[OB] Oathbringer chapters 13-15

[hypatia she/her]

@WhiteLeeopard

May I try?

Adonalsium creates Roshar with the Listener, perhaps even the Aimian and the Shin.

He is splintered, which has an effect on the magic.

(WoB, Leipzig

Qu.: Had the splintering of Adonalsium an caused a breakdown of the magic on other planets?

A.: There was an effect. Breakdown might not be the exact phrase, but it could fit.)

Two aspects of Adonalsium returned - Honor and Cultivation and brought human to Roshar.

Cultivation took partly responsibility for the Listeners.

(WoB

Are the Parshendi of Cultivation?

Not orginally)

The next is unsure what came first - the arrival of Odium or the founding of the Heralds and the Radiant Orders with the spren leaving the Listeners.

And it is also unsure, whether this perhaps has the Listener left open for the Odium Spren.

 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

She did, because the bond degraded. That's my whole point. 

Her Oaths were never broken though. She'd progressed far enough that pattern was a blade. If that had happened, Pattern would have been trapped as a Shardblade, and there would be no slow buildup to her Oaths being restored, it would have been like Kaladin speaking the third oath. All or nothing. 

Edit: @dendrophobe there is a WoB that says your right. She's one level above Kaladin and (presumably) the most advanced Radiant we know. 

We both think Shallan lost the ability to summon her Shardblade until she respoke Oaths, right? We also know that Pattern was not trapped in the Physical Realm in blade form. Is it not possible that the explanation is that she did, in fact, break Oaths 2 and 3 (her truths) while still retaining her first, generic Oath? She was still able to use Stormlight (as we see in during her encounter with Hoid) but she was unable to summon Pattern as a blade nor interact with him. Is there a WoB I am unaware of that states she never broke her oaths?

The difference with Kaladin might be that he was not just breaking his second Oath but he was breaking the base ideals of the Knights Radiant as well. Or, perhaps, Windrunner bonds are somewhat different and require strict fidelity at all levels whereas Truthwatchers are more flexible in this regard.

[Fulminato he/him]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Shallan, like Kaladin, has broken her bond in the past and re-formed it. She must have been advanced enough in the Nahel bond as a child to be able to summon Pattern as a Shardblade in self-defense against her mother, and then repressed/forgotten it all. Based on her flashbacks, it seems the way to break her "truth oaths" is to repress or deny the truth about herself; and based on the chapters we just read, speaking a painful truth to advance the bond means she can no longer repress it.

It's scary to think what is left for Shallan to "truth" to herself for the next Ideal. Maybe something about her ambiguous attraction to Kaladolin?

i think is tied to the shallan's early chidlhood. she spoke the first ideal before her mother try to kill her, don't think she found the word, but someone teach them to her, how her mother know the proto radiant status of her daughter? why tried to kill her? how his the 'friend' joined shallan's mother that night?

the story of shallan isn't clear, many mystery need to be resolved.

[+robardin he/him]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

We both think Shallan lost the ability to summon her Shardblade until she respoke Oaths, right? We also know that Pattern was not trapped in the Physical Realm in blade form. Is it not possible that the explanation is that she did, in fact, break Oaths 2 and 3 (her truths) while still retaining her first, generic Oath? She was still able to use Stormlight (as we see in during her encounter with Hoid) but she was unable to summon Pattern as a blade nor interact with him. Is there a WoB I am unaware of that states she never broke her oaths?

Considering that her "second go-round" Truths #3 and #4 both involve admitting to herself what she did in terms of killing her mother with a Shardblade and then later, her father, I wonder what her Truth #2 and #3 were from her childhood.

 

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

We both think Shallan lost the ability to summon her Shardblade until she respoke Oaths, right? We also know that Pattern was not trapped in the Physical Realm in blade form. Is it not possible that the explanation is that she did, in fact, break Oaths 2 and 3 (her truths) while still retaining her first, generic Oath? She was still able to use Stormlight (as we see in during her encounter with Hoid) but she was unable to summon Pattern as a blade nor interact with him. Is there a WoB I am unaware of that states she never broke her oaths?

The difference with Kaladin might be that he was not just breaking his second Oath but he was breaking the base ideals of the Knights Radiant as well. Or, perhaps, Windrunner bonds are somewhat different and require strict fidelity at all levels whereas Truthwatchers are more flexible in this regard.

I actually don't know on the first point. We never saw Shallan interact with Pattern below the Oaths. She's a level above Kaladin per this WoB 

Quote

TGANCHERO

How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan is a step higher than Kaladin.

We've seen her speak two truths, so she never interacted with Pattern (other than the voice in Kharbranth) below the third "level" I can think of arguments both ways. That either she was no longer advanced enough for him to form, or that he'd achieved physical form, and can't actually lose that. So... 

On the Oaths though, the reason I think her Oaths were never broken, is we've seen oaths broken before with Kaladin. When Syl was dead, there was no surgebinding, there was no Stormlight. He was normal until he figured out how to progress. I don't think he could have simply said the same oaths again and recommited himself, he had to advance to restore his bond. 

Pattern didn't die. She was able to lightweave, even in her flashback where hoid/wit tricked her into doing it at Middlefest, she retained her abilities. 

[Mulk he/him]

Slow going today for me, it had taken me most of the day yo read to this point.

I don't have a lot to add as mostly what tickled others tickled me and what piqued my interest or concerned me also has been splashed across these responses.  I ran actoss one thing in here talking about Adolin being born under the sign of the nine.

i just picked up WOK to reread it.  In it, Szeth notes the statues of the Heralds and then sees that Shalash is missing do there are only nine.  That brought to mind both the whole sign of the nine thing and wondering why Shalash is not present.  Maybe in the East they only revere nine heralds?  I would therefore theorize the sign of the nine would mean the nine heralds depicted in Kholinar.  Does anyone know why Shalash isn't accorded the same honor in Alethkar?  

[flying_shadow she/her]

Just now, Mulk said:

 Does anyone know why Shalash isn't accorded the same honor in Alethkar?  

Because she's going around and destroying images of herself. Baxil's interlude chapter features her.

[+robardin he/him]

3 minutes ago, Mulk said:

i just picked up WOK to reread it.  In it, Szeth notes the statues of the Heralds and then sees that Shalash is missing do there are only nine.  That brought to mind both the whole sign of the nine thing and wondering why Shalash is not present.  Maybe in the East they only revere nine heralds?  

No, it's that Ash (Shalash) herself is going around defacing, destroying, breaking, or removing images of herself all over Roshar (we've seen this in several scenes, including the one where we first meet Lift).

 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

She's a level above Kaladin per this WoB 

Sorry if I was unclear but I was never against this. I am familiar with the WoB that at the end of WoR Shallan speaks her 4th Oath while Kaladin is at his 3rd.

My discussion was centered around the idea of whether or not Shallan broke her Oaths and what constitutes a Lightweaver breaking their Oaths.

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

On the Oaths though, the reason I think her Oaths were never broken, is we've seen oaths broken before with Kaladin. When Syl was dead, there was no surgebinding, there was no Stormlight. He was normal until he figured out how to progress. I don't think he could have simply said the same oaths again and recommited himself, he had to advance to restore his bond.

 

19 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

The difference with Kaladin might be that he was not just breaking his second Oath but he was breaking the base ideals of the Knights Radiant as well. Or, perhaps, Windrunner bonds are somewhat different and require strict fidelity at all levels whereas Truthwatchers are more flexible in this regard.

I think I will add some of these questions to my list:
"Did Shallan break some of her Oaths when she was younger?"
"Did Shallan retain the ability to summon her Shardblade (e.g. in tWoK while in Kharbranth she thought about doing it a couple of times) or did she only think she could?"
"Are there differences in how a Lightweaver and a Windrunner break their Oaths? If yes, would you mind briefly describing the differences?"
"Follow up: Are there differences in Oathbreaking for each order?"

[kari-no-sugata]

2 hours ago, hypatia said:

I have a serious problem with the Radiant.

Whereas Veil or any other persona  Shallan impersonates don't have altered the Shallan within, the Radiant is seen as a real person apart from herself.

Strictly speaking, this is incorrect. The chapter 13 started with Shallan working on Veil and she clearly thinks that Veil has a different personality. We didn't really see such a thing in WoR in practice but Shallan thought that too at least - for example from chapter 70 in WoR:

Quote

She felt foolish for revealing her skill. Veil would have had words with her. It was too bad Veil wasn’t down here, actually. She would be better at this whole surviving-in-the-wilderness thing.

Also, Brightness Radiant is specifically thought of as a title, not a different person. A calmer more analytical version of Shallan.

 

2 hours ago, hypatia said:

It is a new lie, a way to go back instead of working with the trauma.

It's understandable - for the first truths Patern was a neutral 'psychoanalyst', but within the memory of killing her mother, Pattern is a part of the memory itself.

She will need someone else to speak with, someone , who is able to understand.

It's a new lie but one Shallan is in control of, rather than one that is in control of her.

Sure, Shallan needs help. She's needed that for a long time but there's been nobody there to help. Adolin is certainly helping (apart from unintentionally putting her into a situation where Shallan had to create a new persona), since I'd say one problem Shallan has is a distinct lack of confidence and self-respect - I wouldn't be surprised if she hates herself to some degree (at least, she's frequently critical of herself). It might seem strange for Shallan to do a fist pump when Adolin makes a joke about her ego but for her this is an incredibly rare and precious event.

[Calderis he/him]

@CaptainRyan I understood what you meant and apparently I didn't explain myself well enough.

In my opinion, a broken oath means a dead spren. Game over. There is no "only break some oaths, and your spren will be okay" option. 

Combine that Brandon said this about Shallan. 

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

Not completely sure on this one: He said that at one point Shallan may have said all the oaths for her order (or may have been capable of saying all of the oaths by the end of the book) but has since regressed due to "memory loss/repression." 

Combine that with him having said that if a someone fails to find the words to theirs oath they'll fail to advance and the bond will begin to degrade (really wish I could find that WoB right now) and I think that her repression caused the bond to deteriorate without her ever breaking her Oaths. 

[kari-no-sugata]

11 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

I think I will add some of these questions to my list:

"Did Shallan break some of her Oaths when she was younger?"
"Did Shallan retain the ability to summon her Shardblade (e.g. in tWoK while in Kharbranth she thought about doing it a couple of times) or did she only think she could?"
"Are there differences in how a Lightweaver and a Windrunner break their Oaths? If yes, would you mind briefly describing the differences?"
"Follow up: Are there differences in Oathbreaking for each order?"

It's probably better not to think of "oathbreaking" as a binary thing. The Nahel bond is not either on or off - it can slowly develop over time and it can slowly weaken over time. Likewise, a particular event may or may not constitute "oathbreaking" but the effects it could have on the Nahel bond could be rather different. It seems that the most extreme case (that we've seen) is what the Radiants did during the Recreance. What Kaladin did to Syl during WoR slowly weakened the bond to such an extent that Kaladin could no longer use Stormlight and Syl was sort-of dead. What Shallan did to Pattern is probably somewhere between those two.

Lightweavers speak Truths not Oaths. It seems logical enough that the opposite would weaken the bond - a deep lie that she fully believes to be the truth, for example. It also seems logical that the more lies or the deeper the lies the more she would regress as a Radiant - it doesn't seem to make much sense to talk of her having broken specific oaths. After Shallan killed her mother, her memories of the event became warped and she effectively denied what she had done and denied Pattern. Whatever you want to call it, that's the event that strongly weakened the bond.

Regarding her Shardblade, I'm pretty sure she could have summoned it in tWoK at any time if she had really wanted to.

[Borio Singaldi he/him]

7 hours ago, Agent34 said:

Tavernform 

Precisely! Now we know who they bond with. Existence of alespren confirmed.

 

(And suddenly, all fledgeling fanfic eroticas relating to Syl cheering on Kaladin in bed were suddenly halted by Pattern poking into all of them and shouting "NO MATING!")

 

Seriously, the way I feel about what the parshmen have become instead of monstrous Voidbringers is like (Mistborn BoM Spoilers)

Spoiler

how Marasi feels when Steris finally expresses herself for who she really is on the inside.

I feel like I so shallowly judged them and that I should be ready next time this happens not to be so judgemental about characters.

 

 

...By the way, do we know for sure that the yellow streak of light was a spren? I mean, it probably is, but I'm just saying...

[Aleksiel]

Some related WoB about Shallan and Pattern (spoiler for length): 

 

Spoiler

Quote

 

QUESTION

Where was Pattern before Shallan drew him?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He was around. The bonding process had started when Shallan was young but then she pushed him away and he withdrew mostly to the Cognitive Realm until the bonding was started again and she pulled him fully into the Physical when she drew him.

 

 

 

Quote

 

KYTHIS

How did Pattern actually become a Shardblade even though he hadn't been fully pulled into the Physical Realm?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He was pulled into the Physical Realm before, when Shallan was younger. And she almost broke her bond. Q: He didn't go mad though. A: She didn't completely break the bond. She didn't reject him completely. But it was dangerous for a while.

 

 

 

Quote

 

HAVOC

In WoK, Shallan is being chased by Cryptics. She begins to summon her Shardblade, stops and then Soulcasts for the first time. We know from WoR that it's her bond to Pattern, her Shardblade that allows her to Soulcast. So my question is, if Shallan had not begun to summon her Blade, would she have been able to Soulcast?

BRANDON SANDERSON

She would not have been able to. No one has ever asked me that before.

 

 

 

 

So she didn't break the bond, but she couldn't have used her abilities without starting to summon Pattern, which is very interesting. 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aleksiel

[CaptainRyan he/him]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

In my opinion, a broken oath means a dead spren. Game over. There is no "only break some oaths, and your spren will be okay" option.

I completely agree that this fits with what we saw of Kaladin. The thing is, each Order has different ways of speaking/committing to Oaths so I am simply wondering if, perhaps, Cryptics would respond to broken Oaths differently. Especially as it seems the Windrunner Oaths are sort a linear progression whereas Lightweavers' Oaths are less defined.

An example of some differences; We saw with Kaladin that he could see/interact with Syl, even if only occasionally, right up until the very end when his bond broke. Shallan, as far as we can tell, had no real interaction with Pattern for years; one might say he was "dead". 

[Random thought: Pattern said today that if Shallan wanted should could kill him and get a new Cryptic. Are we 100% sure Pattern is the first Cryptic Shallan has bonded with? It would be kind of interesting if she killed her first one and Pattern came second eh?]

13 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Combine that with him having said that if a someone fails to find the words to theirs oath they'll fail to advance and the bond will begin to degrade (really wish I could find that WoB right now) and I think that her repression caused the bond to deteriorate without her ever breaking her Oaths.

No worries, I have seen that WoB too and remember it in a similar fashion. We did receive some new information today about how a Lightweaver cannot simply ignore a Truth once they have spoken it. I wonder what Truths Shallan spoke when she was younger and if they are still firmly rooted in her mind. If they are not then that might be evidence that she "broke" those Oaths (Truths) and has since replaced them with newly spoken Truths. 

 

[edit] @Aleksiel's WoBs have "broken" my theory. Alas. 

Thanks for the WoB's Aleksiel!  

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

So she didn't break the bond, but she couldn't have used her abilities without starting to summon Pattern, which is very interesting. 

Makes sense to me. By starting to summon the blade, she acknowledged the bond existed instead of suppressing it. 

[Aleksiel]

2 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

I completely agree that this fits with what we saw of Kaladin. The thing is, each Order has different ways of speaking/committing to Oaths so I am simply wondering if, perhaps, Cryptics would respond to broken Oaths differently. Especially as it seems the Windrunner Oaths are sort a linear progression whereas Lightweavers' Oaths are less defined.

An example of some differences; We saw with Kaladin that he could see/interact with Syl, even if only occasionally, right up until the very end when his bond broke. Shallan, as far as we can tell, had no real interaction with Pattern for years; one might say he was "dead". 

[Random thought: Pattern said today that if Shallan wanted should could kill him and get a new Cryptic. Are we 100% sure Pattern is the first Cryptic Shallan has bonded with? It would be kind of interesting if she killed her first one and Pattern came second eh?]

No worries, I have seen that WoB too and remember it in a similar fashion. We did receive some new information today about how a Lightweaver cannot simply ignore a Truth once they have spoken it. I wonder what Truths Shallan spoke when she was younger and if they are still firmly rooted in her mind. If they are not then that might be evidence that she "broke" those Oaths (Truths) and has since replaced them with newly spoken Truths. 

 

[edit] @Aleksiel's WoBs have "broken" my theory. Alas. 

Thanks for the WoB's Aleksiel!  

It was.. um, my pleasure to break your theory 

I too wonder about what Pattern said, could she even bond a new Cryptic if she killed Pattern? And why the storm would the Cryptics insist on sending another to the same person? Pattern isn't good with lies and exaggeration.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

56 minutes ago, Mulk said:

Slow going today for me, it had taken me most of the day yo read to this point.

I don't have a lot to add as mostly what tickled others tickled me and what piqued my interest or concerned me also has been splashed across these responses.  I ran actoss one thing in here talking about Adolin being born under the sign of the nine.

i just picked up WOK to reread it.  In it, Szeth notes the statues of the Heralds and then sees that Shalash is missing do there are only nine.  That brought to mind both the whole sign of the nine thing and wondering why Shalash is not present.  Maybe in the East they only revere nine heralds?  I would therefore theorize the sign of the nine would mean the nine heralds depicted in Kholinar.  Does anyone know why Shalash isn't accorded the same honor in Alethkar?  

Shalash broke her own statue in Alethkar, Gavilar had it on reparations. 

Whenever the nine mentions come up they can be taken as the 9 unmade, or what I tend to do, as the 9 heralds to abandon their posts.

Also, Ash's eyes were mentioned earlier. They are said to be light violet and very beautiful. May be a curse of shock when something is very beautiful and you are impressed in a good way. 

[Aleksiel]

17 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Makes sense to me. By starting to summon the blade, she acknowledged the bond existed instead of suppressing it. 

It could be that. We also know dead spren become a little alive when summoned, so after a fashion Pattern could have become a little self aware thus granting Shallan access to her surges. WoB doesn't clarify if it was the acknowledgement he exists or the specific act of attempted summoning.

[Guest]

This were my favorite chapters since the beginning, well excluding chapter 16. I literally feel in love with Shallan and Adolin as a couple  Couldn't they get any more adorable and sweet when they both thing they are the ones who will screw it up? When they hold hand and solemnly swear they will NOT screw it up? Oh kiddos, my heart felt all warm and fuzzy when I read this.

So here is my review as I have, of course, not have the time to read all the chapters.

Chapter 13

My commentary for this chapter could be resume by a simple: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah so cute. Adolin bringing food to Shallan so they can eat together was beyond adorable, especially considering he catches her barely naked which ensue a rather comical scene where neither knows how to behave. Priceless.

I absolutely love how Pattern was asked to be the chaperon and his inappropriate comments on mating and copulating were downright hilarious.

I love the additional insights on Adolin's character. It was fabulous. So Adolin is not as mindless and simple-minded as many have initially thought: he brought books to Shallan, books he actually liked "reading", books he found "interesting" on a topic he noticed Shallan seemed not very familiar with. Can he get even more thoughtful? Also, the idea Navani and Jasnah were responsible for his tutoring and his upbringing was really intriguing. What was Shshshsh doing? 

Adolin has a birth mark on the back of his left tight and this does not become an important plot point, I will sue Brandon  He's also born under the sign of nine, whatever this may mean.

Those are absolutely adorable. I thought Shallan's interest in Adolin was rather obvious: I felt there was more between them then mere physical attraction: they genuinely enjoy each other's company. She also told him about being a Lightweaver, she didn't lie to him about this. They both agree on secrets... Oh Shallan thinks Adolin will never going to be able to deal with hers and Adolin probably thinks the same. My heart melt.

And Patter does NOT hate Adolin. I love Pattern and forever too expressive and gibbery Adolin.

Chapter 14

I do not have much to say about this chapter apart from finding out the "Voidbringers" appear to be the former Parshendi slaves. I am curious to see where this is going but I'll admit my level of investment within the Kaladin story arc is considerably lesser than my investment within the whole Urithiru story arc. I did not mind the chapter was short as I hoped to go back to my favorite location soon.

Chapter 15

So Adolin and Shallan are investigating the murder... Adolin is honorable enough not to want to pin his murder onto someone else. He tells Shallan it probably was two killers and Shallan thinks he is making a scientific mistake... Oh Shallan, if only you knew.

Adolin training Shallan to use her Pattern Blade was amazing. Here is a guy who just found out his entire set of relatives are mystical Radiants having fabulous powers, here is a guy who has to deal with his betrothed being magical and more important than him and what does he do? He transcends male/female traditional roles and says if Shallan is to carry a weapon, then she needs to learn how to use it. Anyone who claimed Adolin was too narrow-minded to accept Shallan might rank higher than him was wrong: maybe it gets to him, in a small way, but so far he has done an admirable job of supporting the Radiants as best as he could. How many men would gladly teach their wife to be how to sword fight?

I love seeing Shallan glimpse passionate Adolin speaking grandly about dueling. I recalled mentioning, at some point, how there was an artistic vibe to Adolin's love of dueling and I was so pleased Shallan caught on it or, at the very least, thought the way he talks about Sharblades is akin to the way she talks about her art. She finds they have this in common: passion.

Adolin speech on Shardblades was really interesting, how he always knew his Blade was alive and how he naively thinks all duelists behave the same.

I did not read anything negative in Shallan needing to embrace another personality to overcome her difficulties with yielding Pattern Blade. I sincerely believe Adolin's love of Blades and teachings will help her overcome it.

In the end I will merely say: Shallan and Adolin are adorable  I love those chapters and I love how Shallan's story arc is picking up.

Edit: Apparently, I do not know how to count 

Edited September 27, 2017 by maxal

[Bernem he/him]

6 minutes ago, maxal said:

Also, the idea Navani and Jasnah were responsible for his tutoring and his upbringing was really intriguing. What was Shshshsh doing?

Quote

From chapter 13:

Jasnah and Aunt Navani made very certain that my youth was filled with interminable periods spent listening to ardents lecture me on politics and trade.

@maxal I also was wondering where his mom was in his tutoring. Perhaps he is just talking about the time after she died. Or maybe she just wasn't very engaged in his learning. Navani did say she wasn't very clever, and Navani and Jasnah seem like they would jump at the opportunity to make sure their relatives are "properly educated".
 

 

[kari-no-sugata]

Hi @maxal I thought you'd enjoy the Shallan chapters and am glad you did. Very cute and I agree with all the points you listed. I'm really glad that Adolin is bringing much needed joy into Shallan's life, as well as confidence, knowledge and skills.

[OathKeeper]

Ok, time to speculate wildly about what Shallan's first two truths were. There is a clear progression so they probably didn't have to be as dramatic as 3 and 4, but still powerful enough to justify the bond. Also it would fit for the truths to have to be about herself.

Might #1 have simply been "I'm a surgebinder" ? After noticing proto status in herself? Maybe Heloran observed her doing  proto things and told her what it means, and she had to accept it.

I'm stuck on #2 though. Perhaps something about her potential, like "I'm dangerous." That would fit the bill for a truth she seems to have suppressed. Unless it's another truth about something she had done, but I can't imagine what pre-matricide Shallan was like at all.

[Ashdelenn]

9 hours ago, Kalinovsky said:

Multiple

 

9 hours ago, Kalinovsky said:

It seems like she has Multiple Personality Disorder(is that what it's called?). 

Yeah and having traumatic childhood experiences is a common trait with that disorder.

[Musica she/her]

Do we know what broke Shallan originally and enabled her to become a Radiant? I can't remember.. I don't believe we found out in her flashbacks, as she already Bonded Pattern (or a different Cryptic perhaps?) before her mother ever tried to kill her. 

I wonder what other Truths she will have to speak and whether we will learn through them what was the event that first lured the Cryptics to her..

 

Also, why and how would the spren send a new spren to a Radiant who broke his or her Oaths?? And is it a unique trait of the Lightweavers, or can it happen with Radiants of any order? And if/when it happens, can a Radiant of one Order become of another? Can a Lightweaver become, for example, an Elsecaller?

 

One last thing- can you remind me why Syl told Kaladin she remembered him from his childhood and knew his parents even though it was, supposedly, Tien's death that acted as the catalyst that led to his Radiancy?