Dawn of a New Era

[+Sorana]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Foxed said:

Basically, the DA protects the place from threats and criminals, and TUBA protects the place from the DA (anyone reminded of Dresden Files now?).

Definitly.

[MetaTerminal]

I think a draft of your laws would be an excellent starting point.

The difference between a centralised government controlled by multiple political factions and a police force controlled by a single person is that the distribution of power is a lot different. When you first proposed the idea, a codified government was not on people’s minds, and most of us assumed you’d basically be following your own laws. Now that a government exists, a police force would be a much more reasonable idea.

1 minute ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Ps. If anyone who is an actual lawyer and not a teen ager wnats to take over, tell me.

They’re not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[old man moomba]

Yes, what if I am both a lawyer and a teenager?

[kenod]

Then I'm wondering how many grades you skipped in high school and middle school.

[old man moomba]

Shhhh. 

[Furamirionind]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

Yes, what if I am both a lawyer and a teenager?

I have had the nickname "lawyer" since I was 12. (Because I was depressing to talk to, but usually correct. Lol)

I could be wrong, but Lawyers have really difficult time intensive jobs. (Thats why they make so much money) because of that, I find it unlikely we will find a lawyer in the alleyverse as it also takes a lot of time.

@Darth Woodrack I am new, what is the Citadel?

I think it would be a good idea for the government to have a police force, and having them be PCs instead of NPCs could allow for some fun RP.  The specifics we should discuss though, as you said the police force is a guild of sorts. This guild should then probably be prevented from ever becoming a Great Guild.  There will also be many laws in the government regulating said police force, and what those are should probably be discussed sooner rather than later. (These laws would be part of setting the government up, but could be changed later in-world)

Also, please remember that the OOC purpose of the government is not to make rules.  And the OOC purpose of these rules is not to catch people breaking the law. Both of these things is to incite another layer of diplomatic RP and inter guild conflict.  If you want to PM me your draft of laws, I would love to read them.  However, if they are not purely part of setting up the government, I would suggest we wait to implement them, and then you should try to convince the Chancellor IC to draft those laws inworld.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Furamirionind

[+Sorana]

5 hours ago, Ookla the Libre said:

I agreed with this completely. And if anyone wants their character to survive, just pop 'em in a cadmium bubble!

 

You could also have them leave the Alleyverse and return, for those that easily pop a cadmium bubble. Since the timelines aren't really alinged it could be explained by some interferences or something like that. At least in my head it could theoretically work, I'm happy to be corrected.

But in the end the question is, if we really need to make a 100 year timeskip and then look for ways around it. Then we could always make a shorter one and simply keep the powerlevel down, by agreeing to keep it down.

[Mraize]

of course I voted for a Mraizearchy.....

[Karnatheon]

I agree that another good reason for us to work together is taking care of the city itself. Also, I believe the point of the government we would be establishing is to create laws, and keep the peace. So yes the laws should be something that are created and judged in RP. Whatever government we end up with shouldn't just take an existing thing and put it in place. Everyone is going to have their own input, and how much that input affects things is going to be dependant upon how the power shifts based off voters. I think this is all going to be amazingly fun to work with. I can't wait.

[Furamirionind]

Who voted for communism? You guys would probably prefer a dictatorship to that...

Democracy - rule by the mob - every in world person would get a vote, every NPC technically should as well. All of these people have to vote on everything. (Example of this is Athens)

Pros: encourages everyone to be involved in politics. Everyone gets a say.

Cons: there is no movement of power. 

 

Republic - representatives make decisions - people/guilds elect specific people to make laws. (Examples: USA, Canada, UK, EU, Romans)

Pros: lots of power changes. encourages guild politics instead of person politics. Having people voting for other people forces campaigning, speeches, favors given out, etc.

Cons: individuals are less involved in the politics unless they are either up for election, or their guild's representative.

 

Monarchy - you have a king/queen. In office.  The title moves down to that person's heir after the king/queen dies.

Pros: it is simple

Cons: litterally no political involvement for players unless you are king/queen or their Heir. The king/queen has absolute authority. So if they wanted to create a law "just because", they could.  The only way to remove the current authority from power is a war. That is the only way.

 

Communism - this technically is much more than a political system.  This is also an economic system... However as I dont see much of an economy in the alleyverse, we shouldnt pick communism.  Purely looking at the political side though, this is what is:

Communism (politically only) is when you have 1 party (guild) in control of everything. There are elections, but only to move power around in that single party, not between parties.  If we chose this, we would have 1 guild having executive power over everything. This system commonly turns into a dictatorship, as there is SO much power at the top, and none distributed.

I don't think I need to list pros and cons for this do I? You can probably see there isnt much of a point on the political side.  If we had an economy, the economic system of communism is Socialism, which may be interesting to RP. But we could throw socialism into any political system, we don't need communism for that.

 

Dictatorship - while this is differant in theory from a monarchy, it works basically the same. 100% power in 1 role. No power anywhere else. Has the same pros and cons of monarchy.  The biggest differance is that a monarchy can be abused, but a dictatorship is a system with the majority of power in 1 role AND that role is being abused.

In my republic proposal, each Great Guild evenly distributes power. This is so we don't get a dictatorships.

 

Mraizearchy - I know this is a joke, but can someone please explain to me what this is? Thanks! Lol.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Furamirionind

[kenod]

3 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Mraizearchy - I know this is a joke, but can someone please explain to me what this is? Thanks! Lol.

Fairly literal translation, something ruled by Mraize. So basically it's the dictatorship/monarchy option, but with Mraize already elected as leader by default.

Edit: Sorry, confused with Mraizeocracy. I do think that is the thing meant by the term though.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ookla the Foxed

[MacThorstenson]

27 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Who voted for communism? You guys would probably prefer a dictatorship to that...

 

I did! Mainly because there’s about a 1/3 chance that I end up in the ruling guild. 

[Darth Woodrack]

I voted for democracy, because I was too tired to think, and I wouldn't be the TUBA representative for Republic.

[Karnatheon]

But in a Republic even if you aren't the representative you still have power by voting to determine who the representative is. Probably more power because your one vote out of every character is probably less influential than the vote you have in determining rep. Also the rep would still be working for the benefit of TUBA, which benefits you.

[Furamirionind]

20 minutes ago, Ookla the [REDACTED] said:

I did! Mainly because there’s about a 1/3 chance that I end up in the ruling guild. 

Ok... well, I suppose you have reason... though perhaps you would prefer a monarchy? As that would technically be the correct political system for what you want...

Starting this moment, I am starting up a new contracting business, "LawyersRUs" if you have any questions or would like to contract my services, feel free to PM me. ; )

Would it be possible to restart the government type voting? Partly because certain ones (dictatorship, communism, and I will put Mraizearchy here because people are actually voting for it) should not be options.

The three options that should exist at the moment are "democracy - power of the mob", "republic - power of the guilds", and "monarchy - power of a single individual".  I personally think having the others up there are misleading.

Whatever actual details for the government we use will depend on which of those three wins.  I have been working a lot on my idea, but we can only use it if we decide on a republic... so... naturally I will be pushing hard for that...

12 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

I voted for democracy, because I was too tired to think, and I wouldn't be the TUBA representative for Republic.

I was trying to set my system up in a way where the representatives would not be the higher ups in a guild.  Those people won't have time for politics.  Instead the guild should choose who they think will have the best chance of politicking.  Alternatively, we could have it so that multiple people from each guild can be a representative, based on how many active players they have.

Also remember, you don't have to be a rep to make political impacts. You would be influencing the campaigns and inter guild voting during elections.  And in between elections, you can talk to other representatives, bargain, etc.  The rep will definitely be doing most of that, but if people in the guilds also do that, it will increase the chances of your guild getting a desirable law passed in their favor.

Most importantly, there will be politics inside a guild trying to determine if they want to keep the same rep or try a new one.  Convincing your guild to make you the next rep is also a factor in this.

(GB, please make me your rep! : )   ... ... ... even though I am new : )     )

Edited December 13, 2018 by Furamirionind

[kenod]

There's also the fact that if one of the guilds drops in members count you'll still have a stable political presence. As for independent folks being underrepresented in the republic system, this could either be an incentive to join a guild, or we could have a non-aligned guild, basically a guild that internally uses democracy to decide on what their representative should vote, and that doesn't have a greater goal, aside from giving independent folks a vote.

[Furamirionind]

1 minute ago, kenod said:

There's also the fact that if one of the guilds drops in members count you'll still have a stable political presence. As for independent folks being underrepresented in the republic system, this could either be an incentive to join a guild, or we could have a non-aligned guild, basically a guild that internally uses democracy to decide on what their representative should vote, and that doesn't have a greater goal, aside from giving independent folks a vote.

I really like this idea, but even if these people don't want to join a guild at all (even a neutral one), they can still try to reason with the government officials to try to get their opinions through court.

[Darth Woodrack]

Does anyone else think of 'Dawn of the Mutant era' from the gifted whenever they see this thread, or is it just me?

[kenod]

True, also, perhaps instead of only the great guilds getting a rep, we could have each guild get reps based on status? So great guilds would have a larger number of votes, but the smaller guilds still have a say. This would be a bit like places like the British house of commons, where you have two large parties (Conservatives and Labour), but also a number of smaller parties that do actually play some sort of role in the decision making process (e.g. The current British government only has a majority because of the support of the smaller DUP party).

[Furamirionind]

I like that idea too. If we do go down the path of a republic, I would be willing to do a TON of research and development of a few different gov ideas with differing amounts of power split between individuals and guilds. The one I have mentioned so far is just a starting point.  I want to do all that now, but I am still slightly concerned that people don't want a republic, and in that case all my time would be wasted...

However I will be adamant about the fact that each RPer should only have 1 spot maximum in the government.  That should be a hard and fast rule not subject to change by the government.  This is just to prevent people from taking over and becoming dictator. That doesn't sound like fun to me, unless we intentionally set it up that way.

[MacThorstenson]

I had an idea for a legislature with 2 levels.  It would fit the republic idea, but would help smaller guilds remain involved in the government. One is for the great guilds, the other for the rest. 

In the one for great guilds, each great guild gets one rep. 

In the one for the other guilds, they get some form of proportional representation. 

The thing is, each RPer can only count toward 1 guild, so if you count toward making your guild a great guild, whatever that means, you can’t count toward any other guilds, great or not.

Essentially, every law that either group tries to pass has to make it through both groups, unless the group that started it gets unanimous agreement. 

 

 

I also also think that normal guilds would need to Be more than one person for them to be allowed in the legislature. 

[+Ark1002]

OOH, OOH. Can I run for president?
Ark for prez, 2018.

[old man moomba]

25 minutes ago, Ookla the [REDACTED] said:

I had an idea for a legislature with 2 levels.  It would fit the republic idea, but would help smaller guilds remain involved in the government. One is for the great guilds, the other for the rest. 

In the one for great guilds, each great guild gets one rep. 

In the one for the other guilds, they get some form of proportional representation. 

The thing is, each RPer can only count toward 1 guild, so if you count toward making your guild a great guild, whatever that means, you can’t count toward any other guilds, great or not.

Essentially, every law that either group tries to pass has to make it through both groups, unless the group that started it gets unanimous agreement. 

 

 

I also also think that normal guilds would need to Be more than one person for them to be allowed in the legislature. 

Senate and house, basicly. 

I really like this idea, and I think it could work, it just needs to be fleshed out. We need:

- A way for laws to be introduced.

- Agreements on what makes a Great Guild

- A way to break ties 

My ideas

- A guild needs to be approved by the people to enter the government.

- Each assembly should have certain responsibilties (Defence, justice, ect.)

- Some stuff (Important regulations) would need to put to a vote by the people. 

 

(I love lists)

 

[MacThorstenson]

1 minute ago, Dr. Dapper said:

Senate and house, basicly. 

I really like this idea, and I think it could work, it just needs to be fleshed out. We need:

- A way for laws to be introduced.

- Agreements on what makes a Great Guild

- A way to break ties 

My ideas

- A guild needs to be approved by the people to enter the government.

- Each assembly should have certain responsibilties (Defence, justice, ect.)

- Some stuff (Important regulations) would need to put to a vote by the people. 

 

(I love lists)

 

The great guild topic is going to be determined by a guild having a certain number of rpers. RPers will only be able to be counted once, so they can’t add to the memberships of a bunch of guilds. 

At least I think that that’s where the discussion is rn. 

[Archer]

5 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

Republic - representatives make decisions - people/guilds elect specific people to make laws. (Examples: USA, Canada, UK, EU, Romans)

HOW DARE YOU!?! That's outright slander. Canada is not a republic. We're a constitutional monarchy, and proud to be one. Her Majesty plays a very important role in our government. Without her assent, no laws could be passed. She also *mumble mumble* face on coins *mumble mumble* statutory holidays. And she appoints Governor Generals, which have the very important role of appointing Lieutenant Governor Generals. Otherwise, former astronauts would go unemployed. France is a republic. USA is a republic. The UK, Canada, Australia* are not. 

*because of some clever vote splitting during the referendum

Spoiler

In all seriousness, the Queen's representative decides who gets to form government at the federal level. After an election, she gets to choose who gets first dibs on trying to pass a confidence vote, making them the ruling party. This is important when the margin of victory is slim. The LGGs do the same on a provincial level. And though they have never used this power, they can also chose not to approve laws. We like to think that's an important check on the government's power. Just wanted to clear that up.

I like how this conversation is going. Keep up the good work! And I agree with counting by RPer, not character, during votes.