Mid-Range Game 28: Knives in the Dark

[Eternum he/him]

@Fifth Scholar, I honestly think your arguments about Drought are far, far too tenuous. It almost comes off as trying to protect Mad. I don't think you have much of a basis for lynching Drought.

Regarding joke votes, Stink never retracted his either. So? Speaking of, @STINK, care to chime in? You've been lurking for a while.

Edit: Also, @Herowannabe, @_Stick_, anything you two want to say?

@Steeldancer @Drake Marshall You two also just showed up in the big list of lurkers

Edited March 25, 2018 by Eternum

[Madagascar]

2 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

 

@Madagascar, could you please find the other example you allude to here? I’m not sure that I think Eternum’s actions here are overwhelmingly eliminator-ish. Being overly trusting (as appears in your quote, ignoring Eternum’s response below) is suspicious, but leaving a vote on a player you say you think isn’t an eliminator isn’t a careful move, and I’d expect Eternum to have been more careful as an eliminator.

 

This.

On 3/23/2018 at 10:05 PM, Jondesu said:

I’ll announce that I’m here.

Oh, and despite sometimes not liking this kind of thing, I’ll place a poke vote on @Herowannabe. Not only do I want to see you post (not that I’m too worried about your activity), but I want to know: do you have a role with a specific win condition, and if so, would it conflict with the village win condition as far as you know?

Hey guys, I'm back! I've been busy with a game ... a game called ... Life. One that is, shockingly, even more serious than the one going on here. And what do I see? Fingers pointing at sweet little Mapadonet? I don't know who this Madagascar person is you keep referring to, but from all the accusations and the weird ominous feeling, I think that's ... me? Gosh, I better get talking!

So the pigs shall apologize if they do not satisfy everyone's concerns enough, because, well, I'm pretty lazy. I mostly just thought Eternum was using poor logic, and hadn't actually voted based on that. Anyway, I agreed at the time that that weren't overwhelmingly evil and anti-piglike, if confusing. I didn't vote for him then, did I?

Orlok, it seems we simply don't agree on what constitutes careful or what eliminators would do. I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack pigs on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Pig-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.  All of those moments will be lost in time, or when I forget them, which will probably be tomorrow. Where I come from, evil people can be cautious. They can also be insane as hell. How things are here, I may not know, but I was trying to add my own thoughts rather than rehashing other people's. My thoughts may not chime with everyone else's all the time, but they're mine, and I'm fond of them. If you must know, I wondered if Eternum was an eliminator who panicked and forgot to retract while defending himself, but who knows, right?

I addressed Aman's timing because it seemed to me like he was twisting Eternum's word to vote for him. I voted for Eternum because he seemed to be backpedaling and to add more pressure. After all, with two votes, someone can just tie, but with three they really have to start oinking. And he's responded so ...

Eternum, I still think your logic was weird and that it's silly to think someone's not evil just because they say so, but hey, being silly doesn't always mean evil. That's one of the first rules the pigs taught me.

Mapadonet is busy for the time being. Professor Snout shall take over questions from the audience (but possibly not really, because, again, life).

Edited March 25, 2018 by Madagascar
Grammar!

[livinglegend]

1 hour ago, Eternum said:

Neutral, possibly. The way they worded it could also mean they're village, but why not say it straight-out in that case? @livinglegend I'd appreciate it if you could go into more detail regarding your win con. More importantly, are you, in fact, Neutral?

Either way, if telling the truth, could be a valuable asset to both sides. I'd like to ask you to help the village, out here in the open. I can't exactly ensure your survival-- I honestly can't ensure mine-- but you have a better chance of winning with the village than with the elims, probably. If you're even telling the truth.

I didn't expect this comment to spark this much interest. Please allow me to answer your question with a question. Would you have believed me if I had said I was village? It probably would have been viewed as NAI (which I guess I thought this comment was anyway). What if I had claimed neutral? That may have received a bit more scrutiny as Orlock puts it:

2 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

LivingLegend is likely to draw scans and greater scrutiny for having claimed a non-eliminator win condition (and in doing so implying a non-village win condition). I don’t think an eliminator is likely to do that, but could see a villager doing so to try to persuade eliminators to claim to him. 

All this being the case, I will affirm my non-eliminator win condition. As a little additional information, I can win with the village. Read into that all that you want

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the current lynch, I don't like killing Eternum. What has been stated over and over and over, but it feels like we are all missing is that the day one lynch is meant to give us information. Until very recently, Eternum's posts have not directly tied him with or against any other player or even any role or distribution ideas. I feel lynching him (even if he somehow was an eliminator) would give us very little information about the game. Much more interesting to me was Stink's post tying players together.

On 3/24/2018 at 8:31 AM, STINK said:

So when I look back at the thread to kinda apply that to any posts relating to such a matter, it seems that:

• Fifth and Kynedath use the term 'elims' implying that they are all for their being multiple starting elims.
• Stick is for there being conversions, and seems to also do what I did in leaping from there being at least one elim to there being one elim who will have extra help in some way.

I feel that a lynch on Fifth Scholar, Kynedath, or Stick would be much more useful as far as gathering data as they used these terms. With Fifth Scholar being unlikely to get back on this Cycle, I will vote for Kynedath. I feel like he has written posts that will give us more information when we find his role and alignment.

Edit: Triple ninja. Also it appears my information was reversed and it is Kynedath, not Fifth Scholar who is unlikely to be able to defend themself.

Edited March 25, 2018 by livinglegend

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

6 minutes ago, Eternum said:

 

@Steeldancer @Drake Marshall You two also just showed up in the big list of lurkers

Hi, yes. I have limited time and I'm kind of a slow reader.

I don't really know what's going on, so I can't really say that much yet. Except that if Madagascar dies prematurely I will be cross. Their RP is way too much fun for that.

Time to read some more stuff, unless somebody happens to want to give me a quick rundown?

[STINK he/him]

10 minutes ago, Eternum said:

Regarding joke votes, Stink never retracted his either. So? Speaking of, @STINK, care to chime in? You've been lurking for a while.

Tab was left open

Also I've semi-decided that now I'm gonna keep my vote on Drought so y'all have a motivation to vote for someone else or else innocent little drought dies

 

[Madagascar]

2 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I don't really know what's going on, so I can't really say that much yet. Except that if Madagascar dies prematurely I will be cross. Their RP is way too much fun for that.

 

 

(I'd also be pretty cross, to be honest.)

(Yeah, who would feed us? No one else cares about us pigs.)

(Wait ... wait, guys. I have an idea. We could eat her corpse.)

(Hooray for science!)

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Wait the cycle should be over right  nevermind

Edited March 25, 2018 by Drake Marshall

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

4 hours ago, Elenion said:

Due to a GM schedule conflict, this cycle will be extended by two hours past the time on the clock. Next cycle things will be back to normal.

 

[Eternum he/him]

Nah, about 30 more minutes. Len extended it.

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

10 people viewing the thread o_O

Eternum, I’d like you to attempt to build a lynch case against somebody with two one-line posts. It’ll be tenuous at best. But it’s a stronger case than I’ve seen against Madagascar, who’s posted a lot more, and being voted on for...suspecting Eternum? That’s not a great reason, even if you don’t agree with some of the points she’s made. 

I can’t respond to all the points everyone’s making, but to address LL: Why are you voting for me? Because I used the term “Elims,” and you believe I somehow know if the Elims have conversions or not? That’s very tenuous, even moreso than my Drought lynch.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

At present, the lynch stands as follows:

Drought: Stink, Fifth (2)

Fifth: Drought, Livinglegend (2)

Madagascar: Orlok, Eternum (2)

Eternum: Aman (1)

Regarding the flood of recent responses, I think it interesting that both @Drake Marshall and @Fifth Scholar are defending Madagascar, Fifth particularly ardently, and Drake without getting involved in the conversation. @Drake Marshall, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the game once you’ve had a bit more time.

 

[Herowannabe he/him]

 

@Orlok Tsubodai "Hey! It's nice to see you actually talkin' now insteada just stompin' about accusin' folks without any explanation. Course you still seem kinda cranky, and intent on directin' some of that crankiness my way. Perhaps if you'd just try some chouta...?"

Nabbers hold out a steaming wrap of chouta.

...

After a few seconds, when Brightlord Tekiel declines to take it, Nabbers shrugs and starts eating the chouta himself. 

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I’m interested as to why Hero chose to focus his time exclusively on Eternum. Although he produced new reasons, indicating that he is engaging with the thread, I’m surprised that’s he only has comments on Eternum. This makes me wonder whether he’d already decided that Eternum was an acceptable lynch, and looked for reasons to contribute to it. Further, with Kynedath and Aman’s support, supporting the lynch becomes a relatively safe place to be. I think that following this post I’m slightly suspicious of Hero.

"I aim'f beemf juff chalkimf 'bouf Eftermumf," Nabbers paused to swallow. "I've commented on other people, too. I don't have time to comment on everybody here, I still got to make chouta, yes I do, but I still have talked about some people. Most notably, you! I'da thought you would have remembered that."

Nabbers takes another bite. 

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Hero’s post here is unusual. He’s noted suspicion of Eternum, but is removing his vote for RP reasons (which is consistent with his retaining his vote on my for not buying Chouta). This might indicate that his desire to lynch accurately is secondary to RP. That can be read in a couple of ways. It’s a dangerous way to act, and one that might draw undue attention to him were he an eliminator, and so conventionally might be read as village indicative. Equally, Hero RPd as literally talking to Ruin in AG3, as a (spiked) eliminator, so I think the conventional analysis isn’t of much use here. Overall, I’d like more of an explanation from @Herowannabe for his vote and then retraction on Eternum.

"I aim'f goff muffimf cha hide. I faid whaf I faid fah fe reaffomf I faid I dif."

*swallows*

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Hero RPd as literally talking to Ruin in AG3, as a (spiked) eliminator, so I think the conventional analysis isn’t of much use here.

Ah... those were good times.

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 Here are your clear chips, @Herowannabe.

"Thanke kindly! Come again 'soon as yer hungry, alright?"

Nabbers turns back to address Lord Tekiel and the rest of the crowd. 

"Alright, I've been thinking' about it, and I've figured it out. I've got a plan, and if'n we follow it, we'll be sure to find the murderers." *Nabbers stuffs what is left of the chouta- over half of it- into his mouth before continuing.* "Mmf amf pffmp fh hmmfy. Amf frumf hff uff ifmmeffmpfumf whmff. Hrrfy wimf mffmf flmfa chu frmf shlumfflfy mafmfmiff pigff amf ffromf ffmf offh shoffa! FFMF, we wff frffmy wimf!" *Swallows* "Alright? got it? good."

---

As for this cycle, I gotta be honest, I don't like any of the options up for lynch. I have some mild suspicions, but given the choice I'd rather see more one-armed herdazian jokes and crazy pig-antics in the game, not less, so I'd rather not lynch @Eternum or @Madagascar. (EDIT: And I see @Droughtbringer is in the running, too. I haven't commented on it yet, but I always found it odd that a small lynch train built up on Drought off of a joke comment from STINK of all people- no offense. But I have yet to see any reason to actually suspect Drought more than anybody else) So instead...

19 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Also @Ecthelion III and @The_Lady_of_Chaos have not yet posted.

These two still haven't posted anything. @The_Lady_of_Chaos logged in yesterday though. So, if it's up to me, I'd rather lynch someone who is around but not playing than lynch someone who is around and is playing. Anyone with me in swinging to a last minute lynch on The_Lady_of_Chaos?

---

29 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Hi, yes. I have limited time and I'm kind of a slow reader.

ditto

Edited March 25, 2018 by Herowannabe

[livinglegend]

Fair point Fifth Scholar. My goal is to lynch someone who will provide the most information on the workings of this game upon their death. I wouldn't mind hitting an eliminator, but given that our odds of hitting an eliminator are a bit small I want to get all the info I can. (though an eliminator would shine a lot of light on this situation.)

I hope to be able to place a more substantial vote before the end of the cycle

[Orlok Tsubodai]

@Herowannabe, regarding your response, I’d first say that I was referring to your exclusive focus on Eternum at that time, which felt like a safe option given the current discussion has been exclusively anti-Eternum. You contributed to that focus, rather than widening it.

I might be misinterpreting your RP, but I don’t think you’ve provided a proper explanation for the retraction on Eternum, given your previous suspicion of them.

Why do you not want to lynch Madagascar? Why your change or heart on Eternum?

I’m also interested in your vote on Lady of Chaos, given the current tie, and the limited information it would provide. It seems to be to be another safe choice of focus.

[Madagascar]

I'm going to be perfectly honest. Part of me is thinking the sooner I die, the sooner I can be with my flying pigs who went to Pig Heaven (the existence of which I received the first of my three totally existent Nobel Prizes for), and can be blessedly free of all this ill-natured bickering. I'm getting old, and it ain't as fun as it used ter be. That's why I haven't voted for Drought, even though doing so would probably save me.

But, then again, I also dislike people who refuse to talk with the power of a thousand suns, because it ain't no way to play the game (by which I mean the totally serious battle for life and death we are in), so I vote we see what happens when we throw the spirit of Chaos herself into a black hole brimming with cosmic energy. This doesn't really save me, just throws the votes into chaos... which is fitting for this kind of day, really.

(Imagine the data we can collect from this experiment, Professor Snout!)

[Eternum he/him]

@Elenion if it's a tie lynch, what happens? Coin flip or nothing?

[Herowannabe he/him]

2 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@Herowannabe, regarding your response, I’d first say that I was referring to your exclusive focus on Eternum at that time, which felt like a safe option given the current discussion has been exclusively anti-Eternum. You contributed to that focus, rather than widening it.

I might be misinterpreting your RP, but I don’t think you’ve provided a proper explanation for the retraction on Eternum, given your previous suspicion of them.

Why do you not want to lynch Madagascar? Why your change or heart on Eternum?

I’m also interested in your vote on Lady of Chaos, given the current tie, and the limited information it would provide. It seems to be to be another safe choice of focus.

Don't have enough time to roleplay *sigh* but in short, my reasons for voting for Eternum and retracting that vote are exactly what I said they were. I'm not hiding anything there. 

As for Madagascar, her character is storming amusing and I'd like to keep her around for at least a few cycles longer. I don't trust her- not by a long shot- but I'm willing to extend her life for a bit if it means more pig humor. 

As for my vote on Lady of Chaos, see my signature for all the explanation you need there.

[Madagascar]

5 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Don't have enough time to roleplay *sigh*

 

You can always just do what I do and insert pigs into everything, regardless of whether or not it makes sense. I can't help it. They're wriggly little creatures, and the mud makes them slippery and hard to restrain.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

17 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Don't have enough time to roleplay *sigh* but in short, my reasons for voting for Eternum and retracting that vote are exactly what I said they were. I'm not hiding anything there. 

As for Madagascar, her character is storming amusing and I'd like to keep her around for at least a few cycles longer. I don't trust her- not by a long shot- but I'm willing to extend her life for a bit if it means more pig humor. 

As for my vote on Lady of Chaos, see my signature for all the explanation you need there.

So to confirm, you voted on Eternum for the speed of his village reads, and retracted based on his inclusion of Chouta in posts, despite admitting that he hadn’t swayed you? Why were his village reads enough to induce you to vote on him, but not to keep your vote on him despite not being convinced.

I remain suspicious of you, and in light of Madagascar’s comments in the PM, and not wanting to alienate her from our community, will move to voting on Herowannabe instead, despite believing that lynching Madagascar will give us information on Drake, Fifth and yourself. I think ultimately that the community and fun for all should come before optimal strategy, and certainly wouldn’t want to see Madagascar leave.

This makes the vote count as follows:

Drought: Stink, Fifth (2)

Lady of Chaos: Herowannabe, Madagascar (2)

Fifth: Drought (1)

Madagascar: Eternum (1)

Eternum: Amanuensis (1)

Herowannabe: Orlok (1)

 

 

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

On 3/23/2018 at 7:11 PM, Steeldancer said:

Thunder? I can handle thunder. Flash, remember? 

That might be tempting fate or Odium.

On 3/24/2018 at 5:51 AM, Steeldancer said:

Ok, so you've come to the conclusion that Drought is neither a cave fish or a flounder. Great analysis, stink. We should go fishing. 

Are we fishing, or are we phishing? I think the discussion is floundering, but I will cave to your requests and go fishing.

23 hours ago, Madagascar said:

Well, the pigs came back with their initial forensic results. Unfortunately, they ate those results before I could read them. They have received an official reprimand. They are bad pigs and do not deserve chouta! But I will give it to them anyway, because seriously, look at their adorable little eyes. If you haven't gotten your payment yet, Hero, just ring the university up again and refuse to leave until they take care of my tab. Sometimes they'll act indignant and act like they have no idea what you're talking about, but they're just big kidders, so be persistent.

I don't find the stinky fellow much suspicious right now, though as a pig researcher I have a bias towards stinky people. If he had anything powerful against the drought guy, I think he would be putting it forward, although it is true ... droughts are very bad for the environment. So I think Stink is chaotic, crazy, insane. A kindred spirit. But this has been well rehashed already.

For now, I shall direct the pigs to bite the Drake fella, because the pigs are hungry and get bitey when they don't get fed to promote activity and increase discussion helpful to the village. Data is necessary for forensic investigation and he has not provided any so far. Very uncivil of him.

*round chubby eyes gaze upon Orlok. Without context, it is impossible to tell whether they belong to Mapadonet or a pig*

Drought exposed himself? I ... I hope it was not in front of anyone ... impressionable. *shudders and covers the pigs' eyes with her apron*

Forensic data, you say? Well why didn't you ask before? Let's see here... 

*fishes out a bent, rusted copper needle*

Here! For science! This will make your pigs smart, and knowledgeable, and experienced and all that lot. Has loads of data on it; just jab one of the piggies with it.

No strings attached, although it would be awkward if the pig fell under the influence of Odium.

(and no, Ev is not a dark alley affiliate, just a blue bloke what buys and sells memories)

19 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Emphasis mine.

Upon reading the write up (particularly this quoted section) I think we're dealing with two eliminator factions. That last sentence could be an indicator that it's just two roles / characters working for the same cause but the emphasis seems to be more on separation. I'm getting a Szeth vibe from the first one and a Iyatil vibe from the second. Killing a nobleman and his entourage fits the Assassin in White's MO, and the title of this game combined with a masked killer really makes me think Ghostbloods. If Iyatil is a role I would guess that Mraize would be as well. If that's the case, they might be the group with a recruitment ability, as we've seen them try in canon. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Jasnah role they're after, considering where we are, but I'm probably making way too many assumptions 

Ah well. It's fun to speculate about, regardless. Also not super useful.

...

FOUR HOURS LATER

...

Sorry I'm late. Made an impromptu surprise visit to my grandma's because she's feeling sick and didn't to be rude.

Okay so there's 2 people I'm feeling pretty good about voting right now, as much as any sensible person can be this early in the game. I'm doing this mobile so it's difficult for me to isolate and analyze the players posts so I'll try to see if I can get time on a computer tomorrow morning and tackle it before I start driving back to Virginia.

One of those is Kynedath. The other is Steelrunner.

It's been a very long time since I've played with Kyn (or anyone here really) and although I'm very excited to see him back, I'm not getting the best of vibes from him. Whats triggering me specifically is how "clinical" his posts feel. Phrasing seems very careful and the words are clean, organized. Less like natural train of thought and more like "I need to sell this image" and he's trying a bit too hard.

Could totally be a persona thing, honestly. But without prior context and significant content now, I'm leaning in the "Kill Kyn" direction because I've seen many eliminators behave similarly and have even done it myself.

Anyone else agree? Or more importantly, reading him village? If so please tell me why and cite specifics if possible.

As for Steel, it's his later reaction to Orlok's vote that's making me go hmm. I think I can manage to quote it now since it's relatively short and requires no modifications:

Yay.

Tonally this feels abnormally stand-offish and I can definitely see it as a kind of bluff. Now that I'm reading it again and trying to follow the logic, however, it's more than likely coming from a clueless/reckless villager. Guess my initial read just didn't like the wording or something  oh well! Moving on.

 

I really like the Fifth / Coop interaction that just happened. Slight village lean on both of them because of it. I can try to articulate the specifics if people are interested, but essentially I find their responses to each other both logically consistent with being village-aligned.

Most everyone else is in a gray zone. I really can't wait to be on a computer so I can put more effort into this game. It feels good to be back 

@Jondesu quick question. Why did you target hero with your question on page 1? Like what was your thought process there. Maybe I missed it but either way I want to know more 

In the signup thread, there was reference to something that sounded a lot like silent gatherers, or something diagram related at least. I kind of get the feel that Len was telling us that was one of the players in this game. Honestly, I'm a little surprised to see this much analysis on the current writeup while overlooking that one. I kind of wonder if it was intentional, but *shrug.

5 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

At present, the lynch stands as follows:

Drought: Stink, Fifth (2)

Fifth: Drought, Livinglegend (2)

Madagascar: Orlok, Eternum (2)

Eternum: Aman (1)

Regarding the flood of recent responses, I think it interesting that both @Drake Marshall and @Fifth Scholar are defending Madagascar, Fifth particularly ardently, and Drake without getting involved in the conversation. @Drake Marshall, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the game once you’ve had a bit more time.

I think things are better when some people approach this like Madagascar does, pretty much.

If I had to say who is evil, I'd probably pick Kyne, for assuming that there were "elims", or Aman, for maybe drawing attention away from important things.

But that's not really my agenda. I've deliberated and I see no reason not to reveal I'm a neutral.

As it is, I'm kind of bothered that Madagascar is saying in PMs that they feel they don't belong on this forum.

So, Droughtbringer.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

On reflection, reading that post, Drake Marshall. I’m getting a really quite off read from it. I’m not sure I could articulate it well, but something that does stand out is his neutral claim. I think that a second neutral claim, with the previous establishment that Livinglegend is more likely to not be evil having claimed neutral, is far too convenient, and is a good excuse for an eliminator to explain away non village actions. I think further that lynching Drake gives us information on Madagascar, which is useful regardless.

I’d be interested in whether anyone else picked anything off up from this post, and will try to place why it’s giving me such a bad read in the meantime.

Edit: Drake, are you voting on Drought for any reason other than saving Madagascar? What are your thoughts on other players?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Orlok Tsubodai

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

 

@Orlok Tsubodai, you believe Drought is a villager because of his initial comment where he said it was a shame he was evil? @Droughtbringer,you are currently being lynched. Would you like to speak in your defense?

[Madagascar]

@Drake Marshall I just want to make clear that what I said in PMs was meant to be out of character. While it's true that I find this forum overwhelming, it's possible I should have just left my whining for the dead doc. I definitely wouldn't want to guilt anyone into not voting for me, if they want to, based on the PM. It's just a game, after all.

Oink.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Madagascar

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 

@Orlok Tsubodai, you believe Drought is a villager because of his initial comment where he said it was a shame he was evil? @Droughtbringer,you are currently being lynched. Would you like to speak in your defense?

I believe Drought’s tone in the thread, and his establishment and defence of his whole game PM are indicative of his being a villager. I think they brought him a lot of totally unnecessary attention, and read that as a villager move.

[Steeldancer he/him]

I will be voting for lady of chaos . An inactive seems like a good idea here, because we know very little, they aren't contributing, and perhaps through their death we can learn something.