Long Game 66: A Struggle for Power

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Experience said:

that your

that you're

[Mat he/him]

So, I haven't had that much time to catch up on the thread today, and therefore don't have analysis yet, I'll catch up tomorrow and post then. Thanks.

[Elandera she/her]

11 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Quote

Yes, the thing is that we may not want to suck up the action. As I said before, I'm leaning village for araris, and they thought that coda and I weren't on the same team. This means that Coda must be an elim. (ILuvHats)

Seems very non-elim behaviour here. If he was elim, he'd know Coda would flip village and would cast massive suspicion on him when it happens. An elim would not paint a target on their back by making a statement like this. Now, kandra!Experience though, that's a different matter. But I guess it's too early to go that route, yeah?

@Elandera and @Araris Valerian, you seem to be doubting them. What do you make of this post?

I think that post has some very flawed logic, personally. If Araris is village, he has just as much knowledge about who is on the same team as the rest of the village. What he likely meant by saying Coda and Experience weren't on the same team is that they likely weren't both elims, but they could be both villagers. Villagers are inherently more suspicious of everyone and often confront other villagers for little reason other than vague suspicions. It's easy for two villagers to seem adversarial.

The fact Experience posted that Coda must be elim because Araris thinks they're on different teams makes me more suspicious, actually, of Experience. It's like he couldn't see the possibility that they could both be misguided villagers, and thus tried to pin the suspicion and blame on Coda. 

Also, regarding suspicion of Araris, his voting pattern is NAI. He's honest when he says his votes are stab votes. I've seen him do it as both a villager and an elim. If that's the reason for the suspicion, I don't think it's a good lynch. He gets lynched for that reason alone entirely too much.

EDIT: Also, I have more time than expected tonight at work, but I also am battling a headache, so that throws out the possibility for any worthwhile analysis. I will try to answer direct questions, though. And if the headache ebbs, I'll try to add more.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Elandera

[Lahilt he/him]

45 minutes ago, Experience said:

Don't have much time to post right now. @Lahilt, do you have a reason that you're voting on me? 

I am finally back. So the reason for my vote against you @Experience was more of me thinking that If i was elim i would try to have at least one elim earning more boxings than any body else in an attempt to buy the lerasium. You seemed to fit that with your pattern of trying to get the most post and long RP. I did not think about the elims getting 20% of their kills boxings  I am thinking that the village has possibly a thief or two? To counter act that. Of course this does not mean your guilty or anything you just fit the bill for my thinking as an elim. Also another player who might fit the bill would be Xino with their long 200 words of role discussion.

Also i am thinking we should maybe make a bigger vote train closer too the end of the cycle. Because with all the possibilities of vote manipulation, and if we just leave it to vote manipulation it is a lot less likely that we lynch an Elim. Also a lynch kills boxings would go to more different players and i think that might be a benifit to the village.

And i just wrote this long post rambling on about boxings all to get one more. 

Experience defend yourself when you get time. I would like to hear it.

[Lahilt he/him]

And the latest release of SHOUTY SHOUT!!! at the risk of double posting

 

 

(Part the 10th, indicating our first foray into double digits (if we use the decimal system, which is obviously inferior to dozenal, vigesimal, and heximal)) (This Agent remembers to close the second set of parentheses!!!)

Confident Indecision Maker: I SEE!!! THAN YOU MAY PROCEED!!!

 

Confident Indecision Maker:

 

Stick: The stick is now a ninja stick! And is still on fire!

It is a flaming ninja stick!

It thinks that's cool!

 

The Representative: Stick, your budgetary proposal seems perfectly adequate! I say Aye! Members of the SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!!, I beg of you, break through your fog of indecision and vote with me on this important issue! MONEY is at stake here!

 

The Intern: This is acceptable! 

I wonder what the other inhabitants of the underground area think of all of our SHOUTING?!?

Should we make badges?!

BADGES ARE FUN!!!

I vote AYE on the budget proposal, so long as the GM agrees!

 

Stick: The stick is still on fire, but is no longer a ninja!

That is its vote.

 

Confident Indecision Maker: FLAMING NINJA STICK ACTIVATE!!!

Budget proposals are GOOD!!! Mainly because they involve gaining MONEYS!!!

Is this an RP though?!! I actually can't tell!!!

 

(The narrator notes that if it wasn’t an RP, it wouldn’t be posted in-thread.)

[Ashbringer he/him]

Uhh... you’re not supposed to post twice in a row. It makes people (mods) mad.

... why I’m not sure, but we’re supposed to avoid it.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

16 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Uhh... you’re not supposed to post twice in a row. It makes people (mods) mad.

... why I’m not sure, but we’re supposed to avoid it.

Here it's not as much of an issue. It's mainly the idea you should just edit things into your old post.

EDIT: Like so!

 

(Part 11, which is 3 in binary, though it is not actually Part the Third, as that has already occurred)

 

Confident Indecision Maker: I vote "AYE!!!" on the creation of "SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!!" badges and on any relevant BUDGETARY DECISIONS in need of RATIFICATION!!!

 

The Representative: The SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! has agreed on something for the first time in its admittedly short history! Oh great and mighty Game Masters, what is the verdict on our budgetary proposal‽ 

 

The Representative: As there is only a short time before the end of the day, the SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! would like to remind you that your eulogies, laments, and oaths of vengeance are due upon the SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!!'s representative's demise! Though the representative will no longer be able to SHOUT in PMs, he hopes you will carry on the great legacy of the SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! and continue to use an excessive quantity of exclamation points! Unless you save the representative's life, your assignment will be due at the end of the day! 

Salutations, dear agents! I had a splendid time SHOUTING at you all!!! I hope you continue to SHOUT in my absence!!!!!

 

(Following this statement, the paper’s ink is smudged by what appears to be a mix of plant sap and tears)

Edited June 8, 2020 by The Young Pyromancer
Realized it was my turn

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

18 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

I'd assume that if you were elims, you'd provide the in-thread collusion as the proof of so obviously working together that you couldn't be elims. You could have discussed in the elim doc to appear as if you were working together to allay suspicion. Reverse psychology, but hey, it works right? Though, I do think it is unlikely. At this point, I'm just thinking of possible scenarios. 

How would this clear the both of you? If you were elim, you'd have discussed this in the elim doc.

Again, I'm only trying to start a discussion. I'm not overly suspicious of you, I'm not even going to vote for you as of now. The discussion only helps us to give a better understanding of you, and it might clear you in the end.

There are a lot of possible scenarios.

You chose to spend most of your efforts talking about this one.

Own that decision. If you are going to spend most of your discussion posts theorizing about me and Pyro being in a conspiracy, you probably should vote for one of us. What else is voting for if not that? I know that I would probably squint at the justifications provided if you turned around and voted for somebody else.

Quote

 @DrakeMarshall, yeah I messed up with that post, sorry for that. What I meant is that you said "tie is not a worst goal to have, but I'm not sure why it was done", and well you were aiming to tie votes yourself, so you'd know why it was done. I didn't realize you were talking about vote manip until later. (But I still have my suspicions of you  Either you and Pyro are using that reverse psychology I mentioned earlier or you're using Pyro as a shield and piggy-backing him to provide mislynches an impetus.)

No worries. My issues with your prior theorizing aside, this part just seems like it was a simple misunderstanding.

8 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

2. @DrakeMarshall - Kynedath > Ashbringer > Matrim > Karnage > Araris > Hatz 

Similar path as Pyro with some poke/joke votes missing in the middle. What's interesting to note here is both Drake and Pyro voted for Ashbringer - the third member of 'Coda Support Group'. Now I'll admit I'm genuinely baffled by the Coda Support Group. They seemed honest in their efforts to save him, but the way they went about was...chaotic. Were they attempting to pocket him? Drake also wanted to save Karnage for some reason. 

Alignment: Neutral/Slightly elim

Related to the previous stuff, but I feel like I should respond to the reasoning against me here.

"They seemed honest, but the way they went about it was... chaotic" is a pretty good description of me just in general 

I try harder to save people than most, you are hardly the first to see it as pocketing. I don't expect you to know this, I'm just saying to the best of my knowledge it's not atypical of me.

I've been told that I also do pocket people as an eliminator, for reference. Although I think I'm usually more subtle about doing that(?).

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

2 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

"They seemed honest, but the way they went about it was... chaotic" is a pretty good description of me just in general 

I mean, I'm way worse. You at least go about it gradually. But then again, I generally have a specific outcome in mind for each thing I do, most of which don't end up happening, and I'm not sure you do. Who do you think is worse?

[|TJ| he/him]

I like the Pyro-Magestar interaction. Helped move my opinion of his alignment for "utterly confusing" to "slightly less confusing". He is no longer in my main suspect list.

6 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

These are my reads, no explanation or context provided (will be provided on request):

This is bizarre. The main point of a villager is to provide information and encourage discussion. You firmly saying you will not paints you in a bad light. "Will be provided on request"? Why? Why not give out the reasons in the open? It will only help the village. That phrase is very concerning

6 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

• Drake- Village, Obviously
• Ashbringer- Village
• Araris- Slight Village
• Pyromancer- Slight Village
• Hats- Very Slight Village
• Experience- Neutral
• Elandera- Neutral
• Matrim's Dice- Neutral
• Mist- Neutral
• Xino- Neutral
• Karnage- No Read
• Elkanah- No Read
• Reading- No Read
• Emi- No Read
• Lahilt- No Read
• Walin- No Read
• God King- No Read
• TJ Shade- Slight Suspcion
• Ventyl- Slight Suspicion
• Kynedath- Slight Suspicion
• Magestar- Slight Suspicion

Just posting a list of names with no context and no reasoning serves very little to the discussion and only intends to make us confused. You have listed names like me and Magestar who have only contributed to the discussion, made informative posts and backed it up with reasoning. You have mentioned Kynedath who has rarely been active under slight suspicion, but someone who has had activity similar to him like God King is listed as no read.  

57 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Own that decision. If you are going to spend most of your discussion posts theorizing about me and Pyro being in a conspiracy, you probably should vote for one of us. What else is voting for if not that? I know that I would probably squint at the justifications provided if you turned around and voted for somebody else.

Quote

This. Your suspect list. Exactly what I was waiting for. I was hoping for more discussion from your end before making my decision, and it seems like I was right. Your suspect list post has done that. It has given all the suspicion for me to be okay with lynching you. I would own up to that decision eventually, but I wanted to give you time. I've done that, and it has only added to my suspicion. DrakeMarshall

Edited June 8, 2020 by TJ Shade

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

8 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

True, but the in-thread "collusion" went Pyro: or we could lynch Walin or Hatz. Also Pyro: We could shift Hatz up there into tie-range as well. Ash: Fine, 'Karnage.' Sorry. I’ll move to Hatz if you post/more people vote for Hatz. And then the train commenced. Which isn't really specific collusion between me and Pyro, just me taking an opprotunity not to force it onto Karnage.

As far as I understand it, basically how the collusion unfolded was:

• I didn't like the Coda lynch + wanted to put Matrim up.
• Pyro agreed, voted for Matrim.
• Matrim posted and addressed concerns.
• Me and Pyro both retracted our votes because of that.
• I still didn't like the Coda lynch. Since I chose last time and Pyro followed, I said I would follow whatever Pyro chose this time.
• Pyro chose Karnage.
• I asked Pyro if they could pick somebody else. If I find a reason to suspect Karnage I won't hold back of course, but since D1 lynches are barely more than random, I would rather not target the same player across multiple games more than is necessary. And I had recently finished gunning for Karnage's mislynch in the last game I played.
• I eventually conceded to lynching Karnage.
• Pyro responded to my request by suggesting Walin or Hatz as an alternative lynch.
• I'm not positive why Hatz got picked over Walin, maybe the joke I made about Hatz name sounding evil signaled my preference for Hatz(?)
• Pyro went through with switching to Hatz.
• Ashbringer agreed and switched to Hatz. I was happy to follow suit and vote for Hatz. Mist weighed the people who already had votes and picked Hatz.
• Karnage also switched to Hatz to break a perceived tie.
  • @StrikerEZ I notice Karnage's name didn't make it into the vote tally... I thought the voting totals were the only thing affected by vote manipulation...
• In the SHOUTY-SHOUT PM I asked Coda to vote out of self-preservation, because it made sense to prevent the lynch of somebody I trusted, and because I was legitimately a bit curious why Coda hadn't already done so.

As far as I know, the last bit is the only part that didn't happen in-thread.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

10 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Just posting a list of names with no context and no reasoning serves very little to the discussion and only intends to make us confused. You have listed names like me and Magestar who have only contributed to the discussion, made informative posts and backed it up with reasoning. You have mentioned Kynedath who has rarely been active under slight suspicion, but someone who has had activity similar to him like God King is listed as no read. 

I partly disagree here. While reads lists may not be helpful for generating lots of discussion, they do help players see where they might agree on a lynch. Also, once a player dies, their list becomes more informative. If they were an elim, their village reads are worth looking into. If they flip village, then you know that the reads are honest.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

6 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

I’m sort of stuck on who to vote for. My main suspicion is Pyro, but Karnage and maybe Mist as well. And if I lead a Pyro lynch and he flips Village... that won’t go well for me. I have one other suspicion, but it’s personal for now since it’s more about me than them. 

I guess I’ll poke Pyro, at least until he says something about our PMs. He did nearly get 2 different inactives lynched, and he’s my only suspect that I think has more truth than conspiracy at its heart.

Lynching the wrong person is far from the most suspicious thing you could manage to do  That's just how the game is set up.

2 hours ago, Magestar said:

Sorry I haven't been terribly active yet this cycle.  I was rather busy and then I wanted to try and analyze Araris' play style from other games, which led me down the rabbit whole that is LG65.  I'm gonna start by responding to things from this cycle and then move towards analyzing specific people.  I think I'm going to semi-randomly pick four or five people and analyze both them and their interactions.  So uh.  Here are some random quotes and my analysis of them.  They're all out of order.   

I can't think of a lot of in-game reasons for killing Devotary, so I basically agree with Araris.  It seems more likely it was a meta decision.  Devotary had what, one post all game so far?  Idk.  I get wanting to kill inactives.  Leaving the actives alive makes the game more fun and more challenging as an Elim.  The time period Araris is mentioning is one I remember very clearly.  I hated it.  It ruined a number of games for me.  Even as an Elim, it's not fun at all when all that's left is inactives.  There's no challenge.  You just gently guide the lynch and wait until you kill everyone.  Yech.

I know saying this might make me read Elim, but I don't really care.   

I don't see any of this.  The biggest problem is that Karnage isn't suspicious to begin with, so any attempts to draw suspicion away from him would be rather lack-luster as compared to an attempt to draw attention to another player.  That would be much more effective.  And I really don't see the links between Pyro and Karnage.  I admit to being notoriously bad at reading Pyro (by which I mean they always read Elim to me), but moving their vote around a bit cycle one doesn't seem terribly Elim-leaning.

Alright now someone else post so I can keep going.    Am I blatantly splitting my posts into 200+ word segments?  Possibly.  Am I also avoiding a nearly thousand word post?  Also yes.  My next post will have a vote!   

In my time playing SE again I would agree that it seems like killing less active players has become more of the meta for elims. I still think we can learn from that though, because just because it's the meta doesn't mean you always follow it. If one of your own just had a near miss, you'd be a little more geared up to go on the offense and make some waves, no? It makes me read Hatz as slightly more village.

I agree with the other thing you say here.

57 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

The two main things I have against Experience are the early vote on Joe, and a comment on Mist having 3 votes. Also, Experience was invovled in the most posts war, and I'm mildly suspicious of everyone there (at least more than if they weren't). They are both sort of small things, which can probably be explained easily. But I still feel like an elim would be more likely to do each of them.

@The Young Pyromancer The elims are basically guaranteed to get the lerasium if they want it, since they can pass boxings, and steal 20% on kills. They don't need a thief.

I'd also like to echo the call for @Lahilt to explain the vote on Experience. I doubt you have the same reasons for voting on them as I did.

Also, for what it's worth, either Xino is trying to fool everyone, or he's a Gasper. Each of his D1 posts that I looked at had exactly 200 words (ignoring the quotes), which means he gets cash, and can still store. He also, by my incomplete tally, probably has more money than any living player as well.

@DrakeMarshall could you clarify the difference between "no read" and "neutral"? Also, I feel like Karnage has been involved enough to get a read on, so I'm curious why you have no read on him.

Sure. No Read means I feel like I just don't have any thoughts about that person / haven't heard from them much. Neutral means I do have some stuff for them I think could be alignment indicative but the scales come out more or less even.

50 minutes ago, Magestar said:

On the Twinborn discussion; I'm willing to admit to the thread that I am indeed a Twinborn.  My personal theory was that Twinborn were a way for Striker to get some of the strategically "weaker" or less exciting roles into the game without having any player have too boring or too useless of a role...  although if everyone's a Twinborn maybe that's just me.  It does raise the question of game balance... I can't help but wonder what the Elim team looks like.  I don't really know how Striker does his distributions, but Role Madness games tend to be odd to begin with so I'm curious what this Twinborn filled game will look like after it's over.

I'm also interested that there was only one kill last night.  Do we have a cautious or inactive village coinshot, or none at all?  It seems there's a lot of possible protection in this game, so I'd be surprised if there was no village coinshot at all.  I'd bet on cautious or inactive.  

Cool.  I'll request some explanation, for the sake of discussion.  You're the second or third person to read me as Elim, and while that's not entirely abnormal for me, I'm curious what it is that makes me give that vibe.

Drake Marshall's posts also tended to have about 200 words in the night cycle.  Several of them had 199, which seemed bizarre to me.  Not sure how important it is.  I didn't count all of them, so I don't know for sure it's a pattern.

For me, the difference between no read and neutral is that no read means I've got nothing on them and neutral means my Elim and Village reads balance.

I'm kind of surprised you didn't defend yourself.  You didn't even mention my vote or analysis.   

The word counter I've been using says they're all 200, but some of them count certain things differently.

You really didn't have to draw attention to that fact, though 

Anyone paying close attention knows that this means I'm claiming Gasper.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

Anyone paying close attention knows that this means I'm claiming Gasper.

Which he had done to me fairly early on, and I doubt he would've put in all the effort to bluff it in preparation for a fake-claim. Hence why I've been trusting him.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

17 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'm not positive why Hatz got picked over Walin, maybe the joke I made about Hatz name sounding evil signaled my preference for Hatz(?)

Sorry for the double-post, but quoting something: Ashbringer said they'd also lynch hatz. They did not mention walin, which seemed like a preference to me. Something to look into if Walin is elim/Hatz is village...

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

6 hours ago, Magestar said:

Cool.  I'll request some explanation, for the sake of discussion.  You're the second or third person to read me as Elim, and while that's not entirely abnormal for me, I'm curious what it is that makes me give that vibe.

Sure:

• For most people I have a read on, there are at least some actions I have a hard time reconciling as coming from elim. You somehow aren't in that category.
• Gut read.
• I admit I might be a little biased to justify your lynch on the grounds that you already have a vote and I think you're a better option than the other ones on the table.

Sorry if you expected a better explanation to respond to. D2 isn't a great day for that.

Something you can respond to, though. Could you walk me through your thinking about asking me to switch to Ashbringer on D1? It might help.

50 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Wow, this thread is heating up!

@DrakeMarshall, can you explain you reading on me?

Sure:

• The way you are going about things feels pretty different from last time we were in a game, which if I remember was this game's predecessor, in which you were a villager.
• There were parts of your reasoning on D1 that seemed a bit off to me.
• The fact that your main activity this cycle is self-defense when you don't even have any votes yet is a bit telling.

No one of these weigh that much against you, but together it's reason enough to suspect you, at this point.

[|TJ| he/him]

3 hours ago, Elandera said:

The fact Experience posted that Coda must be elim because Araris thinks they're on different teams makes me more suspicious, actually, of Experience. It's like he couldn't see the possibility that they could both be misguided villagers, and thus tried to pin the suspicion and blame on Coda. 

Yes well, that's what it seems he did. But then what? As I mentioned earlier, if he was elim, he would know that Coda would flip village. Making such a statement would cast a huge suspicion on him when that happened. 

2 hours ago, Lahilt said:

You seemed to fit that with your pattern of trying to get the most post and long RP.

You say this and then follow it up with a 200+ words SHOUTY-SHOUT post. (a double post no less). 

Also, 200+ words = suspicious? You seem to be doing the same thing as claimed by you. That seems hardly fair for people posting opinions and analysis. If anything, it makes people posting SHOUTY-SHOUT more suspicious according to your logic. It's not game related, and even if it does seem like RP, it does not allow others to participate. 

Personally, I think boxing hunting is NAI. Money is an incentive to everyone. I don't see why elims are more likely to hunt for them than villagers.   

2 hours ago, Lahilt said:

Also i am thinking we should maybe make a bigger vote train closer too the end of the cycle. Because with all the possibilities of vote manipulation, and if we just leave it to vote manipulation it is a lot less likely that we lynch an Elim. Also a lynch kills boxings would go to more different players and i think that might be a benifit to the village.

This is a bad idea. It would highly promote mislynches. Players would be encouraged to vote solely to build a train. Lynching for money is a big NO from me. The advantage of equal distribution of boxings is not enough to overcome the prospect of encouraging mislynches.

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

If they were an elim, their village reads are worth looking into. If they flip village, then you know that the reads are honest.

I mean if they were elim, they wouldn't be foolish enough to name some other elims as villagers right? Half of Drake's list is neutral/no read. Might as well hide elims among them.

EDIT:

51 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Anyone paying close attention knows that this means I'm claiming Gasper.

But... Gasper would be a brilliant role to give to an elim, right? Seeing as it is alignment-scan blocker.

Edited June 8, 2020 by TJ Shade

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Quote

The elims are basically guaranteed to get the lerasium if they want it, since they can pass boxings, and steal 20% on kills. They don't need a thief.

Forgot about this line from Araris.

Striker clarified this publicly on D1 and if I were an elim I would have definitely paid attention to it. The items in this game are pretty powerful and in particular whether or not the elims are likely to get the lerasium bead is a fairly massive tactical difference.

Not conclusive, but makes me trust Araris more.

2 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

I mean, I'm way worse. You at least go about it gradually. But then again, I generally have a specific outcome in mind for each thing I do, most of which don't end up happening, and I'm not sure you do. Who do you think is worse?

I have... More of a direction I want to go in than a specific outcome. Anything goes so long as it's headed in the right general direction.

Since that direction is embedded in some weird, higher-dimensional cognitive space, the resultant motion seems quite chaotic and nonlinear  Jury's also still out on whether I actually succeed in getting to where I'm pointed at.

59 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Sorry for the double-post, but quoting something: Ashbringer said they'd also lynch hatz. They did not mention walin, which seemed like a preference to me. Something to look into if Walin is elim/Hatz is village...

Huh. Missed that. Something to keep in mind, but not conclusive yet.

14 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Yes well, that's what it seems he did. But then what? As I mentioned earlier, if he was elim, he would know that Coda would flip village. Making such a statement would cast a huge suspicion on him when that happened. 

You say this and then follow it up with a 200+ words SHOUTY-SHOUT post. (a double post no less). 

Also, 200+ words = suspicious? You seem to be doing the same thing as claimed by you. That seems hardly fair for people posting opinions and analysis. If anything, it makes people posting SHOUTY-SHOUT more suspicious according to your logic. It's not game related, and even if it does seem like RP, it does not allow others to participate. 

Personally, I think boxing hunting is NAI. Money is an incentive to everyone. I don't see why elims are more likely to hunt for them than villagers.   

This is a bad idea. It would highly promote mislynches. Players would be encouraged to vote solely to build a train. Lynching for money is a big NO from me. The advantage of equal distribution of boxings is not enough to overcome the prospect of encouraging mislynches.

I mean if they were elim, they wouldn't be foolish enough to name some other elims as villagers right? Half of Drake's list is neutral/no read. Might as well hide elims among them.

EDIT:

But... Gasper would be a brilliant role to give to an elim, right? Seeing as it is alignment-scan blocker.

1. I agree that boxing hunting is NAI.

2. I agree that creating vote trains at the end just to avoid vote manips and distribute boxings is a bad idea.

3. I disagree with your role analysis: Predicting alignment by roles is tenuous, you don't even know my full role, and a Gasper role has village uses not dissimilar to the Smoker role.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

1 hour ago, TJ Shade said:

I like the Pyro-Magestar interaction. Helped move my opinion of his alignment for "utterly confusing" to "slightly less confusing". He is no longer in my main suspect list.

This is bizarre. The main point of a villager is to provide information and encourage discussion. You firmly saying you will not paints you in a bad light. "Will be provided on request"? Why? Why not give out the reasons in the open? It will only help the village. That phrase is very concerning

Just posting a list of names with no context and no reasoning serves very little to the discussion and only intends to make us confused. You have listed names like me and Magestar who have only contributed to the discussion, made informative posts and backed it up with reasoning. You have mentioned Kynedath who has rarely been active under slight suspicion, but someone who has had activity similar to him like God King is listed as no read.  

This. Your suspect list. Exactly what I was waiting for. I was hoping for more discussion from your end before making my decision, and it seems like I was right. Your suspect list post has done that. It has given all the suspicion for me to be okay with lynching you. I would own up to that decision eventually, but I wanted to give you time. I've done that, and it has only added to my suspicion. DrakeMarshall

Thank you for following through and voting for me. I appreciate directness. And, of course, I wanted to see how you responded.

As for my response... Well, I obviously support posting reads without justification, and here's why:

In a perfect world, I would always do a great job of explaining everything I say.

But like I said before, you only have so much time, so it matters what you choose to talk about.

I'd rather share my thoughts imperfectly than not at all. And I'd rather share my reads on everyone than just analyze 1 or 2 people because I'm getting tripped up needing to defend everything I said. In the long run the former is much more useful.

I hope you all would do the same.

And, of course, I made my reads brief because I already hit 200 words. I can and will provide more detail on demand, but I literally can't put it all in one post, so I might as well wait and see what I most need to elaborate on. You might say it's a convenient excuse, and it is, but then I refer you back to the other reasons I put before this one.

[|TJ| he/him]

49 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

3. I disagree with your role analysis: Predicting alignment by roles is tenuous, you don't even know my full role, and a Gasper role has village uses not dissimilar to the Smoker role.

Yeah fair enough. I did think back on my statement. There's no reason for you to role-claim if you're elim Gasper. It takes away the one power that elims would want to keep: anonymity.

41 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'd rather share my thoughts imperfectly than not at all. And I'd rather share my reads on everyone than just analyze 1 or 2 people because I'm getting tripped up needing to defend everything I said. In the long run the former is much more useful.

Thing is, it's not so much as imperfect as it is incomplete. I kind of get what you're trying to tell, but I don't find myself agreeing with it. Maybe as an experienced player you'd know better, and well, Araris also agrees with suspect list without reasoning, but I'm not sure if I can agree with it. "If you feel like you have something important to say that you feel would be helpful, then say it." is how I feel.  Having said that, I voted for you before you claimed Gasper. And Pyro is doing a thorough job of convincing me you're village in PM. So, I'm willing to keep an open mind. But at the moment I don't have a better suspect than you, and so my vote stays. Would you mind explaining your suspicions on me and Kynedath?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I suspected you because your actions initially looked like an elimy mixture of caution about drawing attention to yourself and trying to get certain people suspected. That's part of why I made an effort to confront you on it, because the way you responded would help reveal where your priorities lie in this game. For what it's worth my suspicion of you has toned down during this cycle. I'm thinking that the parts I found suspicious are just aspects of your playstyle and less strongly alignment indicative.

As for Kynedath? I don't entirely remember. I'll comb back through their posts and see if it jogs my memory, though.

Now, we are halfway through the day already. I'd expect a more vibrant lynch discussion than this, considering what we had on D1. Kind of makes me wonder about the current lynch candidates. Also kind of makes me want to stir things up because right now the lynch is waaaaay more boring than D1 lynch  Probably won't last, though.

I'm still awaiting Magestar's response to my question, and not entirely disinclined to vote for them, but... Right now...

Ventyl (@Ventyl), how do you plea?

And now a word from our favorite agency...

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

(Part twelve, a number of months in a year)

Stick: The stick wonders who the next representative will be. The stick also wonders what the GM's answer will be.

 

The Great and Mighty Game Master: I'm...not sure I quite understand what the budget proposal is proposing???

Also, have another reminder that the GREAT and MIGHTY GAME MASTER greatly appreciates the SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! very MUCH!!!!!!

 

The Representative: STICK!!! Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to become the next representative of SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!!. If you do not accept it, then CONFIDENT INDECISION MAKER!!! Your mission, should you receive and choose to accept it, is to become the next representative of SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!!

I leave SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! in your capable hands! Hopefully, by the time you too must pass along command of SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! you will know who is truly worthy of the position!!!

OH GREAT AND MIGHTY GAME MASTER!!! The budgetary proposal is suggesting we send the contents of the PM as RP and share the money!

Farewell, good people of SHOUTY-SHOUT AGENCY!!! It was an HONOR to serve by your side!

:)!!!

 

(Here words were obscured by several large tearstains. The narrator will continue once they decipher them.)

[Elandera she/her]

3 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Yes well, that's what it seems he did. But then what? As I mentioned earlier, if he was elim, he would know that Coda would flip village. Making such a statement would cast a huge suspicion on him when that happened.

It all seems like an unexperienced elim move. Experience is just new enough (and I don't believe he's been an elim yet), that it's probable that it was a panic response from elim!Experience.

I do see where you're coming from, but I don't know if a villager would immediately assume that the other person in the suggested scenario would have to be elim. 

[|TJ| he/him]

1 hour ago, Elandera said:

It all seems like an unexperienced elim move. Experience is just new enough (and I don't believe he's been an elim yet), that it's probable that it was a panic response from elim!Experience.

I do see where you're coming from, but I don't know if a villager would immediately assume that the other person in the suggested scenario would have to be elim. 

Yeah, it looks like they totally forgot V/V interaction. And they trusted Araris too quickly.

If it is the case of an inexperienced elim, I do wonder if the elims would make a move to bus them lest they reveal more from E/E interactions here. Hmmm, I wonder if that's what you and Araris are doing here 

Let's do a vote count! There hasn't been one in this cycle.

Experience (2) - Elandera, Lahilt
Araris Valerian (2) - Magestar, Xinoehp
Karnage (2) - Ashbringer, Pyromancer
Magestar (1) - Araris Valerian
Emi (1) - Karnage
DrakeMarshall (1) - TJ
Ventyl (1) - DrakeMarshall

Edited June 8, 2020 by TJ Shade
Missed a vote

[Magestar he/him]

5 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

The word counter I've been using says they're all 200, but some of them count certain things differently.

You really didn't have to draw attention to that fact, though 

Anyone paying close attention knows that this means I'm claiming Gasper.

Ah.  I didn't think much of it, personally.  I figured you were going for 200 and missing.  I haven't payed much attention to the Gasper role.

I feel like this makes it look like I'm analyzing the game more than I am so I'll clarify that the only reason I knew your post counts is because I was keeping track of people who might have more 200+ word posts than me.  I was going for the boxings last night since everyone was quiet.   

4 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Something you can respond to, though. Could you walk me through your thinking about asking me to switch to Ashbringer on D1? It might help.

Sure.

1. It looked like the Coda lynch wasn't going to go off.  People were starting to question their reads on him, plus it seemed like a few people explicitly wanted him to stay alive.  That's not really good when trying to get off a D1 lynch.  Also, at the time I believed that ties killed a random player.    So I kind of wanted a strong lynch.
2. The Karnage lynch had built up really fast. I didn't love that.  Seemed kind of iffy to me.
3. I also I had some suspicions of Ash, enough that I was more willing to lynch them than another player.  They were genuine suspicions, and I believe I documented them in that post.  I had remembered you expressing some suspicions before, so I figured you might be willing to shift your vote to this lynch.  I... I guess I was wrong, since you then immediately created a three way tie with Araris, who you also said you didn't want to kill?  That's a little odd.

So yeah, that was my basic reasoning. I'd just gotten home after having been out since about noon, and I was trying to catch up and get a post out so that my explain why the tone of the post was a little rushed.  If you've got any other questions let me know.

4 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Sorry for the double-post, but quoting something: Ashbringer said they'd also lynch hatz. They did not mention walin, which seemed like a preference to me. Something to look into if Walin is elim/Hatz is village...

You can actually copy paste quotes into other posts.  

I'm not unhappy with this tie.  All three of these lynches will give us some pretty useful information.  I'm not super suspicious of Exp or Karnage, but I'd be interested to see their alignments.  I might move my vote later depending on how the cycle goes.