[OB] Oathbringer chapters 31 & 32

[hoser he/him]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

So, here is some random speculation.  The everstorm is here, and has made a few loops of the planet.  Our heroes have gathered at Urithiru.  All the heralds are (probably, if the man referred to as Taln is actually Taln) wandering around in varying degrees of sanity.  We know at least two of these heralds are slotted to be back five flashback characters.

 

So what are the chances that at least a handful of the (mostly) sane Heralds show up in Urithiru this book?  I mean there are some depictions of Shalash in Urithiru that aren't defaced, Nale and a maybe-Kalak have been active?  With the way things are moving, and with Dalinar giving out visions the way Oprah gives out cars, and the Oathgates reactivating...  It seems more than plausible that a few of the Heralds might decide to show up, and oh, I don't know, do their Storming jobs?

Yes!  And Hoid apparently knows that the Heralds are still around.  Maybe Dalinar can even give the Heralds a call on the Stormfatherphone, watch and discuss old times on Honorvision and start kicking some serious Odious butt. 

[Bcknight2]

1 hour ago, QuantumHarmonix said:

It would be interesting is Syl was the first spren to figure out how to bond with humans. That could put her before any restrictions that were placed on the Nahel Bond. Which might explain Kal’s odd abilities, why she wasn’t bonded with anyone during the recreance, and why the stormfather was so against her bonding anyone.

 

11 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Wasn't the Nahel bond formed after the Honorblades though, thereby automatically restricting the abilities of the bond to the abilities of the Honorblades?

I think the restrictions @QuantumHarmonix Was referring to are the Oaths... which were imposed on the Spren/surgebinders when the Knights Radiant were founded, sometime after the first spren bonded humans.

I am unclear as to why Syl being one of the first spren to bond humans would grant Kaladin any additional power, as she is clearly constrained by the oaths now.

Plus, I thought the only reason we believed Kal was demonstrating powers that aren't typical of a Windrunner was because Syl was surprised at what he could do... That probably wouldn't be the case if something weird about her was giving Kal additional abilities.

[Leyrann]

Remind me to come back to this topic in a week. (if I don't do so myself)

Edited November 8, 2017 by Leyrann

[paperstones he/him]

We had Radiants before Honor was splintered therefore we had Honorspren. What if after Honor was splintered that power infused the Honorspren and made them more powerful?

[frozndevl]

Holy crap, in-world realization just struck me. No one knows that Jasnah was alive! To us, it's not a big deal at all, but everyone else must be shocked beyond belief. Getting into the minutiae sometimes can be a curse. 

And another thought based on Kaladin's uber special-ness... maybe he is otw to replacing Jezrien or filling the void left by the heralds. That'd be cool. Either that or because Syl knows what's up, she is able to give him a power boost subconciously, from her prior bond to a KR pre-recreance. I also wonder, we have the in-world book or statement that talks about the limits being placed on the KR via the oaths. Perhaps without the oaths the powers available to the Surgebinders eclipsed those of even 5th ideal KR. Maybe that's why Kaladin is so uber, because he is somehow gaining access to the higher level powers that most won't ever gain access to.

[kari-no-sugata]

2 hours ago, vividox said:

Agree with the majority of your post, but I'd just like to point out that a murder turning out to not be successful is no reason whatsoever for Shallan to stop hating the Ghostbloods for the attempt.

Hmm. On reflection... yes, that's true.

[vividox]

I wonder how long it's going to take me to read 900ish pages? T/W/Th is, unfortunately, the busiest part of my week.

[Fulminato he/him]

1 hour ago, vividox said:

I wonder how long it's going to take me to read 900ish pages? T/W/Th is, unfortunately, the busiest part of my week.

sleeping is overrated

[kari-no-sugata]

Just now, Fulminato said:

sleeping is overrated

Indeed. I'm pretty sure I managed to read WoR without sleeping. And after getting some sleep I started a re-read...

I booked a few days off next week as well.

[Duke of Lizards she/her]

4 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

As for Kaladin I found a paraphrased WoB which seems to suggest something's unique about him.

Can you share, please?

[Starla]

I am curious where Kaladin goes when he sees the Stormfather. Quote from Chapter 31:

Quote

Kaladin stood in that strange space where he’d seen the Stormfather before—a place that seemed outside of reality. The ground was far beneath him, dim, slicked with rain, but barren and empty. Kaladin hovered in the air. Not Lashed; the air was simply solid beneath him…. Kaladin dropped back into the tempest proper, and it seemed as if no time had passed. 

Is it some place between the physical and cognitive realms, outside of time? Or is it happening inside his head, like a dream, similar to the highstorm dreams? I don't recall seeing any other instances of this otherworldly place, aside from Stormfather encounters. I believe Eshonai had a similar experience in the WOR, when she bonded the storm spren in the highstorm.

Also, for a spren who seems to seriously dislike Kaladin, the Stormfather sure does interact with him a lot. He's like an overbearing dad who keeps showing up in the middle of his teenage daughter's dates, trying to intimidate the bad boyfriend with angry all-caps voice.

[IntentAwesome]

6 minutes ago, Starla said:

I am curious where Kaladin goes when he sees the Stormfather. Quote from Chapter 31:

Is it some place between the physical and cognitive realms, outside of time? Or is it happening inside his head, like a dream, similar to the highstorm dreams? I don't recall seeing any other instances of this otherworldly place, aside from Stormfather encounters. I believe Eshonai had a similar experience in the WOR, when she bonded the storm spren in the highstorm.

Also, for a spren who seems to seriously dislike Kaladin, the Stormfather sure does interact with him a lot. He's like an overbearing dad who keeps showing up in the middle of his teenage daughter's dates, trying to intimidate the bad boyfriend with angry all-caps voice.

Haha. Yes. The stormfather is Kaladin’s disapproving father-in-law, since they are ‘bonded’. 

Is it possible that Kaladin is actually using adhesion to solidify air. I’ve always wondered if he would be able to do that. I’m not a science person, so I don’t really understand all the mechanics of pressure and vacuum. But I’ve been waiting to see Kaladin create a shield/barrier out of adhered air. 

[Beatsmorn]

So, anybody thought that Fused was mimicking Kaladin powers? No? It's just me? I just don't like the idea of Fused using 'regular' Surgebinding, u know what i mean.

Besides, do u think they were Listeners in smokeform?

51th Stanza
Smokeform for hiding and slipping ’tween men.
A form of power—like Surges of spren.
Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies.
Crafted of gods, this form we fear.
By Unmade touch its curse to bear,
Formed from shadow—and death is near. It lies

 

[Beatsmorn]

Also:

- what the heck's a voidblade and why people talk about it in this tread?

- why do everybody still think Radiant Perks - or Resonances, if u prefer to call them like that - are result of reaction between Radiant Surges, even after Brandon kinda denounced it?

[Nymeros]

7 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Wasn't the Nahel bond formed after the Honorblades though, thereby automatically restricting the abilities of the bond to the abilities of the Honorblades?

Yup. Syl just has more holes in her memory that need to be filled.

I like the theory that Syl wasn't bonded during the recreance because her partner was killed prior to the reference.

@Beatsmorn

- It's a theory....the Voidbringers should have something to counter shardblades since they already have janky surges and voidlight.

-Brandon was the person who defined Resonances....what are you referring to?

Edited November 8, 2017 by Nymeros

[StormingTexan he/him]

40 minutes ago, Beatsmorn said:

- what the heck's a voidblade and why people talk about it in this tread?

Pure speculation at this point. I think people jumped on this as soon as we saw voidbringers using surgebinding (or I guess voidbinding) but I am not sold on it at all until we see something else. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by StormingTexan

[Starla]

1 hour ago, IntentAwesome said:

Is it possible that Kaladin is actually using adhesion to solidify air. I’ve always wondered if he would be able to do that. I’m not a science person, so I don’t really understand all the mechanics of pressure and vacuum. But I’ve been waiting to see Kaladin create a shield/barrier out of adhered air. 

That would be cool if he could create an air shield, but I don't think that's the case with the Stormfather visions. In the quote from Chapter 31, he says he could see the land below, but it was barren and empty, like he went to another place without people and human structures. Similarly, when he saw the Stormfather during the highstorm in the chasm in WOR, he noted that Shallan was gone, his leg no longer hurt, he could stand up in the small cubby, and the flood of water was frozen solid (time stopping?). Shallan also saw the SF in this episode, but seemed to see something different ("So vast . . . I could see stars in it, stars upon stars, infinity . . .”)

I think it's a dream-like vision that happens outside of time within the recipient's mind. I find it interesting that a spren can send a vision like this, especially to two people at once who see it differently. Dalinar's visions are probably similar, though they seem to take place within time as he thrashes about and mumbles while acting them out. Hopefully we'll get more info when he has his Skype-visions with the monarchs.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

1 hour ago, Beatsmorn said:

- why do everybody still think Radiant Perks - or Resonances, if u prefer to call them like that - are result of reaction between Radiant Surges, even after Brandon kinda denounced it?

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this. Brandon has said that holding two different "powers" (for lack of a better term) results in a Resonance. Wax, as a Twinborn, has a Resonance. Surgebinders, as a result of holding two different Surges, have a Resonance. Where did you see Brandon denounce this idea?

[Hero-of-Pages he/him]

35 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Sorry, not sure what you mean by this. Brandon has said that holding two different "powers" (for lack of a better term) results in a Resonance. Wax, as a Twinborn, has a Resonance. Surgebinders, as a result of holding two different Surges, have a Resonance. Where did you see Brandon denounce this idea?

I think the idea they are trying to get across is that surgebinders have resonances that seem to have little to do with combining their powers. Kaladin has strength of squires, Shallan has her memory, and the guesses we have for others are Lift potentially understanding languages and Dalinar... drawing out surges? While these are all supplementary to their nature, and seem sort of connected to their oaths, or helpful to their surge in the case of Shallan, none of them actually seem to be a combination of the KR surges, unless we use mental gymnastics.

[CaptainRyan he/him]

29 minutes ago, Hero-of-Pages said:

I think the idea they are trying to get across is that surgebinders have resonances that seem to have little to do with combining their powers. Kaladin has strength of squires, Shallan has her memory, and the guesses we have for others are Lift potentially understanding languages and Dalinar... drawing out surges? While these are all supplementary to their nature, and seem sort of connected to their oaths, or helpful to their surge in the case of Shallan, none of them actually seem to be a combination of the KR surges, unless we use mental gymnastics.

Ahhh, I see. The question was "why do Sharders keep trying to make a mixture of Gravitation and Adhesion = more squires". There is a WoB that states the powers being mixed are unrelated to the Resonance's effect?

[HoidsRock]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Pages said:

I think the idea they are trying to get across is that surgebinders have resonances that seem to have little to do with combining their powers. Kaladin has strength of squires, Shallan has her memory, and the guesses we have for others are Lift potentially understanding languages and Dalinar... drawing out surges? While these are all supplementary to their nature, and seem sort of connected to their oaths, or helpful to their surge in the case of Shallan, none of them actually seem to be a combination of the KR surges, unless we use mental gymnastics.

Kaladin's is at least tied to his secondary attributes of Jes in Ars Arcanum (leading).  Dalinar likewise has a link with Ishi (guiding).  But I have to resort to mental gymnastics for Shallan/Shash (Creative/Honest does not seem to link to memory).  As for Lift/Vev, the two stated attributes are loving/healing which do not necessarily link to language (a theory I otherwise like).

Thoughts?  Mental gymnastics welcome.

[Hero-of-Pages he/him]

16 minutes ago, HoidsRock said:

Kaladin's is at least tied to his secondary attributes of Jes in Ars Arcanum (leading).  Dalinar likewise has a link with Ishi (guiding).  But I have to resort to mental gymnastics for Shallan/Shash (Creative/Honest does not seem to link to memory).  As for Lift/Vev, the two stated attributes are loving/healing which do not necessarily link to language (a theory I otherwise like).

Thoughts?  Mental gymnastics welcome.

I think this makes sense. I generally believe that the resonances are tied more to the attributes associated with their order than their surges.

As for Shallan and Lift, I think explaining is going to be more abstract. Shallan uses her mnemonic abilities to facilitate her drawing, so it could be creativity. Or it could be honesty because she is remembering things as they were exactly, without her biases coming into it. For Lift my best guess would be that it has to do with communication. Like... in order to express love for someone there has to be some level of understanding and communication? IDK.

It could also be that it is more connected to their oaths then to the attributes. 

[JoyBlu she/her]

On 9/14/2017 at 10:26 PM, Calderis said:

Except an earlier excerpt says that the author expected to die. Jasnah didn't. If she did then wouldn't have laid there and let them stab her. 

I think Jasnah expected to die. I think she expected her entire family to die. That is why she hired an assasin to protect her and her family.  

On 11/7/2017 at 5:17 PM, SilverTiger said:

I want to know what'll happen next... But unfortunately, my getting the book is dependent on my grades. 

Sounds like you have good parents. My son has never been as on-top of his school assignments as he is this week. Use it as motivation! (Also, I bet you could go to your local library and ask them to order it. Maybe you could get first on a waiting list) My kids schools will always order in books that students request and are excited for. You could talk to your school librarian — you might be pleasantly surprised at the results. 

[Emile]

Does Dalinar and the rest know of Kaladin's involvement in the attempt on Elhokar? If so is everyone just okay with that? 

They have to know Moash was involved because he's missing and someone would have noticed the a missing shardbearer...does that mean Kaladin lied about his own initial involvement?

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

6 minutes ago, Emile said:

Does Dalinar and the rest know of Kaladin's involvement in the attempt on Elhokar? If so is everyone just okay with that? 

They have to know Moash was involved because he's missing and someone would have noticed the a missing shardbearer...does that mean Kaladin lied about his own initial involvement?

No-one seems to know about Kaladin's involvement in it. They all seem to have forgotten about Moash. I guess at the time they had bigger things to worry about, but the question about where is Moash may be asked soon. What I'm curious is if Kaladin told Bridge 4, since he seemed to be dreading doing so but knew he had to.