Why did TLR suppress technology?

[AnonymousFan]

Just a question I couldn't think of the answer for while reading. Sorry if this has been posted but I couldn't find an answer. The closest thing I could think of is that he didn't want anyone to challenge him or a ska uprising. But that didn't make much sense because he was basically a god in a way.

Anyone want to help explain?

[Calderis he/him]

Technology requires change. Change invites instability, and instability threatens his rule, which in his eyes threatens the release of Ruin. 

Technological advance also allows for advances in understanding of both sciences and the Metallic Arts, which undermines his standing as a God, which leads back into the first point. 

[Weltall]

Yeah, Rashek's plan was 'create a stable empire that will last long enough for the Well of Ascension to refill, rinse and repeat' and selectively supressing technology helped him in that goal by making it harder for anyone to challenge him. We're told they had gunpowder beforehand and the logic of supressing it is obvious: Guns don't require as much training to be spectacularly lethal as bows do (making it easier for a rebellion to mount a serious threat) and bullets are harder to deflect with Allomancy than arrows (increasing the risk to Rashek, if only slightly) so that just had to go. And they also had steam technology and were getting close to an era of locomotives. Making long-distance travel harder (which naturally affects communication as well) worked to Rashek's benefit also.

However, he also encouraged useful technologies that didn't pose any threat to his reign like pocketwatches and of course his backup plan in the event that Plan A failed required canning technology to create the survival caches so he ensured that developed in time for the next cycle.

[AnonymousFan]

Now that you two explain it like that it makes a ton of sense, thanks guys. On another thought, what's the most technologically developed planet in the cosmere?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Sel, Taldain and Scadrial. Taldain would be ahead, but Bavadin seems to have intervened at some point. Sel may have developed along different lines than Scadrial though. The Scadrians are rapidly catching up.

[Nathrangking he/him]

Possibly first of the sun Brandon states in the postscript for the sixth of dusk that it is the farthest forward chronologically.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

2 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Possibly first of the sun Brandon states in the postscript for the sixth of dusk that it is the farthest forward chronologically.

Well, that planet, like we see in SotD, isn't that technologically advanced, so they're probably not the most advanced planet ever.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

The One's Above, on the other hand, are a different story. But one of the major theories has them as Scadrians...

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

Possibly first of the sun Brandon states in the postscript for the sixth of dusk that it is the farthest forward chronologically.

The story takes place the farthest forward in the time line. Chronologically. 

The visitors in that story are a space faring race far beyond the technology of that word, so SotD is definitely behind other worlds. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

We know for a fact that Scadrial is extremely good tech-wise. But we haven't heard from or about Sel during the Era 2/Stormlight, so its hard to tell how good they are now. The same thing applies for Taldain.

[Weltall]

The cosmere's timeline makes pinning down 'who's the most advanced' a tricky proposition since we only know of a couple stories that happen close enough together to make a direct comparison, Stormlight Archive and Era 2 Mistborn, with Warbreaker happening somewhere close as well.

Taldain is the first world we've seen chronologically to develop gunpowder but we don't know how they've developed since White Sand, as Autonomy has interdicted the planet. It doesn't mean that progress has been stagnant (it seems more like Autonomy wants to keep outsiders from influencing the planet's development, than stopping it entirely) but it does mean we don't have a good idea what's been going on there for a long span of time. We have a WoB that they are the most developed planet despite this interdiction so they've apparently continued, just without any outside influences. Thanks to @Pagerunner for the Reddit WoB list (link)

For Scadrial we have Khriss' observation in Arcanum Unbounded (written at some point prior to the events of Sixth of the Dusk) that were it not for Rashek's thousand year interference, Scadrial would probably have surpassed every other world in the cosmere in development, Silverlight included. That's a pretty impressive statement. And we have WoB that they're continuing to develop at a relatively fast pace because the world has been and still is relatively safe for worldhoppers, there are cosmere-aware individuals pushing for development behind the scenes (like the Set) and Harmony is actively interested in the technological progress of the world. Certainly they're the most advanced world whose progress we can quantify.

Elantris had very advanced applications of AonDor before the Reod but we don't know what their development looks like closer to the 'present' era of Mistborn 2/Stormlight, or Sel as a whole (and there's at least one major power on the planet we know nothing about). We'll probably find out soon though as Brandon has indicated that the Elantris sequels need to come out before we can get Era 3 Mistborn.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Weltall
Era 3 is the one that needs Elantris sequels, not 2, oops

[nagol99 he/him]

1 hour ago, Weltall said:

We'll probably find out soon though as Brandon has indicated that the Elantris sequels need to come out before we can get Era 2 Mistborn.

not sure where i read this....maybe from Brandon's "State of Sanderson 2016"....and the Wiki

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Mistborn_(series)

Mistborn Era 1: Final Empire Series(first 3 books), feudalism/Renaissance technology

Mistborn Era 1.5 2: Wax/Wayne Series (4 books) pre-industrial/Wild West technology

Mistborn Era 2.5: Brandon has also said that he may do some more stories before the second third trilogy, set in a 1940's society

Mistborn Era 3: early computer age with 1980s technology

Mistborn Era 4: The third trilogy is going to be a space-opera with Allomancy powered faster-than-light technology.

Edited August 7, 2017 by nagol99

[Weltall]

40 minutes ago, nagol99 said:

not sure where i read this....maybe from Brandon's "State of Sanderson 2016"....and the Wiki

Yeah, the Eras all line up with what Brandon has been telling us ever since he settled on that system instead of the older division by trilogies, with Wax and Wayne being a sort of weird outlier. The '2.5' one was mentioned in the 2014 State of the Sanderson as a 'maybe' project and he's also said that he might do some 'near future' works set between Eras 3 and 4 (here).

Also, I corrected my goof where I mistyped Era 2 when I meant Era 3 as the ones that can't come out until the Elantris sequels are finished " because of behind-the-scenes Cosmere bits" to use Brandon's exact words.

[redbishop]

Crawling out of the shadows of anonymous reading...

I may be a little late to the party, but onto the original subject, might it me that Rashek was influenced subconsciously by Preservation's Intent from his time in the Well?

A lot of tech involves change, which Preservation has been accused of opposing to the point of stagnation.  Other things like gunpowder are explosive, which leads to ruination and destruction.  No one has, to this day, blown something up to preserve it.

What technology did he encourage?  Canning.  Which is a form of food preservation.  I read that as a tip-of-the-hat from Brandon.

[cometaryorbit]

On 8/11/2017 at 11:29 AM, redbishop said:

Crawling out of the shadows of anonymous reading...

I may be a little late to the party, but onto the original subject, might it me that Rashek was influenced subconsciously by Preservation's Intent from his time in the Well?

IMO, this is pretty clearly the case.

Definitely he was influenced during his time in the Well - that's discussed in the HoA Epigraphs, Ch 17

Quote

It also shows his mind-set during his time with Preservation's power. Under its influence he was obviously in a protective mode. Instead of leveling the ashmounts and trying to push the planet back into place, he was reactive, working furiously to fix problems that he himself had caused.

The Ch 29 epigraph also says 

Quote

 

The Lord Ruler didn't just forbid certain technologies, he suppressed technological advancement completely. It seems odd now that during the entirety of his thousand-year reign, very little progress was made. Farming techniques, architectural methods—even fashion remained remarkably stable during the Lord Ruler's reign.

He constructed his perfect empire, then tried to make it stay that way. For the most part, he was successful. Pocket watches—another Khlenni appropriation—that were made in the tenth century of the empire were nearly identical to those made during the first. Everything stayed the same.

Until it all collapsed, of course.

 

It's not explicitly said that this was Preservation's influence, but it seems very suggestive at the very least.

Also, in Secret History, Preservation's shadow says of TLR's use of the Well

"It was spectacular to watch! And now, he is Preserved. I am glad you didn't find a way to destroy him. Everyone else passes, but not him. It's wonderful." (he also calls TLR "unchanging" and says "Better to have stability. Yes. A constant leader.")

 

--

TLR was probably more interested in protecting his empire from the effects of advanced technology, rather than himself personally, but he would actually have been somewhat vulnerable if technology got too far - I don't think Gold Compounding would save him from an aluminum bullet fired from a sniper rifle into the right part of his brain, or from an explosion large enough to vaporize his body and his metalminds.

 

EDIT: TLR would actually have been somewhat more vulnerable to big explosions than another Gold Compounder, since he was dependent on his atiumminds. Even if he personally could heal from it, anything that completely separated his atiumminds from his body would kill him. Miles Hundredlives could survive being cut in two, but TLR only could if the cut left his atiumminds attached to the largest piece of him (which would be the piece that healed). Being blown to pieces would be almost certainly fatal.

Edited August 14, 2017 by cometaryorbit
atiumminds vulnerability

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:41 AM, cometaryorbit said:

but TLR only could if the cut left his atiumminds attached to the largest piece of him

Pretty sure he had one on each arm, probably for that reason. Beheading? He lives. Cut at the waist? He lives. Cut down the middle? He lives.

On 8/14/2017 at 2:41 AM, cometaryorbit said:

aluminum bullet fired from a sniper rifle into the right part of his brain

This having been discussed multiple times in the "how to kill gold compounder" thread, I'll be quick. That requires low enough velocity for the bullet to get lodged in his brain, rather than being a through and through. Shrapnel is a game of chance on whether it'd spread to the right spots to incapacitate him. Still a better chance than most any other methods.

On 8/5/2017 at 9:37 PM, AnonymousFan said:

On another thought, what's the most technologically developed planet in the cosmere?

As Weltall says, it's still currently Taldain. However, we got a WoB in Warsaw about the future of technological progress

Quote

10:19
DK: Technological progress. So Scadrial is going all the way to cyberpunk.
BS: Yes.
DK: But do you plan to do it on, anywhere else?
BS: Yes, with an asterisk, right. Roshar has very different technological path but they have access to so much more Investiture in easy to use format. Roshar is really heading toward what we call magic punk or things like this mage punk, where you are using a magical power source and things like this. So their technology is gonna go weird but it's gonna go fast once they start figuring things out because they have easy access to Investiture resources.
Scadrial: slower for various reasons and things like that, but it's ahead.
And then there was Taldain, which was really far ahead but then froze when it got, offworld travel was stopped and became isolationist.
So most everybody is kind of heading that direction but, yeah.

[+ILuvHats he/him]

On 9/11/2017 at 4:18 PM, The One Who Connects said:

10:19
DK: Technological progress. So Scadrial is going all the way to cyberpunk.
BS: Yes.
DK: But do you plan to do it on, anywhere else?
BS: Yes, with an asterisk, right. Roshar has very different technological path but they have access to so much more Investiture in easy to use format. Roshar is really heading toward what we call magic punk or things like this mage punk, where you are using a magical power source and things like this. So their technology is gonna go weird but it's gonna go fast once they start figuring things out because they have easy access to Investiture resources.
Scadrial: slower for various reasons and things like that, but it's ahead.
And then there was Taldain, which was really far ahead but then froze when it got, offworld travel was stopped and became isolationist.
So most everybody is kind of heading that direction but, yeah.

Wait, so Taldain hasn't progressed technologically since Bavarian began the isolationist policy?  After seeing @Weltall's quote, I thought Taldains technology continued progression, just separate from other shard worlds.  Also, Sanderson's grammar in the above quote is confusing.  Can somebody confirm that Sanderson is really saying that Taldain froze technologically?

 

On 8/7/2017 at 1:47 PM, Weltall said:

It doesn't mean that progress has been stagnant (it seems more like Autonomy wants to keep outsiders from influencing the planet's development, than stopping it entirely) but it does mean we don't have a good idea what's been going on there for a long span of time.

 

[Jondesu he/him]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:26 PM, ILuvHats said:

Wait, so Taldain hasn't progressed technologically since Bavarian began the isolationist policy?  After seeing @Weltall's quote, I thought Taldains technology continued progression, just separate from other shard worlds.  Also, Sanderson's grammar in the above quote is confusing.  Can somebody confirm that Sanderson is really saying that Taldain froze technologically?

I actually suspect Taldain's technological progress had something to do with worldhoppers in the first place.  Metallurgy from Scadrians could certainly help creating guns, and others could have had similar insights that would make big differences (I just can't think of any other specific examples right now).  We know there was travel to and from Scadrial already at the time of TFE (via Hoid), and I doubt there were no Scadrians off-world by then.  Traveling off Roshar shouldn't be too difficult.  We don't really know about Nalthis, and we know it'd be very difficult to get off Sel, but it's obviously possible as well.