Weird Urithiru Mural Detail

[Iarwainiel I]

I agree with some others that the "cloud bursting with energy and light" is Honor and the "woman in the shape of a tree" is Cultivation. I wonder if the "large blue disc" isn't a shardpool? No guess as to the "figure" embracing it. Maybe the 10 kinds of spren relate more to the 10 Heralds? Ishar wouldn't have had 3 types of spren while the other Heralds have just 1. And maybe we're having difficulty because at this point Shallan doesn't know enough to be a reliable narrator, even if the chamber wasn't so dark.

This is a great thread & question @Master_Moridin !

[BasementDwellingRadiant]

2 minutes ago, old aggie said:

I agree with some others that the "cloud bursting with energy and light" is Honor and the "woman in the shape of a tree" is Cultivation. I wonder if the "large blue disc" isn't a shardpool? No guess as to the "figure" embracing it. Maybe the 10 kinds of spren relate more to the 10 Heralds? Ishar wouldn't have had 3 types of spren while the other Heralds have just 1. And maybe we're having difficulty because at this point Shallan doesn't know enough to be a reliable narrator, even if the chamber wasn't so dark.

This is a great thread & question @Master_Moridin !

It sounds like the art we got of Ishar, actually...

Edited April 3, 2020 by BasementDwellingRadiant

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

If she saw it. That was not prime viewing time.

If she had time to notice ten spren you think she would think about the only one she recognized you know like "Oh, gloryspren."

As you can probably tell I don't subscribe to lesser spren theory.  

[+Invocation]

19 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If she had time to notice ten spren you think she would think about the only one she recognized you know like "Oh, gloryspren."

You'd think she would, yes, but Shallan isn't the most reliable narrator, nor is she always the most observant when flickering in and out of personalities like that. She loses track of time and the world around here, so it'd be no small stretch to say that she would have brushed right past a half-shadowed mural with gloryspren on it.

22 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

As you can probably tell I don't subscribe to lesser spren theory.  

I'm not completely beholden to the lesser spren theory either (I'm more in the camp of "we need more information still), but it makes sense aside from that theory why gloryspren would be used a symbol of the Bondsmiths: they were leaders. If you're going to be led by someone, especially if you had powers, you'd want them to be the best of you all, yeah? The pride and glory of the Orders would be the Bondsmiths. 

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Invocation said:

You'd think she would, yes, but Shallan isn't the most reliable narrator, nor is she always the most observant when flickering in and out of personalities like that. She loses track of time and the world around here, so it'd be no small stretch to say that she would have brushed right past a half-shadowed mural with gloryspren on it.

Fair point

[Truthless of Shinovar]

4 hours ago, Master_Moridin said:

“The art on the walls was more enigmatic. A solitary figure hovering above the ground before a large blue disc, arms stretched to the side as if to embrace it.”

Just gonna point out the similarity here...

 

 

Edit: Storms, @BasementDwellingRadiant beat me to the punch, but here’s the art!

Edited April 3, 2020 by Truthless of Shinovar

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

You'd think she would, yes, but Shallan isn't the most reliable narrator, nor is she always the most observant when flickering in and out of personalities like that. She loses track of time and the world around here, so it'd be no small stretch to say that she would have brushed right past a half-shadowed mural with gloryspren on it.

But she nearly always notices artwork just as Dalinar even when completely wasted notices martial implications.

Blue Disk guy might be Ishar communing with Honor to found the orders.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Karger

[teknopathetic]

Interesting how involved the moons seem in that painting...

[+asmodeus]

Brandon gave us an answer to this: here.

@Pagerunner, you might find it interesting, I think, that the Elantris portrait and the Urithiru mural both depict perpendicularities.

Edited April 3, 2020 by asmodeus

[Honorless]

50 minutes ago, asmodeus said:

Brandon gave us an answer to this: here.

Thanks for crossposting from Reddit, the rest of us lot who aren't on Reddit wouldn't have known

50 minutes ago, asmodeus said:

@Pagerunner, you might find it interesting, I think, that the Elantris portrait and the Urithiru mural both depict perpendicularities.

What Elantris portrait?

[Pagerunner]

Well, that saves me from having to dig up what I've posted before about these murals. Brandon's explanation has always seemed obvious to me, and I've never understood why other explanations were being floated. This also kills the connections between the moons and the Sibling, since they're entirely based on the perpendicularity mural.

Full text of Brandon's response, for those too lazy to click to Reddit:

Quote

If you were to see this picture, the painting of the three spren to make bondsmiths were made to make it visually clear they're the same kind of spren--and they KIND OF are.

The three you note above are not depicting the three spren of the Bondsmiths. One is depicting a perpendicularity, and the other two depicting Honor and Cultivation. These aren't the bondsmith spren, but distinct and separate pieces of art.

 

7 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

Thanks for crossposting from Reddit, the rest of us lot who aren't on Reddit wouldn't have known

What Elantris portrait?

There was a big worldhopping hint that had gone unnoticed for a while in Elantris:

Quote

Questioner

The prevailing theory on the 17th Shard is that [Hoid] worldhops using Shadesmar. I was wondering if you were willing to confirm or deny that?

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid has indeed gotten between worlds before through Shadesmar.

Questioner

And would you be willing to give us a hint as to how he does that?

Brandon Sanderson

There are hints in the books. There is a hint in the very first cosmere book I released [Elantris]. [...] Which I thought was a huge hint, but so far I haven't seen anyone talking about it.

Argent

Really?

Brandon Sanderson

Mmhmm. [...] I thought that once people started figuring the Cosmere, they would see the massive in-your-face hint I put in that book, but so far, as far as I know, no one has. *brief conversation about Brandon's tendency to drop sneaky hints and how he likes doing that* Now, the one [hint] about the map [of Roshar], that one I don't think is obvious. I know people have been trying to figure it out. It's something fun once you figure it out, but it's not something huge and obvious. The Elantris once was, like, enormously "HIIINT!"

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

Which Brandon later clarified as having to do with the murals:

Quote

unknown

1. Is the Aon that Raoden misinterpreted Rao?
2. If yes, does it mean "gateway" or something similar?

Brandon Sanderson

Which one are you talking about specifically?

WeiryWriter

If I'm understanding them correctly they are refering to the "Big Hint" you've said there is about Worldhopping in Elantris, which you later explained as being an Aon that Raoden misinterprets. They are proposing that the Aon is Aon Rao (I think?). At least that's my current guess (though my guess is that Rao actually translates to "Investiture").

Brandon Sanderson

 

Ah... They're on the wrong track.

I'll cut this one off right here, as I see they're misinterpreting what I said. It's more simple than that, and is something I think they have probably already figured out. The "Big Hint" I put back in Elantris are the murals Raoden and company discover. I believe this is what we're talking about, not the Aon being misinterpreted.

 

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 21, 2015)

Here is the passage in question:

Quote

"Over there," Karata said, pointing at the far end of the rectangular room, where the wall held only a single mural. It depicted a large mirrorlike blue oval. An Elantrian stood facing the oval, his arms outstretched and his eyes closed. He appeared to be flying toward the blue disk. The rest of the wall was black, though there was a large white sphere on the other side of the oval.

"Lake." The old Elantrian's voice was quiet but insistent.

...

"It's like the water was considered a gate of some sort," Galladon said, head cocked to the side.

There two murals are extremely similar - a blue, round object depicting a perpendicularity, open arms (which I believe is a depiction of Intent required to use the perp), and the hovering (which I'm less sure on, but I suspect it's about how using a perpendicularity is a form of transportation).

[Iarwainiel I]

16 hours ago, asmodeus said:

Brandon gave us an answer to this: here.

@Pagerunner, you might find it interesting, I think, that the Elantris portrait and the Urithiru mural both depict perpendicularities.

So the Urithuru mural (not the in-world painting of Ishar) does depict a shardpool or some kind of perpendicularity - huh; I'm usually wrong about everything, but this time I got it right.

It reminds me of the bottom of this illustration from Oathbringer - like the crescent at the left is actually a circle, and that's what's in the Urithuru mural:

I wonder if that painting of Ishar isn't based on an age-old misinterpretation of the mural in Urithuru - like, when they left there, people remembered the murals and made their own copies, and through the centuries the real meanings of the images were lost and other meanings got applied.

Always another secret in the Cosmere!

[Pete]

On 04/04/2020 at 2:48 PM, old aggie said:

So the Urithuru mural (not the in-world painting of Ishar) does depict a shardpool or some kind of perpendicularity - huh; I'm usually wrong about everything, but this time I got it right.

It reminds me of the bottom of this illustration from Oathbringer - like the crescent at the left is actually a circle, and that's what's in the Urithuru mural:

I wonder if that painting of Ishar isn't based on an age-old misinterpretation of the mural in Urithuru - like, when they left there, people remembered the murals and made their own copies, and through the centuries the real meanings of the images were lost and other meanings got applied.

Always another secret in the Cosmere!

Don't think I've seen this painting before. So much stuff in it! This to me is clearly a portal or perpendicularity, and seems to depict the human exodus to Roshar. But there are some elements that have me intrigued. There is what looks like a highstorm and green plants growing, which could represent the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher. If that is the case, what do the lion(?) and dragon represent? I don't recall anything so far that would be represented by those creatures, or even be known to an in world artist to get "creative" with. 

We know there are dragons in the Cosmere, but not clear on who might be one, or if they are present right now on Roshar. Lion though? 

Is there an opposing race to the dragons that we don't know about??

Has this painting been discussed in another thread before? So curious!

[teknopathetic]

Adolin has a vague recollection of the mythical animal called a Lion, so that cultural point has survived up until now. To me, the lion represents the human half of the world while the dragon represents the Singer portion  (Fur vs Scale).

Edited April 21, 2020 by teknopathetic

[Wyndle88]

On 03/04/2020 at 4:22 AM, Master_Moridin said:

So I was looking back through the scene where Shallan and gang is hunting the Midnight Essence and they come across that room covered in art, and I noticed something.

Shallan says there are murals that depict 10 kinds of spren and guesses they're for each Order. There's just one small issue. There's 12 Radiant spren. The Bondsmiths have 3 unique spren.

The passage in question with the relevant portion bolded.

So what do y'all think? Is there a representation of just one of the Bondsmith spren? Is it an abstract representstion of the idea of a Bondsmith spren? Is this a writing error and there was supposed to be 9, with the glowing cloud, tree woman, and figure in front of a circle intended to be the Bondsmith spren? Perhaps the Bondsmiths were supposed to be unrepresented?

I'm currently thinking either the second or third option, unsure though.

This makes perfect sense if of one of my theories. That Sibling is a collection of Guardian Sprens of Oathgates and a main one for Urithiru. The mural depicts the creation of Sibling.

Oathgates has two huge Sprens. These sprens are in in a gemstone. Thus each Oathgate is represented as one particular Spren making it 10, plus the Oathgate at Urithiru represented as 11th and the last one the Sibling itself which is the Spren for Urithiru itself.

One possible means of activating Sibling could be done after each of the Oathgate has been activated. Thus Sibling started to slumber once the Oathgate at Narak was used less and less. Maybe for Sibling's involvement all Oathgates have to be used periodically. At least most. 

 

[Master_Moridin]

4 hours ago, Wyndle88 said:

This makes perfect sense if of one of my theories. That Sibling is a collection of Guardian Sprens of Oathgates and a main one for Urithiru. The mural depicts the creation of Sibling.

Oathgates has two huge Sprens. These sprens are in in a gemstone. Thus each Oathgate is represented as one particular Spren making it 10, plus the Oathgate at Urithiru represented as 11th and the last one the Sibling itself which is the Spren for Urithiru itself.

One possible means of activating Sibling could be done after each of the Oathgate has been activated. Thus Sibling started to slumber once the Oathgate at Narak was used less and less. Maybe for Sibling's involvement all Oathgates have to be used periodically. At least most. 

 

Sorry to burst the bubble, but we already got an answer from Brandon, as outlined just...4+ posts above yours.

 

Quote

 

If you were to see this picture, the painting of the three spren to make bondsmiths were made to make it visually clear they're the same kind of spren--and they KIND OF are.

The three you note above are not depicting the three spren of the Bondsmiths. One is depicting a perpendicularity, and the other two depicting Honor and Cultivation. These aren't the bondsmith spren, but distinct and separate pieces of art.