[OB] Oathbringer chapters 13-15

[Andy92]

@maxal We got chapters 13-15 today...don't jump too far ahead.  

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Bernem said:

@maxal I also was wondering where his mom was in his tutoring. Perhaps he is just talking about the time after she died. Or maybe she just wasn't very engaged in his learning. Navani did say she wasn't very clever, and Navani and Jasnah seem like they would jump at the opportunity to make sure their relatives are "properly educated".

I assumed he referred to period of his life after his mother died, though he was a teenager when she did die. I am surprised nonetheless. Navani states how she could never be close to Dalinar, how she always had to avoid him, so learning she did, in part, raise Adolin (and with Jasnah's help to boot it all) came as a surprise.

1 hour ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Hi @maxal I thought you'd enjoy the Shallan chapters and am glad you did. Very cute and I agree with all the points you listed. I'm really glad that Adolin is bringing much needed joy into Shallan's life, as well as confidence, knowledge and skills.

They were adorable. I thought those scenes showed exactly how complementary and oddly enough well assorted those two are. Their relationship felt genuine and meaningful. I truly felt they both wanted to be together, though they were both afraid to screw it up. A lot of people hare argued in the past Shallan did not love Adolin beyond his physic and what a relationship with him could mean for her family. A lot of people have argued Adolin was too dumb, too intellectually inadequate to be Shallan's spouse.

I read none of that during those scenes. Adolin showed a side of him he doesn't often let out: smart Adolin, book read Adolin and "yes I too actually have knowledge on stuff and it may be I know more than you on some subjects" Adolin. He was very classy about it, respectful and not detrimental. On Shallan's side, she opened up to him more than before, she told him about Kasbal and her fears. While they did not share their deepest secrets, they shared truths about each other.

Also, they come across as good accomplice, a good team able to work together. They were very well balanced, so yes I do hope those kids will remember their promise when the chull hits the fan.

[Asrael]

^^^Not to mention they don't have that awkward "I killed your favorite brother" issue between them like another certain pairing...

Edited September 27, 2017 by Asrael

[+ElephantEarwax]

I feel like May is getting mentioned as a red herring, which has been brought up. But what if it is only so we feel like something is going on until the assassin kills her?

On another note, its funny how Adolin talks about clothes, and Shallan points out that he looks through catalogs of them.

And the new spren, Shallanspren.

Edited September 27, 2017 by ElephantEarwax

[StormingTexan]

I told myself o wasn't going to read the preview chapters because it would just drive me crazy waiting for the book. This lasted until yesterday and I caved in reading them all eagerly waiting for the new ones to be posted today. 

These were not the most exciting chapters thus far. I did really like the interaction between Shallan and Adolin though. Pattern man that spen is hilarious!!! I'm glad he prevented the "accidental mating".

 

The listener card playing was interesting too especially the warning spren.

 

Ugh now a week of waiting..

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Andy92 said:

@maxal We got chapters 13-15 today...don't jump too far ahead.  

Honest mistake  I edited the post.

Edit: Question to all, during the training scene, I thought Shallan and Adolin would trade blows and I feared what would have happened. I mean, am I the only one really excited upon the prospect of Pattern Blade hitting Adolin Blade on the unprotected part? What would happen???

Edited September 27, 2017 by maxal

[J@sp3r]

Did anyone find any significance to the mention of "ruby and topaz light being cast by the sunset?" I mean, those are two sunset colors, but the use of "ruby and topaz" seemed a little foreshadowy, maybe suggesting something for Adolins future as a dustbringer? Probably grasping at straws.  

[asterion137]

2 minutes ago, J@sp3r said:

Did anyone find any significance to the mention of "ruby and topaz light being cast by the sunset?" I mean, those are two sunset colors, but the use of "ruby and topaz" seemed a little foreshadowy, maybe suggesting something for Adolins future as a dustbringer? Probably grasping at straws.  

Maybe. You can explain it away pretty easily as gem-based metaphors in a gem-based society but Branderson's foreshadowing is usually like that.

[Guest]

deep breaths

Alright, I've been sleeping over all of this Shallan / Adolin thing and I have come to the conclusion, that nothing really has changed. Except maybe having been given some foreshadowing about future conflict between the two. Especially that solemn promise, that they would not mess this up. Always backfires.

Chapter 13:

Nothing really to say here. Cute interactions. Some points like talking about Kabsal, which were nice. I think, that promise at the end was very romantic, but also dangerous. This chapter on it's own is a very compelling argument for the pairing. ... Just like every other chapter before the chasm in WoR was, though I'll admit, that Adolin is coming out of his own.

Chapter 15:

One important point, that I have found is Shallan's focus on the betrothal. Whenever the topic about a possible break up comes up, she thinks like this:

Quote

He’s going to break off our betrothal! a part of her mind thought, though she pounced on that emotion and shoved it back behind the curtains where it belonged.

Not Oh God, he wants to break up with me. But... this. What I also find strange is that there hasn't been a concrete admission of love yet. From either side. They are still constantly dancing around getting serious.

And she is still lying to him. Keeping secrets. Avoiding the elephant in the room. How about just saying, Yeah, sorry, babe, but I'm not cool with practicing swordplay with you right now. Because she is afraid of the why, that will come from Adolin. Is that really a healthy base for a relationship? Constantly being afraid around your SO? They are supposed to marry. To spend the rest of their lives together.

Noo, what does Shallan do? Create a different persona of herself. Great band-aid solution, I'm proud of you, Shallan.

6 hours ago, maxal said:

I did not read anything negative in Shallan needing to embrace another personality to overcome her difficulties with yielding Pattern Blade. I sincerely believe Adolin's love of Blades and teachings will help her overcome it.

Really? Creating Veil was one thing, but Brightness Radiant is taking a part of herself and separating it from her own. Just how she did it with Pattern, splitting him into spren and Blade. Her whole demeanor changes. By the way, she is deceiving Adolin. Adolin. Not some Ghostblood, but the man she is supposed to marry. I'm just astonished, how anyone can not see this as a problem.

And I don't get your second sentence: Adolin is not teaching Shallan right now. He's teaching Brightness Radiant. A different entity, that Shallan has created. How can that help Shallan overcome her fear of Pattern as a Blade? He is literally acting as an enabler, though he doesn't know it.

Yes, Shallan still has the hots for Adolin and vice versa. But does she trust him enough to be honest to him yet? No. Does she tell him, that she loves him? No. And I see that as a big problem. If she can't talk to Adolin, then I don't know who else.

A few weeks ago, I have said, that Shallan has explicit feelings for Adolin and implicit feelings for Kaladin. And I stand by it. Sure, right now everything looks peachy, but when Kaladin returns, he's definitely going to stir up the pot. Especially considering Shallan's mental state.

Edited September 27, 2017 by SLNC

[Darkness]

17 hours ago, Stark said:

Finally, for now, Shallanspren, Sylblade...  So... Uncle Stormfather? Wyndlefork? Glysblade? Ivory-balest?

Forklift. *fades back into obscurity*

 

Edit 1: 

16 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Tavernform 

Axies would be thrilled! The ever-elusive alespren, perhaps?

Edit 2:

11 hours ago, hypatia said:

I have a serious problem with the Radiant.

Whereas Veil or any other persona  Shallan impersonates don't have altered the Shallan within, the Radiant is seen as a real person apart from herself.

It is a new lie, a way to go back instead of working with the trauma.

It's understandable - for the first truths Patern was a neutral 'psychoanalyst', but within the memory of killing her mother, Pattern is a part of the memory itself.

She will need someone else to speak with, someone , who is able to understand.

It probably won't happen since Zahel has no reason to draw attention to himself, but I feel like Zahel would have some very good advice for Shallan regarding mental gymnastics/self-control. He has enough practise doing it without losing himself.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Darkness

[IntentAwesome]

Am I the only one who thinks the tent probably has children and/or the elderly in it? Just to pull on all of Kaladin's feels. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced the promise not to screw up is horrible foreshadowing. Many (myself included) think Brandon writing another arranged marriage which works out perfectly is unlikely. But another angle to look at, is that this is simply an idea Brandon believes about life and wants to make clear: any relationship in which both parties try and invest time will work out. The eventual buildup also feels a lot more natural than the usual love-at-first-sight-for no-good-reason trope. 

I was also a bit disturbed by the new personna, although I couldn't put my finger on why. I suspect because it makes her avoid the issue, but mainly because its a lie to Adolin. I'm fine with them leaving their past lies in the past for now, but creating new lies...thats where I get worried about their future chances.

On May Aladar, maybe she will be a secret society member, or a love interest to someone. However, she is basically Aladar's partner at the moment since his wife is not there. She plays the role of scribe, correspondant, etc. She is basically unoficial Highlady Aladar. Title isn't official but its her influence. Why she is sending reports on the murders is simple, Aladar is highprince of information in charge of investigating the murder. Adolin is Dalinar's liason on the murder. There is going to be heavy swap of reports between the two sides. But yes, more can come from her in future.

[Hyarmenatan]

7 hours ago, Musica said:

Do we know what broke Shallan originally and enabled her to become a Radiant?

Theory I crafted a minute ago:

Do we know whether a physical trauma can break people on Roshar? On Scadrial, it was a custom to beat people almost to death to break them to create cracks in Spiritual Web. One character even broke while he/she was born... If this can also be the case on Roshar, then the theory is:

Shallan broke as an newborn, due to the painfull/damaging labour, and was able to inhale Stormlight from the day 0. The only problem is that sprens are being lured to people with certain traits and characters, which infants won't show. However, this can be worked around in case there are other spren around, already bonded to other proto-radiants or radiants. So, I call it that Lin was already bonded to some spren (his soulcaster was always a imitation, like the one Jasnah possesed), and once Shallan was born, wounded during it, a 'spren friend' of Lin's spren bonded her in order to save her life. Voila. 

Please smash this theory in to pieces. The weakest point in it I can think of is that Brandon would not use the same plothole with breaking during labour for two major characters of his biggest books.
 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced the promise not to screw up is horrible foreshadowing.

Because it is an empty promise. How should they mess up something, that isn't already there. Does anyone really get the feeling of love between Adolin and Shallan? Affection, definitely, but not love. There is not enough trust between them. No feeling of unconditionality.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Just now, SLNC said:

Because it is an empty promise. How should they mess up something, that isn't already there. Does anyone really get the feeling of love between Adolin and Shallan? Affection, definitely, but not love. There is not enough trust between them. No feeling of unconditionality.

Of course there isn't love there yet. But I prefer to see fondness first, then trust, then love. It feels more organic than love, then trust someday and fondness forgotten .

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Of course there isn't love there yet. But I prefer to see fondness first, then trust, then love. It feels more organic than love, then trust someday and fondness forgotten .

I do agree, but it makes the promise moot. That is my point. You only should promise something like that, when you're completely sure you can pull through with it. I am not sure, that either Adolin or Shallan are ready for that.

No, I'm going even further. You shouldn't even have to make these kind of promises in the first place. It should come naturally, in the form of trust.

Edited September 27, 2017 by SLNC

[WhiteLeeopard]

Just now, SLNC said:

I do agree, but it makes the promise moot. That is my point. You only should promise something like that, when you're completely sure you can pull through with it. I am not sure, that either Adolin or Shallan are ready for that.

True. Maybe the promise should have been better phrased as "to not give up early" or to "continue past the hard stages" to be more meaningful.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

True. Maybe the promise should have been better phrased as "to not give up early" or to "continue past the hard stages" to be more meaningful.

That would have been an even bigger lie, since both don't seem to be ready to even try to push past the hard stages. Shallan even less than Adolin, though.

Edited September 27, 2017 by SLNC

[WhiteLeeopard]

20 minutes ago, SLNC said:

That would have been an even bigger lie, since both don't seem to be ready to even try to push past the hard stages. Shallan even less than Adolin, though.

I'm always willing to see how things progress with time. Time is the most important factor, not everything has to be done on the first week, but if they keep progressing and don't stagnate it will be okay. The biggest part will be their reaction to the other's lies. If they feel betrayed and break trust then there goes that relationship. If they embrace the other's lies and accept the person with the lies included I will firmly maintain their relationship is there to stay. Until that crucial moment nothing is set on stone with those two.

[Elena]

50 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Because it is an empty promise. How should they mess up something, that isn't already there. Does anyone really get the feeling of love between Adolin and Shallan? Affection, definitely, but not love. There is not enough trust between them. No feeling of unconditionality.

I do also think it sounds rather ominous, but in all fairness... they're young. They're inexperienced with relationships. They can't promise each other more than they know how to give, but they don't know that. I'm pretty sure most young couples at one point or another think they can take on the world together, and we can't fault them for having high hopes about their relationship.

[Dragos]

 

I'm the only one who does not like Adolin's attitude in this chapters?

What I mean is that he just  killed  a Highprince a few days ago and now he is having a date with his girlfrend without any worries. He makes jokes, laughs, makes promises for the future, he even brings his girlfriend notes to help him catch "the murderer". To take responsibility for what he did not even crosses his mind.

 We had enough chapters with Adolin in them, and we did not see any moment when he was worried about the effects of the crime on those around him : his father, his brother, his girlfriend who barely became radiant, his cousin, the king, all in very instable situations right now, all in a lot of trouble if his murder is discovered. 

Sadeas was a evil person, he deserves to die, we as readers know that, because we have "a god-like perspective"- we know a lot of the thinghs he did, but pople in that world dont (they probably suspect some things, they've heard rumors or they can use their brains to understand what's going on- but there's no proof). That murder, if discovered, will be seen as the way Dalinar has escaped his greatest rival, killing him "in a dark alley" without being seen by anyone, while preaching to other "unity" and respect for "the codes" (.will destroy what dalinar is trying to accomplish).

Adolin does not understand that? He does not care? I was expecting to see Adolin full of worries, depressed, trying to find a solution, a way to fix things- maybe recognizing the crime and facing the consequences, but but there's no sign of it. Instead he laughs and makes jokes with his girlfriend. And no, it is not his way to deal with what he did, is just normal Adolin.

It seems very wrong to me

 

This is my first post Sory for my English.

[Elena]

9 minutes ago, Dragos said:

This is my first post

Hiii! Welcome Have an upvote!

I personally don't agree. Adolin was a wreck over Sadeas's death from his own point of view - Shallan may think he's perfectly alright, but she can be self absorbed. That said, I think killing Sadeas was the best thing Adolin could have done and his family is currently in a strong enough position they can weather the fallout should he be discovered. Which I hope he won't because I don't believe he should face punishment for Sadeas's death, especially not when most main characters have done worse.

That said: I hope you'll stick around. And as a fellow ESL speaker, you're doing great

[hypatia]

@Dragos

Hello and welcome

I was worried about it too - but with your help I have found a solution for me.

Adolin acts like someone who "found a solution,  a way to fix things and had recognized the deed" - all this, but not to his father.

Has anyone notized that he shows the same body language as Elhokar in the last chapters?

 

[Logman]

Sad that the Kal chapter was so short but I am very curious to see what happens with those Parshendi. And did one of them bond a Spren? So cool!

I know there are people who don't want Adolin to become a Radiant, but I would like to see him awake in his blade. He clearly has a connection with his blade that no one else does and the comments from Shallan seem to point to him gaining an even deeper understanding of his blade. 

[Crucible of Shards]

I had one more thought: we have good reason to believe that shardblade guards were not made by the Knights Radiant. We had all the information already, but the scene with Adolin and Shallan clearly shows that for a living shardblade, the guards are not necessary. So who made them?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Crucible of Shards
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