The Chat Thread

[Voidus]

As mentioned the problem I would have with the other side of the world is two fold: Separation and Scale.

It's not large enough to really support more than one or two additional settings so it can't necessarily scale too well in either quantity or variety.
It's not fully separated, as I mentioned there are a number of ways anyone could get across and given that some of those ways can work for anyone with no effective cost they can just be handwaved by people without much difficulty. We've already had people travel to the other side and back.

It does sound like a few people want to at least try it out so I'll be adopting Kenod's suggestion, I'll speak with the other mods and we'll see about creating a couple of test threads.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:00 PM, Voidus said:

Additionally economic restrictions aren't likely to make a difference in a world where everyone has functionally infinite money given that we're not tracking it

On 2/17/2019 at 0:12 AM, Nohadon said:

*ahem*

Devaan, I would help you keep track! Just have people submit there average annual income, and then the two of us, and maybe one or two more people can keep track in a shared google doc where only the 2-3 of us have edit access, but everyone else can see it.

On 2/17/2019 at 9:51 AM, Ark1002 said:

I'm against it.

It won't help much, as most people will be in multiple universes, and just makes it even more complicated, and I think that's going a step too far.

I agree with this, and this has nothing to do with you shooting down my sci-fi planet idea. I'm lying. Alternate universes will make it more complicated, and won't stop people from flicking around. The most you could do, in my opinion, is that when you enter a plot you have to state whether you are a short term memebr, or a long term member. Short term members will stay until they need there character to be somewhere else, and long term members will see the plot through, unless that character is absolutely required for a main plot. Note; I am not saying that if you are a longterm member you will stay until the thread goes inactive, I am saying that you have to stay until the current problem has been resolved. Like, in the Rebublic of the Alleyverse, a vote, or in the hunt or the Jackal, a mission. I think this works for the randomness of character locations.

Ps: I missed pages 40-41.

I see no reason why Destiny should be approved. It doesn't fit in the plot, isn't long standing, and adds way to much. To mayn weird magic stuff, and teleportation.

[Voidus]

10 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Devaan, I would help you keep track! Just have people submit there average annual income, and then the two of us, and maybe one or two more people can keep track in a shared google doc where only the 2-3 of us have edit access, but everyone else can see it.

I agree with this, and this has nothing to do with you shooting down my sci-fi planet idea. I'm lying. Alternate universes will make it more complicated, and won't stop people from flicking around. The most you could do, in my opinion, is that when you enter a plot you have to state whether you are a short term memebr, or a long term member. Short term members will stay until they need there character to be somewhere else, and long term members will see the plot through, unless that character is absolutely required for a main plot. Note; I am not saying that if you are a longterm member you will stay until the thread goes inactive, I am saying that you have to stay until the current problem has been resolved. Like, in the Rebublic of the Alleyverse, a vote, or in the hunt or the Jackal, a mission. I think this works for the randomness of character locations.

Ps: I missed pages 40-41.

I see no reason why Destiny should be approved. It doesn't fit in the plot, isn't long standing, and adds way to much. To mayn weird magic stuff, and teleportation.

I will say, one of my original thoughts that inspired this line of thinking was because you had a number of people supporting a sci-fi planet, just not enough for a majority, this would be a way for a minority of players to have a setting that was a little contentious with the majority but still linked to the RP.

I'm also proposing absolute limits of temporal displacement that can't be overcome. People can't flit from one thread to another because it's literally impossible, and just like if they tried to do anything else that's impossible, the mods would step in if needed and establish that a post was retconned due to implausibility.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

Wait, so if we do this, we could do the sci-fi planet? If we do that, we could put Destiny and Halo on it. I don't think we we can do Destiny in the main Alleyverse though. It just has to much stuff that doesn't fit into the main Alleyverse. Essentially, take all the problems with Halo, and multiply them by ten.

[+Ark1002]

3 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Wait, so if we do this, we could do the sci-fi planet? If we do that, we could put Destiny and Halo on it. I don't think we we can do Destiny in the main Alleyverse though. It just has to much stuff that doesn't fit into the main Alleyverse. Essentially, take all the problems with Halo, and multiply them by ten.

Not really. It fits better than Halo did. I'm still against it though.

[old man moomba he/him]

*leaves for the Worldbuilding Workshop*

[+Sorana she/her]

5 hours ago, Voidus said:

I'm also proposing absolute limits of temporal displacement that can't be overcome. People can't flit from one thread to another because it's literally impossible, and just like if they tried to do anything else that's impossible, the mods would step in if needed and establish that a post was retconned due to implausibility.

So that means if I end up in a thread which pace is so fast, that I can't participate, I've "lost" my character? Oh wow. That's hard.

[Snipexe he/him]

1 hour ago, Sorana said:

So that means if I end up in a thread which pace is so fast, that I can't participate, I've "lost" my character? Oh wow. That's hard.

I think what Voidus means is that there will be a hard limit of the number of plots/threads a character can be involved in at the same time because it is impossible for a character to be in 2 places at once. I might be misunderstanding, but this what it reads as to me.

[Nohadon he/him]

8 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Devaan, I would help you keep track! Just have people submit there average annual income, and then the two of us, and maybe one or two more people can keep track in a shared google doc where only the 2-3 of us have edit access, but everyone else can see it.

I don’t know how to react to being referred to as Devaan, but I run a system called Chrysts in the alleyverse (there’s a bank thread  that’s inactive, but private transactions are still being used, there is a rudimentary economy) I suggest that you take care of The public transactions while I take care of the more sensitive and confidential ones. I would love your help.

[I think I am here. he/him]

9 minutes ago, Nohadon said:

I don’t know how to react to being referred to as Devaan,

 Sometimes I call you Devaan in my head, and just barely stop myself from typing it out. In fact, I’ve read Darth’s message so many times today and I didn’t even know something was off until you said it.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

14 hours ago, Voidus said:

I will say, one of my original thoughts that inspired this line of thinking was because you had a number of people supporting a sci-fi planet, just not enough for a majority, this would be a way for a minority of players to have a setting that was a little contentious with the majority but still linked to the RP.

I'm also proposing absolute limits of temporal displacement that can't be overcome. People can't flit from one thread to another because it's literally impossible, and just like if they tried to do anything else that's impossible, the mods would step in if needed and establish that a post was retconned due to implausibility.

I think people can be trusted to keep from interfering when people don't want them to. We don't need to make it impossible to ever enter or leave during the plot.

14 hours ago, Voidus said:

As mentioned the problem I would have with the other side of the world is two fold: Separation and Scale.

It's not large enough to really support more than one or two additional settings so it can't necessarily scale too well in either quantity or variety.
It's not fully separated, as I mentioned there are a number of ways anyone could get across and given that some of those ways can work for anyone with no effective cost they can just be handwaved by people without much difficulty. We've already had people travel to the other side and back.

It does sound like a few people want to at least try it out so I'll be adopting Kenod's suggestion, I'll speak with the other mods and we'll see about creating a couple of test threads.

Again, we don't need complete separation for different plots in the Alleyverse.

One or two different settings? What are you basing those numbers off of?

17 hours ago, kenod said:

Alright. That's kind of the issue to me though, to me the main benefit of the universe system would be the ability to develop larger, different settings. For smaller setting the Other Side of the World would be good, but it still places a lot of restrictions of what can be done. For example, sci-fi or high tech-levels wouldn't work, since those require infrastructure, and a lot of people working and thinking together, which either wouldn't be possible because of travel limits, or would break these limits and cause trouble. While the OSotW would be great for smaller settings, especially exploration themed ones, or ones set in older time periods, it will not work for larger settings, or anything set past the industrial revolution.

You know, I'll give you that. This is good point, and it works. The OSotW is more suited to plots with smaller areas anyways.

I am still curious @Voidus what you found wrong with my North sea plot. I really don't see anything that could be an issue...

16 hours ago, kenod said:

@Sorana
I'll see if I can send you the initial write up/concept tomorrow (it's a big one, and I don't have enough time this evening to type it all out).

 

On a more on topic note, I think that the best strategy for the multiple universes thing would be to create a few test worlds, and see how people like them. Since they'd be standalone settings, they can be abandoned if they don't work out, and won't influence the main universe canon (this means don't transfer over existing characters). I'd suggest people with concepts ready work them out (perhaps post a very basic out-line on what you're doing, so people with similar ideas can work together), post the worked out versions, and pick two or three to actually create.
Also, I suggest that at least initially, the mods will create the new threads, to prevent everybody from creating their own universe, and causes a confusing mess of dead threads and massive amounts of overwork for the mods trying to keep track of everything.

 

I think if we do create multiple universes, we need to limit their creation. The worst-case scenario is everyone creating a new universe for a plot and then no one ever using that universe ever again. What if each universe is a separate RP? Characters would be able to travel between them, but they would exist in a different subforum (or subsubforum). The main problem I have with the multiple universes idea is trying to use it to siphon off characters from the Alleyverse. I don't think that will work, especially not if you implement temporal barriers.

Edited February 20, 2019 by xinoehp512

[kenod]

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I think if we do create multiple universes, we need to limit their creation. The worst-case scenario is everyone creating a new universe for a plot and then no one ever using that universe ever again. What if each universe is a separate RP? Characters would be able to travel between them, but they would exist in a different subforum (or subsubforum). The main problem I have with the multiple universes idea is trying to use it to siphon off characters from the Alleyverse. I don't think that will work, especially not if you implement temporal barriers.

I'd say that the best method would be to have a thread for pitching ideas (preferably complete ones), and see how much interest there is for them, after which the mods would have to decide if it should be created.

On that note, I'd suggest multiple types of universes as well, mostly relating to how many threads they can have, and how many we can have going on at the same time.
I'd suggest having two or three main universes, which are kind of like the current alleyverse, except with somewhat less threads. At the same time, we'd also have a number of side universes, which are smaller, and generally consist of only one or two threads. The final type of universe would be a one-shot, which is kind of like how the OSotW thread worked, where a single person controls the npcs and has already created the plot, and others simply participate in it.

As for people moving around, I'd suggest keeping it to a minimum, preferably not at all, with each character staying in their own universe.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

15 hours ago, Ark1002 said:

Not really. It fits better than Halo did. I'm still against it though.

No it doesn't. Destiny adds pretty much everything Halo would, and it comes with it's own magicish.

9 hours ago, Nohadon said:

I don’t know how to react to being referred to as Devaan, but I run a system called Chrysts in the alleyverse (there’s a bank thread  that’s inactive, but private transactions are still being used, there is a rudimentary economy) I suggest that you take care of The public transactions while I take care of the more sensitive and confidential ones. I would love your help.

*facepalm* I also just think of you as Devaan, so there is that. Well, character incomes, come my way!

Completely Unrelated: Would the introduction of a "super steroid" into the Alleyverse be acceptable? It would double base strength in one dose, and it is safe as a highly addictive drug can be up to five doses. After fie, you od, and literally explode. It is very addicitave, and after three doses, it replaces your adrenaline and muscle growth stuff. So, after three doses, if you stop, you can't produce adrenaline, and your muscles are to weak to make your heart beat, or lungs move. It also gives you a rush of happiness, like normal drugs, but that is a secondary thing. It is highly addictive, and the only cure, which would not be known at first, is to pump enough adrenaline straight into the heart to kill a normal person. It just counteracts the drug and doesn't kill them, in most cases, I'm assuming it would be a combo of Ambrosia/Dusk who discovered this, and the drug would be produced by the Jackal. A main source of income for him, and a new character option for everyone. I think one dose addiction would be 5w, and each additional dose would add 10m.

[+Ark1002]

56 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

No it doesn't. Destiny adds pretty much everything Halo would, and it comes with it's own magicish.

*facepalm* I also just think of you as Devaan, so there is that. Well, character incomes, come my way!

Completely Unrelated: Would the introduction of a "super steroid" into the Alleyverse be acceptable? It would double base strength in one dose, and it is safe as a highly addictive drug can be up to five doses. After fie, you od, and literally explode. It is very addicitave, and after three doses, it replaces your adrenaline and muscle growth stuff. So, after three doses, if you stop, you can't produce adrenaline, and your muscles are to weak to make your heart beat, or lungs move. It also gives you a rush of happiness, like normal drugs, but that is a secondary thing. It is highly addictive, and the only cure, which would not be known at first, is to pump enough adrenaline straight into the heart to kill a normal person. It just counteracts the drug and doesn't kill them, in most cases, I'm assuming it would be a combo of Ambrosia/Dusk who discovered this, and the drug would be produced by the Jackal. A main source of income for him, and a new character option for everyone. I think one dose addiction would be 5w, and each additional dose would add 10m.

There's a magic system for that.

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

There's always a magic system for that. 

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

Pewter savant doesn't count. This is a drug that would be available to everyone.

Ps. The minus points are the bonuses it gives, plus all of it's weaknesses.

[Voidus]

16 hours ago, Sorana said:

So that means if I end up in a thread which pace is so fast, that I can't participate, I've "lost" my character? Oh wow. That's hard.

It means there would be a time gap before they could return to other threads potentially, if the other threads were in a different setting. If this is due to pacing issues or something then some potential retconning can occur, this is more designed to prevent characters who just want to be involved in every plot from jumping around by adding consequences to choices. (Which is after all what gives choices meaning)
 

9 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I think people can be trusted to keep from interfering when people don't want them to. We don't need to make it impossible to ever enter or leave during the plot.

This isn't about interference as much as it is complexity and overcrowding.
 

9 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Again, we don't need complete separation for different plots in the Alleyverse.

One or two different settings? What are you basing those numbers off of?

That's exactly the point we disagree on, simply stating it again isn't going to be super convincing. I've laid out the reasons why I think it would be beneficial, if you disagree with any specific points please mention them.

The fact that it's not separated nicely into individual sub-regions. The same reason I don't think we can have all of these settings on the Alleycity side of the world.
 

9 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I think if we do create multiple universes, we need to limit their creation. The worst-case scenario is everyone creating a new universe for a plot and then no one ever using that universe ever again. What if each universe is a separate RP? Characters would be able to travel between them, but they would exist in a different subforum (or subsubforum). The main problem I have with the multiple universes idea is trying to use it to siphon off characters from the Alleyverse. I don't think that will work, especially not if you implement temporal barriers.

We won't be creating more subforums, there's too much admin work required for that and a bunch more complexity around roles and responsibilities. (I'd have to moderate all of them, then make suggestions of local mods for all of them, then handle any absences or departures by asking for replacement mods) If any of the other settings got large enough to justify it then it might be possible.

 

7 hours ago, kenod said:

I'd say that the best method would be to have a thread for pitching ideas (preferably complete ones), and see how much interest there is for them, after which the mods would have to decide if it should be created.

On that note, I'd suggest multiple types of universes as well, mostly relating to how many threads they can have, and how many we can have going on at the same time.
I'd suggest having two or three main universes, which are kind of like the current alleyverse, except with somewhat less threads. At the same time, we'd also have a number of side universes, which are smaller, and generally consist of only one or two threads. The final type of universe would be a one-shot, which is kind of like how the OSotW thread worked, where a single person controls the npcs and has already created the plot, and others simply participate in it.

As for people moving around, I'd suggest keeping it to a minimum, preferably not at all, with each character staying in their own universe.

Agreed, minimal transfer is preferred but I'd like to leave it a little open for character growth and as mentioned not everyone is going to feel like they fit in every setting so they may need to change after exploring the setting and their character a bit more.
 

4 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

No it doesn't. Destiny adds pretty much everything Halo would, and it comes with it's own magicish.

*facepalm* I also just think of you as Devaan, so there is that. Well, character incomes, come my way!

Completely Unrelated: Would the introduction of a "super steroid" into the Alleyverse be acceptable? It would double base strength in one dose, and it is safe as a highly addictive drug can be up to five doses. After fie, you od, and literally explode. It is very addicitave, and after three doses, it replaces your adrenaline and muscle growth stuff. So, after three doses, if you stop, you can't produce adrenaline, and your muscles are to weak to make your heart beat, or lungs move. It also gives you a rush of happiness, like normal drugs, but that is a secondary thing. It is highly addictive, and the only cure, which would not be known at first, is to pump enough adrenaline straight into the heart to kill a normal person. It just counteracts the drug and doesn't kill them, in most cases, I'm assuming it would be a combo of Ambrosia/Dusk who discovered this, and the drug would be produced by the Jackal. A main source of income for him, and a new character option for everyone. I think one dose addiction would be 5w, and each additional dose would add 10m.

I'd rather avoid stories based around drug usage, this seems way too likely to make the RP inappropriate for hosting on 17S. Some vague allusions or off screen stuff might be ok but not making an actual mechanic for it in the RP.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

Is that as a mod, or as a member?

[Voidus]

31 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Is that as a mod, or as a member?

Mod ruling, this is an issue with site rules not personal preference.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

Okay. Just wondering whether or not it was up for debate. If I had a character who uses a steroid, that isn't an addictive drug, would that be fine?

[Voidus]

6 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Okay. Just wondering whether or not it was up for debate. If I had a character who uses a steroid, that isn't an addictive drug, would that be fine?

The rule itself isn't up for debate, but there is a grey region around it. I'd say that if you're not talking about addictive drugs then that's probably fine, the preference would probably just be to downplay it when possible and not make it a big focus. (eg. don't describe rooms full of old needles on the floor, or go into detail about the process of injection, etc.)

[+Ark1002]

No, there's a system involving that.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

2 hours ago, Voidus said:

It means there would be a time gap before they could return to other threads potentially, if the other threads were in a different setting. If this is due to pacing issues or something then some potential retconning can occur, this is more designed to prevent characters who just want to be involved in every plot from jumping around by adding consequences to choices. (Which is after all what gives choices meaning)
 

This isn't about interference as much as it is complexity and overcrowding.
 

That's exactly the point we disagree on, simply stating it again isn't going to be super convincing. I've laid out the reasons why I think it would be beneficial, if you disagree with any specific points please mention them.

The fact that it's not separated nicely into individual sub-regions. The same reason I don't think we can have all of these settings on the Alleycity side of the world.
 

We won't be creating more subforums, there's too much admin work required for that and a bunch more complexity around roles and responsibilities. (I'd have to moderate all of them, then make suggestions of local mods for all of them, then handle any absences or departures by asking for replacement mods) If any of the other settings got large enough to justify it then it might be possible.

 

Agreed, minimal transfer is preferred but I'd like to leave it a little open for character growth and as mentioned not everyone is going to feel like they fit in every setting so they may need to change after exploring the setting and their character a bit more.
 

I'd rather avoid stories based around drug usage, this seems way too likely to make the RP inappropriate for hosting on 17S. Some vague allusions or off screen stuff might be ok but not making an actual mechanic for it in the RP.

1. I don't think it's so much of a problem that we need to enforce it, do we? Just advise specific cases.

2. I thought you were saying that both of those were caused by interference. Did you think I meant something different from 'characters stepping in and out'?

3. If we want complete separation, we make separate RPs. Why would we label something Alleyverse if it's never going to affect anything in the actual Alleyverse?

4. Why would that be a limiting factor?

5. I knew this was a long shot. Oh well. I have a feeling suggesting putting them in general RP wouldn't go over too well either?

 

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is people creating a new universe for every plot, leaving it once done, and then never using it again. People aren't going to spend time on worldbuilding if it's just going to be thrown out the window.

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

I actually agree with Xinoe. On everything.

I get that having characters randomly flick around can be confusing, and irritating, but fro characters like Dusk, Ambrosia, and the other rich people, they have money, and resources, and they can move quickly. The only real limit we should have, in my opinion, is plausibility. Like, a beggar wouldn't suddenly appear on the other side of the world. Rping a bit of travel would be nice, but I don't know if this is a real, giant problem. People who want to participate in multiple things, that aren't both really demanding, have a character flip between them. I mean, I would find it annoying if I can't hold on to the hunters in Hunt for The Jackal, or the Jackalites, but if someone needing their character elsewhere, I would understand. I have also put characters in places just so I would have something to do. Like, I had Walker show up at Arks and Itiahs duel because I wanted him somewhere, and my own duel with Ark couldn't be done yet. Just to recap, I don't know if this is really such a problem that we need to create a rule that comes with punishments. 

On a idea that I think will please both parties; A single character can only participate in a set number of plots per week. May this be 3, or 5, or 10, I don't know, but there will be a limit. If they reach this limit, they have to stay at this plot, and if they leave it, a mod talks to them.

Note: I do not mean thread hopping. Like the traders union, that plot moved threads. I mean going between different plots, not threads.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

3. If we want complete separation, we make separate RPs. Why would we label something Alleyverse if it's never going to affect anything in the actual Alleyverse?

Because it is a part of the same set of settings. They are a bunch of universes that are influenced by the DA and the alleys and whatever other guilds want to get involved. The only difference is the types of stories that people want to tell. 

In addition, why does Brandon call some of his short cosmere stories cosmere? Most of them are never going to affect the larger cosmere. 

Like shadows for silence, it’s stated that the characters are probably not coming back, and certainly aren’t going to affect the big cosmere crossover that is going to happen. 

Its all part of one galaxy. Just like all of these would be part of the alleyverse’s. 

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

4. Why would that be a limiting factor?

Because for certain stories to be plausible you need a certain amount of space. For example, there is no way one could reaslistically set up a science fiction Based society on the other side of the world.

In addition, it would be unrealistic to assume that there is absolutely no society or group on the other side of the world that hasn’t been discovered by someone. 

2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is people creating a new universe for every plot, leaving it once done, and then never using it again. People aren't going to spend time on worldbuilding if it's just going to be thrown out the window.

Agreed.

That would be terrible, that’s why people wouldn’t be allowed to create universes Willy nilly. At the very least they would need to show that there is enough support for a couple of different plots or at least enough people willing to participate to warrant creating a new universe. 

EDIT: @Darth Woodrack I completely agree that the only limit should be plausibility, unfortunately the only characters who could plausibly move around to flip between threads quickly are Mac, Ambrosia, and Walker.

Realistically, even if you have a ton of money you won’t be able to get across the city in less than 15 minutes. Unless otherwise stated, most interactions wouldn’t realistically take longer than 5 or 10.

There isn’t really a plausible way for people to switch between threads unless they can teleport instantly, or planned to arrive a head of time. The interactions are too short for that kind of thing. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by MacThorstenson