[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[StormingTexan he/him]

That is a pretty fair review and I also agree with what @maxal says above. Very similar to tWoK for me after re-reading Oathbringer I appreciate it a lot more on the second time through. Once I can get the  destination of "what is going to happen next" out of my forethought I start to enjoy the journey of the story (see what I did there?). The glaring issue by far is so many things are crammed into this book that a lot of what was setup in previous books is left unexplored to it's full potential. It seemed like Brandon was in such a hurry to advance the story along with new plot lines he chose to dismiss the previous ones as quickly and unceremoniously as possible. All while somehow writing the biggest SA book yet. My only explanation is Brandon still has a lot of story to tell in the next two books in the front 5 and felt like he needed to speed up the progress. I do like the book and some of it is even great. 

[Vissy]

Yes! I read that review too. It sums up a lot of the problems I had with Oathbringer. Thanks for posting it here @Ammanas

I feel like Oathbringer could've used another few months to revise the structure of the book. A lot of viewpoints could've been excised entirely, and instead of jumping from POV to POV constantly Dalinar's flashbacks should've been linked to his own POVs more fluidly. It reads more like a script for a TV show than a book, I mean come on, I want to experience the journey and the characters, not be booted from chapter to chapter! The characters just more or less accepted anything for the sake of the plot (Dalinar ignoring multiple mentions of Adonalsium for example?), and it showed in the structure too. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Vissy

[MechaBiollante]

My favorite book in the series so far and maybe my favorite book ever read, answers so much, has the absolute best climax and is breath-takingly well paced despite its length. I've never felt such awe reading a book as I did during the I AM UNITY moment, I seriously considered it possible he'd turn bad. When Evi forgives him I legit teared up. How can I possibly wait for more?

[SallyA she/her]

On 11/14/2017 at 1:22 PM, Bridge Boy said:

But Finally, Do we really believe that Humans being the invaders to Roshar is what caused the recreance? There must be more to this right? That alone cannot be the reason, it's not nearly big enough, and more importantly it's been obvious since book one. I don't accept it. This is misdirection/slight of hand by Brandon. There will most certainly be more to this. 

I can see a correlation in some of Brandon's work with some parts of ancient archeology.

At one point in time there were several races evolving on EARTH (Orient, Ukraine//Anatolia//Europe, Maya, Turtle Island-N. America, India// Micronesia//Oz)  one was the Mother goddess culture in Aratta//Ukraine (see info below), and then came the arrival of the Sky Gods as they are referred to old Sumerian (proto-sumerian writings) scripts.  These sky Gods may have been the basis for the Singers, as they brought the farming and animal husbandry to humans in a wide distribution  (Indra's Net) -- beef, wool and beer!  These folks began wars on purpose (not at first, but they seemed to lose it here on this planet!)!  They seemed to revel in death and destruction eventually pulling mankind into their battles ... (the myth of the Horsemen, red for war, black for disease?), and the peoples of Aratta//Ukraine seem to have begun issuing a warning, actually!  --- When this race found Earth.

It may have been (and this paragraph is all cojecture) that these sky gods had a mission to re-breathe life into one of their ancient kings, and to this end harvested human energy from soldiers dying on the battlefield.  [see Senmut tomb ceiling link, below]  I surmise this from a certain very old crop circle, and Odin's Ravens//Valkyries.  Creepy, no doubt, but not every evolution of beings shares the same level, of civility or evolutionary grace. 

Inanna was brought back from death with certain instruments in a story about her trip into the underworld.

As Brandon's Magic systems seem to predate this era, it may be that these ("some" humans) desolations -- are as eras of mankind; --- and a facit of history, but not a pattern of continued influence.  Mankind has a very long history on this lovely Spaceship Earth, and her story tellers are in some respects heros in their own right.

I have to admit to being in awe of Brandon's Universe and his competence as an author.  Awaiting the next 2 books of the Stormlight group.

[SallyA she/her]

About the "shallow romance" . . . Shallan is 17 freaking years old, first time away from home! . . . Andolin barely 20?  No experience and winging it badly . . . Very good thing the attraction is solid!

About the largess of the book ... many words, some interludes .... Brandon is a thorough author!  ... Two more books coming up. :-)

I FOR ONE, WILL BE TAKING NOTES . .  (short or more) on the interludes when I read it for the second time ... BECAUSE ....I suspect this is setting the base for the next two volumes . . . Which no one is going to grouse about being too long, and ending too quickly ... (I'm fairly certain!)

[SallyA she/her]

On 12/3/2017 at 8:40 AM, Housedunn said:

I just had a thought. Kaladin is immune to the Thrill and oathbringer shows that all knights radiants are not immune to it. Why do you think so, and to expand on it, do you think that Kaladin could be immune to other mental power like Nightblood's influence or Soothing or Rioting?

I had a possible epiphany about Kaladin, but he is a Surgebinder, like Szeth, and that causes him to dislike shardblades, intensely (a telling trait?).

I think the Spren he bonded before Syl (because some can bond more than one) . . might have been the Stormfather himself!  [[ And in a book we may never see, before Warbreaker, Kaladin who does not take up even side swords, was taught sword skills by Vanth   Vasher?  Holy, moley!' This is over on the Brandon comments and somewhere in this thread as a quote!]]

It makes a kind of sense that Kaladin bonding the Stormfather is why Syl ran off to find him and bind him to her ["I choose this one." She said during a calamity, ostensibly with other spren listening! . .  And this is after she has been said to have been killed by Kaladin thinking and speaking about killing Elkohar, -- the part that must be amputated .. stormlight has not entered his mental view on medical training, though he is aware subconsciously.]

During the HIGHSTORMS all three realms are united, (how the gems recharge), and Shallan and Kaladin saw the two giant shining forms walking across the shattered plains when they were sheltering during the highstorm, after the assination//bridge collapse fiasco.  

Kaladin has visions, short personal visions, which bring him into living contact with the Stormfather Spren.  Hmmmm . .

After Kaladin has thoroughly vetted the intentions of the current day Dalinar (He stresses over the purity of the intentions of Dalinar, when talking to Syl!), --- then Dalinar is bonded to the Stormfather . .  prior to his perpendicularity epsode, during a storm, and during which he binds a Spren into the King's Drop.  Curiouser and curiouser . . .

All this leads me to wonder . . . Could Kaladin actually be the Champion of Odium?

Poor brain, have some Horn Eater stew and get a good night's sleep! . . .

A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red. Dalinar stared deep into those eyes, and felt a chill wash through him. Though the destruction raged around him, vaporizing rocks, those eyes frightened him more. He saw something terribly familiar in them. This was a danger far beyond even the storms. This was the enemy’s champion. And he was coming."

Page 24

 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by SallyA
correct vacuous .. mindless thinking !!!

[hippiedogmom]

 voidbringers are..... HUMANS!?!? 

[Landis963 he/him]

On 3/1/2018 at 1:30 AM, hippiedogmom said:

 voidbringers are..... HUMANS!?!? 

Quite the bait-and-switch, isn't it?  

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

OB is honestly one of the best works of Fantasy fiction I've had the pleasure of reading. It has the right mix of questions and revelations, actions and politicking. Dalinar's character arc in general was just powerful, and moving.  I didn't love the love triangle, but it turned out how I wanted.

[supersmith]

 

Spoiler

Ok everybody’s got to stop with the shalladin stuff. She married Adolin. Get over it. I actually really think their a good match. And Adolin keeps getting shafted left and right. I mean think about it, his dad, brother, wife, cousin and 

bodyguards are all radiants/ squires. He probably feels pretty left out. I mean Kaladin or shallan could have made him a squire. Or even Dallinar (can bondsmiths even have squires?) or renarin or even storming Jasnah for crying out loud. But no. Nobody even thinks about it. I’m glad Adolin got anything in OB. 

 

[DeployParachute]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ok everybody’s got to stop with the shalladin stuff. She married Adolin. Get over it. I actually really think their a good match. And Adolin keeps getting shafted left and right. I mean think about it, his dad, brother, wife, cousin and 

bodyguards are all radiants/ squires. He probably feels pretty left out. I mean Kaladin or shallan could have made him a squire. Or even Dallinar (can bondsmiths even have squires?) or renarin or even storming Jasnah for crying out loud. But no. Nobody even thinks about it. I’m glad Adolin got anything in OB. 

 

Friend, if you would classify Adolin's experience thus far in the SA as "getting shafted left and right", then I suspect you aren't going to like what is coming in future books...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

 

  Hide contents

Ok everybody’s got to stop with the shalladin stuff. She married Adolin. Get over it. I actually really think their a good match. And Adolin keeps getting shafted left and right. I mean think about it, his dad, brother, wife, cousin and 

bodyguards are all radiants/ squires. He probably feels pretty left out. I mean Kaladin or shallan could have made him a squire. Or even Dallinar (can bondsmiths even have squires?) or renarin or even storming Jasnah for crying out loud. But no. Nobody even thinks about it. I’m glad Adolin got anything in OB. 

 

I don't know why you put this in spoilers, it wasn't required... I just wanted to say I did found it odd no one commented on the fact Adolin was not made a Radiants... Here they are, about the fight an endless battle against the Voidbringers and not one, besides Kaladin, of their Radiants is actually a field soldier, a general or someone having any valid military knowledge. Pretending Jasnah knows everything is cute and everything, but no way has she anywhere near a tenth of Adolin's field experience: the boy was raised in a warcamp.

I thought it was bizarre Dalinar didn't reflect on it, didn't wonder why her perfect son wasn't chosen while is sick one was. Or didn't think how useful it would be if one of those Radiants could have been a ranking officer... Or thinking it would be more useful to have Adolin have surges than little Lift.

On the squire comment though, it isn't just up to the Radiants to decide who becomes a squire... A squire first needs to become one and it is clear Adolin has no intention to turn himself into a squire. He admires the Radiants, but he thinks they are up there and he is down there. He is no squire because he doesn't want to emulate any of the Radiants, unlike every single other squire.

[DeployParachute]

28 minutes ago, maxal said:

I thought it was bizarre Dalinar didn't reflect on it, didn't wonder why her perfect son wasn't chosen while is sick one was. Or didn't think how useful it would be if one of those Radiants could have been a ranking officer... Or thinking it would be more useful to have Adolin have surges than little Lift.

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ok everybody’s got to stop with the shalladin stuff. She married Adolin. Get over it. I actually really think their a good match. And Adolin keeps getting shafted left and right. I mean think about it, his dad, brother, wife, cousin and 

bodyguards are all radiants/ squires. He probably feels pretty left out. I mean Kaladin or shallan could have made him a squire. Or even Dallinar (can bondsmiths even have squires?) or renarin or even storming Jasnah for crying out loud. But no. Nobody even thinks about it. I’m glad Adolin got anything in OB. 

 

Perhaps, despite all the things that Adolin excels at and had been gifted with in his life, that these things are not what would make him worthy of attracting a spren to become Radiant? Maybe the spren know something about him we don't?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Perhaps, despite all the things that Adolin excels at and had been gifted with in his life, that these things are not what would make him worthy of attracting a spren to become Radiant? Maybe the spren know something about him we don't?

I agree there might elements within Adolin's life which made him unsuitable to the sprens having chosen to investigate his family (though apart from the classic "he's not broken enough", I really don't see what he doesn't have he'd need to have for one spren to pick him, considering he is a Kholin), but in-world characters are practically clueless as to why a given individual is made a Radiant and not another. Considering every known Kholin is a Radiant, I found the fact no one questioned why Adolin, of all people, was left out a bit odd... It seems to me it would have been within Dalinar's character to question why his "deeply honorable son walking the path he set for him" wasn't picked. Why Renarin? Why not Adolin? As for Renarin, it is odd to he isn't wondering why he was chosen over Adolin, the brother who can never do no wrong, the brothers who always knows what to do? Why isn't Renarin not wondering why he and not Adolin was made a Radiant?

The lack of in-world questioning was bizarre. Even if not Adolin, I feel Dalinar should have wondered why no higher ranked officers was chosen, no Highprince, no individual with the military knowledge to make a greater difference onto the battlefield. No one seems to think it matters Adolin is not a Radiant and this too was odd to me.

It would make a nice question for Brandon... Why aren't in-world characters, especially Dalinar/Renarin, not asking why Adolin wasn't made a Radiant?

[GarrethGrey]

57 minutes ago, maxal said:

I don't know why you put this in spoilers, it wasn't required... I just wanted to say I did found it odd no one commented on the fact Adolin was not made a Radiants... Here they are, about the fight an endless battle against the Voidbringers and not one, besides Kaladin, of their Radiants is actually a field soldier, a general or someone having any valid military knowledge. Pretending Jasnah knows everything is cute and everything, but no way has she anywhere near a tenth of Adolin's field experience: the boy was raised in a warcamp.

I thought it was bizarre Dalinar didn't reflect on it, didn't wonder why her perfect son wasn't chosen while is sick one was. Or didn't think how useful it would be if one of those Radiants could have been a ranking officer... Or thinking it would be more useful to have Adolin have surges than little Lift.

On the squire comment though, it isn't just up to the Radiants to decide who becomes a squire... A squire first needs to become one and it is clear Adolin has no intention to turn himself into a squire. He admires the Radiants, but he thinks they are up there and he is down there. He is no squire because he doesn't want to emulate any of the Radiants, unlike every single other squire.

Maybe Adolin isnt a Radiant because he's hauling around a spren corpse everywhere? Or maybe he's just not cut out to be a Radiant? I like how you refer to Adolin as the "perfect" son who doesn't get to be a Radiant, but Renarin as the "sickly" one who does. So, because Adolin got to grow up strong, handsome, well liked, and was always daddy's favorite he's more deserving of being a Radiant than sickly Renarin, who's been ostracized his whole life because of his health? Right.

Then theres Jasnah, no one is pretending she knows everything, she's head and shoulders more intelligent than Adolin. And he's not actually a "boy" but a 23 year old man, and if hes so smart and capable, why doesn't he step up and do something, instead of you know, playing at fashion while everybody else actually does the work?

[StormingTexan he/him]

I may be off base here but I don’t think maxal is neccesarialy saying Adolin should be a radiant but that people like Dalinar, Renarin and Jasnah should be questioning why he hasn’t attracted a spren. Obviously they need more KR and there is no discussion about any of this in the books. No one is questioning why Renarin got picked and not Adolin who’s a master duelist and military leader. These questions would be logical yet they are completely missing. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by StormingTexan

[DeployParachute]

6 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I may be off base here but I don’t think maxal is neccesarialy saying Adolin should be a radiant but that people like Dalinar, Renarin and Jasnah should be questioning why he hasn’t attracted a spren. Obviously they need more KR and there is no discussion about any of this in the books. No one is questioning why Renarin got picked and not Adolin who’s a master duelist and military leader. These questions would be logical yet they are completely missing. 

Perhaps because these characters understand at a deeper level that it is the spren who choose, not the individuals. Maybe all the individuals you and maxal named recognize that they have flaws that played a role in their selection, and they recognize that Adolin doesn't have any flaws (something to assist in breaking open of their spirit web that allows the bond to form), and it just goes without saying that he is not in a place where he would attract spren. Maybe, because Adolin hasn't been confronted with any issues severe enough to challenge his behavior and morals, he shouldn't be trusted with access to surges quite yet...

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, GarrethGrey said:

Maybe Adolin isnt a Radiant because he's hauling around a spren corpse everywhere? Or maybe he's just not cut out to be a Radiant? I like how you refer to Adolin as the "perfect" son who doesn't get to be a Radiant, but Renarin as the "sickly" one who does. So, because Adolin got to grow up strong, handsome, well liked, and was always daddy's favorite he's more deserving of being a Radiant than sickly Renarin, who's been ostracized his whole life because of his health? Right.

Then theres Jasnah, no one is pretending she knows everything, she's head and shoulders more intelligent than Adolin. And he's not actually a "boy" but a 23 year old man, and if hes so smart and capable, why doesn't he step up and do something, instead of you know, playing at fashion while everybody else actually does the work?

@StormingTexan got it right: I am not questioning why Adolin was not made a Radiant. I am questioning why the in-world characters aren't asking themselves why? They do not have our knowledge. They are barely aware of the "broken criteria", they don't really know why one is chosen and not another. It is odd there aren't asking themselves more questions.

My post has nothing to do with Adolin deserving it more than Renarin: it has to do with why Dalinar isn't thinking it. Why Renarin isn't thinking it. Not myself, they.

I never said Jasnah was not deserving, but we can't pretend she has anywhere near the field experience of Adolin nor his military knowledge. She can't. She isn't a soldier. She wasn't raised to be a soldier. No one we know in-world was raised to be a soldier like Adolin.

I think you completely misunderstood my post. 

12 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I may be off base here but I don’t think maxal is neccesarialy saying Adolin should be a radiant but that people like Dalinar, Renarin and Jasnah should be questioning why he hasn’t attracted a spren. Obviously they need more KR and there is no discussion about any of this in the books. No one is questioning why Renarin got picked and not Adolin who’s a master duelist and military leader. These questions would be logical yet they are completely missing. 

Yep. This is exactly it. Why aren't they wondering about it? Why aren't they questioning why Renarin was picked? Sure we, the readers, are able to rationalize it, but in-world characters? Based on what they know? 

Those questions are unbelievably logical and yet, they were skipped.

2 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Perhaps because these characters understand at a deeper level that it is the spren who choose, not the individuals. Maybe all the individuals you and maxal named recognize that they have flaws that played a role in their selection, and they recognize that Adolin doesn't have any flaws (something to assist in breaking open of their spirit web that allows the bond to form), and it just goes without saying that he is not in a place where he would attract spren. Maybe, because Adolin hasn't been confronted with any issues severe enough to challenge his behavior and morals, he shouldn't be trusted with access to surges quite yet...

They don't know it is their flaws which made them Radiants... Kaladin knows, to some extend, but not Dalinar. Not Renarin. Not Shallan either. They don't really know. And considering the number of viewpoints we have on Radiants, if they had an inane sense as to why they were chosen, they'd speak about it. On the contrary, Teft doesn't understand why he is chosen and not someone else.

The Radiants are nearly clueless and given they know so little, their lack of questions is odd.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by maxal

[GarrethGrey]

 

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

@StormingTexan got it right: I am not questioning why Adolin was not made a Radiant. I am questioning why the in-world characters aren't asking themselves why? They do not have our knowledge. They are barely aware of the "broken criteria", they don't really know why one is chosen and not another. It is odd there aren't asking themselves more questions.

My post has nothing to do with Adolin deserving it more than Renarin: it has to do with why Dalinar isn't thinking it. Why Renarin isn't thinking it. Not myself, they.

I never said Jasnah was not deserving, but we can't pretend she has anywhere near the field experience of Adolin nor his military knowledge. She can't. She isn't a soldier. She wasn't raised to be a soldier. No one we know in-world was raised to be a soldier like Adolin.

I think you completely misunderstood my post. 

Yep. This is exactly it. Why aren't they wondering about it? Why aren't they questioning why Renarin was picked? Sure we, the readers, are able to rationalize it, but in-world characters? Based on what they know? 

Those questions are unbelievably logical and yet, they were skipped.

It seems I did misunderstand a bit, my bad. However I do understand the question of why the characters don't question it, and I just don't think its relevant in world, right now. A desolation just started, the Radiants have just been refounded, the last thing on anybody's mind is why Adolin isn't one. They have bigger things to worry about than why Renarin or Jansah is a KR and Adolin isn't. I get the question, I get why the characters might want to question it, I just dont think its at the top of their priority list as to why Adolin specifically isn't a Radiant.

[DeployParachute]

12 minutes ago, maxal said:

They don't know it is their flaws which made them Radiants... Kaladin knows, to some extend, but not Dalinar. Not Renarin. Not Shallan either. They don't really know. And considering the number of viewpoints we have on Radiants, if they had an inane sense as to why they were chosen, they'd speak about it. On the contrary, Teft doesn't understand why he is chosen and not someone else.

The Radiants are nearly clueless and given they know so little, their lack of questions is odd.

Every one of those individuals have reflected on their flaws (well, perhaps not Jasnah yet, but that is a lack of viewpoint issue likely), the fact that they are flawed.  They all also view Adolin as, if not flawless, at least a better person than they are, so again, perhaps instinctually they know. Your speculation about how they all should be asking those questions has about as much support a my speculation as to why they don't question it. So in the end, all I can offer you is reasonable explanations contrary to what you have put forth. I don't think it is odd at all. They know Adolin is different, and perhaps that is enough for them to not question it further.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, maxal said:

The Radiants are nearly clueless and given they know so little, their lack of questions is odd.

It actually isn't. If they can't precisely determine the requirements to being chosen by a spren, how and why should they infer, that Adolin is worth it more than others?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GarrethGrey said:

It seems I did misunderstand a bit, my bad. However I do understand the question of why the characters don't question it, and I just don't think its relevant in world, right now. A desolation just started, the Radiants have just been refounded, the last thing on anybody's mind is why Adolin isn't one. They have bigger things to worry about than why Renarin or Jansah is a KR and Adolin isn't. I get the question, I get why the characters might want to question it, I just dont think its at the top of their priority list as to why Adolin specifically isn't a Radiant.

One of Dalinar's priority is to get more Radiants and to train his Radiants. He beamed with pride when he learned about Renarin: end of the world or not, he knows he is going to need many more Radiants if humanity is to have a chance. As a military leader himself, he ought to know he'll need Radiants able to lead armies. 

The fact he is spending time thinking of how bad it is they lost Sadeas's military mind, but not thinking why no one more military inclined was chosen is very odd. 

As for Adolin, the fact he was left out is so blatant, end of the world or not, it would have been very human, realistic and normal they would ask themselves why. They all think very highly of Adolin.

2 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Every one of those individuals have reflected on their flaws (well, perhaps not Jasnah yet, but that is a lack of viewpoint issue likely), the fact that they are flawed.  They all also view Adolin as, if not flawless, at least a better person than they are, so again, perhaps instinctually they know. Your speculation about how they all should be asking those questions has about as much support a my speculation as to why they don't question it. So in the end, all I can offer you is reasonable explanations contrary to what you have put forth. I don't think it is odd at all. They know Adolin is different, and perhaps that is enough for them to not question it further.

Kaladin needed Syl to tell him before he started understanding... Many of them have reflected on the fact they were too flawed to be Radiants... 

Our characters also know so little about the various orders... I don't buy the argument they have some sort of "sixth sense" which makes them never ask the question.

3 minutes ago, SLNC said:

It actually isn't. If they can't precisely determine the requirements to being chosen by a spren, how and why should they infer, that Adolin is worth it more than others?

It is not even a matter of thinking Adolin deserves it, it is more a matter of having every single Kholin being a Radiant, except him, is so blatant, it is odd it didn't register into anyone's mind. Had no Kholin been a Radiant, had we only have Dalinar or just Jasnah, I wouldn't be making the commentary, but there are four of them, if we count Elhokar. 

It also isn't within Dalinar's character not to ask the question.

[DeployParachute]

Further thoughts

4 minutes ago, maxal said:

One of Dalinar's priority is to get more Radiants and to train his Radiants. He beamed with pride when he learned about Renarin: end of the world or not, he knows he is going to need many more Radiants if humanity is to have a chance. As a military leader himself, he ought to know he'll need Radiants able to lead armies. 

The fact he is spending time thinking of how bad it is they lost Sadeas's military mind, but not thinking why no one more military inclined was chosen is very odd. 

As for Adolin, the fact he was left out is so blatant, end of the world or not, it would have been very human, realistic and normal they would ask themselves why. They all think very highly of Adolin.

What makes you think that Adolin is not capable of leading armies, even Radiant armies, simply because he himself does not have a bond with a spren? If Adolin is as much of a capable and brilliant and experienced military commander that you say, why would Dalinar not utilize him anyway? Perhaps Dalinar doesn't ask these questions because he doesn't value his son less simply because he doesn't have a bond. Perhaps Dalinar never doubted his son will have a role to play. Perhaps Dalinar has more faith in Adolin's future without Radiancy than you do.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeployParachute said:

Further thoughts

What makes you think that Adolin is not capable of leading armies, even Radiant armies, simply because he himself does not have a bond with a spren? If Adolin is as much of a capable and brilliant and experienced military commander that you say, why would Dalinar not utilize him anyway? Perhaps Dalinar doesn't ask these questions because he doesn't value his son less simply because he doesn't have a bond. Perhaps Dalinar never doubted his son will have a role to play. Perhaps Dalinar has more faith in Adolin's future without Radiancy than you do.

At the Thaylenar battle, Dalinar doesn't bother himself with Adolin: he only focused on the Radiant, he didn't even think he also had Adolin as a resource. I would thus not argue Dalinar is not Radiant focused.

Adolin was presented as a capable military leader, I never said he was brilliant, you did, but Dalinar does complain over having lost too many officers. In this optic, why isn't he looking out to get Radiants officers does strike me as odd. 

I also never said anything about Dalinar valuing Adolin less, though he did leave him out of the battle.... They need Radiants. Humans can't fight the Desolation. They can't defeat the thunderclasts nor the Fused. It isn't a matter of what Dalinar thinks of Adolin, but a matter of him needing more Radiants, having his entire family being Radiants except the one son having the most military inclined abilities. He is going to need Radiant officers... He ought to know this, so his lack of questioning remains, odd.

This isn't about Adolin's future or what Dalinar thinks of it or myself, this about the elephant sitting in the room and no one is actually speaking about . When everyone in a given family suddenly gets super-powers, isn't it normal to ask why one was left out? It isn't about thinking Adolin has no more future or is irrelevant, it is about observing the fact all Kholins are Radiant, except him.

It is normal for humans to ask themselves questions. In Oathbringer, our characters didn't ask many and this is one questions no one asked why was very obvious to me. This was very odd, to me at least.

I see no one else thought it was odd, but it wasn't very realistic to me they didn't question the process more. This is all.

[DeployParachute]

3 minutes ago, maxal said:

This isn't about Adolin's future or what Dalinar thinks of it or myself, this about the elephant sitting in the room and no one is actually speaking about . When everyone in a given family suddenly gets super-powers, isn't it normal to ask why one was left out? It isn't about thinking Adolin has no more future or is irrelevant, it is about observing the fact all Kholins are Radiant, except him.

I think you know why this is. We've discussed it at length before. Just trying to offer alternatives in order to keep the dream alive. Take it or leave it.

Also: "He beamed with pride when he learned about Renarin"

this is the sentence that stood out to me as suggesting you felt Dalinar felt some sort of elevated sense of satisfaction for the son who was radiant, and perhaps the son who wasn't had fallen down in worth, at least in Dalinar eyes. Overall, the tone of your posts here suggest (rightly or wrongly) that you find these characters at fault for not having the same thoughts and questions about Adolin that you do. So my reading of them reflected my thought that you assumed the worst about the characters motivations in this regard.