WhiteEmporer Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 This is something my wife figured out (my wife is a Sanderfan, but not a forum person, so I'll post on her behalf ) The idea is that during the time of the Silver Kingdoms and the Radiants, the kingdoms are divided in such a way that each kingdom had its own specialization. Alethela (modern Alethkar) is the most obvious one Quote Every pasture needs three things. Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers--the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes. Quote One kingdom to study the arts of war so that the others might have peace. We die so that you may live. It has ever been our place. Of course, we can see the effects of this even in modern Alethkar, with its unusual focus on warfare. But upon examining some of the other nations that used to be in the Silver Kingdoms, you find nations that have kind of a hyperfocus on a certain area. Azir has a hyperdeveloped bureaucracy, Thaylena's expertise is sailing and trade. So we think that all ten of the Silver Kingdoms each had some kind of specialization. Perhaps each kingdom was associated with a related Knights Radiant order as well. What do you guys think? Did the Silver Kingdoms all have their own specialties? If so, what do you think some of them are? I'd love to know what you guys think! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintersu Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 I absolutely think you’re right. However, we don’t know a large amount about all the modern countries yet, so we can only make educated guesses. I’ll make a couple Shin: They seem to be hyper focused on farming Vedenar: Seems focused on culture/religion. They are often mentioned as being much more religious than the Alethi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Wintersu said: Shin: They seem to be hyper focused on farming I don't think the Shin should count, due to their whole historical deal with not lining up with the rest of Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, Invocation said: I don't think the Shin should count, due to their whole historical deal with not lining up with the rest of Roshar. Except we're talking about the Silver Kingdoms and the Desolations. Shin Kak Nish was one of the ten kingdoms, and the Shin split seems to have occurred at or after Aharietiam by what we can see. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Calderis said: Except we're talking about the Silver Kingdoms and the Desolations. Shin Kak Nish was one of the ten kingdoms, and the Shin split seems to have occurred at or after Aharietiam by what we can see. Oh right, my timeline was messed up. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 I don't think it was a simple as this kingdom does this. No kingdom could exclusively do one thing and hope to survive. I think the 10 kingdoms were each modeled after a different set of ideals in the belief that their diversity would help them prevail through the desolations. Also this made them dependent on one another. If we do go with your theory then Natanatan would be the kingdom of builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philomath she/her Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Karger said: I don't think it was a simple as this kingdom does this. No kingdom could exclusively do one thing and hope to survive. I think the 10 kingdoms were each modeled after a different set of ideals in the belief that their diversity would help them prevail through the desolations. Also this made them dependent on one another. If we do go with your theory then Natanatan would be the kingdom of builders. You’re right that one kingdom on its own couldn’t focus on an exclusive thing and survive. But they probably weren’t trying to survive on their own. They were probably doing a pretty good job of being a united Roshar (at least most of the humans) at the time. Similar to how Dalinar really gets his coalition going now. Thaylens in charge or trade, Alethi in charge of strategy and defense, Azir in charge of a code of conduct, etc. There is no way anyone comes out okay ina desolation on their own. Now they just need to unite with the Singers against the real enemy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteEmporer Posted April 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Philomath said: You’re right that one kingdom on its own couldn’t focus on an exclusive thing and survive. But they probably weren’t trying to survive on their own. They were probably doing a pretty good job of being a united Roshar (at least most of the humans) at the time. Similar to how Dalinar really gets his coalition going now. Thaylens in charge or trade, Alethi in charge of strategy and defense, Azir in charge of a code of conduct, etc. There is no way anyone comes out okay ina desolation on their own. Now they just need to unite with the Singers against the real enemy. That's kind of what I'm thinking. I can also see each kingdom serving as a guardian of sorts, keeping knowledge from being lost during destinations. Alethela guarded martial knowledge. As the radiant in Dalinar's vision says, Quote We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes. Makabakam (contained modern-day Azir) guarded their laws and bureaucracy. Thalath (contained modern-day Thaylenah) guarded trade/commerce (and sailing knowledge?) Not sure about the rest. I will add that the silver kingdoms didn't JUST do their specialty. I'm sure Thalath had soldiers and Alethela had laws. But each kingdom had a certain thing it was specially responsible for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyarmenatan Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Your wife's theory sounds very nice. I would rephrase it slightly - maybe Kingdoms had chosen Heralds as their informal patrons, like the Radiants did? Based on the Herald's attribute, they shaped their governments, policies, ways of living etc. Another example of having particular focus on some arts while postponing the other is Kharbranth with their famous hospitals / surgeons (so Battar?), and also the Paleneum (Palliah?). As for the Kingdoms being unable to survive by focusing on only one thing, I believe Oathgates might cover that for a bit. No reason to build univerities and maintain hospitals in Vedenar or Kholinar, when you can have surgeons available at request via Oathgate from Kharbranth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hyarmenatan said: Kharbranth with their famous hospitals / surgeons (so Battar?) Vedel. Per Taln, Vedel would train surgeons before a Desolation. Edited April 7, 2019 by The One Who Connects Post 3300! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Quote Personification [PENDING REVIEW] With the ten Silver Kingdoms, what were actually their roles and what kingdoms did they correspond to *inaudible*? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Well, what do you mean by correspond? Personification [PENDING REVIEW] Did the ten Silver Kingdoms each have a job like Alethela was the kingdom of War? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] They would all consider themselves specialized but it wasn't official like that. It was more like their own philosophy and how they view themselves. And I wouldn't align them straight up with orders of Knights Radiant or anything like that. Personification [PENDING REVIEW] I wasn't saying that, I was saying, maybe different job or it was like-- Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] They all did kind of have different roles but its not like they had any-- you know, Thaylenah is your navy, right? Its not necessarily that it's-- if that makes sense, but Alethela has like the view of itself, it had a very distinctive view of itself. Personification [PENDING REVIEW] Okay, so it wasn't like each one actually had a different role? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, they were not quite, quite, organized enough for that. Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 I always kind of felt (though I have nothing to support it, and Rshara's WoB might dispute it), that the reason we see kingdoms kind of lean one way or the other was due to the diaspora from Urithiru. I could see windrunners and stonewards primarily settling in Alethkar, while elsecallers and skybreakers primarily settled in Azir and so on. The tenets and focus of the orders influenced the cultures of the lands that primarily took them in. Just a random thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Sorry that I didn't add any commentary to it. Been sick and wasn't up to it. But basically, it sounds like each kingdom did have some specialization, but it wasn't formal or organized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darvys Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 You'd be hard pressed i think to find 10 "roles" that each kingdom could realistically claim to specialize in without some of them sounding foolish, it was probably just a matter of inclinations based on geographical location, the most obvious being Shinovar with it's sheltered and easily farmed land and Thaylenah as the naval powerhouse, other than that you'll have scholars aggregating here and there which could make for some interesting hubs but nothing on a scale that a Kingdom would derive its identity from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Welcome to Rishir - Kingdom of doing huge cannonballs off the back of monsters into the ocean, clothing optional. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 I could buy Natanatan specializing in engineering and construction. In Hoid's Moon Story he mentioned Natan having very tall towers, and said towers had to be built to withstand the full force of a fresh Highstorm. Valhav is the center of Vorin religion and culture. I guess this would translate to spiritual support of the population and the diverse functions that the medieval church preformed The western non-Vorin countries, I just don't think we know enough about yet to make even abstract guess beyond Makabakam focusing on administration/organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightDarkness6 Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 It might be interesting to consider that the heralds other than Talenelat were all Kings and this might have something to do with the nations specialization or focus on one particular radiant order. They may not have known the heralds were their kings but if they brought their culture and ideology to the order of knights that they founded then it would make sense for their kingdoms to recognize aspects of their culture in the ideals of that order and identify further. This seems to me, if you are thinking of the kingdoms "choosing informal patrons", that there might be a bigger or more natural connection between the nations and the heralds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol he/him Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BrightDarkness6 said: It might be interesting to consider that the heralds other than Talenelat were all Kings They weren't all kings. Some of em were. But others, were Generals or Scholars. Then theres Taln. The lone Soldier/bodyguard Edited April 7, 2020 by Eternal Khol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNoSell Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/7/2019 at 4:17 PM, Hyarmenatan said: I would rephrase it slightly - maybe Kingdoms had chosen Heralds as their informal patrons, like the Radiants did? Based on the Herald's attribute, they shaped their governments, policies, ways of living etc. I really like this theory as it would coincide with how the Heralds returned. We know Taln came back not just in what remains of Alethela(Alethkar) but in Kholinar, the country's capital. That may be a huge coincidence but I don't think it'd be far fetched to say that each Herald might 'respawn' in a different Silver Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol he/him Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 2 hours ago, BrightLordSwageas said: I really like this theory as it would coincide with how the Heralds returned. We know Taln came back not just in what remains of Alethela(Alethkar) but in Kholinar, the country's capital. That may be a huge coincidence but I don't think it'd be far fetched to say that each Herald might 'respawn' in a different Silver Kingdom. The Desolation is announced be "Ten Heralds" I doubt that each herald came back in different kingdoms. All ten would be together or people would be like "who is this random crazy person, ranting about the desolation coming?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNoSell Posted April 8, 2020 Report Share Posted April 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said: The Desolation is announced be "Ten Heralds" Why? Do you have evidence that directly contradicts this or just personal doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextStep Posted April 9, 2020 Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 I have a similar theory that I posted about a while back: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gderu Posted April 9, 2020 Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 On 4/8/2020 at 10:07 PM, Eternal Khol said: The Desolation is announced be "Ten Heralds" I doubt that each herald came back in different kingdoms. All ten would be together or people would be like "who is this random crazy person, ranting about the desolation coming?" Well, these heralds would have honorblades, so it wouldn't be hard to recognize them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol he/him Posted April 9, 2020 Report Share Posted April 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Gderu said: Well, these heralds would have honorblades, so it wouldn't be hard to recognize them. Got me there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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