[OB] Oathbringer Chapter 1-3

[Nathrangking]

Perhaps not exclusive,but the fact that there are important colors is a point to be considered as we learn more about Odium, voidspren....

[Knotai]

2 hours ago, vividox said:

So, did anyone else get the sense that the writing quality wasn't up to standard? I got the feeling I was reading a Rithmatist/Reckoners book, not a Stormlight book. Small sample size, obviously. 

I definitely had issues with a couple passages, but I felt that it started to ease into a normal standard midway through the second chapter. The description of the abilities of each person who'd gained powers recently seemed a little awkward to me, but maybe that's just me disliking authors dropping facts in readers' faces.

I'm definitely intrigued by May as a possible Radiant/secret society member--I think she'll return, as Brandon doesn't usually name-drop characters and leave them in Jordanian fashion. Also, it's probably nothing, but her name seems surprisingly un-Alethi, especially for a daughter of a highprince.

 

[Nathrangking]

8 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Did anyone else raise an eyebrow at the part one, and chapter one naming dichotomy?

Part One: United

Dalinar * Shallan * Kaladin * Adolin

Chapter 1
Broken and Divided

It earned both a raised eyebrow and a chuckle at the irony.

 

[Andy92]

2 hours ago, axcellence said:

Well, given Dalinar's vision at the end of the last book and the golden light, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the captured shadow of Gavilar.

Now I like that idea. Seems crazy enough to actually be a thing lol. 

[Necessary Eagle]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet= the Stormfather calls Dalinar "Son of Honor". Is this title used anywhere in his original visions? Anyway, that sheds light on the Sons of Honor- Gavilar must have gotten the idea for the name from a vision.

[Nathrangking]

Well he is not going to call by his given name. He uses the term child of honor with Kaladin so @asterion137 is on the right track. I guess he may have upgraded Dalinar to be nice.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Nathrangking

[asterion137]

6 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet= the Stormfather calls Dalinar "Son of Honor". Is this title used anywhere in his original visions? Anyway, that sheds light on the Sons of Honor- Gavilar must have gotten the idea for the name from a vision.

I assume that's what the Stormfather calls Radiants because he called Kaladin that in a vision too.

[Frostlander]

I've been reading Mistborn annotations out of impatience, and there's been a lot in them about plotting in a series. I think the odd feeling we're getting from the writing is a combination of a bunch of recap for people who don't think about these books as much and tying up some loose ends.  

WoR also zoomed out at the end from squabbling factions of Alethkar and the war on the Shattered Plains to a supernatural event that will involve the entire continent and take the story in lots of new directions. I'm actually ok with the awkwardness if it means we're moving into the next phase of the 5-book arc/series. And the fact that he felt the need to take care of things so early suggests that there's a lot of new stuff coming up soon. 

[Steeldancer]

I have some questions about Dalinars ability to go through the visions. Specifically I want him to go back to the ones featuring the Radiants more, and explore those. And how come he is able to do that? It feels weird. If he had bonded the nightwatcher (theoretically) would a similar thing have happened to him? So many questions, so few answers. 

[Nathrangking]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

I have some questions about Dalinars ability to go through the visions. Specifically I want him to go back to the ones featuring the Radiants more, and explore those. And how come he is able to do that? It feels weird. If he had bonded the nightwatcher (theoretically) would a similar thing have happened to him? So many questions, so few answers. 

I think that this would be a specific perk of the Stormfather due to the fact that he sends the visions this in turn I would imagine gives Dalinar access to them at will as substitute for shards or thereabouts.

 

[maxal]

Alright, I am back from work, being locked outside, summoning my inner spiderman to climb the brick wall and sleek through a window I managed to opened, just so I can make a better more detailed resume.

Chapter 1

The vision. I have seen many people theorizing Dalinar seeing something familiar within the eyes of Odium's champion meant he recognize the individual. Obviously, it had Reddit and Tor.com think it probably was Adolin or maybe Renarin. I personally wonder how one of his sons could even be within a vision Honor made centuries ago, before he died. Sure, the fact we see destroyed Kholinar seem to give the impression we are set in the future, but we aren't. It is explicitly stated the ruined city merely is a background Honor made to accompany his monologue and Kholinar has been around for millennia. 

Dalinar is not experiencing a vision of the future nor is he seeing one of his sons turning into Odium's champion, he is seeing what Honor left for him to see. Honor would not know of neither Adolin nor Renarin, so how could the "familiarity" be something linked to anyone Dalinar currently know? An ancestor maybe? Also, if Odium's champion or if the Unmade is somehow influencing the vision (I have no idea if this is even possible), then it can't be neither Adolin nor Renarin: unless one of them actually currently is this champion which is doubtful in the case of Renarin and impossible in the case of Adolin.

I thus really do not see valid reasons to think this is foreshadowing nor implying either of Dalinar's sons are to become Odium's champion. I really do not understand how the mechanic of the visions ought to enable Dalinar to see such things as the one controlling the visions died a long time ago. They are just a recording.

I liked the insights on Navani... A stubborn boulder having broken conventions since their youths, refusing to be secretive while being impatient with things she considers foolish. Well, we definitely saw this side of her personality when she scolded Adolin for his pre-dueling ritual.

The ending was perfect: Sadeas is dead. I was hoping this wouldn't linger.

Chapter 2

Oh surprise, Adolin. I honestly did not expect him here: I expected chapter 1 to be Kaladin. According to the chart Brandon published a while back, the only characters having viewpoints within Part 1 were Dalinar, Kaladin and Shallan: this was supposed to be the final plan, so what happened? Not I am going to complain, but it would have saved me months of agony had I known Brandon actually planned to give some screen time to Adolin prior to part 5.

This being said, I was happy to get a glimpse on how he is coping. So far, so good, he's holding up... by refusing to have one moment alone where he would actually have the time to think. He is avoiding the issue, he is ignoring the issue. He is escaping. He is trying to pretend it never happened. He is repressing. Mine, mine, doesn't it sound familiar to anyone? Sure, it isn't exactly the same Adolin, instead of downright forgetting, is burying himself into work, micro-managing the unloading of wagons which is likely going to make him slightly less popular, but it does bear some reminiscence with Shallan. Avoidance. It was... interesting. I expected Adolin to eventually cope in over-working, but I expected him to have the behavior after he admits his guilt, not before. 

I also noted how Brandon made sure to remind the readers Adolin injured his wrist. Of course, I had not forgotten, but the fact he wrote it in makes me think it will play a role. Adolin cannot spar (which has probably been his number one stress relief method), he cannot fight, so what if he is forced to?

Dalinar mentions the stab Sadeas received in a common wound, on the battlefield thus linking the murder to a soldier. I think this observation will be important.

The first reactions were hilarious, from Teft suggesting he tripped onto his own knife, to Paloma "one problem's solved" everyone seem glad the old weasel is dead, even Dalinar doesn't seem shocked though he admits it will look bad on his reputation. As we all expected, people are likely to blame Dalinar, thinking he ordered it, but nobody seems to think it an insurmountable obstacle, that is until they find it's Adolin who did it. Obviously, they are guessing whomever killed Sadeas took Oathbringer and seeing how Sadeas's soldiers managed to lose him for a full day within the tunnels, everyone is likely to think the culprit just disappeared for the time needed to bond the Shardblade. This is what I would assume were I they.

So Roion had a son? So one rush for one princedom is being easily set down: and I thought it would be Jakamav. Oh well.

Adolin is getting duties other than scouting: managing the armies from all Highprinces. Alone time will have to wait.

Renarin is not happy at not getting a task and woefully less happy his father orders him to train. I took note of this moment because I just don't like Renarin's attitude. I never liked it, but he is not helping himself here. You are a Radiant, you whined for ages on how useless you were and now you refuse to explore the powers you have? Really?

I find it also sad naive Dalinar still persists on thinking Sadeas could have been a part of it: he really isn't going to let it go...

Chapter 3

Ah young arrogant Dalinar. I have commented on him, so here I'll merely say: he was clueless. He does not know why he is attacking and the people he is killing do not understand why. I do not need more justification as to how wrong Gavilar has been with his war.

Gavilar's armies were also set on looting and raping women: Dalinar stopped them. A glimmer of the man he will eventually be: a monster, but not a rapist. There is that.

 

[Metalrift]

41 minutes ago, maxal said:

Renarin is not happy at not getting a task and woefully less happy his father orders him to train. I took note of this moment because I just don't like Renarin's attitude. I never liked it, but he is not helping himself here. You are a Radiant, you whined for ages on how useless you were and now you refuse to explore the powers you have? Really?

I didn't see Renarin as being unhappy at not getting a task, but rather that he is unsure of himself and severely lacking in confidence. He doesn't refuse to learn to use his powers, but he doesn't think he's capable of learning, especially not by himself.

[narkis]

4 hours ago, vividox said:

So, did anyone else get the sense that the writing quality wasn't up to standard? I got the feeling I was reading a Rithmatist/Reckoners book, not a Stormlight book. Small sample size, obviously. 

Yes! I'm a longtime lurker on this site and made an account just to ask this question because it was bugging me so much.  Beyond the sub-par (and exposition-heavy) writing, what really struck me was how out of character Dalinar seemed.  We've spent two entire books with a character whose primary personality trait was reservedness and restraint due to his deeply rooted desire for power and his attempt to not give in to these instincts.  Suddenly he's not only confident in his ability to become a leader/ruler, but views as his main goal the unification of Roshar, presumably with him as the de facto leader?  I get the fact that the battle changed a lot and the stakes are now raised, but it's been a mere few days.  I would have, at the very least, expected to see some sort of inner conflict over his choices.  A part of me feels like it's deliberate, though, and that bonding the Stormfather somehow changed Dalinar.  

[maxal]

13 minutes ago, Metalrift said:

I didn't see Renarin as being unhappy at not getting a task, but rather that he is unsure of himself and severely lacking in confidence. He doesn't refuse to learn to use his powers, but he doesn't think he's capable of learning, especially not by himself.

I am annoyed by his attitude. While he complains he is useless, it seem as if he is always looking for an excuse to justify to keep on saying he is useless. 

[+Spicker]

32 minutes ago, narkis said:

  I would have, at the very least, expected to see some sort of inner conflict over his choices.  A part of me feels like it's deliberate, though, and that bonding the Stormfather somehow changed Dalinar.  

I definitely agree that bonding the Stormfather has changed his hesitance with taking the lead, and I am glad for it. He spent the last two books conflicted about taking charge and not stepping on the King's toes. After the events that happen at the end of WoR, it is clear that Dalinar will not be able to unite all of Roshar under Elhokar's rule. I have seen enough of his inner conflict in the previous books, so I don't miss it. Unfortunately, I have a feeling this may come up again when the King returns on the scene.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Spicker

[Jaconis]

20 minutes ago, narkis said:

Yes! I'm a longtime lurker on this site and made an account just to ask this question because it was bugging me so much.  Beyond the sub-par (and exposition-heavy) writing, what really struck me was how out of character Dalinar seemed.  We've spent two entire books with a character whose primary personality trait was reservedness and restraint due to his deeply rooted desire for power and his attempt to not give in to these instincts.  Suddenly he's not only confident in his ability to become a leader/ruler, but views as his main goal the unification of Roshar, presumably with him as the de facto leader?  I get the fact that the battle changed a lot and the stakes are now raised, but it's been a mere few days.  I would have, at the very least, expected to see some sort of inner conflict over his choices.  A part of me feels like it's deliberate, though, and that bonding the Stormfather somehow changed Dalinar.  

I disagree on both the writing being any worse than previous works, and on Dalinar acting any differently.

Firstly, the heavy exposition is something that happened at the beginning of WoR too, which I find to not be uncommon for sequels in general, and not just from Sanderson. It's frustrating for the more in depth fans like us who don't need reminding of previous events or the state of the world, but for the people who read WoR once - and three years ago at that - it's necessary. 

Secondly, Dalinar has more or less ignored Elhokar's rule since the end of WoK/beginning of WoR. Kaladin mentions it several times throughout WoR. Ever since he made himself Highprince of War, he has pretty much been king, and everyone, including the other highprinces, have acted that way (at the meeting after the assassin's first attempt on his life, for instance). 

[Nathrangking]

26 minutes ago, narkis said:

Yes! I'm a longtime lurker on this site and made an account just to ask this question because it was bugging me so much.  Beyond the sub-par (and exposition-heavy) writing, what really struck me was how out of character Dalinar seemed.  We've spent two entire books with a character whose primary personality trait was reservedness and restraint due to his deeply rooted desire for power and his attempt to not give in to these instincts.  Suddenly he's not only confident in his ability to become a leader/ruler, but views as his main goal the unification of Roshar, presumably with him as the de facto leader?  I get the fact that the battle changed a lot and the stakes are now raised, but it's been a mere few days.  I would have, at the very least, expected to see some sort of inner conflict over his choices.  A part of me feels like it's deliberate, though, and that bonding the Stormfather somehow changed Dalinar.  

I do not think that the Stormfather would not need to influence him. He was the Blackthorn. He was a natural born leader who restrained himself, but now he is not holding back. He bound the Stormfather to his will and united Alethkar. He was capable but hesitant, that vanished when the stakes shot through the roof.

13 minutes ago, maxal said:

I am annoyed by his attitude. While he complains he is useless, it seem as if he is always looking for an excuse to justify to keep on saying he is useless. 

Yes it is annoying though I think that it became so entrenched in him that even if he wanted to he would find it a tall order to change his ways.

[maxal]

11 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Yes it is annoying though I think that it became so entrenched in him that even if he wanted to he would find it a tall order to change his ways.

Agree, but it does not help making his character more sympathetic to me as a reader. If only he were to try before saying he can't, I'd have some sympathy for him, but to say he can't? To not even want to try? To being named a Radiant and not want to be bothered by his powers? This is odd. We'll see where it goes, but I hope for better development for his character. I almost dread the Shallan/Renarin training sessions which are likely to soon be featured.

[Asrael]

11 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Yes it is annoying though I think that it became so entrenched in him that even if he wanted to he would find it a tall order to change his ways.

As annoying as it might be, its also... believable and realistic. Something people do all the time.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, maxal said:

Gavilar's armies were also set on looting and raping women: Dalinar stopped them. A glimmer of the man he will eventually be: a monster, but not a rapist. There is that.

He stopped them for a completely selfish reason. There's no positive in that. If the new conscripted had ask to take part in the debauchery he would have let him. He was paying a price and nothing more. 

There's no redeeming qualities shown in young Dalinar. The Thrill made him a sociopath. 

[Bcknight2]

Quote

From CH 2:

“Other Radiants will be coming to us, and you two will need to lead them. The knights were once our greatest weapon against the Voidbringers. They will need to be so again.”

I really hope Dalinar is just sayin "you two" because Kaladin is currently on a mad dash to Hearthstone. Because if this is an indication that Dalinar is expecting Renarin and Shallan to outrank Kaladin because they were born lighteyed... there will be problems

Edited August 31, 2017 by Bcknight2

[sooyangi]

42 minutes ago, maxal said:

I am annoyed by his attitude. While he complains he is useless, it seem as if he is always looking for an excuse to justify to keep on saying he is useless. 

I can see that! I have a slightly different opinion though. Renarin was always told he was "sick" and people basically viewed him weak and unfit to be a fighter, which in his eyes makes him feel and think others feel as if he's useless. If I were to grow up that way, I wouldn't feel confident either. And personally, as someone who doesn't feel confident in her abilities, it's really easy to doubt yourself than it is to believe in yourself. I also don't think he ever bothered with his powers because he probably didn't even consider the possibility that he could be a radiant (in-training). 

Which makes me excited to see his character growth! Especially now that he has a purpose.

Edited August 30, 2017 by sooyangi

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Bcknight2 said:

I really hope Dalinar is just sayin "you two" because Kaladin is currently on a mad dash to Hearthstone. Because if this is an indication that Dalinar is expecting Renarin and Shallan to out rank Kaladin because they were born lighteyed... there will be problems

I'm pretty sure he meant lead their respective orders. Him wanting Renarin to train with his abilities implies he wants he to be able to teach others. That's order specific. 

[frozndevl]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

He stopped them for a completely selfish reason. There's no positive in that. If the new conscripted had ask to take part in the debauchery he would have let him. He was paying a price and nothing more. 

There's no redeeming qualities shown in young Dalinar. The Thrill made him a sociopath. 

Exactly, the Thrill made him a sociopath, not some inherent flaw in his person. 

[frozndevl]

So here's another thought about the quality of the writing... We all enjoy Brandon's writing, else we wouldn't be here. What stuck me is that in the flashback, Dalinar didn't think and he was wildly successful in his role as blackthorn. Perhaps using similar tone is being used to present day Dalinar in a similarly confident light where he just knows what to do and doesnt need to be reserved to accomplish his tasks. 

 

Thinking about it, the Adolin section didn't seem out place, just Dalinars pov.