theories Dalinar's Champion

[Master Silver]

So, I know there is a thread for Odium's champion. This thread is for Dalinar's Champion. I know there will be bleed over, but that is ok. Also what does the contest entail? What does it mean to be champion?

Some have said Kaladin.

Others, Talenel'Elin  

Others, Adolin

Others, Lift..

And the list goes on. So who do you think is going to get the job and why. Do you think they will fail or succeed and why? I think it will be Kaladin because he was our first character. No time to go into more explanation right now and sorry for butchering the names.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Master Silver

[rosin_the_beau]

I've actually thought about this recently. I think that it is actually going to be Adolin, and that he has trained perfectly for the job.

Adolin's calling is literally dueling, meaning that he has trained almost nonstop in a goal-oriented environment. He is also storming good at it. We know that he doesn't really like normal battle, that it isn't really a test of skill for him. In all the books, we hear him talking about Dueling, and we hear how good he is. We even have potential foreshadowing. When Dalinar is attempting to unite the Warcamps in WoR, he appoints Adolin as his champion to duel people for their shards. It would be beautiful if that happened again.

Anyways, that's my two bits. Hope you enjoyed it.

[Harbour]

I will go and name either Ishar or Dalianr himself. Ishar because he is a fellow Bondsmith so Dalinar might have seen something familiar in him.

Dalinar because no one expect spanish inquisiton  him after Unity thing. But what if his arc isnt just the "from bad to good" arc, but the "from bad to good to bad again" arc? Not gonna say it will happen in Book 5, but by the Book 7 or 8? Who knows. I myself dont believe this is gonna be the case but what if Dalinar saw... himself?

[Harbour]

At this point i see no character that close to Odium's Champion candidate when it comes to build up.

Adolin? We had some symbolism like number 9. We saw he could cross the line (with killing Sadeas). We saw him showing some possessive traits (like he talk to Shallan like she is a tool that he can protect or give to some one else (Kaladin). But, well, all of this dont look like a solid reason for him to become The Villain. I think, to become an actual candidate he needs to show something really nasty in RoW. He didnt have his Tusken Village to wipe out, so to speak, yet.

Kaladin. The only solid reason for him to swap sides if there would be some revelation about Parshendi/Humans that would change everything and Kaladin will decide to side with Odium. Which is possible but not with a huge chances. Its anyway creates problems with Syl, so NO, the chances of Kaladin to become the champion are close to zero right now. 

Renarin had some stuff that may relate to Odium, but what are the chances that fragile, weak boy would become terrifying villain after getting some dark powerups? Can hardly see this. Some Kaladin or Adolin in the ray of holy light will whoop his evil chull mid diff.

Jasnah? Hmmmm, maybe? But again, nothing in the three books point at her toying with Odium stuff. Maybe something will happen in the future, but i doubt it.

Shallan. I doubt Dalinar would describe what he saw if he saw Shallan. No, its someone related to him or at least close enough (like Kaladin).

Another option is resurrected Gavilar, or Gavilar actually didnt die, but that smells bad from the writing stand point now.

Ishar. because he is also a Bondsmith, and Dalinar might saw something familiar in him. But i honestly doubt. It would be better for dramatic component if it would be someone close to Dalinar's heart rather than some of his collegue in business.

 

Right now Adolin is the closest to being a candidate, but not because he had much build up towards it. Other characters just have even less of build up.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Harbour

[StormlightNerd]

Spoiler

I think that Odium's champion is going to be Moash. He has already given his pain to Odium (something that he was trying to get Dalinar to do) and they had him kill Jezrien. Maybe that was just him being useful to them, but the fact that he has one of the Honorblades now... and he was given a new identity. (Vyre, the one who quiets) They seem to be prepping him for something and being Odium's champion just made sense to me. That's just my view on things.

Oathbringer spoilers

[Master Silver]

Ahh.. I see I should edit my original post so that it is clear that this thread is about Dalinar's champion, although I am fine with a bit of bleed over. I don't see Moash becoming Odium's champion because he just hasn't had any impressive feats in combat. He has talent but lacks experience. Kaladin has been in many more battles and even his experience and training pales in comparison to Dalinar and Adolin. I think Adolin was built for the role of champion, but I do think that we don't know what being the champion all entails. From Dalinar and Odium's discussion, and the vision, it seems like the champion will conduct the war on behlaf of Odium or Dalinar. I don't think it ends in a duel. If it does end in a duel. Adolin or Szeth. Szeth with the same stormlight healing and lashing ability as Kaladin +a weapon that can change likely wins against Kaladin in a fight. On the other hand, right now Kaladin+Syl=better than everyone else. Have we seen Jasnah wield a blade at all? Mostly just soul casting a victory on the battle field right?

[Bearer of all agonies]

3 hours ago, Debarra said:

Is Szeth not a popular choice? I always thought it was going to be him as he is easily the best fighter they have. A big reason Kaladin had him bet was because of his higher oath. As well as that he's trained under every surge they have meaning if they found a way to give him every surge...

 

 As well as that book five is his book. It makes sense to me he'd be the champion in that book.

Yes this totally makes sense. 

[Karger]

It would be cool if it was somehow Venli but I doubt it.  Nale would also be cool.  (Two birds one stone) but I don't think we have a better candidate then Moash.

[Bearer of all agonies]

Yes both are good choices

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

Just to throw this out there, there is the very real fact that Odium already selected his Champion, Dalinar, who he had been subtly pushing into this position with his proxy the Thrill. Really Cultivation's interference in Dalinar's development with his memories returning at key times, made this blow up in Odium's face. But he selected his Champion and it was in the presence of a Bondsmith, the fact that Dalinar very shortly after this did his famous hand clap and brought together the 3 realms seems even better than the signature of a notary public to make this contract binding. This was also the reason that Odium enlisted the help of the double-double agent Mr. T to pursue the mundane war in earnest.

I think this might be setting the stage for a noble self-sacrifice on Dalinar's part, namely selecting anyone as the Champion contra Odium and then allowing himself to be killed by this Champion.

This seems to me to be foolproof backup plan, in case the tide of the war is going poorly. This would buy time for the KRs and resuscitated Heralds to prepare for the final showdown with Odium.

[book.spren]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:32 PM, Harbour said:

Renarin had some stuff that may relate to Odium, but what are the chances that fragile, weak boy would become terrifying villain after getting some dark powerups? Can hardly see this. Some Kaladin or Adolin in the ray of holy light will whoop his evil chull mid diff.

I actually think Renarin is a very likely candidate for Odium's champion because 

Spoiler

Renarin has been known to compare himself to others and tries to improve himself--through education, joining Bridge 4, and so on. I think he may be susceptible to Odium's temptation to become stronger, smarter, etc. especially if it comes under the guise of "this will help you help your family and your people."  Also, I'm not sure how much Renarin knows about Dalinar's role in the death of his mother and, if/when he finds out, he may become angry enough to want to challenge Dalinar.  

 

[sonoskay]

Maybe I am misguided, but i didnt interpret  a contest  of champions as a literal contest  between two people. I saw it as an agreement  between  odium and  the current representative  of honor  that the coming war would not be directly joined by them.

 In this dalinar has already sworn  he would no longer  be  a leader of troops.   And kaladin, being the first windrunner who embodies leadership, would likely be the "champion".

 And the reason odium fled in the confrontation  was  because  dalinar   refused  to be his champion and had to  go and find one bonded by the oath he gave dalinar.

 

 So i guess my awnser is kaladin,

[Robot]

I honestly think it's either going to be Kaladin or Szeth. From a narrative point of view Kaladin is the obvious one right now, but Szeth is supposed to be a MC and he's done almost nothing, so I assume he's going to have a huge role in book 5.

[+Child of Hodor]

13 hours ago, Robot said:

I honestly think it's either going to be Kaladin or Szeth. From a narrative point of view Kaladin is the obvious one right now, but Szeth is supposed to be a MC and he's done almost nothing, so I assume he's going to have a huge role in book 5.

On 7/22/2020 at 10:57 AM, sonoskay said:

Maybe I am misguided, but i didnt interpret  a contest  of champions as a literal contest  between two people. I saw it as an agreement  between  odium and  the current representative  of honor  that the coming war would not be directly joined by them.

I agree in that all Odium and Dalinar actually said was a "contest of champions". Most of us assume duel, but it could be a larger fight or it could not even be actual combat. I do think it's a special event though. Taravangian gets Odium to make a deal because he points out "You have agreed to a battle of champions you must withdraw to prevent this battle from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise he can force you to fight.." (OB Ch. 122).  The larger war is not the contest of champions. It's an event that Dalinar can now trigger if he's in Odium's presence. 

If it is an actual fight and not some Brandon-esque twist where it's a philosophical debate, Roshar's Top Chef (Rock) contest, or a round of "Whose That Cosmere Character" ( @WeiryWriter is champion )   ...  then Kaladin and Szeth are the two best options. In a one-on-one duel flying around would be a huge advantage.

 

There's two ways to look at it: Who do I think is the best choice and who do I think Brandon will go with if this isn't all a big misdirection. I would choose Kaladin, but I'm expecting Szeth or a complete surprise. 

I'm assuming this contest will happen towards the end of book 5 and both Kaladin and Szeth will be at the same point in their progression of Oaths.  Both of them have been fighting and killing for years. Kaladin is a trained soldier who fought in wars, Szeth trained with all the surges before he was exiled and spent years killing people.

Nightblood really gives Szeth the advantage, but Kaladin is far less crazy. Think of how many times Szeth has freaked out during combat. His first fight with Kaladin he runs away, his second fight he lets Kaladin kill him. In OB he refuses to enter the red mist of the Thrill because he's afraid of the voices in his head, making Lift deliver the King's Drop to Dalinar instead. I wouldn't want to bet my life on Szeth keeping his crem together during a battle. Kaladin has had his freakouts too. However, if Kaladin agrees to be the champion and to defeat the other champion I don't think have "whose side am I on" issues during the fight. 

For meta reasons I think it might be Szeth because it will be his flashback book and he hasn't had as many big heroic moments as the other characters. He's due for one. 

There are other possibilities: 

Jasnah,  I don't think it will be her because she's a back 5 flashback character. Her biggest moment should be then. Otherwise she is a good choice, experienced surgebinder.

Shallan is best when she can use disguises and stealth, could work, but not ideal. 

Dalinar doesn't even have a blade and choosing himself as champion seems silly.

Adolin, is great at sword fighting, but has no experience with surges. If he's become a radiant by book 5 he still won't be as experienced with his surges as many others.

Renarin, again a back 5 flashback character. He is barely trained in fighting. Even normal Truthwatchers aren't that suited for dueling surgebinders and frontline fighting. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Child of Hodor

[Adolinalsium]

I think with how Brandon wrights it won't be adolin he just never does the obvious person but it is a great set up

[rosin_the_beau]

25 minutes ago, Adolinalsium said:

I think with how Brandon wrights it won't be adolin he just never does the obvious person but it is a great set up

This is true, that Brandon likes subverting our expectations, but you can't build a story around that. 

Also from the discussion here, it seems like most people favor Kaladin or Szeth. Adolin would be slightly out of the blue, and he isn't even planned as a flashback character.

If you want it to be even more unexpected, what if Adolin never becomes a Radiant? (I have mixed feelings about this, but the story of Adolin, without access to Surgebinding would be epic) I think Odium would be rightly suprised

[Adolinalsium]

Yes I agree rosin_thebeau

Is Dalinar aloud to choose himself?

I think that it would be cool if he chose Renarin and then in the middle of the fight Brandon shows a flashback where Renarin saw the future.

I know it's almost definitely not right but that could be really cool.

[Medium]

Does anyone actually know who Odiums champion is? Or is it the nameless guy in black shardplate we hear about in Oathbringer

[+Bzhydack]

13 minutes ago, Kalb said:

Does anyone actually know who Odiums champion is? Or is it the nameless guy in black shardplate we hear about in Oathbringer

Odium probably dont choose his champion yet. He was sure that Dainar will be his Champion, and he has to modify his plans after Dalinar refuses him.

[Medium]

7 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Odium probably dont choose his champion yet. He was sure that Dainar will be his Champion, and he has to modify his plans after Dalinar refuses him.

thanks bro

[ConfusedCow]

Suppose Odium chooses Adolin, setting the stage for the love triangle death duel.  Dalinar might choose Shallan.  She could lightweave herself to look like Kaladin, then drop the deception at the last minute.  Stunned, unwilling to kill, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he was fighting to protect, Adolin would hesitate.  Then Shallan could do what she always does to the people she loves, especially the men who try to possess her. 

[DramaQueen]

6 minutes ago, ConfusedCow said:

Suppose Odium chooses Adolin, setting the stage for the love triangle death duel.  Dalinar might choose Shallan.  She could lightweave herself to look like Kaladin, then drop the deception at the last minute.  Stunned, unwilling to kill, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he was fighting to protect, Adolin would hesitate.  Then Shallan could do what she always does to the people she loves, especially the men who try to possess her. 

I need to say something about this, but I am speechless. So, let me just sum up my emotions with one word: Wow.

[theTruthshaper]

9 minutes ago, ConfusedCow said:

Suppose Odium chooses Adolin, setting the stage for the love triangle death duel.  Dalinar might choose Shallan.  She could lightweave herself to look like Kaladin, then drop the deception at the last minute.  Stunned, unwilling to kill, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he was fighting to protect, Adolin would hesitate.  Then Shallan could do what she always does to the people she loves, especially the men who try to possess her. 

I don't understand where you got the 'men who try to possess her' from, especially since two of the three people she killed were women.

[Channelknight Fadran]

Come on. It's obviously Taravangian! And then the old man will double-cross Dalinar and everything goes in a headfirst downward spiral and we'll have a book or two about the Radiants hiding underground and striking at Odium best they can from their feebly-resourced position. It's the kind of plot twist everyone wished they saw coming but never did! Like literally all of Brandon's!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Channelknight Fadran
Oidum? Did I seriously write Oidum?

[Medium]

9 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

Suppose Odium chooses Adolin, setting the stage for the love triangle death duel.  Dalinar might choose Shallan.  She could lightweave herself to look like Kaladin, then drop the deception at the last minute.  Stunned, unwilling to kill, his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he was fighting to protect, Adolin would hesitate.  Then Shallan could do what she always does to the people she loves, especially the men who try to possess her. 

My guy. That is a crazy thing to say. Altho it would look INSANE in the book