Condensation she/her Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Esooa said: TJ Still think he's a wolf EDIT: I'm gonna work on sorting more of the PL tomorrow probably, but I don't even know how to read previous days tbh. Would be nice if someone linked them or whatever They're in the original post.
Quivil Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Esooa Their behavior is unexpected, for someone with a good case against them.
Mat he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 I hate that this is happening to the person I have the strongest gut village for lol. I feel like this game wants me to have the hardest time solving possible. But I guess since that read is 100% gut, and I really don't have any actual village evidence for it, this makes more sense to me. I need to scrap my reads list completely and start over, I think...
Squirrelwatcher he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 I'm awake Gonna be rereading PMs 10 hours ago, Esooa said: You can read our messages again, and say you were wrong
Illwei Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Riddle me this why would esooa rb squirrel? Like. As evil? I dont recall squirrel ever softing anything in thread. @Squirrelwatcherdid you claim to esooa?
Squirrelwatcher he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 I claimed location, but not role. The thing is that I told esooa that I was asking for her location on behalf of the alignment scanner - Esooa could have thought that I actually was the alignment scanner pretending not to be (if that makes sense - it's kind of like how when people say "asking for a friend" they could really just be asking for themself)
Condensation she/her Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Oh, yeah, I've done that. It was pretty epic - I said that someone who had this super important role had reached out to me and let me know when it was really me and then the other one actually reached out to me and so I got to pretend like there was another person who I was relaying messages with. And in thread was totally epic - everyone was like "We can't kill Connie, she knows both of these people!" and I was super trusted. Those are my favourite games. 'Cause then I can act in a totally different way than I usually would, and people trust me so I don't have to worry, and it's so amazing having a secret. But anyway... yeah, that is a thing people do, I could see that.
Esooa Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Esooa said: I'm gonna work on sorting more of the PL tomorrow probably, but I don't even know how to read previous days tbh. Would be nice if someone linked them or whatever This was a lie I remembered idc EDIT: Oh cool Squirrel is still going on about irrelevant stuff that's the cause of why I do not care at all You asked for my location I told you it without hesitation I told you I do not need to know yours for any reason You told me anyways If you get a town killed for this, then, absolutely lmao ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ am done Edited September 10, 2021 by Esooa
Condensation she/her Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Esooa said: This was a lie I remembered idc EDIT: Oh cool Squirrel is still going on about irrelevant stuff that's the cause of why I do not care at all You asked for my location I told you it without hesitation I told you I do not need to know yours for any reason You told me anyways If you get a town killed for this, then, absolutely lmao ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ am done So then who do you think role-blocked Squirrel? If you say it wasn't you, provide an alternative, please.
Condensation she/her Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 How would the mafia know that? Squirrel said they didn't tell anyone but you. And if it were the mafia, why wouldn't they just kill Squirrel?
Mat he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Condensation said: How would the mafia know that? Squirrel said they didn't tell anyone but you. And if it were the mafia, why wouldn't they just kill Squirrel? The thing with the kill though is they have to scan for location, so unless something weird happens the elims already should know who dies tomorrow night
Squirrelwatcher he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Esooa need more time to think something's off here
Condensation she/her Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said: The thing with the kill though is they have to scan for location, so unless something weird happens the elims already should know who dies tomorrow night Right... so they scanned someone N1, then killed that person N2 and scanned another person, and that person will die tonight, right? But if the mafia were the ones to block Squirrel, they would have to have scanned Squirrel N1 or have had a person claim to them. And we know Squirrel claimed to Esooa. I just think it would make sense, unless a ) Squirrel is lying about being blocked(or about claiming location) or b ) one of the two killed last night claimed to one of the elims, which I think is unlikely, given that they're both experienced players. Although I could be totally wrong and it's some random explanation that I wouldn't guess. Does that make any sense at all? (If no, sorry - trying to multitask.)
Dalinar Kholin Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 Esooa is currently located at the Hastings Tenament. I am currently located at the Elariel Tenament. Devotary of Spontaneity.
Squirrelwatcher he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) uh wait what the why --- edit: the above post is so random I don't what to make of it Edited September 10, 2021 by Squirrelwatcher
Mat he/him Posted September 10, 2021 Posted September 10, 2021 38 minutes ago, Dalinar Kholin said: Esooa is currently located at the Hastings Tenament. I am currently located at the Elariel Tenament. Devotary of Spontaneity. How do you know and why is that relevant? 1
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 A second person votes for me without any explanation. Mat at least mentioned that he doesn't like my votes, which I'm not sure what specifically the problem is other than that he had Archer as null+ to light village as of D2. 2 hours ago, Condensation said: b ) one of the two killed last night claimed to one of the elims, which I think is unlikely, given that they're both experienced players. Well Elkanah definitely claimed a location to multiple people and apparently didn't switch up which one he claimed every time, so it's not impossible that he claimed an accurate location to an elim and got killed for it. That would require a Coinshot to have learned Kas's location and decided to kill him. And then the elims scanning Squirrel just to roleblock him would still be weird.
|TJ| he/him Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 Sorry, was a bit busy for the last couple of days and I'm catching up rn - Alright, it's reasonable to assume that Kas and his paranoia would never have allowed him claim his location to anyone else, and hence Kas was location scanned by the elims N1 (this is assuming Kas wasn't Coinshot but... I reaaally don't think any Village Coinshot would have targeted Kas as early as N2 or took a shot in the dark since there's no way they'd know his identity). This also makes sense because Kas is arguably the best villager and he'd be the optimal/best target for location scan in N2 for them. If the elims do not have any more location, then they're probably going to kill their N2 location scan which means they will not push on the person they scanned last night. Something to observe. Quote Initial read on TJ is bad because we dont have a PM >:(. What are you hiding tj? I feel like he should know how i am in PMs when village and i donno how i feel about him not making one You stop dodging my in-thread questions first :P. Quote Mat town read feels kinda out of the blue though, correct me if I'm wrong. @Esooa, I have read Mat as village from the first relevant post I've made here, where I mentioned I agree that Archer - Mat are v-v. Quote Illwei read is decently consensus but if she's a wolf I'm unsuure? if they can be partnered. I wouldn't say no. I don't know how often wolves bus here Depends on the elim team composition tbh, but bussing is v v rare in D1. Quote I think it's weird in his post on the previous page, how he says he would have expected to town read someone by now, but then he votes someone else, and asks someone else a question... doesn't engage with the person who he thinks he should be town reading, but isn't I assume you're talking about this statement : Quote Chantara and Kas are not null, shame I'd expect to be village reading Kas by now smh :P. The 'not null' part is a typo smh, I'm just reading this now. I meant Chantara and Kas ARE null. So, obviously just because I'm not village reading them, I'm not gonna vote for them as they're null. And that was my last post before this, so not sure what you mean by 'doesn't engage with person who he thinks he should be town reading'. I'm voted for Illwei because I suspected her, and asked her why she was voting for Mat, because she didn't give any. Feel like I haven't properly explained my main reason for the elim read on Illwei. She recalled an example in which she felt Mat was an elim and she was village, but it was actually the other way around. People tend to recall similar stuff when they're in similar situations, so when Illwei falsely remembered Mat was elim in that example when it was actually her, I feel like she remembered it in the first place because she's an elim now too. Illwei Quote Edit: for future reference, Devo, Chantara, Mat, Essoa and myself are the ones hanging around near rollover. And Illwei, who I'm PMing with right now @Archer, I assume you coordinated with Illwei in PMs to remove Mint? Or else your vote here doesn't make sense as it would have made it 2-2-2 without the knowledge of where Illwei's vote would go. This vote is weird because not 4 minutes ago, you voted for Illwei and then you suddenly think Illwe is very likely village. This is not exactly elim behavior unless it was like you decided to bus and then had a change of mind. But weird nonetheless. 20 hours ago, Esooa said: TJ Still think he's a wolf Do you have any other suspects? I haven't seen you mention anyone else for the past 2 cycles, and not even mentioning other elim reads is elimy behavior like you don't have to make up reasons for reading others as evil when you pretend to have tunneled on a sole suspect. You may turn around and tell me I'm doing the same thing, but I'm have other elim suspects too. I guess someone alignment scanned Devo? Cause that's two votes without a reason. If so, let us know, cause the only reason I've got to suspect Devo is that Illwei-protecting vote. Village - Dalinar, Connie, Mat, Squirrel, Archer down from strong village to mild village. Kinda paranoid about one of Archer/Mat being elim but eh Evil - Illwei, Devotary, Chantara (not with Illwei) About Esooa, now that we know her location, alignment scanner (or Coinshot :P) can target her and check if she's telling the truth but I wouldn't put too much weight into the fact that she didn't ask for Squirrel's location, because it seems like Squirrel proposed a trade and if she revealed her location, Squirrel would have felt obligated to reveal his too, as he was the one who proposed the trade. Elims are more likely to do that than directly ask for the info. Also, Elkanah was NOT in Hastings in N1, if that helps anyone. 1
Archer he/him Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 Just a general note, if anyone wants to claim coinshot or Tineye, because of how I’ve structured my approach this game, if you claim and give us an unexpected village read, it’d be very helpful. It’s a bit of a risk, but I’m assuming v!Tani because they didn’t vote yesterday. I feel like their teammates would encourage them to vote for any villager D2 when they showed up. Their not voting would seem to indicate little investment in the game. V!Illwei infodumped to me in our PM late D2. TJ is right, I was talking to them and trying to convince them to move their vote, but they were actually sticking to their guns in such a way that I came to decide they were evil and voted for them. At almost the same time, Illwei told me some information, because at that point they were a kill possibility (needed a single defection from my train, and Devo was around to do it potentially. That’s my assumption of their thinking, anyway. No one trusts a successful wagon late in the day). I then village read them for it and switched, and Illwei I guess decided I was villagey too and followed me. My village read of them stands, and it’s buttressed by the fact that they can only be teammates with Tani (village reading for not voting), Steeldancer (village reading for responses to Mat’s pressure), Dalinar (included Devo and TUO in their claim scheme, so incompatible with them, and also the whole gambit-loving vibe is villagey) and TUO, Devo, and Esooa. As the last two are exe candidates today with more to suspect them for, I see no reason not to vote for one of them instead. V!Mat is also running low on possible connections. Illwei has gone after them, they’ve gone after TUO and Steeldancer, Dalinar included them in their scheme and Tani didn’t vote. Their possible teammates one of Esooa/Squirrel, Chantara, Devo and TJ. That’s actually a decent group, but either requires you to evil read TJ or Chantara, or again makes voting Devo or Esooa make sense. V!Steeldancer continues to get village cred for their response to Mat’s pressure. I also have V!Dalinar in my trusts because they’re eccentric. They’re leaning into that element of their play, so it could be a ploy, but it feels like genuine roguish behaviour. V!Squirrel is risking their reputation by setting Esooa up. Either Esooa is evil and they’ll be confirmed village, or they’re good, and they’ll be confirmed evil. Bussing is unlikely on D3, so I’m guessing their intentions are genuine. It makes no sense to go out on a limb like that if they’re evil. That leaves us with TUO, Chantara, Devo, TJ, and Esooa. (Again, if one of you has a conf village role, we can cross you off the list and have the whole team.) I’ll borrow Kas’ read of n!Chantara: “read on Illwei D1 seems forced and fishing for reasons. Especially eh in light of the fact that she's part of the Illwei train. Reaction to sus also seems off - I'm looking at the "yeah this will probably not convince you" post which reads a bit too defensive.” I’ve been trying to figure out if n!TUO’s reaction to Dalinar’s giving them their location was real or fake. They could have been so busy relaying the claim to the dead doc that they forgot to respond, but then, wouldn’t the dead doc encourage them to keep the conversation going? I’m kinda hoping Esooa flips evil, because TUO called out the tone of their post this round. Could be bussing, but I’ll take it at face value for now. I really don’t like n!TJ’s vote on Illwei today. He’s been on them since D1, which is vote inflexibility. If it came down to them versus someone in my trusts, I’d vote out TJ. But his posts are really game solvey, so I’d rather not tap that barrel yet. I’m fairly sure D1 was v-v, so I believe e!Devo, regardless of alignment, would have acted the way they did for the reasons they’ve said. When they showed up late D2, they gave a hedgy view of Esooa, called out Elk for dumping location names (there’s pros and cons, so NAI), and supported Mat (which is fine, but it set up exing me, so boo). Devo added to Illwei’s vote, making a viable wagon on me, a villager. It was for jumping around with my votes and offering little explanation for them, which is a bad habit I’ve gotten into recently (last three or four games, especially early on. I’m drunk on the power of stabs). But I thought people were gut village reading me by then; it feels like this vote was technically very defensible, but unreasonable if you’re actually thinking like a villager (with your heart and dartboard). Devo then went on to question Esooa about their read on me. Coupled with them answering a TJ question, this gives me a little hesitation. Elims don’t tend to challenge their teammates much. Except, Devo kept their vote on me after my e-e approach was verified by my Fancy Chart, so I still get hit job vibes. I haven’t seen a reasonable counter-explanation for the Squirrel/e!Essoa situation yet that doesn’t rely on the elims getting very lucky. I’ve long suspected that the elims have a location mover at their disposal, so she could be gone by now, and that relies on her honestly claiming, which she didn’t need to do if they were relying on the roleblock. I don’t think coinshotting her next round is a given. Plus, I dislike the vehemence of Esooa’s rebuttal, so the vote is staying there.
Esooa Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 I'm glad that archer is apparently voting the person who's every town read he agrees with and every wolf read he agrees with because apparently I reacted too strongly to someone literally lying about messages? peak ww zz
|TJ| he/him Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 Archer, I don't have the info you have on Illwei. She'd been saved from almost-death twice in two cycles and most of her votes are the ones I didn't like or on the ones I trusted. That's why she's the one I suspect the most, and disregarding info you talked about, I'm not sure why she's being village-read.
Squirrelwatcher he/him Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 Archer Here's my thought process: e!Esooa would have little incentive to roleblock me over killing me if she thought I was alignment scanner I also found her reaction to be pretty townie; at least in my experience, that level of emotion is difficult to fake In addition, I reread our PMs and she did really seem like she didn't care about if I needed her location e!Archer, on the other hand, would want to roleblock me because that way he could pin the roleblock on Esooa and potentially get Esooa misexed as a result Archer was also the one who suggested that I ask Esooa for location in the first place Furthermore, Archer also admitted to thinking that I was the alignment scanner for a while Also, Archer said in PM that he didn't quite follow my reasoning for voting Esooa but followed me anyways, which is odd since I posted essentially the same reasoning in thread than in PM Lastly, I've found Esooa to be significantly more townie in the past two in game days than Archer I'll be around til noon PST (plus checking in real quick sometime around 2 PST) if anyone wants me to explain more. I've also explained my logic a bit more in PMs to certain people; they can explain more if they want.
Archer he/him Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Esooa said: I'm glad that archer is apparently voting the person who's every town read he agrees with and every wolf read he agrees with because apparently I reacted too strongly to someone literally lying about messages? peak ww zz If they're lying, they're evil. It's a guaranteed elim flip either way. And D1 you voted Azmine and D2 you voted TJ but were the only one on him so it's inconsequential. Neither are great looks 47 minutes ago, |TJ| said: Archer, I don't have the info you have on Illwei. She'd been saved from almost-death twice in two cycles and most of her votes are the ones I didn't like or on the ones I trusted. That's why she's the one I suspect the most, and disregarding info you talked about, I'm not sure why she's being village-read. If Illwei was saved, who saved her D1? Your options are me, Steel, Esooa, and Devo. (Was there another, I can't remember.) Anyway, I'd happily vote out Devo if you prefer. She cast the saving vote, that's pretty sus if you think Illwei is evil. 26 minutes ago, Squirrelwatcher said: Archer Here's my thought process: e!Esooa would have little incentive to roleblock me over killing me if she thought I was alignment scanner I also found her reaction to be pretty townie; at least in my experience, that level of emotion is difficult to fake In addition, I reread our PMs and she did really seem like she didn't care about if I needed her location e!Archer, on the other hand, would want to roleblock me because that way he could pin the roleblock on Esooa and potentially get Esooa misexed as a result Archer was also the one who suggested that I ask Esooa for location in the first place Furthermore, Archer also admitted to thinking that I was the alignment scanner for a while Also, Archer said in PM that he didn't quite follow my reasoning for voting Esooa but followed me anyways, which is odd since I posted essentially the same reasoning in thread than in PM Lastly, I've found Esooa to be significantly more townie in the past two in game days than Archer I'll be around til noon PST (plus checking in real quick sometime around 2 PST) if anyone wants me to explain more. I've also explained my logic a bit more in PMs to certain people; they can explain more if they want. The flaw is I had no way of knowing where you were to block you. Did anyone get any locations from Elk? Is there any precedent for this, because I think it's unlikely Y'all gotta stop switching to me right at the end of cycles, I have to 180 I'm most confident in Esooa because its highly likely they got Squirrel blocked, even if he doesn't believe it. I'll switch to Devo if it means not exing me, but its a waste of the opportunity
Esooa Posted September 11, 2021 Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) Archer EDIT: kinda bored might bury archer itt I didn't wanna talk about the game more cause it's annoying but I was messaging illwei, decided to tell her all the reasons archers vote on me was bad, but then I read archers post where he's like "well I saved illwei" and it reminds me they're decently likely to be wolves together if archer is so I didn't want to just have my reasons contained in messages with illwei First of all, Archers idea that I need an explanation of how Squirrel got role blocked or why is ridiculous There's a reason I refuse to answer questions like that and it's because it's impossible to know There is conjecture, but that's all. I have no interest in giving vaugities on how it could happen, necessarily easily dismissable by the uncertainty of them due to my perspective The only important thing is *if* there's wolf motive in my actions themselves I didn't ask Squirrel for his location Squirrel offered it, and I told him I have no need of it, but I'll tell him mine My role doesn't rely on locations I then accurately gave him my location Why am I telling squirrel my location just to RB him? Of what use is that? Not only an I offering myself up to be cop checked-the opposite of wolf motivated-I don't even know at the time who the cop is I could assume it's him, yes, but I'm literally, if a wolf, freely putting myself into this wifom, with no gain, with the best case scenario being... That I role block the cop and get scum read for it? It's ridiculous I advocated for a TJ vote yesterday, it doesn't matter that I was the only one on him I still clearly had the intention to get him killed, especially when I was town reading and gave reasons for town reading the primary wagons I solved as much as TJ but Archer says TJ is solving so he doesn't want to vote him In general Archer is doing everything he can to worm his way out of excuses to not vote me So I'm going to call him a wolf And vote him And that's that Edited September 11, 2021 by Esooa
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