[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[Fulminato he/him]

5 hours ago, Kelsier96 said:

In Part Five: New Unity, Ash says " Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium". How does she know about Adonalsium?. I know that she's a herald, but even Sazed from Mistborn doesn't know about it. In The Hero of Ages, Sazed says " I have delved and searched, and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know".

sazed before the end of HoA don't know nothing of shards and shardholders. he learn a bit from the power he wield, but nothing substantial.

the heralds are ancient people, they interact directly with honor, and made a (oath)pact to bind odium. to make this they need to have some deep cosmere knowledge. i don't find so troubling they know adonalsium and the shattering.

2 hours ago, Kelsier96 said:

When the holder of a Shard dies, the power of the shard will be taken by some other person as seen in Mistborn. (right?). So, when Honor died, did the power go to Stormfather as he is now able to to things he previously couldn't? Like Dalinar combining all the three realms into one. If so, is Stormfather(Dalinar included) as powerful as Honor himself?

in mistborn sazed take the full power of the two shard, but odium don't only kill honor, but had shattered the shard (and the power) he hold. the largest chunk merged with the SF, but the raw power of the stormfather is nearly nothing compared a full shard like odium.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Fulminato

[NamelessBridgeman]

When Dalinar temporarily created Honor's Perpendicularity in part V, it seemed that he gathered all of the Honor-power that had become the gloryspren. I can't believe that the gloryspren represent the total of all the investiture released when Honor was splintered. After all, Cultivation's Perpendularity is stable, and it apparently requires only a portion of Cultivation's power to exist.  

Would a full revival of Honor require the reintegration of more kinds of spren? Perhaps even some sapiant varieties? 

It now seems inevitable that Honor will be re-constituted as part of the final fight against Odium. Will this event require the brave sacrifice of many spren? Logically, honorspren like Syl would be at the top of this list.

Given Kaladin's propensity for self-sacrifice, I can easily see Kaladin and Syl becoming martyrs in order to recreate Honor and finally defeat Odium.

[Faceless Mist-Wraith he/him]

On December 3, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Fulminato said:

“You … didn’t become king of Jah Keved by accident, did you?” Dalinar asked. [...] “How?” Dalinar asked.
“There’s a woman at Kharbranth,” he said. “She goes by the name Dova, but we think she is Battah’Elin. A Herald. She told us the Desolation was approaching.” He looked to Dalinar. “I had nothing to do with the death of your brother. But once I heard of what incredible things the assassin did, I sought him out. Years later, I located him, and gave him specific instructions.…”

oathbringer Chapter 121. Ideals

“We’re in a dangerous position,” Dukar said. “His Majesty revealed too much to Dalinar. We will be watched now.”  … the … window …
“Dalinar doesn’t know of the Diagram,” Adrotagia countered. “Or that we brought the singers to Urithiru. He only knows that Kharbranth controlled the assassin—and thinks that the Herald’s insanity prompted us. We’re still well positioned.”

oathbringer Chapter 122. A Debt Repaid

i don't think this leave enough room for another interpretation.

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

On December 3, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Kered said:

It probably hasn't been talked about in this thread, but I hate Moash. I'm working on his Coppermind page and it painful to study his content and his full-circle betrayal of Kaladin. And when I say I hate him, I mean him as a character, not how he's written. Brandon does a really good job of making characters like Moash. 

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

• Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
• Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some crazy people who may or may not be gods? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Faceless Mist-Wraith
grammar

[Kered he/him]

4 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

• Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
• Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some crazy people who may or may not be gods? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

 

I agree with everything you said. But the nail in the coffin moment for me was after he killed Elhokar, turned, and gave Kaladin the Bridge Four salute. That gesture is rich with implications, none of them good ones. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Kered

[Fulminato he/him]

2 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

• Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
• Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some deities? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

i find this highly foreshadowing

You see, it has been my experience that no matter where you go, you will find some who abuse their power.” He shrugged. “Eye color is not so odd a method, compared to many others I have seen. If you were to overthrow the lighteyes and place yourselves in power, Moash, I doubt that the world would be a very different place. The abuses would still happen. Simply to other people.” Kaladin nodded slowly, but Moash shook his head. “No. I’d change the world, Sigzil. And I mean to.”

WotK Chapter 46: "child of tanavast"

[Stormrunner1730]

On 11/15/2017 at 4:07 PM, Ryshadium said:

On an overall note, I felt that this was Brandon's best book, on a purely writing level.  I find that his skills as a writer have improved greatly over time, and that pattern has not changed with Oathbringer.  He has always had tremendous skill with characters and worldbuilding, but this was the first of his books where I felt the writing itself was at the same level.  The prose felt tighter and flowed better than even WoR and WoK. It made reading the book an incredibly fulfilling experience. 

This is also my favorite book that he has written.  I feel like this was the book Sanderson has waited his whole career to write (well, Dalinar' story more specifically).

I'll give a more detailed reaction later, but the Battle of Thaylen Field might be my favorite fictional battle ever.  This is about to be very stream of consciousness.  Sanderson managed to weave just about every major character in the story into the plot of the battle in a believable way.  There were several moments when I had tears in my eyes (Namely, Dalinar's final rejection of Odium).  The battle never seemed one-sided, even after Dalinar spoke his Third Ideal (although it was clear the Radiants still had an upper hand since Odium had retreated).  Speaking of which, Odium's "physical" presence is brilliant and chilling.  I loved that Kaladin got to fight Amaram.  I literally started yelling (in joy) at my book during most of Szeth's POVs during the battle.  Jasnah showed us (the audience) how devastating Soucasting can be in battle (well, when the user knows what they are doing).  I definitely teared up when Teft spoke his Third Ideal (especially when he reference himself as the person he hates the most).  More yelling in joy when Dalinar spoke his Third ideal/created Honor's Perpendicularity.  I'm still trying to grasp how crazy powerful Dalinar is (and he isn't even a fully realized Bondsmith yet).

[king of nowhere]

52 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

i find this highly foreshadowing

You see, it has been my experience that no matter where you go, you will find some who abuse their power.” He shrugged. “Eye color is not so odd a method, compared to many others I have seen. If you were to overthrow the lighteyes and place yourselves in power, Moash, I doubt that the world would be a very different place. The abuses would still happen. Simply to other people.” Kaladin nodded slowly, but Moash shook his head. “No. I’d change the world, Sigzil. And I mean to.”

WotK Chapter 46: "child of tanavast"

funny thing, he actually did change the world. now the abuse don't happen anymore to some people or some other. no, they happen to everybody. human? kept as a slave and scheduled for exterminatiion. singer? will be sacrificed to reborn a fused. spren? voidspren are conquering shadesmar as we speak. everybody is suffering. yay for equality!

[The Invested Beard]

10 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

funny thing, he actually did change the world. now the abuse don't happen anymore to some people or some other. no, they happen to everybody. human? kept as a slave and scheduled for exterminatiion. singer? will be sacrificed to reborn a fused. spren? voidspren are conquering shadesmar as we speak. everybody is suffering. yay for equality!

Thanks Moash.

[taliefer]

i must be in the minority, i felt this was easily the weakest of the 3 stormlight books so far.

it was still good, dont get me wrong. but it just wasnt as good a read as the other two. he did ALOT of world building in this book, which is great, but i think thats why so many people are so high on it.

i have 3 major problems which detracted from my enjoyment:

1- the shallan chapters were just annoying to read, and didnt feel at any way earned. she went from a strong character to one teetering on the edge, cause reasons. easily the weakest part of the book. which is surprising, i enjoyed her alot in my recent re-read.

2- While the payoff for Dalinar's arc was great (bringing the 3 realms together was the best part of the book) i felt the underlying tension was weak. he didnt  *actually* kill his wife, she lived up to her reputation of being dull of wit by sneaking into the city Dalinar was there to attack. like This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules? i actually found myself agreeing with younger Dalinar, which i really dont think was the intent here. i can understand why Dalinar would have so much strife for this, but it didnt come across to myself as i was reading. i couldnt empathize, which lowered impact it had on me.

3- this is the most minor, but while i understand these are broken people...enough is enough. we need more Adolin characters that arent neck high in angst to break up the flow. and i really hope he stays on the path hes on regarding murdering sadeas. that being, sure he can have the occasional moment of guilt, but he seems to realize it had to be done. i really hope he doesnt backslide.

 

on the positive side, Kaladin continues to be strong. i continue to think he is the best written protagonist ive ever read.

 

the Brandalanch at the end was really good, as usual, but again not as good as the other two books` Brandalanches at the end.

 

all in all, Brandon Sanderson has easily earned any benefit of the doubt required and continues to be my favorite author. i'll be curious to see if people are still so glowing about this book once the shine of it being new wears off, or if it really is just me in regarding it as the weakest of the books so far.

[kari-no-sugata]

6 hours ago, taliefer said:

all in all, Brandon Sanderson has easily earned any benefit of the doubt required and continues to be my favorite author. i'll be curious to see if people are still so glowing about this book once the shine of it being new wears off, or if it really is just me in regarding it as the weakest of the books so far.

You might want to see this thread:

 

[Blacksmithki]

It's interesting how it seems everyone either considered this book pretty much the best book ever or the worst of the three. And how some of the issues people have with the book are what other people love.

I saw a discussion over why people like Adolin when he isn't troubled and is mostly perfect and most of the rest of us like him for exactly that.

There was the post a bit above this one about not liking Evi's actions in trying to save the Rift, and a lot of us (going by this thread) love her for it and how amazingly kindhearted she was.

[vividox]

I've seen a lot of anti-Shallan comments on this book. I actually liked her story arc a lot. I think the split personalities and her struggle with them is really interesting - definitely not something you see in fantasy pretty much ever. She's teetering on the edge of legitimately crazy and being a planet-saving hero, and that dichotomy is fascinating to me. I dunno, maybe I can strangely relate some days (not that I'm going crazy or anything, just that sometimes you can feel completely overwhelmed or lost and other times you can accomplish something amazing and feel great about it).

[StormingTexan he/him]

2 hours ago, Blacksmithki said:

It's interesting how it seems everyone either considered this book pretty much the best book ever or the worst of the three. And how some of the issues people have with the book are what other people love.

I saw a discussion over why people like Adolin when he isn't troubled and is mostly perfect and most of the rest of us like him for exactly that.

There was the post a bit above this one about not liking Evi's actions in trying to save the Rift, and a lot of us (going by this thread) love her for it and how amazingly kindhearted she was.

A forum divided.. 

I'd say after further reflection the issue is these books are just so massive.. The format of the different parts make me feel like this is a collection of smaller stories. In the first two books the parts seemed to have a pretty cohesive flow as an ongoing continuation of an overall story but this one felt more segmented to me. So there were parts I thought that were the best writing Brandon has written so far while others fell a little short for me. I will say I appreciated the book as a whole more the second time around but this book felt a lot more loose than the previous two with some plot lines either not explored fully (to my satisfaction) or resolved in a somewhat underwhelming way. On the same hand some of the revelations in the book were almost overwhelming and completely unexpected this early on. Brandon does have an uncanny way of making me change my views and feelings of the characters from book to book which I think is done very much on purpose so I think some of the let down for people is how he changes our opinions sometimes of the characters we liked the most in previous books. There is a lot of limelight swapping going on and I can see how this can be frustrating to some.  I'd say I would rate this book behind WoR but in front of tWoK. 

 

[Nuatoma]

Boy there are a lot of responses to this thread... I got through page 6 and thought I'd better go write my stuff before I forget it.

So I liked the book, but maybe because of all the hype, I was just expecting more.  I will need to reread it and I hope it grows more on me because it does have a lot of potential. 

Scenes that I liked:

Kaladin returning to Hearthstone; reuniting with parents and meeting his brother.

Kaladin stopping the highstorm protecting the human slaves in Revolar

Jasnah's return

Bridge 4 POVs in Part 2, especially Rock's family reuniting.  Annoyed with Teft.

Kaladin's illusion as they initially infiltrated Kholinar 

Storming the palace and subsequent battle/loss of Elhokar

Azure was a good character, wish she stayed with the group

Szeth POVs.

Part 5 was all awesome.  Felt dreadful initially because nothing was going there way, then things got brighter.

Characters I dislike:

Taravangian went even further down the pooper.  My least liked character now that Sadeas and Amaram are dead.

Moash.  Though I guess I still have some hope that he will return to the 'Light side of the force'

Nale.  I was hoping we were going to see him helping the humans, based on what we saw in Edgedancer and Brandon's comments that he needed this to explain Nale's new perspective in OB.  Was not the perspective I was expecting I guess.  I was expecting all of the Skybreakers to come help and Thaylenah.  So I wonder now what they were sent to do in Marat.

Thoughts/Unanswered Questions

Who is the Traitor mentioned on the back cover?  Seems several could fit this.  Moash.  Taravangian.  Nale.  Malata.  Even Venli could be considered a traitor to the parshman/Fused.

I wish we saw them figure out how to power Urithiru.  Was kind of expecting that after they found the gemstone pillar way back in Part 1.

My overall impression of the Ghostbloods increased positively.  Their intentions seem more altruistic than I originally thought.  At least they keep promises.

So maybe I just missed this and need to do a reread. (Of course I will, but not right now).  What exactly are the Fused?  They aren't spren are they?  Wit mentions dancing with one in the epilogue centuries earlier.  Are they shadows stuck in the Cognitive realm? Or shadows stuck in Damnation?

Oh, and also, yes, I was annoyed with all the Shallan personalities as well.  That being said, I'm surprised one of her personalities didn't mention being into Jasnah

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Rock's Stew

[Housedunn]

What I think I missed is that who will be king?

[Nuatoma]

That would be Jasnah, as she walked into the room with a crown.  Kind of a misdirection since it was a Paloma POV and she was talking up Sebarial a little.

[StormingTexan he/him]

20 minutes ago, Rock's Stew said:

So maybe I just missed this and need to do a reread. (Of course I will, but not right now).  What exactly are the Fused?  They aren't spren are they?  Wit mentions dancing with one in the epilogue centuries earlier.  Are they shadows stuck in the Cognitive realm? Or shadows stuck in Damnation?

According to the Stormfather

Quote

THEY ARE THE SPREN OF PARSHMEN LONG DEAD. THEY ARE THEIR KINGS, THEIR LIGHTEYES, THEIR VALIANT SOLDIERS FROM LONG, LONG AGO. THE PROCESS IS NOT EASY ON THEM. SOME OF THESE SPREN ARE MERE FORCES NOW, ANIMALISTIC, FRAGMENTS OF MINDS GIVEN POWER BY ODIUM. OTHERS ARE MORE … AWAKE. EACH REBIRTH FURTHER INJURES THEIR MINDS. THEY ARE REBORN USING THE BODIES OF PARSHMEN TO BECOME THE FUSED. AND EVEN BEFORE THE FUSED LEARNED TO COMMAND THE SURGES, MEN COULD NOT FIGHT THEM. HUMANS COULD NEVER WIN WHEN THE CREATURES THEY KILLED WERE REBORN EACH TIME THEY WERE SLAIN. AND SO, THE OATHPACT. THEY GAVE THEMSELVES UP. AS ODIUM IS SEALED BY THE POWERS OF HONOR AND CULTIVATION, YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION. THE HERALDS WENT TO HONOR, AND HE GAVE THEM THIS RIGHT, THIS OATH. THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD END THE WAR FOREVER.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 406). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by StormingTexan

[What's a Seawolf?]

14 hours ago, taliefer said:

1- the shallan chapters were just annoying to read, and didnt feel at any way earned. she went from a strong character to one teetering on the edge, cause reasons. easily the weakest part of the book. which is surprising, i enjoyed her alot in my recent re-read.

3- this is the most minor, but while i understand these are broken people...enough is enough. we need more Adolin characters that arent neck high in angst to break up the flow. and i really hope he stays on the path hes on regarding murdering sadeas. that being, sure he can have the occasional moment of guilt, but he seems to realize it had to be done. i really hope he doesnt backslide.

In regards to 1, I assumed Shallan's mental 'descent' in this book was a direct result of her oath/truth at the end of WoR.  I loved that Brandon didn't gloss over that and that it played a huge role in OB.  I may be wrong, but that's the impression I got.  Either way, I thought the switching personalities, especially as they started to meld, was fascinating to read.

3-  While I love how in depth Brandon has gone into the broken aspect of his characters, I love that Adolin is both power-free and more (seemingly) stable then the rest.  Plus in general seems happier, for lack of a better term.  He's a great foil for the rest of the main cast.  A couple more 'Adolin's' would not be amiss, but between Syl, Bridge 4 and Lift (to a degree, at least what has appeared on screen so far,) we have a fair amount of those.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

15 hours ago, taliefer said:

2- While the payoff for Dalinar's arc was great (bringing the 3 realms together was the best part of the book) i felt the underlying tension was weak. he didnt  *actually* kill his wife, she lived up to her reputation of being dull of wit by sneaking into the city Dalinar was there to attack. like This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules? i actually found myself agreeing with younger Dalinar, which i really dont think was the intent here. i can understand why Dalinar would have so much strife for this, but it didnt come across to myself as i was reading. i couldnt empathize, which lowered impact it had on me.

I feel you. I think Dalinar was a monster with all his savagery, lack of empathy, etc etc. But. Evi was indeed an idiot. She should have seen Dalinar was totally lost into bloodthirst, and if she should have begged of anyone it was of him and not the city. Plus she just thought Dalinar was dead, killed by the treachery of a lordling who Dalinar had given several opportunities of peacefully coming into the fold as a highlord. Did she really expect anything out of any of the two combatants in the field? That been said, what Dalinar did was terrible. Burning an entire city alive? Killing every single person in it? And even if acidentally killing his wife? Its not easy to stomach. I simply think Dalinar was a monster and Evi was a moron.

21 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

funny thing, he actually did change the world. now the abuse don't happen anymore to some people or some other. no, they happen to everybody. human? kept as a slave and scheduled for exterminatiion. singer? will be sacrificed to reborn a fused. spren? voidspren are conquering shadesmar as we speak. everybody is suffering. yay for equality!

Nice catch .

[Nuatoma]

Also, worldhopper sighted?  When Dalinar went to visit the Nightwatcher one of his men was Felt, who was more 'foreign' than Dalinar.  Mentioned before in TWOK or WoR as somebody in Dalinar's army, but also the house spy from Mistborn.  I'm like 95% sure it's the same person based on his wording with Dalinar.

If this has already been mentioned, sorry.  Too many pages to go through lol.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Rock's Stew

[fievelgoespostal]

8 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

THEY ARE THE SPREN OF PARSHMEN LONG DEAD. THEY ARE THEIR KINGS, THEIR LIGHTEYES, THEIR VALIANT SOLDIERS FROM LONG, LONG AGO. THE PROCESS IS NOT EASY ON THEM. SOME OF THESE SPREN ARE MERE FORCES NOW, ANIMALISTIC, FRAGMENTS OF MINDS GIVEN POWER BY ODIUM. OTHERS ARE MORE … AWAKE. EACH REBIRTH FURTHER INJURES THEIR MINDS. THEY ARE REBORN USING THE BODIES OF PARSHMEN TO BECOME THE FUSED. AND EVEN BEFORE THE FUSED LEARNED TO COMMAND THE SURGES, MEN COULD NOT FIGHT THEM. HUMANS COULD NEVER WIN WHEN THE CREATURES THEY KILLED WERE REBORN EACH TIME THEY WERE SLAIN. AND SO, THE OATHPACT. THEY GAVE THEMSELVES UP. AS ODIUM IS SEALED BY THE POWERS OF HONOR AND CULTIVATION, YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION. THE HERALDS WENT TO HONOR, AND HE GAVE THEM THIS RIGHT, THIS OATH. THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD END THE WAR FOREVER.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 406). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Can someone explain how this fits in with what we now know about the origins of humans on Roshar?  So humans brought Surgebinding to Roshar (i'm assuming it was thru Odiums spren/voidspren) and confronted the Parshmen who served Honor. At some point, the humans and Parshmen switched roles/Gods. 

The Stormfather says above that even before the Parshmen learned the surges, men couldnt defeat them.  Were the human voidbringers that invaded Roshar losing to the Parshmen even with their Surgebinding abilities? 

[Fulminato he/him]

6 hours ago, fievelgoespostal said:

Can someone explain how this fits in with what we now know about the origins of humans on Roshar?  So humans brought Surgebinding to Roshar (i'm assuming it was thru Odiums spren/voidspren) and confronted the Parshmen who served Honor. At some point, the humans and Parshmen switched roles/Gods. 

The Stormfather says above that even before the Parshmen learned the surges, men couldnt defeat them.  Were the human voidbringers that invaded Roshar losing to the Parshmen even with their Surgebinding abilities? 

odium come with the first men. after some time the man abandon odium for honor, the singer outrage from the 'god's betrayal' pledge their loyality to odium, and odium make the fused after. the men don't gain the surge before the heralds, because the spren mimicked the honorblade.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Fulminato

[Blacksmithki]

9 hours ago, fievelgoespostal said:

Can someone explain how this fits in with what we now know about the origins of humans on Roshar?  So humans brought Surgebinding to Roshar (i'm assuming it was thru Odiums spren/voidspren) and confronted the Parshmen who served Honor. At some point, the humans and Parshmen switched roles/Gods. 

The Stormfather says above that even before the Parshmen learned the surges, men couldnt defeat them.  Were the human voidbringers that invaded Roshar losing to the Parshmen even with their Surgebinding abilities? 

@Fulminato

Presumably they use surge binding for anything of that type, like chicken for any bird, so it could be drastically different from the surge binding we see.

Also, this could be post god swap that this quote is referring to, it seems implied to be as much due to the fuzed being implied to have been created by Odium.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Blacksmithki

[Fulminato he/him]

5 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

@Fulminato

Presumably they use surge binding for anything of that type, like chicken for any bird, so it could be drastically different from the surge binding we see.

Also, this could be post god swap that this quote is referring to, it seems implied to be as much due to the fuzed being implied to have been created by Odium.

the fused are powered by odium, and we see they can use the surge (gravitation and abrasion for sure). a surgebind is a bond between a man and a spren. the spren saw the honorbalde (honor sliver give to the heralds) and mimicked them.

[Sassideeee]

I disagree with Shallan and Adolin being boring. I think it would be boring to have a love triangle between them. There tends to be a trend in literature that makes strong female characters involved in love triangles between two men. I think BOTH situations simulate real life situations- I’ve seen many people get caught up in a messy love triangle. I’ve also seen people who recognize their temptation for other people, but practice self-control. Honestly, I think it’s super refreshing to see a character NOT get sucked into the triangle. I could definitely see Sanderson killing off Adolin at some point to explore this relationship in the later years, though I hope it doesn’t happen. Personally, I’m crossing my fingers for a Kaladin-Jasnah relationship. I think that would be such a unique and interesting storyline.