Argent Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't know though. The Parshendi at the end of WoR are a fraction of their population before TWoK, but they must've grown pretty numerous in the past 4 millenia. I guess what I am saying is that the Voidbringers were always fully staffed before each Desolation, but they couldn't be too numerous, as each Desolation brings them ti the brink of extinction. Today, the Parshendi are just a fraction of what they were before the war, but their numbers before the war must have been much higher than before any other Desolation. So we have 99 Desolations, each with 100% of the listeners population going bad (presumably), vs. this Desolation with only about 10% of their population alive and going bad, but this population must be much higher than in the he other cases too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witless Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) What I don't understand is why the heralds/knights radient didn't destroy the parshendi at the end of one of the early desolations. Obviously they have seen the parsh turn voidy and I would assume they would understand that it could happen again. I appreciate some orders may have had issues with this approach but I would assume other orders are more pragmatic. Edit: grammer Edited March 23, 2014 by Witless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yea, I wondered about this too. My current theory is that they another couldn't (failed to find all of them), or there are Parshendi in other places - Braize, maybe - and Odium sends them to Roshar before Desolations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witless Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Perhaps the more honourable orders, windrunners I'm looking at you, took exception to the idea. The question then becomes how do they infiltrate society? Without the chaos created by the parshmen turning deadly stormform just doesn't seem that dangerous. Adolin made a mess with no radient powers, a dead shardblade and dead plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trendkill Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I wonder if leaving some if them alive is part of the Oathpact. That would explain why they're never fully wiped out. What part they play in it, and why the Heralds would agree with it, is still very unclear, but it would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 i guess the old gods of the Parshendi are partly the KR. maybe the Spren of the KR can call in more Spren, which then can interact with the Parshendi. the Legion mentioned in the Parshendi Songs was kind of an elite force for the KR. keep in mind, the Parshendi could capture lots and lots of thouse Stormform Spren within days. so they would have used thouse before, in large numbers. so the real enemy in the Desolations, is still out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelfthrootoftwo Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 What resource do the Parshendi use to summon the storm? Szeth thinks in TWoK that Voidbringers could hold Stormlight, and if that's true, then we should expect Voidbinding to use it. But the Parshendi army doesn't have any: "Parshendi beards often bore bits of gemstone woven into them in patterns, but today those didn't glow." WoR ch81 "The Last Day", p969 That means the lightning and storm come from something else. *If* Szeth is correct, then stormform aren't Voidbringers. I doubt the source of that power is as simple as singing the right song in the right form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I strongly suspect Music is the Focus on Roshar.. That is why Hoid gave a flute to Kaladin, why humming makes it easier to Soulcast and why the parshendi can summon a storm with a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropicscholar Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Two notes, both might be important. 1. we know that voidspren do not require a host the same way honorspren do. I am not sure whether it was Rlain or Syl who stated this directly, but it seems to me that this could be a very important, and very dangerous detail, worth considering. 2. So how would Thunderclasts and Midnight essence fall into this? It has never been explicitly stated that Thunderclasts are a type of voidbringer but most, I think, assume that they are. They clearly are not a Listener form though. Similarly the midnight essence are not Voidbringers (according to the KR in Dalinar's Starfalls vision from tWoK). Could both of these monsters be created by one of the Voidforms you mention above? I would pose that one of the powers granted by voidbinding is Animation. Assuming that the spren possessing this ability, and have even a limited ability to utalize that power without a bond to parshmen that could explain the existence of Thunderclasts quite nicely. (Syl used adhesion in 'pranks' against Kaladin even before she was sentient) Given this, it is a safe assumption that Thunderclasts AND Midnight essences are mearly corrupted spren in solid form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Is it really a Voidbringers chart? I think it's of the Old Magic for two reasons: first Pattern said Voidbringers have no pattern and these glyphs are symmetric; second the woman on the chart could be Cultivation/Nightwatcher and Odium is a guy, so no reason to have a female with a safehand on a Odium related chart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 It's how I choose to interpret it in the lack of further evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymon Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Well, there's the possibility that it refers to how spren need to be captured in some way in order to access the different forms. For the first stormform, Eshonai needed to break the gem with the trapped stormform voidspren in order to make the change. I don't think that this is the case. When Eshoni first sees the spen in the gem she thinks about how they learned to capture spen in this way from the humans. She also thinks about how when you entered a storm(before learning how to capture spren) for the change you had to have the right mind set to attract the right spren. Even if you did everyhing right, you might end up with a different form then the one you wanted or not change at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ars13690 Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 this is a minor point but i did notice that the surges and the void-surges have the same lines in a different pattern as their counterparts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 There is a hide button below the posts to make duplicates not show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 this is a minor point but i did notice that the surges and the void-surges have the same lines in a different pattern as their counterparts ... These Voids would have to be something similar to the Surges, but can't be the same - but like much else, they can be their opposites. In fact, the way the Voids' glyphs are written supports this even further. Those glyphs are not just some asymmetric shapes, they are the Surges' glyphs, broken in half, and then put back together with one of the halves inverted, made its opposite. Considering how much emphasis is put on symmetry in Roshar, this looks like a pretty powerful symbol of not asymmetry, but of anti-symmetry instead. We've taken the Surges, something divine (as represented by their symmetry) and natural, and have turned them into an anathema. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) I cautiously invoke the Words of Brandon. In answer to a question about KR and Voidbringers having opposites, he said, basically, that they don't have a one-to-one equivalent. Edited January 16, 2016 by Stormgate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battar Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 I deliberately left her out. If I continue the parallels, she would have to counter the Heralds, which would make her the Unmade (collectively), as I understand things right now... I just don't know enough to make a guess that's both reasonable and educated. I have plenty that are only reasonable or educated, but not both though I don't see why this woman can't be Cultivation. We know she is apparently better at foreseeing the future than Honor, which puts her more in line with Voidbinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I necroed this topic because I noticed something about the voidbringing chart that is probably minor but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else and wonder if it is of any note. The woman depicted in the chart has her safe hand covered. Not sure if that implies anything but was wondering if anyone else noticed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I necroed this topic because I noticed something about the voidbringing chart that is probably minor but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else and wonder if it is of any note. The woman depicted in the chart has her safe hand covered. Not sure if that implies anything but was wondering if anyone else noticed that. It implies whoever made the chart was Vorin - if it was a Voidbinding chart, it's already going against Vorinism, so you wouldn't expect there to be safehands involved in art created for the art. This leads one to the idea that it probably isn't a Voidbinding chart, but rather a chart of the fabrial system. The big red gem in the center also cements this idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 It implies whoever made the chart was Vorin - if it was a Voidbinding chart, it's already going against Vorinism, so you wouldn't expect there to be safehands involved in art created for the art. This leads one to the idea that it probably isn't a Voidbinding chart, but rather a chart of the fabrial system. The big red gem in the center also cements this idea. So then this is the first time that the safe hand has been pointed out? and secondly, i find it incredibly ironic and funny that you commented on this post just when your rep names you as a voidbringer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 So then this is the first time that the safe hand has been pointed out? and secondly, i find it incredibly ironic and funny that you commented on this post just when your rep names you as a voidbringer lol I'm not sure if it's the first time it's been posted. It came up in a discussion on IRC a few weeks ago, though I know it wasn't the first time it's been brought up there. The logs have very little useful speculation to add, but maybe they'll have something that sparks a theory: (5:53:00 AM) yurisses: http://coppermind.net/w/images/TWoK_Rear_Endsheet.jpg (5:53:03 AM) yurisses: ...... (5:53:08 AM) yurisses: this is the first time i see this. (5:59:17 AM) Maths: dammit, I'm probably going to buy it as an ebook. THERE IS NO DISTRIBUTION CHAIN (5:59:21 AM) Maths: :'( (5:59:30 AM) Moogle: i've gone crazy trying to figure that out, yurisses (5:59:37 AM) Moogle: note the purple is the same as the map of shadesmar (5:59:41 AM) Moogle: cultivation(?) on the borders (5:59:44 AM) Moogle: giant gemstone in the middle. (6:00:33 AM) Moogle: the flames in the corner also mimic the flames of living beings in shadesmar (6:00:50 AM) Moogle: the symbols themselves are rotationally symetric versions of the glyphs on the surgebinding chart (6:00:54 AM) Moogle: all in all... i have no idea what it means (6:00:54 AM) Moogle: (6:01:10 AM) Moogle: i'm guessing it's not voidbinding since the woman has a safehand (implying it's of vorin creation). (6:01:29 AM) Moogle: but i've called it a voidbinding chart before. (6:01:43 AM) Moogle: speaking of i'm changing my mind, gems aren't the focus of Roshar, it's the Surges. (6:02:10 AM) Moogle: i expect to change my mind again within a month (6:02:15 AM) Moogle: but i don't expect to ever go back to the bonds theory (6:02:32 AM) yurisses: bondsmith and truthwatcher have no connection to surges in this diagram (6:02:49 AM) Moogle: they do (6:02:52 AM) Moogle: it's the blue lightning (6:02:55 AM) Moogle: i think it's just a stylistic choice (6:03:07 AM) yurisses: ah (6:03:57 AM) Moogle: the way the corners bleed from color to purple (6:04:02 AM) Moogle: i don't know what it means (6:04:18 AM) Moogle: it's like... a reflection of the other side (6:04:26 AM) Moogle: and there's a chasm in the middle, the gem separating clouds (6:04:33 AM) Moogle: it's just (6:04:36 AM) Moogle: such an intriguing chart (6:04:43 AM) Moogle: and i haven't got the slightest clue on it. (6:05:22 AM) Moogle: the separation of color from purple mimicks the male vs female herald divide on the surgebinding chart (6:05:57 AM) Moogle: the gem is red... why red? odium? (6:07:16 AM) yurisses: the order symbols on the surgebinding chart represent honorblade handles, right? (6:08:07 AM) Moogle: not known (6:08:12 AM) Moogle: the honorblades have their hilts drawn with that symbol (6:08:22 AM) Moogle: but obviously they'd be impossible to hold practically (6:08:28 AM) Moogle: and kaladin has a windrunner symbol form in frost behind him (6:08:44 AM) Moogle: i believe there's a WoB on this... (6:09:03 AM) Moogle: not sure on the specifics, but I believe it was slightly against the Honorblade hilts being exactly like the symbols and they were just stylized. (6:09:11 AM) yurisses: maybe the order symbols on thiis chart represent.... shardplate? (6:09:20 AM) Moogle: possible (6:09:23 AM) Moogle: glyphs glow on the plate. (6:11:14 AM) yurisses: maybe it's a chart for the use of surges in shadesmar? (6:12:55 AM) Moogle: i don't think that makes sense but it's not impossible (6:13:17 AM) Moogle: the 3 "main" magic systems of roshar are themed around the Surges (6:13:34 AM) Moogle: so given the Surge glyphs are rotated and changed, like Feruchemy has a different set of symbols for metals than Allomancy (6:13:38 AM) Moogle: makes me think it's one of the other two systems (6:13:54 AM) Moogle: given the safehand, I don't *think* it is Voidbinding, which would make it our "esoteric" fabrial system. (6:13:59 AM) Moogle: the gem supports the fabrial interpretation (6:15:06 AM) yurisses: oh, a chart for fabrials? eh... hehe.... (6:17:49 AM) yurisses: what are relevant wobs on this (6:18:05 AM) yurisses: a bit of a puzzle to look up on theoryland (6:21:40 AM) Moogle: http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#86 (6:22:00 AM) yurisses: oh... (6:22:30 AM) Moogle: http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#23 (6:24:45 AM) yurisses: considering this "voidbinding" chart is probably old (6:24:49 AM) Moogle: i had one re. the woman on the border (6:24:52 AM) Moogle: but i cant find it (6:25:03 AM) Moogle: theoryland's lack of having everything *really* makes me frustrated sometimes. (6:25:18 AM) yurisses: i think its possible it's actually a voidbinding chart and voidbinding is related not to voidbringersand odium but to cultivatiob (6:26:26 AM) Moogle: it's possible voidbinding isn't related (6:26:32 AM) Moogle: the Ars Arcanum mentions (6:26:53 AM) Moogle: I’m not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or its cousin the Old Magic fit into this paradigm, if indeed they can. My research suggests that, indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings. Perhaps the Old Magic fits into those, though I am beginning to suspect that it is something entirely different. (6:28:16 AM) yurisses: voidbinding cousin to the old magic? yeeee (6:28:29 AM) yurisses: and took talks about stealing a black sphere from the nightwwatcher (6:29:25 AM) yurisses: so either voidbinding is actually cool and fine (do we even have an indication that seeing into the future is something odium is any good at?) (6:29:35 AM) yurisses: or cultivation is really darker than we assume (6:37:15 AM) yurisses: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=944#8 (6:37:24 AM) yurisses: Technically, Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation. And hah, that's a great title. I hope I don't lose it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 03 October 2015 - 08:24 AM twok_endsheet-rear-2-webres.jpg 384.24KB 4 downloads not sure any of these things mean anything - just thought I'd share my thoughts around the border : - multiple colors used for top half of border / monochrome bottom half - not sure if she has brown or blonde hair - I do believe blonde and the dark is same as background - and one hand / arm is covered on the inside : - it seems divided into 3 columns -or- a parting / opening in the middle (I lean towards the latter) - the bigger symbols are in circles minus the 2 in the middle - which are in octagons - all the bigger symbols seem to glow again minus the 2 in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timasp Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I'm pretty sure that we have WOB that there are not 10 "void-orders", and that the correlation is not 1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'd go with this being the Fabrial system, or a system linked to Cultivation for; I mean this is a basic idea but the way the symbols are, cutting something up or taking a part of something and rearranging the pieces in a different way seems a lot like her M.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cole Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Decay form might be like the counterpart of Skybreakers surge of Division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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