Unpopular Rhythm of War opinions

[Ubeka he/him]

• The beginning of the book throws way too much at the reader at once due to the weird timeskip
• As much as I love the interconnection of Cosmere stories and speculating on its effects later down the line, this book handed out bigger Cosmere connections out WAY TOO freely
• Way too many references to Dawnshard to reinforce that I haven't read the spin-off novella and should do so - I liked Dawnshard as well, yes, but it felt less like an author referencing another connected work and more like a weird salesman pitch for me to BUY DAWNSHARD TODAY
• This book has the absolute worst of Jasnah so far and dehumanizes her incredibly; her sudden romantic relationship with Wit furthermore feels unnatural and makes me downright uncomfortable
• I could empathize with Venli a bunch, surprisingly - she is not particularly likeable at most points but her self-destructive ego is apparent and understandable where it originated from
• Under the lens of this book focusing on the order of Willshapers, this book failed
• It made no sense that Kaladin could kill Lezrian so viciously and maliciously and do a straight up sith eye colour transition without penalty, when previously straying off the right path and calling onto his powers in an actual situation of trying to protect someone almost completely destroyed his Nahel bond

 

All in all still a good read and looking forward to re-reading it soon.

[Adonoliusm]

I think the Shallan and Adolin should have got more pages dedicated to them and Shadesmar as a whole

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

I think that RoW was a good book. But...it felt lacking after the massive buildup of Oathbringer, and the huge world-wide events that occurred there. And I cared about all the stuff going on because of the world building that happened in the previous two books. 

RoW, in comparison, felt a bit like a let down after what I had expected from Oathbringer. Plus, both Kaladin and Shallan, in my opinion, felt like they had regressed since the last book, and that felt a little frustrating to me. 

[Sp00ks]

On 12/18/2021 at 2:25 PM, Ubeka said:

• The beginning of the book throws way too much at the reader at once due to the weird timeskip
• As much as I love the interconnection of Cosmere stories and speculating on its effects later down the line, this book handed out bigger Cosmere connections out WAY TOO freely
• Way too many references to Dawnshard to reinforce that I haven't read the spin-off novella and should do so - I liked Dawnshard as well, yes, but it felt less like an author referencing another connected work and more like a weird salesman pitch for me to BUY DAWNSHARD TODAY
• This book has the absolute worst of Jasnah so far and dehumanizes her incredibly; her sudden romantic relationship with Wit furthermore feels unnatural and makes me downright uncomfortable
• I could empathize with Venli a bunch, surprisingly - she is not particularly likeable at most points but her self-destructive ego is apparent and understandable where it originated from
• Under the lens of this book focusing on the order of Willshapers, this book failed
• It made no sense that Kaladin could kill Lezrian so viciously and maliciously and do a straight up sith eye colour transition without penalty, when previously straying off the right path and calling onto his powers in an actual situation of trying to protect someone almost completely destroyed his Nahel bond

 

All in all still a good read and looking forward to re-reading it soon.

Pretty much agree with all of this, except maybe the last part. Kaladin  and Syl we're just completely beside themselves after seeing Moash had killed Teft. It was maybe a 2 minute span where Kaladin became a suicidal killer, it wasn't an extended sequence. Plus, Syl was unable to recall the words of the 4th ideal, so perhaps that is the repercussion 

[mentally ill]

ok but hear me out 

why do i not see enough people talking about that bit at the beginning where kaladin breaks and how he aknowleges that he shouldnt be alone and adolin drags him out to dinner?? its so realistic and the way it represents ppl with mental health problems accuratley (and doesnt just say hes sad and cries) is just so amazing. It even adresses the people who have mental health problems, the people who say to just be happy and the people who are cool with just being there for you even if they dont know exactly what the mentally ill people need. also the conversation between veil and adolin and kal just makes me so happy and i go back and read it all the time lol

not sure if that is an unpopular opinion but it definently doesnt get talked about enough

Edited December 29, 2021 by mentally ill

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, mentally ill said:

ok but hear me out 

why do i not see enough people talking about that bit at the beginning where kaladin breaks and how he aknowleges that he shouldnt be alone and adolin drags him out to dinner?? its so realistic and the way it represents ppl with mental health problems accuratley (and doesnt just say hes sad and cries) is just so amazing. It even adresses the people who have mental health problems, the people who say to just be happy and the people who are cool with just being there for you even if they dont know exactly what the mentally ill people need. also the conversation between veil and adolin and kal just makes me so happy and i go back and read it all the time lol

not sure if that is an unpopular opinion but it definently doesnt get talked about enough

Welcome to the shard.

[Bort he/him]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:51 PM, Nahema said:

Most of what buggered me has already been listed, just one more unpopular opinion: the Fourth Bridge is a dumb tool to forcibly further the plot (yes, I know, Navani had those platforms but still) and evacuating Hearthstone as the first and only time to employ it, is stupid.

They had to have this scene, just to show the Fourth Bridge undergoing flight testing for later on.

Somewhere in the back 5, it's my belief that they will need to use the Fourth Bridge, or another flying vessel based on the science, to reach the Origin. It's much more believable to see them develop the technology in the book, rather than just suddenly say "We need to go to the Origin, fine we'll just fly there!" without any indication of flying vessels in earlier books.

[Rashekin he/him]

I think it was a much better book than Oathbringer, except for the final section (that Oathbringer's is heart attack, but this one is more relaxed and feels like a transition to the one that should have more action and epicity.)

[Pathfinder]

Rhythm of War confirmed for me that Adolin is purely a foil. I do not think that is a bad thing. I just think that is all he is. Any view point, big moment or plot of his is either to serve a main character's arc, or is another main character's arc that was stretched to include him. I have included what I believe to be all the arcs below:

 

1. Dalinar questioning his sanity. We have confirmation via WoB that Adolin was used to make this inner conflict external

2. The Tower. Kaladin and Dalinar's moment. Adolin was the means to connect the two

3. The four shardbearer duel. The lead up was to serve Dalinar's plot of uniting the highprinces and place suspicion on Amaram. The fight itself was to give Kaladin a moment to challenge Amaram and further his plot to nearly break his oath with Syl when he was locked away as result.

4. Relationship with Shallan served to develop Shallan further, give her access to the Kholins (since if Jasnah was there as originally intended, Brandon felt would suffocate Shallan's character and prevent her from growing), and provide her a vehicle (literally and figuratively) to Urithiru.

5. Killing Sadeas. The inciting moment served Dalinar's (facing now the world threat), and Shallan's (Ghostbloods) arc. 

6. Revelation about the Rift and Evi, totally and absolutely about Dalinar and his arc. Adolin was just to make it external like the insanity in WoK.

7. Infiltration of Kholinar. Kaladin's arc about his conflict with seeing enemies as people, and freezing up. Shallan's arc about facing her deeper secrets. Adolin was an excuse for them to be there. (oh yeah almost forgot, and Elhokar bonding a radiant spren and getting killed)

8. Travel through shadesmar, Kaladin's arc about working towards his fourth oath, and Shallan coming to terms with what happened in Kholinar. Adolin was there to drive them forward

 

And now we reach Rhythm of War which for me proved all of the above. All of the plots regarding Adolin, save one, were a rehash of all the plot moments he was apart of in the first three books

 

1. Adolin's issues with Dalinar is a plot rehash of Adolin's issues with Dalinar in Way of Kings with insanity. 

2. Travel through Shadesmar is a rehash of the travel through Shadesmar during Oathbringer.

3. Adolin's fight is a rehash of the four shardbearer duel during Words of Radiance

4. The time in Lasting Integrity is a rehash of the infiltration of Kholinar during Oathbringer

 

Here is the big one. Maya! The deadeye plot was originally only Shallan's. Testament was seeded since Way of Kings. That was the original deadeye plot. Maya and Adolin were never originally a thing, because in the original format, Adolin was already dead. So Adolin and Maya were to make the hints more obvious, and give him something to do along side Shallan. But Testament proves this was originally only Shallan's story all along. 

edit: Oh I forgot! There is also the WoB where Brandon was originally going to have Lift go on the trip with Shallan. So Lift would have been the individual exhibiting Edgedancerness remembering those who were forgotten, and might have been originally meant to be the one to argue in the trial. 

 

So as I said, my unpopular opinion is that Adolin is a foil character period, and for myself Rhythm of War proved it. Not here to argue over Adolin. Just stating that is my personal understanding of the character. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Pathfinder

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 29.12.2021 at 4:22 AM, mentally ill said:

ok but hear me out 

why do i not see enough people talking about that bit at the beginning where kaladin breaks and how he aknowleges that he shouldnt be alone and adolin drags him out to dinner?? its so realistic and the way it represents ppl with mental health problems accuratley (and doesnt just say hes sad and cries) is just so amazing. It even adresses the people who have mental health problems, the people who say to just be happy and the people who are cool with just being there for you even if they dont know exactly what the mentally ill people need. also the conversation between veil and adolin and kal just makes me so happy and i go back and read it all the time lol

not sure if that is an unpopular opinion but it definently doesnt get talked about enough

You are right in your assessment.

Yet your question is also easy to answer. It is at this time merely a plot device to keep Kaladin in Urithiru, where he does Die Hard - Roshar edition. It may lead to more, but it has not.

[Covacola]

On 2/5/2021 at 0:28 PM, Harbour said:

Are majority of readers fine with Teft not leaving Urithiru, then being unconscious for majority of the book, then getting killed, while also being used as the only major reason for Kaladin to be a Spider-Men for like 500-600 pages? If yes, then im not okay with this. Feels like a lazy way to make Kaladin do his plot stuff in the way Brandon wanted him to be. He effectively turned Teft into just a plot device.

Ok so THIS. I will say Teft has been one of my favorite cosmere characters since I met him so that does color my view but also Teft's entire character, as Harbour said, felt so reduced to a plot device in RoW. 

Second unpopular opinion it seems from this thread but I actually really liked Navani bonding the Sibling? "Life before death, you bastard!" was one of the highlights of this book second only to "We chose!" Which I guess might be another unpopular opinion as I really enjoyed the time spent in Lasting Integrity. Idk the worldbuilding alone was interesting to me and while this wasn't my favorite Shallan book I did enjoy it.

But going back to Teft, Navani, and all of that... Teft's death just felt, in my opinion... Unnecessary? Like? I saw it coming with how much he felt like just a part of Kaladin's development. Where before, he did seem primarily there to push Kal forward he at least still was going through his own arc... I get that it's been a year and everything but every time we got time with Teft it felt so forced. Like "yay! my character arc is over I'm all better now :)" And specifically how he died made have to physically put the book down for a few weeks. I understand the need to establish consequences and the real dangers and whatnot, but I personally felt like we already got that through Raboniel and her daughter. I felt like we already grasped how devastating this weapon will be, so using it on Teft just seemed unnecessary other than to get rid of a character we were supposed to be done with... Honestly I think I would have preferred pushed to the background treatment... 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Covacola said:

Second unpopular opinion it seems from this thread but I actually really liked Navani bonding the Sibling? "Life before death, you bastard!" was one of the highlights of this book second only to "We chose!" Which I guess might be another unpopular opinion as I really enjoyed the time spent in Lasting Integrity. Idk the worldbuilding alone was interesting to me and while this wasn't my favorite Shallan book I did enjoy it.

Yes. It was a book about exploration, in one form literally in the other scientifically. Kaladin's part did not fit. And am I the only one who could help seeing Bruce Willis doing these sneaky things climbing around?

1 hour ago, Covacola said:

But going back to Teft, Navani, and all of that... Teft's death just felt, in my opinion... Unnecessary?

Arbitrary. Somebody had to die, it was him. I think you are correct.

1 hour ago, Covacola said:

Like? I saw it coming with how much he felt like just a part of Kaladin's development. Where before, he did seem primarily there to push Kal forward he at least still was going through his own arc... I get that it's been a year and everything but every time we got time with Teft it felt so forced. Like "yay! my character arc is over I'm all better now :)" And specifically how he died made have to physically put the book down for a few weeks. I understand the need to establish consequences and the real dangers and whatnot, but I personally felt like we already got that through Raboniel and her daughter.

No, one of the "good people" had to die.

And, to be blunt and extremely unpopular, Kaladin surviving this felt forced.

 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Covacola said:

I understand the need to establish consequences and the real dangers and whatnot, but I personally felt like we already got that through Raboniel and her daughter. I felt like we already grasped how devastating this weapon will be, so using it on Teft just seemed unnecessary other than to get rid of a character we were supposed to be done with... Honestly I think I would have preferred pushed to the background treatment... 

Here we're going to have to disagree, I feel that Teft being the only one to die undersells how dangerous it is, and we should have gotten to know some other radiants and had them die to. Maybe even kill Syl, just really sell that this is it.

8 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

And, to be blunt and extremely unpopular, Kaladin surviving this felt forced.

I will second that.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Frustration

[Chinkoln he/him]

12 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

And, to be blunt and extremely unpopular, Kaladin surviving this felt forced.

Im glad it happened, I love me some Kaladin, but yes it did feel forced and extremely unlikely. He had some serious plot armor.

[TypicalShard]

On 1/7/2022 at 11:32 AM, Pathfinder said:

1. Adolin's issues with Dalinar is a plot rehash of Adolin's issues with Dalinar in Way of Kings with insanity. 

2. Travel through Shadesmar is a rehash of the travel through Shadesmar during Oathbringer.

3. Adolin's fight is a rehash of the four shardbearer duel during Words of Radiance

4. The time in Lasting Integrity is a rehash of the infiltration of Kholinar during Oathbringer

Adolin had trouble trusting his father's judgment due to what he thought was madness. Adolin's current issues are that his dad KILLLED his mother. How are these the same?

"I read your book, you killed mother."

"Adolin I have proved myself time and time again that I am not mad." These are two wholly separate issues.  

How else were they going to get to Lasting Integrity? Just teleport? Oh but I guess that's a rehash of the oath gates huh.

Adolin fight's against a group of people? The only two similarities is that Adolin gets some assistance and its against a superior force. Its like saying Kaladin fighting with a spear is a rehash of when he first used a quart staff against Jost. 

How oh how oh how is Lasting Integrity a rehash of Kholinar? They aren't even remotely similar. 

[Pathfinder]

@TypicalShard

I was presenting from the perspective on plot, showing that the points served the same function, and were either to further another's plot, or was in fact someone else's plot only folded over to include Adolin in it.

9 hours ago, TypicalShard said:

Adolin had trouble trusting his father's judgment due to what he thought was madness. Adolin's current issues are that his dad KILLLED his mother. How are these the same?

"I read your book, you killed mother."

"Adolin I have proved myself time and time again that I am not mad." These are two wholly separate issues.  

Both externalized Dalinar's self doubt, issues with his past, and overcoming his darker impulses.

9 hours ago, TypicalShard said:

How else were they going to get to Lasting Integrity? Just teleport? Oh but I guess that's a rehash of the oath gates huh.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. 

9 hours ago, TypicalShard said:

Adolin fight's against a group of people? The only two similarities is that Adolin gets some assistance and its against a superior force. Its like saying Kaladin fighting with a spear is a rehash of when he first used a quart staff against Jost. 

If you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

9 hours ago, TypicalShard said:

How oh how oh how is Lasting Integrity a rehash of Kholinar? They aren't even remotely similar. 

Again if you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

 

My post was not meant to attack Adolin. I just feel Rhythm of War confirmed my personal understanding of the character's purpose and function in the novels. You are perfectly entitled to love those story beats, and the character. I wish you well with it. 

[TypicalShard]

 

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

@TypicalShard

I was presenting from the perspective on plot, showing that the points served the same function, and were either to further another's plot, or was in fact someone else's plot only folded over to include Adolin in it.

Both externalized Dalinar's self doubt, issues with his past, and overcoming his darker impulses.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. 

If you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

Again if you read them side by side, they have almost exactly the same beats.

 

My post was not meant to attack Adolin. I just feel Rhythm of War confirmed my personal understanding of the character's purpose and function in the novels. You are perfectly entitled to love those story beats, and the character. I wish you well with it. 

I don't really care I want you to explain. 

The visions are what start Dalinar's path to becoming better than the other High Princes but they see it as Dalinar weakening. The visions make him question his and the Alethi actions on the Shattered Plains. 
Adolin's doubts center around the sanity of his father and his ability to lead their house. What Adolin want's is for Dalinar to go back to the blackthorn and lead their house. We see this when Dalinar tries to step down from being high prince. 
However throughout WoK's Adolin comes around to Dalinar's way of thinking when Sadeas betrays them. He's proud that Dalinar tried to be better than the other High Princes.

In RoW Dalinar is not self doubting, in fact he seems more sure of himself than ever before and because of this he pushes Adolin to standards he doesn't want to uphold.
Adolin's conflict in WoKs was not about his fathers dark impulses and past but about his mind. In WoKs Dalinar is never truly critical of Adolin like he is in RoW. 
Adolin's conflict in RoW is not about Dalinar's sanity but about trying to become his own person. Unlike in WoKs Adolin does not come around to his father's way of thinking. 

"He knew Dalinar had been a different man then, a man not in his right mind, betrayed, consumed by the power of one of the unmade...One could know these things without feeling them. And this wasn't something you forgave." 
"Adolin loved his father, even now with everything he had learned about what Dalinar had done. Even with that event. He loved his father." 

"I don't represent you anymore father. I'm a high prince, I represent myself." 
"I know that's the person you really are...Do not let my failings drive you to rebel against what you know is right merely because it is what I wish of you."  

"It's about you again. I cant have an opinion or make choices I'm only acting like this because of your influence."
"Maybe incredible though it may seem, there are more than two choices in life. I'm not you, but that doesn't mean I'm Taravangian. Maybe I'm my own brand of wrong." 

 

"I love him but can't yet forgive him. I think I will, with time. There's more though. Straining out relationship. He has this misguided notion that I've always been better than him. To father I'm some pristine remnant of my mother-this noble little statue who got all of her goodness and none of his coarseness. He doesn't want me to be me, or even him. He wants me to be this imagined child who was born better than he ever could be." 

The conflict in WoKs is about Dalinar, the conflict in RoW is about Adolin. 

OB: 
Unplanned arrival in shadesmar
Shallan uses magic to travel the ocean to an island.
Have to quickly move through the island as Kaladin is attracting anger spren.
Travel south because Azure knows about light houses there.  
Kaladin touches orb during highstrom and gets a vision and disagrees with the others about where they should go. 
They make arrangements with this man and secure a boat.
Arrive at Celebrant and exchange what they can and try to find another ship.
Fused track down Adolin and the gang. 
Syl reveals her identity to the crew of Honor's Path and they all flee on it from the Fused. 
Eventually Fused converge on the Honor's Path.  
They abandon the ship and travel under the ocean with Shallan's power to an island.
They make their way across this island on foot to the oath gates trying to avoid getting notived by Fused. 
When they arrive at the oath gate they find it guarded. 
They make a plan to fight the Fused. 
The plan goes poorly and Kaladin tries and fails to say an ideal. 
They get saved by an outside force, Dalinar, not within shadesmar 
They all make it back to the physical realm, their destination. 
RoW:
Planned diplomatic journey. 
They already have a method of traveling across the ocean secured.
Shallan discovers that there's a traitor among her 'court' of Lightweavers.  
They stop at the Freelands as a planned part of the journey. 
Make their way along the coast to Lasting Integrity. 
They notice the Tukari slowly following them. 
Adolin notices how badly Shallan is doing and takes her to see a Star Spren. 
Tukari turn back after a few days. 
Go back to fight with the Tukari to save Notum. 
Then continue on their way to Lasting Integrity. 
Get denied entry to their goal. 
Adolin decides to put himself up for trail to get in, the honor spren agree. 
Only Adolin, Shallan and Pattern make it to their destination. 
 

Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan with a few other sneak into the Kholinar. In Lasting Integrity no stealth is used. He goes right up to the front gate announces who he is a requests to face trail for the sins of past Radiants.

Adolin goes to someone he knows personally in Kholinar. Within Lasting Integrity there is no such person. He and Shallan are given rooms.  

Adolin has to learn honor spren trail law. Adolin doesn't go through any formal educational process during Kholinar. 

Adolin gets put on trail in Lasting Integrity, this doesn't happen in Kholinar.

Adolin portrayal within Kholinar is one of competence. In Lasting Integrity Adolin is seen as naïve and an idiot. And unlike in Kholinar his actions do not disprove anyone's opinion of him. During his trial he can barely sway any spren until Notum and Maya speak up for Adolin or defend themselves. 

Adolin and Kaladin lead the battle through the palace to get to the oath gates. Shallan 'fends' off the Unmade and they use the oath gates to escape. They fail in their mission to secure Kholinar and Elhokar dies. In Lasting Integrity Adolin succeeds in his mission to encourage more honor spren to bond people. These are different scenarios with different outcomes.

[Frustration]

26 minutes ago, TypicalShard said:

 

I don't really care I want you to explain. 

The visions are what start Dalinar's path to becoming better than the other High Princes but they see it as Dalinar weakening. The visions make him question his and the Alethi actions on the Shattered Plains. 
Adolin's doubts center around the sanity of his father and his ability to lead their house. What Adolin want's is for Dalinar to go back to the blackthorn and lead their house. We see this when Dalinar tries to step down from being high prince. 
However throughout WoK's Adolin comes around to Dalinar's way of thinking when Sadeas betrays them. He's proud that Dalinar tried to be better than the other High Princes.

In RoW Dalinar is not self doubting, in fact he seems more sure of himself than ever before and because of this he pushes Adolin to standards he doesn't want to uphold.
Adolin's conflict in WoKs was not about his fathers dark impulses and past but about his mind. In WoKs Dalinar is never truly critical of Adolin like he is in RoW. 
Adolin's conflict in RoW is not about Dalinar's sanity but about trying to become his own person. Unlike in WoKs Adolin does not come around to his father's way of thinking. 

"He knew Dalinar had been a different man then, a man not in his right mind, betrayed, consumed by the power of one of the unmade...One could know these things without feeling them. And this wasn't something you forgave." 
"Adolin loved his father, even now with everything he had learned about what Dalinar had done. Even with that event. He loved his father." 

"I don't represent you anymore father. I'm a high prince, I represent myself." 
"I know that's the person you really are...Do not let my failings drive you to rebel against what you know is right merely because it is what I wish of you."  

"It's about you again. I cant have an opinion or make choices I'm only acting like this because of your influence."
"Maybe incredible though it may seem, there are more than two choices in life. I'm not you, but that doesn't mean I'm Taravangian. Maybe I'm my own brand of wrong." 

 

"I love him but can't yet forgive him. I think I will, with time. There's more though. Straining out relationship. He has this misguided notion that I've always been better than him. To father I'm some pristine remnant of my mother-this noble little statue who got all of her goodness and none of his coarseness. He doesn't want me to be me, or even him. He wants me to be this imagined child who was born better than he ever could be." 

The conflict in WoKs is about Dalinar, the conflict in RoW is about Adolin. 

OB: 
Unplanned arrival in shadesmar
Shallan uses magic to travel the ocean to an island.
Have to quickly move through the island as Kaladin is attracting anger spren.
Travel south because Azure knows about light houses there.  
Kaladin touches orb during highstrom and gets a vision and disagrees with the others about where they should go. 
They make arrangements with this man and secure a boat.
Arrive at Celebrant and exchange what they can and try to find another ship.
Fused track down Adolin and the gang. 
Syl reveals her identity to the crew of Honor's Path and they all flee on it from the Fused. 
Eventually Fused converge on the Honor's Path.  
They abandon the ship and travel under the ocean with Shallan's power to an island.
They make their way across this island on foot to the oath gates trying to avoid getting notived by Fused. 
When they arrive at the oath gate they find it guarded. 
They make a plan to fight the Fused. 
The plan goes poorly and Kaladin tries and fails to say an ideal. 
They get saved by an outside force, Dalinar, not within shadesmar 
They all make it back to the physical realm, their destination. 
RoW:
Planned diplomatic journey. 
They already have a method of traveling across the ocean secured.
Shallan discovers that there's a traitor among her 'court' of Lightweavers.  
They stop at the Freelands as a planned part of the journey. 
Make their way along the coast to Lasting Integrity. 
They notice the Tukari slowly following them. 
Adolin notices how badly Shallan is doing and takes her to see a Star Spren. 
Tukari turn back after a few days. 
Go back to fight with the Tukari to save Notum. 
Then continue on their way to Lasting Integrity. 
Get denied entry to their goal. 
Adolin decides to put himself up for trail to get in, the honor spren agree. 
Only Adolin, Shallan and Pattern make it to their destination. 
 

Adolin, Kaladin and Shallan with a few other sneak into the Kholinar. In Lasting Integrity no stealth is used. He goes right up to the front gate announces who he is a requests to face trail for the sins of past Radiants.

Adolin goes to someone he knows personally in Kholinar. Within Lasting Integrity there is no such person. He and Shallan are given rooms.  

Adolin has to learn honor spren trail law. Adolin doesn't go through any formal educational process during Kholinar. 

Adolin gets put on trail in Lasting Integrity, this doesn't happen in Kholinar.

Adolin portrayal within Kholinar is one of competence. In Lasting Integrity Adolin is seen as naïve and an idiot. And unlike in Kholinar his actions do not disprove anyone's opinion of him. During his trial he can barely sway any spren until Notum and Maya speak up for Adolin or defend themselves. 

Adolin and Kaladin lead the battle through the palace to get to the oath gates. Shallan 'fends' off the Unmade and they use the oath gates to escape. They fail in their mission to secure Kholinar and Elhokar dies. In Lasting Integrity Adolin succeeds in his mission to encourage more honor spren to bond people. These are different scenarios with different outcomes.

It's not the details but the plot beats.

 

Adolin Dalinar in WoK: Externalizes Dalinar's conflict and shows how he is changing

Adolin and Dalinar in RoW: Externalizes Dalinar's change and shows how his family is in conflict.

 

Shadeasmar in OB: Hey look at this cool and unusual place.

Shadesmar in RoW: Hey look at this cool and unusual place with some wierd things going on.

 

Kholinar: Hey this is an intresting city with secrets we need to uncover

Lasting Integrity: Hey this is an intresting city with secrets we need to uncover.

[Pathfinder]

24 minutes ago, TypicalShard said:

 

I don't really care I want you to explain. 

Well if that's how you are going to be, I am not sure why I should care what you want me to do.

I stated my unpopular opinion in a thread titled unpopular opinions. I feel I fully explained my opinion. You aren't giving me much reason to engage with you on the topic given your response.

Nothing is compelling me to elaborate on my beliefs further to you than I already have. You haven't given me much reason to think such a conversation will end well for either party.

[TypicalShard]

11 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Well if that's how you are going to be, I am not sure why I should care what you want me to do.

I stated my unpopular opinion in a thread titled unpopular opinions. I feel I fully explained my opinion. You aren't giving me much reason to engage with you on the topic given your response.

Nothing is compelling me to elaborate on my beliefs further to you than I already have. You haven't given me much reason to think such a conversation will end well for either party.

I probably should've clarified that. When I said I didn't care I was referring to this: 

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

@TypicalShard

My post was not meant to attack Adolin. I just feel Rhythm of War confirmed my personal understanding of the character's purpose and function in the novels. You are perfectly entitled to love those story beats, and the character. I wish you well with it. 

Adolin and the moments you discussed were not ones I feel particular passion for, but I do disagree with how you presented their similarities to things that happen in RoW. I was trying to say was that Adolin and my feelings for the character are not why I disagreed with you. I dont care one way or the other what other people feel for the characters in the story. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by TypicalShard

[Pathfinder]

21 hours ago, TypicalShard said:

I probably should've clarified that. When I said I didn't care I was referring to this: 

Adolin and the moments you discussed were not ones I feel particular passion for, but I do disagree with how you presented their similarities to things that happen in RoW. I was trying to say was that Adolin and my feelings for the character are not why I disagreed with you. I dont care one way or the other what other people feel for the characters in the story. 

Thank you for clarifying. 

 

Dalinar's madness and Evi were always about Dalinar and him coming to terms with his darker impulses and his past. Trying to be more diplomatic, instead of just forcing people to do what he says. At the end of Oathbringer, some of the fans felt like there was not enough blow back among his family regarding Evi. 

Now I have put this separate so hopefully there is absolutely no way this can be missed. I am not saying those that felt that way were wrong to feel the way they did. Nor am I saying their complaints resulted in Brandon changing anything in subsequent books. 

What I am saying, is Adolin being upset about it in Rhythm of War is to show that blow back. Again make it external. Again showing the fallout of Dalinar's past, and his struggle to be a better man. He has a lot of blind spots. He is learning to recognize that. 

 

Both city scenes involve Adolin meeting with officials in the city and talking, while Shallan goes around covertly finding out what is really going on. Shallan find out about the unmade. Shallan found out about Restares.

But lets take it further. The fact that Testament popped up, and originally Lift was going to be the edgedancer to accompany Shallan, says to me the original plot had nothing to do with Adolin at all. The deadeyes was supposed to be about Shallan/Testament and Lift. 

 

Which is why again, I was saying that other character's plots were folded over to include Adolin, or use Adolin to further their own. Which for me means he is a pure foil character. I don't think that is a bad thing. it is just a fact of life to me. I certainly understand you disagree and I respect your opinion. My opinion is the unpopular one after all. Hence it is in this thread lol.

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

I'm rereading again and damn, the "kernel" of this book (Navani's studies) is the only interesting thing happening in Part 3. The part 1 is fantastic and my favorite part 1 in the series. The part 2 is awesome too, Shalan and Adolin journey at first, and then Singer invasion to Urithiru. Up to this point this is the strongest book in the series

And then part 3 starts. This part is such a bore, I could erase it almost completely. Move Dalinar and Jasnah POVs to part 4 and then cut almost all Kaladin and Venli POVs

The flashbacks contents are ok (although quite uneventful, it was nice to see some characters of Gavilar entourage, hope to see more from Axindewth), but painfully poorly placed. One of the best things about SA flashbacks is how much they flash out the main characters in a sense you start to understand how and why they act like that and in this sense the flashbacks help you to get INTO the povs. This time the flashbacks feels totally out of place and all felt like circuit breaking. Venli is such a indolent observer and that prevents me for liking her, worth nothing her flashbacks are making me feel no additional sympathy to her 

 

From my memory I really liked part 4 and 5, I expect to keep liking it. It's sad part 3 legs so behind everything else 

Edited April 8, 2022 by IcaroRibeiro

[cometaryorbit]

One slight annoyance to me is that the characters seem to have "modernized" too fast. I get that Navani and Jasnah are super awesome, but it seems like fabrial tech and political changes are going very quickly and smoothly.

Especially with the mental health discussion... it feels too modern. Like, the characters have jumped through progress that took tons of people a century and a half or something (with lots of false starts and totally wrong directions) in RL.

I understand there are writing/out-of-world reasons for that, especially on the mental health side, but it still seems weird in a setting/in-world sense.

[Binkery]

I still don't see how so so so many people see Jasnah  as this higher being.  She literally shanked an unarmed drunk asshole in the neck and everyone clapped....that's not the person I look to as a queen bee.  Dalinar saying they "expertly" put that dumb guy in his place.  No.  They (and everyone else in Alethi society) knew what this idiot would do.  Plus her just being a warrior for warrior sake during the battling plus telling Dalinar when he wanted to pursue his powers she just says 'but war general??!' much like how she tried to sideline Shallan (who is so entrenched to spying) saying 'hey you need to make corn for us'  Jasnah is pretty much the dumbest smart person in Roshar.  Much like her father.  That is my very unpopular RoW opinion sadly. 

Don't ban me please

[cometaryorbit]

Jasnah is ... really controversial.

I see her as genuinely hypercompetent, but also having major blind spots that lead her to use that ability to do questionable things. She may be a really good queen for getting Alethkar through the immediate crisis, but yeah, I don't think she would necessarily be good in other situations, and she'd definitely be a *terrible* precedent/example for future rulers. (Her utilitarianism is frightening enough as is, but at least it's coupled with a very strong introspection/analysis of her own actions which is likely to keep her from going full on tyrant. I think 99% of rulers who tried to follow her model would end up full on tyrants.)