Mid-Range Game 47: Conflict of Superiority

[Straw he/him]

Hi, I'm here. Sorry for not being around all that much. I'll try to update my reads at some point.

11 hours ago, Archer said:

Straw – First to list their reads. Also voted Snipexe initially, came up with good reasons. Defended me. RIGHT. GET CAUGHT BEING RIGHT? NEUTRAL (An elim would want to get caught being right, not wrong. Has confidence to support people they know are villagers, that builds their reputation)

What is this supposed to mean?

[Liranil she/her]

1 hour ago, Quinn0928 said:

Look, on the one had you're correct that saying someone is sus just because they think you're elim is sort of counterproductive, because villager reads and reasoning are wrong all the time. On the other hand, though, I don't think being defensive is actually a bad thing in general, since when someone accuses you of being elim and it looks like other people are starting to agree, you defend yourself whether you're village or elim. (unless you're Breaker during the first few cycles, apparently, in which case you attempt to act even more sus? XD) It's not really AI.

Rereading that post, I should have been more specific. I mostly meant that sussing someone because they sussed you isn't a good long-term strategy, or isn't helpful all the time. I definitely think it's good for someone to defend themselves, and it can be helpful in some situations. Hopefully that clarifies what I meant! 

Right now we only have about nine hours left and less than half of us (7/15) have voted and we have a three-way tie between Archer, Breaker, and Matrim. I'm worried that the elims are laying low to see if they can force a tie or to see if they need to protect someone. Last time only 11/17 people voted (with one vote removal) and two of those who voted are now dead. I'm leaning towards changing my vote to move us away from a tie, and if I did, I'd probably vote Matrim, since Archer seems more village to me right now. I'm holding off for now since out of those three, Breaker is most sus to me (and has also flipped away from demanding to die XD). I'm going to hold out a bit longer, though.

[Guest Breaker]

7 minutes ago, Liranil said:

Rereading that post, I should have been more specific. I mostly meant that sussing someone because they sussed you isn't a good long-term strategy, or isn't helpful all the time. I definitely think it's good for someone to defend themselves, and it can be helpful in some situations. Hopefully that clarifies what I meant! 

Right now we only have about nine hours left and less than half of us (7/15) have voted and we have a three-way tie between Archer, Breaker, and Matrim. I'm worried that the elims are laying low to see if they can force a tie or to see if they need to protect someone. Last time only 11/17 people voted (with one vote removal) and two of those who voted are now dead. I'm leaning towards changing my vote to move us away from a tie, and if I did, I'd probably vote Matrim, since Archer seems more village to me right now. I'm holding off for now since out of those three, Breaker is most sus to me (and has also flipped away from demanding to die XD). I'm going to hold out a bit longer, though.

To be clear, I still demand to be NK'd.

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

their response to the perceived accusation is out of proportion

I misread something, then asked a question, which people thought was me defending myself from a non-existent accusation. As other people misinterpreted me I got angry, once I calmed down however, I explained the best I could and dropped it.

Now, I don't have any ideas on what we could do for a vote; I don't like a Archer vote, but that is mostly gut. I'm probably the most sus of Breaker , for several reasons. Their tactic feels metagamey at best, an Elim IKYK at worst. I have no other strong suspicions. I very much dislike a Matrim kill, as he is a very good village and I would rather have him helping us, rather than cursing us from the grave.

[Guest Breaker]

IKYK?

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

Just now, Breaker said:

IKYK?

I know you know (I know you know I know you know etc.). Also, I'm a little mad I got sussed for doing essentially the same thing in a ongoing game, so that's clouding my opinion.

[Guest Breaker]

Just now, Somebody from Sel said:

I know you know (I know you know I know you know etc.). Also, I'm a little mad I got sussed for doing essentially the same thing in a ongoing game, so that's clouding my opinion.

I'm not quite sure I understand what has to do with my actions, or what "tactic" in particular I've employed along those lines, or what I've done that's metagamey. Unless this is a complaint over my not quite playing to win. Would you care to explain that for me? 

 

I'm still suspicious of you over earlier, as well. You took long enough to stop making an issue of it, and are still insistent we misunderstood you, that it makes me think your emotional reaction was fear of being caught. Honestly, you supporting Matrim only makes me more suspicious of the both of you. 

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

1 minute ago, Breaker said:

I'm not quite sure I understand what has to do with my actions, or what "tactic" in particular I've employed along those lines, or what I've done that's metagamey. Unless this is a complaint over my not quite playing to win. Would you care to explain that for me? 

 

I'm still suspicious of you over earlier, as well. You took long enough to stop making an issue of it, and are still insistent we misunderstood you, that it makes me think your emotional reaction was fear of being caught. Honestly, you supporting Matrim only makes me more suspicious of the both of you. 

Switching playstyles every day is pretty metagamey, like I said, quite a bit of it is me being angry at getting sussed for doing the same "jumping in front of the bullet" playstyle.

Like I said, I was angry at not being understood, so it took me a while to calm down. I still insist you misunderstood me because you did, I just also misunderstood Ash. 

I only support Matrim because he's a good player, and if he was Elim, I doubt Araris would have been killed.

[Guest Breaker]

4 minutes ago, Somebody from Sel said:

Switching playstyles every day is pretty metagamey

What qualifies as metagamey here? I mostly understand meta in the roleplay and competitive senses. 

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

Just now, Breaker said:

What qualifies as metagamey here? I mostly understand meta in the roleplay and competitive senses. 

It's very similar to the rp sense, but I'm bad at explaining concepts. Maybe @Straw could help?

[Guest Breaker]

I do hope I'm not violating any rules by having some fun haha

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

Just now, Breaker said:

I do hope I'm not violating any rules by having some fun haha

Metagaming isn't against the rules, it's just annoying and breaks people's heads.

[Quintessential she/her]

@Elandera can we get a vote count? SfS's vote on Breaker broke the tie I believe, but the vote is still close...

(also Breaker, you can now, for a short period of time say: "The name's Breaker. Tie Breaker" XD I'm so great at puns)

[Guest Breaker]

Let's be friends.

[Elandera she/her]

4 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

@Elandera can we get a vote count? SfS's vote on Breaker broke the tie I believe, but the vote is still close...

(also Breaker, you can now, for a short period of time say: "The name's Breaker. Tie Breaker" XD I'm so great at puns)

Seven hours left!

Vote Count:

Archer (2) - Quinn, Striker
Breaker (3) - SfS, Matrim, Liranil
Matrim's Dice (2) - Dannex, Breaker
xinoehp512 (1) - Archer

[Mat he/him]

31 minutes ago, Breaker said:

I'm still suspicious of you over earlier, as well. You took long enough to stop making an issue of it, and are still insistent we misunderstood you, that it makes me think your emotional reaction was fear of being caught. Honestly, you supporting Matrim only makes me more suspicious of the both of you. 

This is the kind of thing that adds to my suspicion of you; the kind of reasoning where you're suspicious of those whose reads aren't similar to yours. It's not a reliable line of thought. SfS isn't the only one who's supported me, either. Are you suspicious of them too?

28 minutes ago, Somebody from Sel said:

I only support Matrim because he's a good player, and if he was Elim, I doubt Araris would have been killed.

I'll take the compliment, but actually elim!me would have been likely to kill Araris. Looking at the player list just now, thinking what elim!me would have done, Araris matches up decently well. The only other one I would have probably considered was Ash, maybe Straw. The others all had enough new player/returning player/suspicion. I actually would put myself in the same category with Araris, Ash, Straw (the category being the kill pool the elims likely considered) but I obviously wouldn't have killed myself, and the elims didn't either because I had votes and would be a viable misexe later, as we see happening now.

I didn't do it. I'm just being honest and saying I probably would have

[Guest Somebody from Scadrial]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

I'll take the compliment, but actually elim!me would have been likely to kill Araris. Looking at the player list just now, thinking what elim!me would have done, Araris matches up decently well. The only other one I would have probably considered was Ash, maybe Straw. The others all had enough new player/returning player/suspicion. I actually would put myself in the same category with Araris, Ash, Straw (the category being the kill pool the elims likely considered) but I obviously wouldn't have killed myself, and the elims didn't either because I had votes and would be a viable misexe later, as we see happening now.

I didn't do it. I'm just being honest and saying I probably would have

Ok then. See, you are a good Elim and Village player, this prove that right. Come on, fellow Elim, you shouldn't be giving yourself away like that!

[Mat he/him]

10 minutes ago, Somebody from Sel said:

Ok then. See, you are a good Elim and Village player, this prove that right. Come on, fellow Elim, you shouldn't be giving yourself away like that!

I'm... going to point out the white text before someone else does. It's obviously a joke, and one I'm ignoring...

Edit: Why do I feel like you're trying to pocket me

Edited December 26, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[BrightEyes2 she/her]

Niki let herself zone out from the conversation. It was less of a conscious decision, and more of a way of centering herself. Not from aggressive feelings of course, those didn't affect her people, but from nerves. Ventryl she thought, Poor Ventryl, having to carry home the disappointment from being stripped of her rank. 

She let herself ignore the conversation for too long. The meeting was already mostly over when an announcement was heard from a messenger Dione.

"Arais Valerian is gone. He has simply disappeared."

The room began to mutter as discussion blossomed between those on both sides of the meeting hall again bringing fresh debates to the topic.

"Order," the high minister called, "This news is disturbing but we must continue with order."

The DPS go too far, she thought, They have began to let aggression cloud their actions.

 

With it being Christmas and all, this has been the first time I have been able to post (this cycle), so here are my thoughts from this cycle (reads below). Be aware that I don't know anyone here from anything besides this game so things I may think are weird or noticeable about someone could be very normal. 

 

Spoiler

Matrim's Dice: You seem very defensive and interested in covering your back. You also seem to be pushing hard on Breaker, but don't want to be associated with anyone. At the same time, you are trying to share your thinking and reads on people, which is very much appreciated.

 

Somebody from Sel: You seem to play with a lot of emotion, less logic. You almost seem afraid of Breaker's brashness and that is swinging your vote.

 

Breaker: You seem to just be playing brashly, without much regard for convention particularly this cycle. You wanted to be killed as announced yourself as your first post and are pushing against those that seem to put you as an elim. I don't really know how to read you but I don't see this as a reason to kill you. My gut instinct is that as you are new, are just trying to do as many things, and try as many play styles as you can. It makes it hard to read but I don't think you are an elim.

 

Quinn0928: You seemed to do a similar thing to what I did (Busy, so mega post and a bit nervous to decisively vote). You seem willing to share information, and open with your thoughts. I also think you are trying to vote based on your independent thought and trying not to bandwagon

 

Liranil: You give a solid reasoning for Breaker being an active elim if it is a more inexperienced team, and give solid reasons not to explicitly trust Ashbringer's list of a probable leader elims.

 

Ashbringer: You seem to suggest that the Arais kill was a fear kill or a metagame kill. This swung discussion that way and don't think it has swung back. You were then the first to put together a clear list of where you thought people lie (as far as being elim leaders) and I think you are trying to be logical in your posts.

 

StrikerEz: You seem to be going off of the removed vote on Archer and are suspicious of Archer because of it.

 

Archer: You seemed eager to move on from what happend last round with suspicions regarding you not revealing a strategy. Most people seem to be reading you as a capable elim or a capable village. I think that you are making vocal reads based on your perceptions of elim behavior. You also seem to be pushing Xino 

 

Xinoehp512: You seem to be busy/doing other things and just not being on. My read is that you are either not super active, or trying to seem that way.

 

Straw: You seem to again be busy. Most people seem to be calling you as an expierenced player but that is all I really know.

 

Dannex: Again, you seem busy. The only weird part of that to be, is just that people seem to be putting you, Quinn, and Matrim on the same list of talkative people. You don't seem to be fitting that bill in both C1 and C2 (then again, Christmas was yesterday so that kind of changes things). Your only post then goes to put suspiscion on Matrim's post of gut reads.

 

Snipexe: People have said that you are expirenced, and you haven't posted this cylce.

 

Ghanderflaffle: You commented on the soothing of a vote on Archer and haven't commented since.

 

Ookla the Shadowed: No information

 

Reads (based on notes in the spoiler, and just gut reads):

Villiage: Breaker, Quinn0928, Archer, Ashbringer

Neutral: Matrim's Dice, Ookla the Shadowed, Ghanderflaffle, Snipexe, Straw, Strikerez

Elim: Dannex, Xinoehp512, Liranil, Somebody from Sel 

 

Xinoehp512 is my vote, out of the reason listed above, reads and because they have been voted on once.

Edited December 26, 2020 by BrightEyes2
Clarification

[Quintessential she/her]

7 minutes ago, BrightEyes2 said:

Xinoehp512 is my vote, out of the reason listed above, reads and because they have been voted on once.

Hmmm this perhaps isn't... the best situation. We now have one person with 3 votes and three people with 2. That means that if the elims have a Dione, they could cause a four-way tie, and if they have a Cambric they could cause a two-way tie. Also, any non-elim vote-manippers could, with all the best of intentions, cause ties between villagers. It's a precarious situation, so with that in mind I'm going to remove my vote. Archer

I won't vote Breaker, because I still think they're village and I want to believe that the people who've voted for them will change their minds... But I don't want a four-way tie to be within reach of the elims, so I'm removing my vote on Archer. Hopefully that will help, and I'll be able to pursue my suspicion of him without causing a near-tie next cycle.

[Liranil she/her]

26 minutes ago, BrightEyes2 said:

Reads (based on notes in the spoiler, and just gut reads):

Villiage: Breaker, Quinn0928, Archer, Ashbringer

Neutral: Matrim's Dice, Ookla the Shadowed, Ghanderflaffle, Snipexe, Straw, Strikerez

Elim: Dannex, Xinoehp512, Liranil, Somebody from Sel 

 

Xinoehp512 is my vote, out of the reason listed above, reads and because they have been voted on once.

...This is not at all what I expected you to say based on your spoiler! I'm really surprised you put Ashbringer and Archer as Village because you sounded suspicious of them in your summary, but maybe I'm misreading it. I'm also very uncomfortable with you putting us so close to a four-way tie.

Quinn took their vote off of Archer, which helps, but I'm still nervous about this. I'm leaving my vote on Breaker since Archer is the one I considered switching to, and at least Breaker is being Tie Breaker.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Liranil
Grammar

[Mat he/him]

26 minutes ago, BrightEyes2 said:

Matrim's Dice: You seem very defensive and interested in covering your back. You also seem to be pushing hard on Breaker, but don't want to be associated with anyone. At the same time, you are trying to share your thinking and reads on people, which is very much appreciated.

 

Yep  I'm naturally defensive. Comes with being active, I suppose.

Y'know how I said it'd be easy for elims to use the excuse of 'trying not to get a tie' to have voted on Ventyl? BrightEyes was one of those. Y'know who just brought us close to a tie? Who might be receiving direction from teammates?

Yeah. I'm a bit sus of BrightEyes... and I can't switch to further push away a tie because 1. I'm currently on the one with the most votes, and 2. The second most is me and someone I sort of (?) trust.

My read on xino is like my read on Straw, but a bit more forceful. I read their posts as village but instinctively think they're elim. I'd rather exe Breaker atm, though.

[Guest Breaker]

14 minutes ago, Liranil said:

Quinn took their vote off of Archer, which helps, but I'm still nervous about this. I'm leaving my vote on Breaker since Archer is the one I considered switching to, and at least Breaker is being Tie Breaker.

I think you’re my enemy in this game, but I love the way you disguise your heinous attacks on my person! Full points for dumb puns! 

[Straw he/him]

Okay, I'm back.

First of all, why is there so much kill discussion? I don't find that very helpful. I think that offering reads based on posts in the thread is much more helpful, since it makes people give specific thoughts on certain players rather than just making groupings.

New thoughts:

Striker - gut good, disagree on ties
Matrim - gut good
Snipexe - seems a bit too much
Xino - broke tie in favor of Ventyl. Either village or another elim in Mat/Archer/Snip.
BrightEyes2 - sudden vote on Ventyl, watch her

Breaker - odd focus on being killed
Quinn - bandwagons Archer, I don't like this
Breaker - overly aggressive, weird
Matrim - weird narrowing down
Archer - weird reads, too much village IMO
BrightEyes2 - not much connection between explained reads and list

Read list:

Breaker - mild village (getting weird feelings here though, would like more reads from him)
Striker - very mild village
Archer - neutral (leaning gut good though)
BrightEyes2 - neutral (would like more thoughts on why people are where they are in your list)
Matrim - neutral
Ghander - very mild elim
Quinn - very mild elim
Snipexe - mild elim

I'm a bit unsure about Snip, so I think I'll go with a Quinn vote.

I won't be around for a bit, but I should be able to make rollover.

[Guest Breaker]

Hey, if you want anything from me, reads or otherwise, you’ve got about three hours of me being candid left. Then I either die or shorty become quiet for about 24 hours.