Navani's 2nd Ideal

[Quantus he/him]

In Oathbringer, Navani has a POV scene during the alliance meeting where she keeps repeating the same mantra to herself:  "Bring Order from the Chaos"

This sounds suspiciously like a Radiant Ideal to me.  My first thought was that it sounded like exactly the sort of 2nd Ideal that I would expect Elsecallers to speak, it sounds right up the thematic alley of the Inkspren.

 

On the other hand, I really want Navani to be the Nightmother's Bondsmith, and I fully expect their Ideals to be more unique than average since their three Spren are all very unique.

All that to say that while Im very biased, I could still get behind the idea that "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." is the Honor-skewed version, but that the you could express the same abstract with "Bring Order from the Chaos"  from a more Cultivating perspective. 

Thoughts?

Edited November 29, 2018 by Quantus
grammar...

[Gasper he/him]

Yikes, I never noticed that. I would say that does have a Oath-like quality to it. I lean away from the Bondmsmiths unless it is somehow related to Urithiru and the Sibling, but we do not have the proper knowledge to make a decision on that matter. The Elsecallers make sense given that Navani is planner and a scholar, something that the Inkspren are attracted to. In short, Yes, I think you are on to something.

[Yezrien]

Nice catch. I've always liked the Navani-for-Bondsmith theory. If Urithiru is one giant Sibling-powered fabrial, who better to bond the sibling than a leading fabrial scientist?

[+robardin he/him]

37 minutes ago, Ookla the Apostate said:

Nice catch. I've always liked the Navani-for-Bondsmith theory. If Urithiru is one giant Sibling-powered fabrial, who better to bond the sibling than a leading fabrial scientist?

Wait, is the Navani-as-Bondsmith theory having her bond the Sibling, or the Nightwatcher?

I guess it does make sense that it'd be the sleeping Silbing, being as Navani is a fabrialist (fabriatrician? Fabriafabricant?) currently living in Urithiru.

But then, who's going to bond the Nightwatcher? For is it not written, Three shall be the number of Bondsmiths; and the number of Bondsmiths shall be three: four shall there not be, nor either two, unless we then proceed directly to three?

[Lidolas he/him]

26 minutes ago, robardin said:

Wait, is the Navani-as-Bondsmith theory having her bond the Sibling, or the Nightwatcher?

I guess it does make sense that it'd be the sleeping Silbing, being as Navani is a fabrialist (fabriatrician? Fabriafabricant?) currently living in Urithiru.

But then, who's going to bond the Nightwatcher? For is it not written, Three shall be the number of Bondsmiths; and the number of Bondsmiths shall be three: four shall there not be, nor either two, unless we then proceed directly to three?

I like the idea of Navani bonding the Sibling.  If we get a third Bondsmith for the Nightwatcher, my hope would be for Rysn.  It would be a great arc for her to gain 'a position of power.'

[Weltall]

47 minutes ago, robardin said:

But then, who's going to bond the Nightwatcher? For is it not written, Three shall be the number of Bondsmiths; and the number of Bondsmiths shall be three: four shall there not be, nor either two, unless we then proceed directly to three?

And five is right out!

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Wait, is the Navani-as-Bondsmith theory having her bond the Sibling, or the Nightwatcher?

I guess it does make sense that it'd be the sleeping Silbing, being as Navani is a fabrialist (fabriatrician? Fabriafabricant?) currently living in Urithiru.

But then, who's going to bond the Nightwatcher? For is it not written, Three shall be the number of Bondsmiths; and the number of Bondsmiths shall be three: four shall there not be, nor either two, unless we then proceed directly to three?

Ive seen it both ways: Her bonding the Sibling makes sense via the Fabrial connection, while the Nightmother side is more about her Maternally commanding nature along with her engineer's mind, which I see as very much a form of Cultivation (if striped of the normal farmer/organic connotation).  I also prefer for Navani for the Nightmother simply because I prefer Rlain for the Sibling. 

Though the flip side is that I would kind of rather not see too much of a Kholin Dynasty forming over the Radiants, which is the only thing that makes me lean away from Navani entirely for one of the Bondsmith positions.

EDIT:  The other thing, and this is more a thematic feeling than anything solid, is from that scene where Dalinar uses essays written by both Navani and Jasnah. The differences between their writing, with Jasnah's being a work of Intellectual Art while Navai's was more "Authentic", and far more focused on the practical, seems like it could be a reasonable difference between the more purely intellectual and/or scientific Elscallers and what you'd expect from (what I expect to be) Cultivation's Bondsmith. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Quantus

[MountainKing]

50 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Ive seen it both ways: Her bonding the Sibling makes sense via the Fabrial connection, while the Nightmother side is more about her Maternally commanding nature along with her engineer's mind, which I see as very much a form of Cultivation (if striped of the normal farmer/organic connotation).  I also prefer for Navani for the Nightmother simply because I prefer Rlain for the Sibling. 

Though the flip side is that I would kind of rather not see too much of a Kholin Dynasty forming over the Radiants, which is the only thing that makes me lean away from Navani entirely for one of the Bondsmith positions.

EDIT:  The other thing, and this is more a thematic feeling than anything solid, is from that scene where Dalinar uses essays written by both Navani and Jasnah. The differences between their writing, with Jasnah's being a work of Intellectual Art while Navai's was more "Authentic", and far more focused on the practical, seems like it could be a reasonable difference between the more purely intellectual and/or scientific Elscallers and what you'd expect from (what I expect to be) Cultivation's Bondsmith. 

 I have to agree there are already to many Kholins radiant, but I kind of want Navani to bond the Nighwatcher.

[Gasper he/him]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Ive seen it both ways: Her bonding the Sibling makes sense via the Fabrial connection, while the Nightmother side is more about her Maternally commanding nature along with her engineer's mind, which I see as very much a form of Cultivation (if striped of the normal farmer/organic connotation).  I also prefer for Navani for the Nightmother simply because I prefer Rlain for the Sibling. 

Though the flip side is that I would kind of rather not see too much of a Kholin Dynasty forming over the Radiants, which is the only thing that makes me lean away from Navani entirely for one of the Bondsmith positions.

EDIT:  The other thing, and this is more a thematic feeling than anything solid, is from that scene where Dalinar uses essays written by both Navani and Jasnah. The differences between their writing, with Jasnah's being a work of Intellectual Art while Navai's was more "Authentic", and far more focused on the practical, seems like it could be a reasonable difference between the more purely intellectual and/or scientific Elscallers and what you'd expect from (what I expect to be) Cultivation's Bondsmith. 

The thing is, the spren might not care about a dynasty of Kholins. They are attracted to people who have the potential to hold the Oaths particular to the spren they are bonding. With the Kholins, as a rule, being honorable and capable of large amount of personal growth, it is no small wonder that they attract spren. Also, they surround themselves with people who attract spren, like Bridge 4 and Shallan's little band of (former...sort of) criminals. 

[Quantus he/him]

58 minutes ago, Gasper said:

The thing is, the spren might not care about a dynasty of Kholins. They are attracted to people who have the potential to hold the Oaths particular to the spren they are bonding. With the Kholins, as a rule, being honorable and capable of large amount of personal growth, it is no small wonder that they attract spren. Also, they surround themselves with people who attract spren, like Bridge 4 and Shallan's little band of (former...sort of) criminals. 

Oh, I absolutely dont think they'd care about a Dynasty, unless maybe they were a fan of the additional Connections that would represent.  That was a pure Doylistic statement on how I'd like the story play out.  I also am glad Star Wars seems to be moving away from the Skywalker dynasty model, for the same general reasons.  

[Fezzik]

6 hours ago, robardin said:

Navani is a fabrialist (fabriatrician? Fabriafabricant

Artifabrian.

[Use the Falchion]

8 hours ago, robardin said:

Wait, is the Navani-as-Bondsmith theory having her bond the Sibling, or the Nightwatcher?

I guess it does make sense that it'd be the sleeping Silbing, being as Navani is a fabrialist (fabriatrician? Fabriafabricant?) currently living in Urithiru.

But then, who's going to bond the Nightwatcher? For is it not written, Three shall be the number of Bondsmiths; and the number of Bondsmiths shall be three: four shall there not be, nor either two, unless we then proceed directly to three?

Plot-Twist, Navani by saying that has bonded with The Sibling. But since they are asleep, the bond hasn't granted any...benefits yet.

I also have a low-key theory that Sja-Anat might break the trend and make it possible for there to be a fourth Bondsmith.

9 hours ago, Quantus said:

In Oathbringer, Navani has a POV scene during the alliance meeting where she keeps repeating the same mantra to herself:  "Bring Order from the Chaos"

This sounds suspiciously like a Radiant Ideal to me.  My first thought was that it sounded like exactly the sort of 2nd Ideal that I would expect Elsecallers to speak, it sounds right up the thematic alley of the Inkspren.

 

On the other hand, I really want Navani to be the Nightmother's Bondsmith, and I fully expect their Ideals to be more unique than average since their three Spren are all very unique.

All that to say that while Im very biased, I could still get behind the idea that "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." is the Honor-skewed version, but that the you could express the same abstract with "Bring Order from the Chaos"  from a more Cultivating perspective. 

Thoughts?

In terms of Navani, it's difficult. Rock kinda has the same thought process, but within Bridge Four and with the connection with the Horneater Peaks him going this route makes sense; and we NEED a Listener Bondsmith and The Sibling makes a lot of sense at the moment. So Navani going the Elsecaller path is a great idea! I just feel like we don't know enough at the moment.

 

Double Plot-Twist - Navani is the first Dual Radiant we see (although that Glory Spren interaction with Kaladin towards the beginning of OB might lend credence to him being a Bondsmith too...)

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Well whoever bonds Nightwatcher will have a hard time corralling Lyft. She seems to have a stronger Connection to Cultivation than a typical Edgedancer is granted, almost as if Culti is setting up a rival to the KR she helped create.

[Calderis he/him]

"bring order from chaos" sounds very Willshaper to me, and that fits her as an artifabrian. The whole "Builder" artribute. 

[Ciridae]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

"bring order from chaos" sounds very Willshaper to me, and that fits her as an artifabrian. The whole "Builder" artribute. 

I don't know. It's possible, but the way Willshapers are described I feel like they'd be fine with a bit of chaos. But then again taking chaos and rolling with it and making the best out of it does sound Willshaper-y to me. And I do like Navani as a Willshaper too. 

[ScavellTane]

If that is a Willshaper oath, how would it relate to Venli?

[Quantus he/him]

57 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

If that is a Willshaper oath, how would it relate to Venli?

Have you SEEN the state of the Singer race right now?