportunities to explore more about what they are looking for in a long term partner. Problem with that line of thinking though is that I do not see another love interest being introduced for Kaladin in the rest of the 5 book arc, if at all. So, while logically, I conclude that you are absolutely correct, it unfortunately does nothing for how I feel about it right now. I dunno, I still consider myself recovering from the fallout of this triangle, ask me again in a week

I'll add to this, as it builds upon feelings about why I want this plot to be really and truly done with, as "suggested" by the marriage between Adolin and Shallan. Moving forward, assuming that Brandon didn't completely abandon the Shalladin ship, and he still has plans for this to be addressed in the future, there are only a few scenarios that I can see playing out in order to end Shadolin. 1. Adolin and Shallan start encountering real problems and difficulties with their relationship resulting in a) Shallan seeking to break it off (hurts Adolin, perhaps even contributes to him breaking enough for his own Nahel bond) b ) Adolin seeking to break it off (now wouldn't that be interesting?) 2. Adolin dies. Please no. No No No. As you said, it would be one of the worst things done to a character. I've grown too attached to him, and a death would mean that he really, truly was no more than a handy stable plot device to be used by the author to force development for other characters. This would be tragic to see this character end up this way Regardless of which of the above events were to occur, my problem with all of them, with the expectation that Shallan and Kaladin is revisited, is that no matter what, Kaladin gets to end up being Shallan's "second choice". The runner up. Especially if Kaladin has no other romantic entanglements or narratives of his own. He gets to just wait around until Shallan decides that she is finally ready for him. I hate the thought of that. If Kaladin is to have a romantic plot in upcoming books, then I feel that he deserves to be someone's first choice. This is why, now that Shallan appears to have made her decision (even if it was done when she wasn't in full agreement with herself), that I want this whole thing to be done. I can make my peace with it, if it ends here. I can let the ship that never was go. Just don't drag it out, because I can't see a satisfactory outcome (for myself at least) coming about if it does.

This. This is why I gave the book a 7/10, although I probably felt depressed for very different reasons than you. Overall, i think the actual prose of the book is some of the best that Brandon has ever done. I'm very proud to see his major growth and improvement in this regard. But, as others have noted, the narrative felt very overwhelmed at times, bogged down by too many things going on, and from too many different perspectives. It also feels like a lot of the mystery has gone out of the story at this point. Now that Odium has a face, a voice, a character, it feels less threatening than it once did. I also thing the lengthy amount of time spent in Shadesmar hurt a lot of the mystery as well. You definitely came away from that feeling as though the overall cosmere plot line is bleeding in heavily. I also don't know how much plugging Vivenna into the storyline added to it. The cameo's are getting to be a bit too much. I know that some elements and characters from Warbreaker were originally created with SA in mind, but it feels like we're starting to lose some of that "separate and distinct" feel for some of the different cosmere works. WoR had me feeling very elated at the end. OB did not. And now, because of OB, I don't think I'm going to be able to read or enjoy some of my favorite scenes from WoR for a while now, if ever.

God, yes, thank you! I've been asking myself this too. What is it that Adolin gets from this relationship that he needs. He can't be the only one giving, and I think that the relationship is shaping up to be in that state for a while. The only thing I can think of is perhaps Adolin gets a feeling of purpose from Shallan? A way of having his life be meaningful and relevant in a world that has just been upended?

Adolin will start to stress and strain under what is sure to be a tumultuous and failing marriage. And at the end, he'll shatter. There is no one else at the moment currently in position to break him more than Shallan.

FOREWARNING: Pick out your favorite artisan cheese, because more whine is incoming... So I was rereading Part 5, because I blew through it pretty quickly on my first read, and of course I always knew second reads of OB were going to have me picking up stuff that I missed. In keeping with previous analogies, if the last scene that I quoted in this thread was the sinking of the S.S. Shalladin, then this one was the equivalent of someone hawking a loogie into the water as it finally disappeared under the waves: Ah...the boots. The boot joke making yet another appearance. Only this time, even more people are in on it. Never mind that this is a tie back to the very first scene that Kaladin and Shallan interacted in, the scene that most people would agree was very enjoyable and revealing about their two characters at the time. A scene that offered a very provocative first glimpse as to the potential relationship between these two. One that I'm sure that most Shalladin shippers were hoping to be able to point back to and say "See, it started there." Well now...now its a freaking wedding gift to Shallan from Kaladin and Bridge Four. And Bridge Four. And Bloody Bridge Four. It couldn't even have been from just Kaladin. It couldn't have been the last bit of non-Adolin related connection to share just before her wedding. Nope, the entirety of Bridge Four went in on that very special gag gift. ...gah! ... ...GAAAAAAAH! Ignore me. I'm just very, as the kids these days would say, "butthurt". Now, as a form of therapy for myself, I will compose the scene in which this weird arrangement must have been made.

You can go to the WOB arcanum and search "Shalladin", but here are what I feel are the relevant ones: Questioner (paraphrased) Will Kaladin and Shallan get together? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There will be Shalladin moments in Oathbringer. Sources: Rasarr's Signing Report DrogaKrolow Do you have your favorite fan theory? You don't have to say if it's untrue or not, but-- Brandon Sanderson Favorite fan theories. Oh wow. I'm always really curious about which two characters people like to "ship" together DrogaKrolow Shalladin! Brandon Sanderson That one would be pretty interesting. What else-- Favorite fan theories-- I've read a bunch of them that I just chuckle about, but some of them-- I mean it's a mark of pride for me when somebody gets it right. That means that I have done my foreshadowing well. The unfortunate part of that is, when it actually happens in the books there will be a whole lot "I knew it" rather than "Oh I'm so surprised". It's getting so hard to surprise you people. If I do my job right and I put in the foreshadowing then you will be able to guess things even though sometimes you guess things you are not supposed to be able to guess yet, because there is no foreshadowing. But yeah like there will be big revelations in Oathbringer that I think will blow the average reader's mind and the people who have been reading closer "Oh yeah, that. What they don't know that yet?" My favorite fan theories-- I can't think of one of the top of my head, I've heard some really good ones though

Seconded. Now that the commitment has been made, I really want Adolin and Shallan to go the distance, somehow, and make it work. I really hope BS doesn't go with the Gavilar/Navani/Dalinar parallel at this point. Having Shallan continue to have doubts about her feelings towards Kaladin even after the union, at some point realizing hey"true feelings" only after Adolin is out of the way. That would just be bad writing IMO. As for Kaladin, well, someone in the main book reactions thread mentioned how he seems to be setting up for a path to being alone, becoming this more mythical inspiring symbol for people to look up to, to aspire to, admire, emulate, but never really know him. And it's sad. Syl is constantly trying to convince him throughout OB that he needs someone, he's unhappy, there is a need within him that is going unfulfilled, that even Syl can't help with. I don't know if that's going to be met now, not to say that Shallan would have or could have, but the author heavily implied it. Then again I think BS heavily implied in OB that Shallan doing for Kaladin what Tien used to would not have been a good thing. Laral married, and happy. Shallan married and happy ( presumably). Tarah likely also paired up by this point in time. Seems like Kaladin is destined to always choosing others over himself. Hope he gets over that. Otherwise the"always have to protect protect protect, lead lead lead" gig is going to get old for me as a reader.

Not to do much rehashing of many things that have already been said by others, but as a big Shalladin shipper in the immediate aftermath of WOR, I can't say that I feel very...satisfied with how OB dealt with this particular minor plot line. Unfortunately, to me, this was the thing that I posted most about following WoR, and indeed, it was the only thing that actually had me signing up to post on the forums in the first place. Seriously, I never bothered to discuss books in an online forum format before that. I felt very invested in learning more about that particular romantic entanglement plot line, and hoped to see more of it, and as a result, even though this was like, 0.001% of the story in OB, I feel it has disproportionately impacted my overall satisfaction with the ending of this particular book. Much like @maxal Had discussed how the Book One preview chapters were having her down on the overall tone of the book and its treatment of Adolin, I can't help but feel a little let down once I got through OB in it's entirety. It's not the fact that Adolin and Shallan ended up married and happy together. I like them both, and would be happy for them had the build up been handled differently. It's just that the writing up to that point seemed to have been indicating something more complicated, something more nuanced, and something that was going to forge the development of these 3 characters in ways that was sure to have more emotional churn and conflict. By the end of it, I just couldn't help but to have this feeling of loss and disappointment that something I had been eagerly awaiting reading about, and had been teased not just by the writing, but by the author in comments to fans just didn't materialize the way it had been set up. You could have taken the attractions and interactions between Shallan and Kaladin and completely removed them from the book, and it would have had absolutely zero impact on where they ended up in their own personal narratives, and their own understanding of each other and their interpersonal relationships with others. I just have this overwhelming question of why? Why was it written this way? To what purpose did it serve? It just feels hollow. I kept reading this book, eagerly turning the pages and enjoying the vast narrative that was unfolding, but always at the back of my mind, there was this nagging voice that would always say "maybe the next Shallan chapter, we'll see that connection again, maybe when Kaladin has a chance to pause and think, we'll see more of what was hinted and teased at, the next chapter, the next chapter, the next chapter. And it just never came, not really. And then I came across it, the final confirmation of the scuttling of the S.S. Shalladin: Kaladin blew it here, and he didn't even know it, didn't even realize. His overwhelming attitude: not empathy, but one of "how can I be more like you, so that I can hide from my own pain. He was done here, it was all over, I knew. Almost to the end of the book, and finally one scene to see them interact in a positive and healthy way that didn't involve barbs, jokes, quirks, or other people there to witness, and it was this. Oh well, journey before destination right? It was fun doing the theorizing and debating while it lasted, but I'm pretty convinced that you have about as much chance of dredging that dead ship up as you do the Titanic. It's sad, I'm probably never going to be able to read the chasm scene from WoR again.

Just logging in to say that I have never been more afraid about a death than when the bridgemen started remarking on Teft's absence during one of the earlier Part 2 chapters. I also have never found myself relieved that it was "just" a drug problem, for the alternative my mind was cooking up was so much worse. Damnation Part 2 has been so good. A few more chapters left to go. Also, short term prediction, Shallan is going to convince Kaladin to let her tag along to Thaylenna...

Update on my POST from earlier: I went back to the bookstore and actually talked with the owner. She was quite amused at my determination to read this book ASAP, and said that if I wanted to pre-purchase the book now and read it on site, then she'd have no issues with that. I paid for it. I HELD IT IN MY HANDS. I gloried over the cover, the end pages. I took a peek at some of the artwork further in the book. Then it happened. My wife texted me. Told me that she and my daughter were done playing at the kids play area (the bookstore is at a local mall), and that it was time to leave. I handed the book back over, and took my receipt, telling the owner that I would be back... ...That was Saturday morning, and several household chores, a couple of family outings, a meeting with a realtor, dinner with friends, yard-work, and a few episodes of Stranger Things later and I STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GO BACK!!! AAAARGHH. Why did I do this to myself? I don't know what would have been worse, knowing that I would have to wait until Tuesday like everyone else, or knowing that I COULD HAVE BEEN READING ALL WEEKEND if it hadn't been for normal life standing in the way. I am one of the ten fools and damnation is upon me. I'm going to try and go after work tomorrow, skipping the gym. Maybe they'll take pity on me at the store and let me take my copy home when I leave...

Well, this has gotta be what Brandon meant when he said that a character having a flashback book in the future was no guarantee of their survival to said book. Interesting revelations here. Makes me wonder at what being "Fused" means for the Listener, as clearly I think neither Venli or her once-mate are. I gotta imagine that it is very unlike what we see between a proto-radiant and their spren. Can't wait to find out more. On a side note, I was pondering making Oathbringer the first book that I would listen to on audio, just so I could enjoy it on my commute. But after having listened to this sample, I just can't get on board with the medium. I'm sure the voice talent was doing wonderfully as far as these things go, but I could not get over the switching between voices of the same person. Took me right out of it. It's just not for me. I'm glad that they released this sample, though, so that I could figure that out before dropping money on it. to each their own.

After a failed attempt to get a copy early from my nearest small time bookstore (due to them catching the mistake at the register), I have devised a new strategy in order to be able to start reading Oathbringer this weekend. This strategy operates on the assumption that the only impediment is that the book CANNOT leave the store until opening on 11/14 With this in mind, I'll be going back to the store to offer whatever supervisor is available the following proposition: 1. I will reserve and pre-pay for a copy of my book 2. I will "check out" the book from them with my wallet, that they will keep until I return the book to the customer service desk 3. I will sit quietly in their comfy reading area and read my book, never taking the copy outside the store. 4. When I am done for the day, I will return my book to their safe keeping, take my wallet, and leave. 5. Come back the next business day and repeat After reading that storming post on TOR with the Beta reader chapter reactions, I just can't wait until Tuesday without TRYING to do something. Wish me luck...

I'm personally in agreement with your assessment of the treatment and writing of Adolin in Oathbringer thus far. Previous books have created a character who is integral to the story, and whose actions have had, and presumably would continue to have impact on the plot for each of the books. Whether Brandon intended to write him this way or not, the fact remains that Adolin wasn't written as just an ancillary character, and as such demands a well written and satisfying arc to resolve what has been presented. Coming from someone who doesn't hold Adolin very high on my top character list, even I can see that this is a problem if the current trend for Adolin's writing continues as is throughout OB. I hope your wrong, I want to believe you are wrong, because if you are not, then I would be forced to consider this to be the first major writing mistake for this series.

Before reading this weeks chapters, I was pretty convinced that Kaladin would be disappearing from the narrative with a cliffhanger that had him prisoner to the Parshendi. Now that it is revealed that he is back in Urithuru, I'm now back in a place where I feel it going either direction (Shallan or Kaladin). To help me decide, I'm trying to look for some ways that Brandon might use to make the narrative more interesting for us as readers. As mentioned by others here, I think Shallan being absent for this section has some interesting narrative potential, like seeing her only as other people see her, and getting a sense of just how real or fake her personas seem to the various other characters. How much fun would it be for us readers, if we watch our POV characters interact with new minor characters, and always wondering or trying to guess: could that have been Shallan in disguise? Also, I think a first interaction scene between Kalladin and Veil would be way more interesting from Kaladin's POV, than from Shallan's. Will he buy the illusion? Will he see through it? Will he kind of feel a familiarity with her, but not understand where it's coming from? Will he find himself becoming attracted to Veil? I dunno, just some thoughts, gotta get back to work now.

You're not alone. Something has seemed...off to me about the writing in Oathbringer so far. I can't really put my finger on what it is. I don't know if it is the serialized format or something else. Sometimes the actions of many of our actors seems to not fit the characterizations that have been developed for them in the books so far. Kaladin sometimes doesn't feel like Kaladin to me. Shallan too. It feels like the subtlety in their writing has disappeared and has been replaced by exaggerations of the most identifiable personality traits. Actually, Adolin seems to be the most consistent to me with regards to the previous books, and that's probably because we just haven't spent as much time in his POV. I'm hoping that this is a pacing issue that is a combination of the serialized format, and the need to get a lot of "beat points" out during this first book. I also might just be falling victim to my own high expectations from anticipating this book for so long. Anyway, my own bit of theory crafting for this set of chapters involves Kaladin and his inevitable arrival at the location where the Listeners are being gathered. So far, Kaladin, and us as readers, are currently lulled into the security of "knowing" that at any time, he's going to be able to fly out of this mess when things really start to hit the fan. I don't think this meetup is going to go well for Kaladin, and I think Book 1 is going to end with a major cliff hanger for him with the discovery that he indeed has been lead into a trap, and the voidspren has several contingency plans for dealing with his Nahel bond. I think Kaladin is the secondary main character that is entirely missing from the Book 2 outline, and that when we finally return to him after a period of time, we're going to see what his reintroduction to captivity has done.

While it is true that the books have alluded to the active disagreement and potential political conflict between the two groups of spren known as Honorspren and Cryptics, I think "can't stand each other" is a little strong, given that the individual spren Syl and Pattern have never met. Likely, I think that at worst Syl would find Pattern boring, or not fun (because he wouldn't give in to her taunts and pranks, much like Rock). I also think it would be pretty crummy to not be able to explore romantic feelings for someone simply because your spren's..."sprace?" didn't get along. Also, I would point out (as I have done many times in previous shipping threads with @maxal) the biggest argument in favor of Shalladin is that they are such polar opposites in many respects. Normally on its own, that wouldn't be enough to be convincing, but when Brandon spends a good paragraph in the chasm scene having Shallan stating her opinion that the greatest masterpieces in art are study of contrasts, it seems pretty apparent that that is where Brandon's thoughts on Shalladin progression lay. The spren conflict only adds to that I think.

Oh, that's a great thought, I like that interpretation.

Um, I don't think that is necessarily the case. At least not from my understanding of the Transportation surge: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Surgebinding#Transportation Not saying you are wrong, just that we haven't seen anything that indicates that transportation does more than allow one to transport things instantaneously from one location to another. I also think that being a telekinetic would make the Elsecallers grossly overpowered compared to other orders, so that also convinces me that the Transportation surge is likely to be more limited. Then again, who knows. Still, the floating stairs, and the floating Jasnah (if intentional on Michael's part), seem to indicate that our understanding of the current Elsecaller powers are still incomplete. Or perhaps the floating stairs and herself is from some other source (other than surgebinding), we'll have to see...

Love the cover, and now the countdown to November is going to take even longer, nooooooo. Anyway, something I noticed that bugs me about the cover just a bit: why is Jasnah floating, do you think? There are what appear to be conjured stairs beneath her, but she doesn't even seem to be standing on those either. I did not think that the "transformation" and "transportation" surges would have granted her abilities tied to "gravitation" and Windrunner powers. At first I thought perhaps she was in Shadesmar, but reading the full Tor article descriptions from Michael confirms she is in RW Roshar. Thoughts anyone? Edit: I should really make sure to read all comments before posting, as this question has already been noted and asked. Sorry

I'm sorry, but I just can't be excited about this news in any way. I am very proud and happy that Brandon's work is getting the kind of recognition that would open up such an opportunity for him, but I just see this as yet another future letdown. Much like Dresden, Harry Potter, Sword of Shannara, Sword of Truth, and the big one: GoT before it, this is just another opportunity in which I get to see some of the story plots and characters, and worlds that I have grown to love get ruined by a bunch of Executives and screenwriters looking to make the biggest ROI by dumbing down the material to the lowest common denominator for consumption by the masses. These kinds of stories rarely work being translated to the screen, and the odds are stacked against a Cosmere story being any different. Call me a snobbish book purist, call me overly pessimistic, and perhaps I am both those things, but the only positive thing I see coming from this is that Brandon gets several big checks and he and his family never have to worry about money again. As for his stories being entrusted to the hands of people who I know will have goals and motivations very different from his own, all I can say is I hope he looks to the history of other authors before him, and he understands just what it will mean to have his works turned into something he may never have intended.

So I agree that a live action adaptation of SA would more likely than not be a disappointment, and I base this off of the train wreck that is GoT when compared to ASoIaF. Bad actors favored for their looks over talent, special effects that can't quite keep up with what we see in our imaginations and end up looking bad, writing teams taking liberties with good source material just so they can feed their ego and "make it their own". All these things are not what I want for SA or any of Brandon's works. An animated (whether anime or traditional) adaptation would be a better option over live action, but still suffer from some of the limitations above. I think I'd rather see a graphic novel adaption. Plus, much of the success of GoT and their ability to pull funding is it's larger audience appeal, which I just don't think you can get from a cartoon anything. The most marketable and bankable audience for a cartoon version would be children, and can you imagine this story adapted for that demographic? Please no... Coming back to the funding question, and whether or not there are campaigns started for crowd sourcing such an animated endeavor, I'm pretty confident you won't find any. Granted, I haven't looked, but the biggest problem is getting investors for a project that doesn't even have approval from the work's owner to proceed if the funding goal was reached. Brandon owns the rights to the story, and those rights are very valuable and won't be sold or given away prior to any money changing hands. Just my two cents