Rogue One Spoiler Thread

[Left]

So the first Star Wars Legends film is out! What did ya'll think? I went to the first showing I could. The vibe in the theater wasn't nearly as fun as it was for Force Awakens, which was sad but understandable.

Good points for the film:

Everyone dies. I think this was a really good choice, even though I did really enjoy a few of the characters.

Darth Vader being a boss at the end

The film was dark. It worked well.

More people who are force sensitive, that' really exciting to me.

The droid was channeling HK 47, and it doesn't get better than that.

There were some really cool throw backs to A New Hope, and Jimmy Smitts coming back as Bail Organa helped keep a tie to the prequel movies that I really liked.

The Bad:

Tarkin: Was it really neccesary to animate the character? Same with Leia, although they did a better job with her. He took away attention from the Death Star General, who I really enjoyed watching.

I honestly can barely remember any of the new character's names. I don't need to since they're dead, but it's not a good thing when I can't even remember their names. I liked most of them, but I don't know what they're called...

There were two points where character development felt really really odd. First was when the black extremist rebel just decided to quit and die. That just felt really weird to me. The other was when the rebel assasin decided to not snipe Jen's dad. I don't understand what motivated him to stop.

When Darth Vader makes his entrance, my first impression was that a woman was in the suit. His walk felt really off in that scene, like he was swaggering or doing a runway. At the very least, there's some hip swaying, which is NOT Darth Vader. They also messed with his suit design, which doesn't make sense since it should be identical to the one in A New Hope.

 

All of my cons are pretty small nitpicks, it was a good movie, and I enjoyed it.

[AerionBFII]

Vader was savage at the end. I loved it.

[BeskarKomrk]

I thought it was a little slow at the start, but once we got into the main part of the movie I was hooked. Especially once they started the mission at the end, I thought the last 45 minutes or so was absolutely incredible. Even though it was really sad, I thought having all the characters die was the right choice. It really sets it apart from a lot of other blockbuster movies coming out now, and makes A New Hope feel even more important. And even given the slow start, there were a lot of moments in the beginning that blew me away. Some really really incredible use of CGI here.

I'm pretty sure Jimmy Smits in the movie is the first and only time they have acknowledged the existence of the prequels.

[Retsam]

I also had the issue of "I really like these characters, but I couldn't name them for the life of me".  Part of it is just that there are a lot of minor characters this time around (arguably, it's a whole cast of minor characters); and part of it is that the movie just moves too quickly to spend much time on properly introducing them.

The main character arcs were probably the weakest part, for me.  Both Jyn and Cassian feel like they're supposed to have arcs, but really don't; they both just sort of abruptly change their characterization halfway through the film.  I don't know that they needed arcs, really; but it feels like the movie was trying to give them arcs, but just didn't do a great job of it.  

I really liked how well connected to A New Hope it is, and just how seamless the transition between the two seems to be.  Little details like "Red Five" getting shot down (hence why that callsign is open for Luke in IV), or how they introduce a "Blue Squadron" (in addition to the Red and Gold squadron from IV) that gets wiped out.  There's even a throwaway line from a stormtrooper explaining why the "Striker" fighters don't show up in any of the original trilogy.  ("Did you hear that the [model name] is now obsolete?"  "It's about time.")

As others have said, the first half of the movie is a bit slow and meandering, but the second half is well worth the price of admission.

Extreme nitpicking: minor plothole edition: R2D2 and C3PO's cameo doesn't make a ton of sense: they watch the fleet leaving and 3PO says something like "Nobody told us they were going to Scarif".  But shouldn't they have been with that fleet, given that the Tantive IV (which R2 and 3PO are on in IV) detaches from a larger ship at the end of the battle, and it leads right into Episode IV?

[Savanorn]

9 hours ago, Ookla the Left said:

So the first Star Wars Legends film is out! What did ya'll think? I went to the first showing I could. The vibe in the theater wasn't nearly as fun as it was for Force Awakens, which was sad but understandable.

Good points for the film:

Everyone dies. I think this was a really good choice, even though I did really enjoy a few of the characters.

Darth Vader being a boss at the end

The film was dark. It worked well.

More people who are force sensitive, that' really exciting to me.

The droid was channeling HK 47, and it doesn't get better than that.

There were some really cool throw backs to A New Hope, and Jimmy Smitts coming back as Bail Organa helped keep a tie to the prequel movies that I really liked.

The Bad:

Tarkin: Was it really neccesary to animate the character? Same with Leia, although they did a better job with her. He took away attention from the Death Star General, who I really enjoyed watching.

I honestly can barely remember any of the new character's names. I don't need to since they're dead, but it's not a good thing when I can't even remember their names. I liked most of them, but I don't know what they're called...

There were two points where character development felt really really odd. First was when the black extremist rebel just decided to quit and die. That just felt really weird to me. The other was when the rebel assasin decided to not snipe Jen's dad. I don't understand what motivated him to stop.

When Darth Vader makes his entrance, my first impression was that a woman was in the suit. His walk felt really off in that scene, like he was swaggering or doing a runway. At the very least, there's some hip swaying, which is NOT Darth Vader. They also messed with his suit design, which doesn't make sense since it should be identical to the one in A New Hope.

 

All of my cons are pretty small nitpicks, it was a good movie, and I enjoyed it.

Some really good points. 

I actually liked the animated Tarkin. I don't think he was necessary, but I liked it.

I thought Darth felt off. Especially the bit where he chokes that guy...

Droid was ballin'

Everyone Dies was stupid and lazy. Not to mention it felt out of key with the rest of the movie. Don't get me wrong thought K2so and Donny Yen had some good deaths. But for Forest Whitaker and the big guy it just seemed stupid. They essentially just let themselves die. With Jyn and Cassian I just...what...wish they'd tried to survive? 

Like. The point is to try and take every chance until they run out. The chance to win and, one would expect, the chance to survive. 

5 hours ago, Retsam said:

I also had the issue of "I really like these characters, but I couldn't name them for the life of me".  Part of it is just that there are a lot of minor characters this time around (arguably, it's a whole cast of minor characters); and part of it is that the movie just moves too quickly to spend much time on properly introducing them.

The main character arcs were probably the weakest part, for me.  Both Jyn and Cassian feel like they're supposed to have arcs, but really don't; they both just sort of abruptly change their characterization halfway through the film.  I don't know that they needed arcs, really; but it feels like the movie was trying to give them arcs, but just didn't do a great job of it.  

I really liked how well connected to A New Hope it is, and just how seamless the transition between the two seems to be.  Little details like "Red Five" getting shot down (hence why that callsign is open for Luke in IV), or how they introduce a "Blue Squadron" (in addition to the Red and Gold squadron from IV) that gets wiped out.  There's even a throwaway line from a stormtrooper explaining why the "Striker" fighters don't show up in any of the original trilogy.  ("Did you hear that the [model name] is now obsolete?"  "It's about time.")

As others have said, the first half of the movie is a bit slow and meandering, but the second half is well worth the price of admission.

Extreme nitpicking: minor plothole edition: R2D2 and C3PO's cameo doesn't make a ton of sense: they watch the fleet leaving and 3PO says something like "Nobody told us they were going to Scarif".  But shouldn't they have been with that fleet, given that the Tantive IV (which R2 and 3PO are on in IV) detaches from a larger ship at the end of the battle, and it leads right into Episode IV?

Pretty much agree. 

Like, it was a good movie, but definitely had its flaws.

[The Invested Beard]

Loved it loved it loved it. Glad everyone died. That's really the only way to explain their absence from Episode 4 without it feeling shoehorned. Vader carnage at the end really worked and really helped to show why he was so feared as this unstoppable force. I really liked the Guardians of the Whills characters and loved that they incorporated Kyber Crystals into the whole thing, keeping old canon fresh. CGI characters weren't distracting enough to really pull me out of the story and served a really good purpose. I want to watch it again right now.

[Retsam]

On 12/16/2016 at 11:46 AM, BeskarKomrk said:

I'm pretty sure Jimmy Smits in the movie is the first and only time they have acknowledged the existence of the prequels.

I'm pretty sure The Force Awakens references a clone army at one point (though yes, clones were mentioned in Episode IV; though I'm pretty sure the Episode VII line was there to explain why Finn doesn't look like Jango Fett, so that might count in a meta-way).  And I'm pretty sure Vader is hanging out on Mustafar in this movie.  (I'm not sure why Vader would still be there, though.  Inexpensive rent?  Nostalgic attachment to that place where he got his arms and legs cut off and nearly burned to death?  Big fan of roasted marshmallows?  Who knows.)

I heard people claim that VII was deliberately avoiding the prequels as well: I don't really think that's the case: I just think that generally there aren't a ton of reasons for characters to reference the Clone Wars.  (And wishful thinking on the part of the prequel haters)

[Voidus]

I feel really confused about reviews of Rogue One, I'm kind of used to defending star wars movies from criticism, I really don't think the prequels were as bad as everyones always making them out to be, yes they changed the tone quite a bit and there were a few silly things in them but why is it that the thing people always complain about is midichlorians? Explaining the science in a sci-fi saga is pretty standard for the course and is barely worth mentioning let alone going into some huge rant about.
(Someone ranty review below, spoilered for those who just want to discuss their enjoyment for others)

And yet this time I find people to be giving mostly positive reviews for what I find to be probably the worst Star wars movie I've seen. CGI Tarkin was incredibly distracting and annoying, it was set up well as a small cameo where the bad cgi was obscured by the fact that we could only see him as a reflection, then he turns face to camera and becomes a main character for the whole movie. CGI leia was better and kep on screen for a sufficiently brief period of time that the cgi wasn't too noticeable or distracting, so they clearly knew how to do it right and yet they still chose to keep Tarkin in scene after scene. The constant cameos felt incredibly forced (Seriously why the heck did they include the two guys from the mos-eisley cantina on Jedha? They were just there for a half a day before immediately evacuating to tatooine to go visit a cantina in time for ep IV?) Darth Vader had both a suit-upgrade (Which makes no sense since this is immediately before ep-IV) and an incredibly stupid pun (Which is incredibly out of character), although he was at least redeemed with an awesomely bad-chull fight scene at the end.

The whole plot kind of annoys me too, it makes no sense that the imperials would be so confident in the death star when they know specifically that there was a traitor who was the chief engineer, that the secret plans were obtained and sent to the rebels immediately after the daughter of said traitor found out about them, and that the rebels knew specifically that there was some kind of weakness in those designs. But no, they drive the death star right into the rebels so that it can be blown up along with a ton of important imperial officers and very nearly Vader himself.

Also, if they were just going to blow the entire base up with the death star, was there really a need to give each of the characters their own, separate, depressingly heroic death scenes?

 

Finally, I saw the film in 3D so this last point may have been an issue with the cinema I went to or something but the quality was pretty terrible, the focus seemed to randomly shift from background to foreground mid conversation, and characters faces went out of focus while they were still talking as the focal point of the scene. Now again this might have been the cinema and I'm usually forgiving of cinematography faults like that since they don't really impact your enjoyment of the story but this was a freaking star wars moving funded by Disney, how could they not have the money to make sure it looked decent?

Now again this is a rather awkward position for me, I love star wars, I love it even with its faults and I am very excited for all the new star wars movies but this was just terrible, maybe it will be better the second watch through but I am not sure I could even do that, I certainly wouldn't pay admission to see it again at the cinemas and even when its available through some streaming service or another I'm still not sure I'll ever rewatch it. I'm also just really confused at how positive a reaction its gotten, I feel like maybe I'm missing something so I hope I can find out what it was by reading the reviews of others but until then I am very disappointed in this installment.

[little wilson]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I had a similar issue with not knowing anyone's name outside of Jyn and Cassian (and barely even Cassian for that matter). I both liked that everyone died (it fit) and was really sad that everyone died because there were some really cool characters (particularly Donnie Yen's character. He was amazing and fantastic and I loved him). Jedha was really cool, and I loved the blowing it up sequence, and in particular everyone on the Death Star's reaction to it. They were all just dead silent, and I can't help but think that some of them might've been just a little horrified at the massive power display that was only a tiny portion of the Death Star's full potential.

That said, I had a couple of plot issues. 

The first has already been mentioned: C3P0 and R2's cameo. I feel like this is a pretty major plot hole when you think about it. How does A New Hope happen if R2 and 3P0 didn't go with the rebels and therefore couldn't be on Leia's ship? What, did the rebels suddenly acquire Star Trek technology and they can beam droids across vast distances? The writers snuck in that cameo just to sneak it in for fun, but it completely messes everything up. Because if those droids aren't there (which they weren't), the plans couldn't have gotten to Tatooine (since they were looking for life signs in the escape pods from the ship and would've blown up any escape pod with life signs), so Luke would've stayed at the farm and never run into Obi-Wan, Leia would've died on the Death Star, the Death Star would've blown up the rebel base at Yavin, and the Empire would've won. All because of a pointless cameo. Brilliant.

Second, Leia is a diplomat. Why in the world did they send her into a war zone where she could've gotten killed?! And why in the world didn't they have her leave when all the other rebel ships were trying to get the heck out of there? No, they have her stick around for an absurdly long time attached to the disabled command ship, barely escaping before Vader gets there. Right. And then they try to fool Vader when he catches up to them, saying that they're just a diplomat vessel, when they were just in a freaking war zone. Because that makes a lot of sense.

I did like that it tied straight into A New Hope, but I wish they had done it in a way that at least made a bit of sense. Because this doesn't. You don't send a politician to a war zone where they can die. But if you're going to send a politician to a war zone, you're definitely not going to have them stick around when a Star Destroyer appears and then a Sith lord is heading over to board the vessel and kill everything in his path. I don't know what would've worked better (though somehow sending a transmission of the plans to Leia's ship that's away from the war zone would've been considerably more believable), but what they went with was definitely not the right path to take.

[Delightful]

I actually thought coming straight from a war zone makes it so believable as to why Vader didn't believe Leias protests that she wasn't part of the Rebel Alliance. I kind of assumed she was on the way to Tattooine anyway but the command ship got rerouted? or something?

It bothered me that Sol whoever and the blind guy both seemed super accepting of their deaths. Like, you're a rebel, fight dangnabbit! Jyn and Cassian made sense to me, they knew they couldn't outrun the blast. Although they could have maybe found a ship.....I did like the moment when the white cloak dude looked up and saw the death star and knew that was his end.

Another nitpick; why so few women. Jan is awesome yay but there are, what, 6 important side characters and they're all male, and all the relevant engineers and commanders and basically everyone with a speaking part (and everyone background character in a crowd) aside from the two other women in that one rebellion scene are all male. It was a bit ridiculous.

On the plus side: Scenery was gorgeous, ATAT's and Vader were terrifying, it was interesting to see the Death Star has more control than just its planet-destruction capability. I do like the Death Star ending, it seemed appropriate and lots of feels. Definitely I like that they didn't try shoehorn in a romance on top of everything else, and at the end, for a moment I was worried Jyn and Cassian would kiss but nope. Crisis averted.  

And......stardust. So much cuteness Or as someone said to me.......Jyn became star dust  

Interestingly, its made me want to rematch A New Hope because story momentum; I saw ANH recently and didn't find it quite as compelling as I used to. So there's that....

[Ecthelion III]

I thought I was the only one who noticed Vader walking weird. Guess not   Other than that, he was quite well done and definitely much more terrifying than his previous incarnations: always accompanied by flame and red imagery, harms people without any thought, etc.

I also had the same issue about not knowing everyone's names. I remembered Jin/Jyn/Djinn/Ginn/etc, Andor, and Guerrera, but not The Imperial Pilot Guy, The Blind Dude, The Machine Gun Guy, The Imperial In The White Cloak, and I don't remember if there was anyone else.

That 3P0 and R2 scene seemed really out of place and would have been better to have been left out. To be honest, so would that part near the beginning where Andor kills the guy with the bad arm (I think); the beginning was convoluted enough as it was.

The character arcs made sense (at least to me) in the context of trust.

I liked how everyone died at the end, and I think that the separate and meaningful deaths were much better than everyone just dying to the Death Star at once. I'm also super glad that they didn't kiss at the end.

The score was fantastic. Not Williams, but it did a fantastic job of setting the tone.

CG Tarkin was obviously CG, but I didn't mind it too much.

Overall, it was great but not amazing.

[Kaymyth]

Just got back home from seeing this.  My thoughts/replies/caveats:

1)  CGI Tarkin and Leia were both awful.  Their facial movements were extremely unnatural to me, but then I tend to be highly tuned into faces.  Seriously, guys, was this really necessary?  If you can't get it perfect, don't do it at all, because they just gave me the creeps.

2)  Everything else was awesome.

3)  Saul's death actually made sense; the dude couldn't move quickly.  He had two metal legs, and kind of hobbled along.  The others barely made it out by the skin of their teeth; if they'd waited for him, they all would have been blown up.  As it was, he made it to the entrance just in time to look Death in the eye.  Likewise, the Big Guy knew that he was at the end of the line.  He'd just watched his best (and last living friend) die, he didn't have a rescue coming - so he went out in a blaze of glory and took down as many bad guys as he could along the way. 

4)  Which brings us to Everyone Dies.  I disagree strongly with the idea that this was lazy storytelling.  I think we're so used to seeing the heroes beat the odds and win the day that a choice like this hits us hard in the feels, but I think the ending is far more authentic than "the heroes magically escape in the nick of time!"  And it gives the ending of A New Hope weight that it never had before, putting faces and (in some cases, heh) names to the people who sacrificed their lives to make that victory possible.  Heroes don't always survive.  That's the nature of war.

But particularly this:

On 12/17/2016 at 9:36 PM, Voidus said:

 

  Hide contents

Also, if they were just going to blow the entire base up with the death star, was there really a need to give each of the characters their own, separate, depressingly heroic death scenes?

 

Yes, I absolutely think it was necessary.  A blanket "Death Star goes boom, everybody dies" would have borne a fraction of the emotional weight and done the characters a disservice.  Seeing them meet their ends, each a hero in their own way, it finishes each of their lives with the respect due a hero.

5)  R2D2 and C3PO - I...just tell myself that three seconds after 3PO's whining they got ordered onto a ship and shuffled off.  It takes a few minutes to scramble that many ships.  They had time.  Yep.  Sure.  That's it.

6)  Leia - Bail Organa left with parting words that heavily implied he was about to send her to get hold of Obi-Wan.  Likely she met up with the fleet, learned what they were doing, and made the choice that she needed to see them herself before pulling a hidden Jedi out of retirement.  Or something to that effect.  Throwing herself into danger wasn't exactly the cleverest idea she's ever had, but it was certainly in character for her.

7)  The Death Star Plans - IIRC, it was White Cloak Wossname who knew that Galen had built a weakness into the Death Star.  He's a bit too fond of his own skin to have shared that knowledge with higher leadership.  "Oh, Lord Vader, by the way!  I know you just Force-choked me, but I thought you'd get a giggle out of this - there's a deadly flaw in the Death Star plans!  But no worries, I'll figure it out, wait, why are you swinging your lightsaber at me...?"

Yeah, no, he's not going to share that little tidbit. 

Finally, that last shot of Jyn and Cassian was just beautiful.  That hug was so perfect and so human - two people clinging together, taking solace in their last moment.  I think maybe someone snuck an onion into the theater.

 

[Quiver]

Saw it last night, full thoughts later. Quickly; it's probably not as good as The Force Awakens, but it's more ambitious, more interesting, and I like it more. Also:

21 hours ago, little wilson said:

Second, Leia is a diplomat. Why in the world did they send her into a war zone where she could've gotten killed?! And why in the world didn't they have her leave when all the other rebel ships were trying to get the heck out of there? No, they have her stick around for an absurdly long time attached to the disabled command ship, barely escaping before Vader gets there. Right. And then they try to fool Vader when he catches up to them, saying that they're just a diplomat vessel, when they were just in a freaking war zone. Because that makes a lot of sense.

Leia being there is odd, but I'll second @Deliiiiiightful because...look at what happened. Vader saw that ship pullaway from him. 

Like, literally right from under him. So he knows they aren't a diplomatic vessel.

And Leia and everyone else on-board just keep trying go tell him"Nah man, we're diplomats! You saw us at a battle? No way, must have bee seeing things dude."

They know he doesn't buy it for a second, and they stick to it anyway. The idea of Leia being so obstructive to the Dark Lord of the Sith "Just 'cause" is awesome and in-character.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Quiver

[Delightful]

Andor kills the guy with the bad arm? Who didn't have legs? 

Actually that is so in character for leia to jump in and join the fleet. 

And yeah the jyn cassias hug was perfection. 

[Vissy]

Overall I really did enjoy this. But I felt that the beginning of the movie jumped around way too much, I couldn't get a grasp of what was really going on. I couldn't get grounded on the movie, I suppose. The middle of the movie I didn't particularly care about, though seeing Vader again was EPIC. The entire final section of the movie was great, got me on the edge of my seat. Also Vader just wading through blaster fire like it was nothing. Magnificent.

There were a lot of easter eggs I probably missed, and I only realized the movie was taking place before the original trilogy after I saw the Death Star, but hey I'd kept myself spoiler-free before seeing it so I guess that's on me?

And I'm also glad that they didn't kiss at the end xD

Edited December 19, 2016 by Rob Lucci

[Voidus]

3 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

4)  Which brings us to Everyone Dies.  I disagree strongly with the idea that this was lazy storytelling.  I think we're so used to seeing the heroes beat the odds and win the day that a choice like this hits us hard in the feels, but I think the ending is far more authentic than "the heroes magically escape in the nick of time!"  And it gives the ending of A New Hope weight that it never had before, putting faces and (in some cases, heh) names to the people who sacrificed their lives to make that victory possible.  Heroes don't always survive.  That's the nature of war.

But particularly this:

Yes, I absolutely think it was necessary.  A blanket "Death Star goes boom, everybody dies" would have borne a fraction of the emotional weight and done the characters a disservice.  Seeing them meet their ends, each a hero in their own way, it finishes each of their lives with the respect due a hero.

 

See I understand that sentiment but my view is that that then completely undercuts the whole depressing, gruesome realities of war thing they had, which actually did add some emotional weight to a story that I think was sorely in need of it.

I really really want to like this movie but any time I find something somewhat redeeming for it I find something else that just completely undercuts it. Maybe I went in overhyping it or something, don't know. I'm sure that the early annoyances (CGI Tarkin, overly used and forced cameos) probably spoiled the latter half of it for me but even on looking back I still just can't bring myself to actually think well of it.

[The Invested Beard]

6 hours ago, Voidus said:

See I understand that sentiment but my view is that that then completely undercuts the whole depressing, gruesome realities of war thing they had, which actually did add some emotional weight to a story that I think was sorely in need of it.

I really really want to like this movie but any time I find something somewhat redeeming for it I find something else that just completely undercuts it. Maybe I went in overhyping it or something, don't know. I'm sure that the early annoyances (CGI Tarkin, overly used and forced cameos) probably spoiled the latter half of it for me but even on looking back I still just can't bring myself to actually think well of it.

The cameos to me made a lot of sense. Everyone that had a cameo would have been involved and needed to be shown. Bail Organa was part of the rebellion from the start. It would have been weird for him not to have been there helping make decisions. There's no way Red and Gold leaders would have sat out such an important mission. C3-PO and R2-D2 were definitely on the Tantive IV in ANH so why not show them with the rebellion? Tarkin was basically the highest ranking officer in the Empire. Not only would he have wanted to be personally involved in the progress of their most important weapon, he was in charge of the thing in ANH, so it's nice they explained how the lead up to that worked.

 

I think if you just kind of let yourself get caught up in the feels it's easier to let the movie entertain you and carry you along. Just my 2 cents.

[Kaymyth]

6 hours ago, Voidus said:

See I understand that sentiment but my view is that that then completely undercuts the whole depressing, gruesome realities of war thing they had, which actually did add some emotional weight to a story that I think was sorely in need of it.
 

But speaking from a psychological point of view, the way they handled it was much more effective for a greater number of people.  In fact, had your preferred method been used, I would have been actively pissed off.  This would have worked in, say, a war movie "based on a true story" because the audience would be prepared for that kind of ending.  In a Star Wars movie, however, they are actively not prepared for that, and thus from a storytelling perspective had to be handled carefully.

The characters are our emotional investment in the movie.  We care about what happens to them, and to go in the direction of killing everybody in the end is a bold move.  But it has to be handled in a way that doesn't alienate the audience, and just dropping the Death Star onto everybody without those little moments would have absolutely done that.  People need the payoff to their emotional investment, or else they're just going to walk out of the theater feeling furious and cheated.

[Argent]

I'll just second everything @LeftVash said. Overall, I liked The Force Awakens better, but I don't regret seeing Rogue One.

[Retsam]

On 12/18/2016 at 2:16 AM, little wilson said:

Second, Leia is a diplomat. Why in the world did they send her into a war zone where she could've gotten killed?! And why in the world didn't they have her leave when all the other rebel ships were trying to get the heck out of there? No, they have her stick around for an absurdly long time attached to the disabled command ship, barely escaping before Vader gets there. Right. And then they try to fool Vader when he catches up to them, saying that they're just a diplomat vessel, when they were just in a freaking war zone. Because that makes a lot of sense.

My guess is that having Leia take the plans was always the plan.  They're attached to the command ship in order to transfer the plans, and barely escape in time because of it.  

As for why Leia was chosen; probably at least in part for the sake of the "diplomat" excuse.  Sure, Vader knows the excuse is Bantha fodder (though they probably hoped that Vader wouldn't personally witness the Tantive IV escaping with the plans); but it's still pretty bad PR for the Empire, as far as the rest of the galaxy knows, the Empire really is just attacking a famous senator on a diplomatic mission.  (And we know that the Empire still cares about PR, hence the conversation about keeping the Death Star a secret until its ready)  It's not like the Empire could say "we're attacking her to reclaim the stolen plans for our super weapon, that one we've been insisting that we totally don't have".  

[The Invested Beard]

23 minutes ago, Retsam said:

My guess is that having Leia take the plans was always the plan.  They're attached to the command ship in order to transfer the plans, and barely escape in time because of it.  

As for why Leia was chosen; probably at least in part for the sake of the "diplomat" excuse.  Sure, Vader knows the excuse is Bantha fodder (though they probably hoped that Vader wouldn't personally witness the Tantive IV escaping with the plans); but it's still pretty bad PR for the Empire, as far as the rest of the galaxy knows, the Empire really is just attacking a famous senator on a diplomatic mission.  (And we know that the Empire still cares about PR, hence the conversation about keeping the Death Star a secret until its ready)  It's not like the Empire could say "we're attacking her to reclaim the stolen plans for our super weapon, that one we've been insisting that we totally don't have".  

Plus the Imperial senate was technically still a thing at this point so yeah, keeping PR handled was definitely something that they would have been trying to do. It wasn't until ANH that the senate was disbanded and they didn't really have to care about what anyone thought.

Edited December 19, 2016 by The Invested Beard

[little wilson]

Okay, I can kind of understand why Leia would be there with the explanation that it looks worse on the Empire to restrain a diplomat. However, I'm sure there's some sort of proof that the Tantive IV had been at Scarif, and all the Empire would have to do is prove that, and then their reasons for chasing down a ship involved in a rebel attack explain themselves. They don't even have to mention the Death Star plans at all (and I'm positive they'd be able to find some way to blame the rebellion for what happened to the Scarif base). And while I agree that it's in character for Leia to throw herself into a war like that, she had another mission and I don't think it's in character for her to delay that mission. Even if she knew about the Scarif mission and the rebellion getting the plans, there would be no reason for her to assume that practically the entire rebellion can't handle Scarif and getting those plans out, but that she, someone who is not a fighter pilot, would have an effect (when they had no reason to assume Vader or the Death Star would show up to Scarif and almost foil everything). If anything, her mission would become more important with that knowledge and more necessary to complete as soon as possible, because with Obi-Wan's help and the plans they might finally be able to take the Empire down. And we know she's fine splitting off from the main alliance to do a smaller, but very important mission: look no further than the forest moon of Endor. I view her mission to get Obi-Wan like that. The rebellion tells her they're going to take care of this and they need her to go get Obi-Wan. So she does it. She doesn't throw herself into the battle. She's needed elsewhere. She has a mission to complete.

That said, she absolutely is gutsy enough to look Vader in the eye when he catches up to them, telling her that it's a rebel ship, that 'no, this is totally a diplomatic vessel, dude; there ain't no rebels here!' even though she probably knows he was on the command ship, that he single-handedly cleared a path to her ship, and watched it leave. So if she were going to be at the battle, it's all in character for her. But I don't think she ever would've been in the battle in the first place. She should've been on her way to Tatooine.

[Delightful]

3 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

But speaking from a psychological point of view, the way they handled it was much more effective for a greater number of people.  In fact, had your preferred method been used, I would have been actively pissed off.  This would have worked in, say, a war movie "based on a true story" because the audience would be prepared for that kind of ending.  In a Star Wars movie, however, they are actively not prepared for that, and thus from a storytelling perspective had to be handled carefully.

The characters are our emotional investment in the movie.  We care about what happens to them, and to go in the direction of killing everybody in the end is a bold move.  But it has to be handled in a way that doesn't alienate the audience, and just dropping the Death Star onto everybody without those little moments would have absolutely done that.  People need the payoff to their emotional investment, or else they're just going to walk out of the theater feeling furious and cheated.

Particularly after TFA's "oh seriously, another Death Star?!" They had to be pretty careful how they played it.

[Briar King]

I see a lot of gripping going on about Leia being at battle. To me it makes perfect sense esp after all these yrs of watching ANH. 

 

A lot of people are prob forgetting that at this time the Emp and Vader still are checked powerwise...the senate still holds major power till halfway through ep4 when it's desolved. Tarkin even says how hard it was to get order to term her life is to get and another admiral and Leia say the senate won't sit still with this etc...so even though she was at battle and he saw her she has diplomatic immunity/protection and can say whatever to Vader. It also makes sense on just one more reason to blow up Alderaan..they can identify the ship and just get revenge.

[Briar King]

As for C3PO-R2 to me it made sense...ONLY after we get to end of movie. I had ZERO clue that Leia would even be in this movie so to have the droids say the equ of Come on R2 we're going would have given it away that we were getting that treat imo. Ed of course you can then ask why even have them in this. Answer is simple: they have been the characters to be in every single film. Odds are this will continue while movies are in this timeline. Prepare for many more cameos.

You have to give it to them how great a lid they kept on this movie. I had heard that only a holo of Tarkin may show up, people were crying out wondering why Jimmy Smitts(Bail Organa) wasn't showing up on set as it would make sense. The ANH cantina fodder, pilots showing up, etc. in this info age this stuff should have leaked and I saw not one thing except Tarkin holo speculation. Kudos to all those treats!

i saw the Ghost/heard General Sundalla bit but didn't see Chopper on Yavin 4.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Briar King