Anyone else not really like the metallic arts?

[Eternal Khol he/him]

To specify a little more on the title, ive have not been able to really get into MB Era 2. The transition to a new cast of characters and practically new world definitely throws me off but i think the majority of it is my lack of care for the metallic arts... in the current era. 

I mean theres nothing wrong with the metallic arts, theyre real solid magic systems that have the groundwork to do great things in the future of the Cosmere.... But there just isnt any real exitement when i think of them.

 

When i think of like... any other magic system i think of fantastical feats, mysticism, obvious displays of the magic(soulcasting, aon dor), vibrancy(breath), etc..

And when i think of the Metallic Arts im just like "oh.... thats practical... has some real practical applications. Pushing metal through the air... yeah..."

Like i dont even really see Allomancy&Feruchemy as magic systems anymore.at this point theyre just tools like a wrench. Granted they are the tools that will build/power FTL spaceships eventually, but still just tools.

From what we've already seen to what Brandon has told us/hinted about what future applications of the magic will be like to what weve theorized on... it just feels like there isnt a whole lot of mystery or intrique left in the Metallic Arts.

I think also a big part is that era 2 maybe feels a little too "earth-like" and "current" for me and the magic just seems wrong in a more industrialized, technological, up-to-date society.

Should i just push through it and read them anyway? Is the story/characters of era 2 worth it regardless of not liking the magic?

Edited October 30, 2021 by Eternal Khol
Edits

[SeaDragonet he/him]

2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

To specify a little more on the title, ive have not been able to really get into MB Era 2. The transition to a new cast of characters and practically new world definitely throws me off but i think the majority of it is my lack of care for the metallic arts... in the current era. 

This is prolly because the metallic arts are just less in MBE2. It has just died down through the generations.

2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

From what we've already seen to what Brandon has told us/hinted about what future applications of the magic will be like to what weve theorized on... it just feels like there isnt a whole lot of mystery or intrique left in the Metallic Arts.

Read it, there is still PLENTY of mystery in MBE2

(BOM spoiler)

Spoiler

I am referring to ettmetal.

 

2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Should i just push through it and read them anyway? Is the story/characters of era 2 worth it regardless of not liking the magic?

IMO you should. The characters are well written, the plot engaging, all in all just a good book. While the magic is less, there is still plenty, and these limitations make it quite interesting.

Here is someone who shares your opinion, slight spoiler warning

Spoiler

 

I promise it gets better in the second and third books. The first one more sets the scene for the second 2. Definitely less action heavy, but still good imo.

Edited October 30, 2021 by SeaDragonet
to add in another bit so that i do not double post

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

I think also a big part is that era 2 maybe feels a little too "earth-like" and "current" for me and the magic just seems wrong in a more industrialized, technological, up-to-date society.

Should i just push through it and read them anyway? Is the story/characters of era 2 worth it regardless of not liking the magic?

Those were a lot of my concerns before I read AoL, if you push through those problems are resolved, and we eventually see some more fantastical stuff.

[Raphaborn]

Symphathy (KKC) is one of the best magical systems of all, and is basically more of a tool than conventional esotericism. It always depends on how the author writes things, and Mistborn has someone who always excels in magical systems.
And, well, reading Era 2 it's all apparent. You don't know much about the Metallic Arts, I can assure you that.

[Honorless he/him]

Yeah, Alloy of Law kinda sucks. Era 2 is really difficult to get into after the grandeur of stuff like the original Mistborn trilogy, Stormlight and the other stories. It only started liking it upon rereads. It's... just too different in flavour from the rest of the Cosmere.

Ah, the Metallic Arts, I remember when I first put The Final Empire in my to-read list, I'd thought that they literally ate metal, as in metal instead of food. Yeah, it's kind of hmm in comparison to the rest of the magics. Very input this, to get this. That can take away from the wonder of magic. Also after reading TZKS which has a magic system that actually uses the chemical elements and chemistry in one of its... subcategories of powers, I just can't help but compare the two and feel like TZKS did it better for more scientific magics. But the Metallic Arts are still fascinating enough. I think they're supposed to come off as less mystical. And there's a lot to uncover with the magics and its interactions with other magics. The books are short, push through till Bands of Mourning! That one makes the rest of series worth reading. And once you kinda lose the expectations, the series actually makes for a decent lighthearted reread.

[StanLemon]

Personally I just don't get other people's expectations of Era 2. It's a fairly logical progression from Era 1, and it's built more like urban fantasy than high fantasy. Something I was expecting from the moment I started reading it with the wild west setup of the first chapter. Those typically don't have, or at least don't start with, the grand scale of high fantasy works. 

I also find the Metallic Arts to be far and away the most interesting of Brandon's magic systems. There is just enough vagueness for mystery and surprise but mostly being consistent. The fun part is all the ways clever characters use it in spite of its limitations, and thinking about interesting implications of what each thing can do.

[HSuperLee]

Honestly, I think part of the thing is that the mysticism that is associated with Allomancy in Era 1 has really become more apart of Feruchemy in Era 2. We didn't really see a ton of Feruchemy in Era 1, and I think Sanderson's decision to make two of the main characters of Era 2 twinborn is very intentional in making Feruchemy part of more viewpoint chapters and getting the audience more familiar with it, and Era 1 is all about presenting Allomancy. So yeah, Allomancy feels less mystical, but the mysticism hasn't gone away, its just shifted focus.

I guess this means Era 3 will have Hemalurgy as the main mystical element.

[AerionBFII he/him]

I feel like I am in the minority in preferring Mistborn era 2 to Mistborn era 1.
 

[SeaDragonet he/him]

31 minutes ago, AerionBFII said:

I feel like I am in the minority in preferring Mistborn era 2 to Mistborn era 1.
 

Same here. BOM

Spoiler

Ettmetal and SH

Spoiler

cognitive shadows

are really cool, and offer a lot of options. I kinda want to theorize some ettmetal creations now...

 

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, AerionBFII said:

I feel like I am in the minority in preferring Mistborn era 2 to Mistborn era 1.
 

I also prefer Era 2

[Raphaborn]

Considering only setting and magic, it's very difficult to prefer Era 1. Except you really really prefer technology "closer to medieval".

[Tglassy]

I love Era 2.  I wrote this in the other thread that was linked above, but I love the magic system, I love the interplay with magic and technology, I love the characters.  Wax is my favorite Cosmere Protagonist, Wayne is my favorite side character and by the end I even like Steris.  They should totally have Steris meet Jasnah.  That would be delightful.  Every time I go through the Cosmere books, which is at least once a year, I just can't wait to get to Mistborn Era 2.  

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I sort of think that most magic systems start to lose a bit of that umph as technology advances as well.  For the metallic arts (and more specifically allomancy) it feels like even more of a hit because the whole genetic dilution of the magic potency on top of the technological advancements.  

I think era 2 offers a cool look at the in-between of op magic and op technology.  Makes me wonder how impacted other systems will be when they see the further advancements in their own worlds.  But I imagine every era where technology starts evolving into more modern times will have a large impact on all of the systems.  

I know the mistborn vs radiant battle simulation has been beaten down a billion times and maybe this isn't a popular opinion... but if you plucked down a scadrial human born with no powers at all, gave him a couple medallions and a few guns in the middle of Roshar he would turn a few heads... even from plate clad knights.  Get a steel medallion and a 45-70 and go to work.  

The progression of technology will dilute the mysticism that magic systems provide the story of any planet.  Thankfully scadrial still has a ton more secrets for readers to learn even if they aren't directly tied to the metallic arts.  I just enjoy the almost steampunk feel of the era 2 books and think it is fun to see the characters cope with the nearly unlimited potential of power combinations.  We haven't even started to dig into the spiritual feruchemy metals... I want to see F chromium on screen for a bit and compare it to atium already. 

[Frustration]

23 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I sort of think that most magic systems start to lose a bit of that umph as technology advances as well.  For the metallic arts (and more specifically allomancy) it feels like even more of a hit because the whole genetic dilution of the magic potency on top of the technological advancements.  

I think era 2 offers a cool look at the in-between of op magic and op technology.  Makes me wonder how impacted other systems will be when they see the further advancements in their own worlds.  But I imagine every era where technology starts evolving into more modern times will have a large impact on all of the systems.  

I know the mistborn vs radiant battle simulation has been beaten down a billion times and maybe this isn't a popular opinion... but if you plucked down a scadrial human born with no powers at all, gave him a couple medallions and a few guns in the middle of Roshar he would turn a few heads... even from plate clad knights.  Get a steel medallion and a 45-70 and go to work.  

The progression of technology will dilute the mysticism that magic systems provide the story of any planet.  Thankfully scadrial still has a ton more secrets for readers to learn even if they aren't directly tied to the metallic arts.  I just enjoy the almost steampunk feel of the era 2 books and think it is fun to see the characters cope with the nearly unlimited potential of power combinations.  We haven't even started to dig into the spiritual feruchemy metals... I want to see F chromium on screen for a bit and compare it to atium already. 

SA

Spoiler

Roshar will develop Fabrials rather than earth-tech, so they will likely still feel mystical.

 

[StanLemon]

11 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I want to see F chromium on screen for a bit and compare it to atium already. 

I don't think it will show visions like Atium considering it can be misidentified as luck. I've always imagined it more like the luck potion from Harry Potter. A sense of knowing what you need to do. I believe this is supported by the fact that Brandon has compared Hoid's ability to know when and where he needs to be to Feruchemy 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

9 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I don't think it will show visions like Atium considering it can be misidentified as luck. I've always imagined it more like the luck potion from Harry Potter. A sense of knowing what you need to do. I believe this is supported by the fact that Brandon has compared Hoid's ability to know when and where he needs to be to Feruchemy 

I wonder how that would work against other arts and just how potent it is.  

I assume seeing into the future to avoid an attack still requires having enough reation time to make it out alive. 

Atium allows you to see another person's future and process what that means so that you can react with inhuman speed.  Electrum allows you to see your own futures but seeing your own future changes your future so you just see a bunch of shadows and can't truly comprehend them all.  I guess when your opposition has insane amounts of speed they could move faster than what atium will allow a person to react to.   Electrum again is so difficult to comprehend that I imagine opponents speed would be able to surpass it as well.  

For chromium feruchemy though, without it allowing you to directly see into the future, would speed increases in your opposition ever get great enough for you to naturally be in the right place at the right time?  Also how much do you think thought plays into chromiums ability to work.  If you think about making that decision to move would that change the outcome?  Or do you have to be almost thoughtless in your moves like the scene when Vin tried to consciously make an unconscious decision?  

[Mage he/him]

I probably am not qualified to answer on whether to push through era 2, because I love the metallic arts, and I love how they interact with technology in Wax and Wayne's books.

Independent from the magic, I think the characters are amazing. Wayne is so complicated, you want to love him but also hate some of his decisions and actions. Wax's emotionally powerful arc about getting over Lessie and, (Shadows spoilers)

Spoiler

Forgiving Harmony

My recommendation is to push through and it will be worth it, but that is coming from someone who is biased toward era 2. (Steris is my spirit animal)

[Friendshipspren he/him]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:29 PM, Honorless said:

Yeah, Alloy of Law kinda sucks. Era 2 is really difficult to get into after the grandeur of stuff like the original Mistborn trilogy, Stormlight and the other stories. It only started liking it upon rereads. It's... just too different in flavour from the rest of the Cosmere.

Ah, the Metallic Arts, I remember when I first put The Final Empire in my to-read list, I'd thought that they literally ate metal, as in metal instead of food. Yeah, it's kind of hmm in comparison to the rest of the magics. Very input this, to get this. That can take away from the wonder of magic. Also after reading TZKS which has a magic system that actually uses the chemical elements and chemistry in one of its... subcategories of powers, I just can't help but compare the two and feel like TZKS did it better for more scientific magics. But the Metallic Arts are still fascinating enough. I think they're supposed to come off as less mystical. And there's a lot to uncover with the magics and its interactions with other magics. The books are short, push through till Bands of Mourning! That one makes the rest of series worth reading. And once you kinda lose the expectations, the series actually makes for a decent lighthearted reread.

Wuttttt??????

I loved era 2. I was put off at first but that was due to the lack of grimdark that was thick in era 1. Once I got over it , hotdamn it was amazing. And by the end ....ooof oooof oooooof. I loved SoS ,AoL and BoM equally. 

And idk man. I still like metallic arts over tzks. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

I have to say, in my opinion, the Metallic arts are one of the best magic systems.

I love how it's simple enough to comprehend, but has enough complexity that you can come up with lost of ways to use it. Just check out the Cosmere Q&A; you'll find quite a few ideas I and others have come up with that might change your mind  

But of course, I like the magic system mostly because I can try to expect what could be done, and what could happen, and how certain combinations of abilities can be exploited, which isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Naomi she/her]

On 10/31/2021 at 0:13 AM, Eternal Khol said:

Should i just push through it and read them anyway? Is the story/characters of era 2 worth it regardless of not liking the magic?

I think the reason you might not like the magic is that over time it has become less fantastical. The world has advanced and Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities have been significantly weakened. 

Alloy of Law is probably my least favourite Brandon Sanderson book so far but I did enjoy both shadow of Self and Band of Mourning so I do think you should continue reading if you haven't already. (If you have already read the next two books, please tell me what you think.)

Edited February 8, 2022 by Naomi

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

On 11/3/2021 at 0:03 PM, StanLemon said:

I don't think it will show visions like Atium considering it can be misidentified as luck. I've always imagined it more like the luck potion from Harry Potter. A sense of knowing what you need to do. I believe this is supported by the fact that Brandon has compared Hoid's ability to know when and where he needs to be to Feruchemy 

I’ve always thought F Chromium will act like Mat’s ‘luck’.