The Art of Game Creation

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

On 4/7/2018 at 6:59 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

None of the public rules indicate that alignment changes are possible, so I'm presuming that this is part of a secret trait. More importantly, how would the lovers end up being the last two players when the Cthaeh cannot die?

Is this last role supposed to be Arcanist instead of magician?

Is this a redirecting action? If players A, B, and C were selected, would this cause actions that target A to affect B, B to affect C, and C to affect A?

Does this apply to items as well?

This doesn't appear to accomplish anything, unless there are secret vote manipulation abilities or if it protects from the lutist/flutist abilities.

What is the order of actions?

All the yellow and blue roles are confirmed good, correct? The only exceptions are potential secret traits and that Cinder(s) will appear as a different role after the first cycle.

1a. No confirmations or denials here. I did consciously decide whether or not to create the mechanic you are speculating about, but I had already decided to include this part of the rules regardless. 

1b. In accord with the win conditions for Good and Evil, the Cthaeh doesn't really count towards parity. The lovers would need to be the last surviving members of each of their respective factions.

2. No, the magician is a possible role that I ended up scrapping. I forgot to delete it from the actor's list. I thought I fixed that before anybody noticed. Nothing to see here, move along 

3. Yup. Exactly so.

4. Yes, it applies to items the same as anything else. Note though that an action failing refers to it being blocked or avoided. If for an example an attack is made and the target survives, the attack was still successfully executed. It just didn't have the desired outcome.

5. It does protect from the lutist/flutist abilities. I consider the lutist/flutist abilities a form of vote weight manipulation, because they alter the impact of votes instead of altering the votes themselves (in constrast with the Scraeling power, which is the only non-secret power that can alter the votes themselves).

6. The order of actions is not locked in place yet. However, right now it is thus:

Action Blocks
Naming
Priest
Lodestone
Acrobat
Action Manipulation
Juggler
Skindancer
Sympathist
Singer

Vote Manipulation
Singer
Jester
Lutist
Flutist
Wine
Protects
Naming
Ruler
Scrael
Kills
Evil Faction
Archer
Knife
Scrael
The Lynch
Scans
Storyteller
Lamp
Hunter
Role Manipulation
Tinker / Item Passing
Ruler's Grammarie
Cinder's Glammourie
Actor's Study
Child's Inheritance

7. All the yellow and blue roles are confirmed good, yes. Also, note that in addition to the ones you pointed out, Skindancer possession is another power that can fool role-scans.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Drake Marshall
Revised order.

[Arraenae]

That OoA is so long o.O I'll use my pass on this game, it sounds awesome.

[Jondesu he/him]

That reminds me, I’ve gotta finish the rules for my LotR game so I can convince someone it’s worth a pass. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

[Steeldancer he/him]

Storms alight that would need CoGMs

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 hours ago, Arraenae said:

That OoA is so long o.O I'll use my pass on this game, it sounds awesome.

Really? *parties*

I have an MR coming up. I originally planned to run it as a game set in the Roughs, including a small assortment of era 2 metals, allomancers, and ferrings.

But I could just as well run this in its place and put off the Roughs game, if there is interest for this one.

I'm just a tiny bit more excited about the KKC game, but I'd truly be happy to put on either. Question to the sharders: which would you rather?

3 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Storms alight that would need CoGMs

The important part of the OOA is the bolded parts. The non-bolded entries only matter if actions of the same general type need to be resolved against each other.

That said, I do anticipate that this game would greatly benefit from at least one co-GM, yeah. 

[Straw he/him]

Shouldn’t action blocks and action manipulation be before vote manipulation?

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Point.

Update: The OOA has been revised. I have also slightly revised the Cthaeh's powers.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Drake Marshall

[DeTess she/her]

@Drake Marshall, I'd be willing to co-gm this one. Playing it sounds great fun, but getting to see the antics of the cthaeh live sounds pretty great too.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

20 hours ago, randuir said:

@Drake Marshall, I'd be willing to co-gm this one. Playing it sounds great fun, but getting to see the antics of the cthaeh live sounds pretty great too.

I would be exceedingly glad to have you as co-GM, if you would like to be co-GM. Many thanks.

[Kidpen he/him]

Alright, I had a quick idea for a premise for a game. However, I don't know how to actually fit it into the Cosmere. The basic thought is that each person has a different win condition. There are no factions, only roles and win conditions. Each person only know's their own win condition, and doesn't even know the possible conditions. So I was wondering if anyone had an idea for a setting for this. And don't worry, I know I need to play a lot more before I'm ready to run a game, and I need to flesh this out a lot. Oh, and I have no problem with anyone using this basis if they want.

[Straw he/him]

@Kidpen There was a game link that. However, it to was super confusing, pretty unbalanced, and not very fun for the GM. Link: 

I’d probably recommend signing up for a game now, due to the fact that it usually takes a very long time for you to get to the top of the list. Also, I’d recommend starting out with something a bit more simple, and asking an experienced player to help you run it.

[Kidpen he/him]

5 minutes ago, Straw said:

@Kidpen There was a game link that. However, it to was super confusing, pretty unbalanced, and not very fun for the GM. Link: 

I’d probably recommend signing up for a game now, due to the fact that it usually takes a very long time for you to get to the top of the list. Also, I’d recommend starting out with something a bit more simple, and asking an experienced player to help you run it.

Right. I definitely have no plans to actually run any game until I've done quite a few more as a player, and planned to probably run something less complicated beforehand. My question still stands though, although less specific to that idea. What do you do if you have an idea but don't know how to fit it into a Brandon work?

[Steeldancer he/him]

I had an idea similar To that but not quite as crazy. It’s my Marvel Secret Invasion game, I’ve mentioned it before. Where everyone signs up as a particular superhero with particular abilities, and the skrulls invade and replace people with superskrulls. The reason I haven’t done the rules formally is because all the heroes would be a pain to balance.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

MR24 was a reckoner's blackout game that was nearly free-for-all. Compared to LG26 (of which my knowledge is rather limited), I would say MR24 was significantly less complicated and probably better balanced. I for one thought it was a fun game to play through. Might be a possible source of inspiration for you.

[Elenion he/him]

3 hours ago, Kidpen said:

Right. I definitely have no plans to actually run any game until I've done quite a few more as a player, and planned to probably run something less complicated beforehand. My question still stands though, although less specific to that idea. What do you do if you have an idea but don't know how to fit it into a Brandon work?

Write it first as a non-Sanderson, and then change the names of the roles and abilities until it fits a Sanderson novel of your choice.

[Kidpen he/him]

Alright, unrelated to what I've said above, but I have something for real now that I want feedback on.

Spoiler

This is a faction game. Each faction’s goal is to eliminate all of the other factions.

A standard lynch will happen every day turn.

Each faction has one leader. They each have a list of every member of their own faction, but can not vote or create PMs. They can not be targeted by any action. The identities of them are publicly available to see on each thread. They can still post in the thread. Each leader also has their own power. They can not be lynched. Leaders are killed as soon as their entire faction other than them is dead.

 

Factions and Leaders:

Set

The Council: You control the Set and worship almighty Trell. You receive a certain amount and types of spikes to distribute as you please throughout the players. You can delay giving out spikes if you would like, but after giving them out they can not be regained or moved.

Harmony’s Chosen

Harmony: You are the god of your people. You have the ability to see the alignment, spikes, medallions, and roles of anyone who has more than one spike. Players may PM you at will, but you may not PM back.

Southern Scadrians

Sovereign: You are the leader of the South. Once per cycle, you can make a medallion for any one allomantic role, and give it to any player. Giving it can be done at will, with an unlimited amount per turn. This medallion grants that power to the person it is given to. They can also be given away during the night phase by any owner of it to any other person.

 

Roles:

 

Spoiler

 

Kandra: Once per game, during a day turn, you may message the GM to say that you would like to absorb the lynched person. When you do this, you will, beginning on the following night turn, receive any roles and items that player had.

Lawman: During a night turn, once per cycle, you can find out if a player of your choice has written any direct lies in the thread since the beginning of the last day turn.

 

Allomantic Roles:

Spoiler

Unless stated otherwise, these each can be used once per cycle.

Steel: You can send an infinite amount of PM’s.

Pewter: You can kill one player per cycle.

Tin: Once every two cycles, you may receive a transcript of the last PM a player of your choice has posted in, other than PM's that include the GM and the player.

Zinc: You may change one person’s vote who has not voted to a player of your choice.

Brass: You may disable one player’s vote for one cycle.

Copper: You are immune to bronze, zinc, and brass.

Bronze: You may find out the allomantic roles and the way they received those roles of one player.

Electrum: You can see if there is a player who currently has an action targeted at you, other than the leaders. You will find out the action, but not the identity.

Players can not begin with an allomantic role. It must be given to them by something.

This was something I casually wrote up in a couple days, and it's no where near finished, but I figured I'd look to see if anything stands out immediately as a bad idea. Also, if anyone has any advice for what I could do with the other metals, that would be useful. I'm going to continue looking at this myself of course and making decisions about things that would make sense or things that wouldn't. Again, the only amount of thought I've put into it is what you see here, so it's very unfinished.

Edit: It kinda happened anyway, but in case someone was gonna respond, don't bother. This is super outdated.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Kidpen

[Jondesu he/him]

I mentioned I had a LotR game in the works, but until just the other day, I hadn't done anything with it.  It still has a good bit of work to go, but there's some mechanics here that fascinate me, and I want to put it out there for people to see (and hopefully get someone to give me a pass to run it since it's non-Sanderson).  I'll adapt it to Sanderson if needed, but I've got an awesome story ready for it that I don't want to have to sacrifice.

Spoiler

Shadow in the South

General Rules:

• This is a faction game.

• PMs will be open during all cycles.  There are no restrictions on PMs, except that the GMs must be included in all PMs.  Group PMs are permitted.

• All actions must be submitted via your role PM during the appropriate cycles.  If you will be unavailable during a cycle and wish to submit your action early, let me know, and that will be handled on a case-by-case basis.

• The alignment and role of players who are lynched or killed will be revealed at the beginning of the following cycle.

• Every player must post in the thread at least once per full cycle (combined Night and Day cycles), starting from Day 3.  Anyone who does not will he left behind when breaking camp the following day cycle. Players who have been left behind may be replaced by pinch hitters if available, or will be considered dead otherwise. Sending in actions or participating in PMs will not protect you.

 

 

Roles:

• There will be three main factions in this game, with possible individual win conditions as well.

• The Companions goal is to eliminate the threats to the success of their mission, both from the Agents of Mordor and from the Gondor Spies. They win when both other factions are eliminated.

• The Agents of Mordor are secretly searching for the disguised wizard Gandalf, as well as the Prince of Greenwood and the Elven Handmaiden. They win if all three are eliminated.

• The Gondor Spies wish to divert the mission to Gondor. To do so, they must eliminate the trustworthy guides and all those who would follow them. They win if they outnumber the other two factions, or if they completely eliminate the Companions as well as the Hand of Sauron.

 

Special Roles:

• Gandalf the Grey

  • Gandalf has taken up a disguise in order to seek out the Agents of Mordor. Each night cycle, he may either scan a player’s alignment or protect a player (need to add flavor).

  • Gandalf’s win condition is the same as the Companions.

• The Hand of Sauron

  • The Hand of Sauron is Mordor’s lead Agent.

  • Each night cycle, they may place a drought in a single player’s waterskin, rendering them ill and unable to take any actions.

  • During each day cycle, they may lure a player away from the gathering, nullify that player’s vote along with their own.

• Mordor Assassin

  • Each Agent of Mordor will have access to the Assassin role, except The Hand of Sauron.

  • Each night, they may kill a player in his or her sleep, sent via their personal role PM. Only one assassin may work each night, to avoid discovery. If multiple assassination orders are sent via the player’s individual role PMs, they will be alerted to another player active in the camp and will abandon their mission that night to avoid discovery, so none of the kills will be successful.

• The Prince of Greenwood

  • Legolas Greenleaf has likewise taken up the guise of another traveler. His keen eyes and unerring aim will prove essential.

  • Each night cycle, he may spy from a distance to identify the items held by another player.

• The Elven Handmaiden

  • Arwen Evenstar has sent her personal servant to provide secret guidance and aid.

  • Each day cycle, she may secretly provide a player with an invigorating draught that gives them an extra action to take that night. The player who is chosen will be notified via PM, but no notification will be provided in the main thread.

• Eavesdropper

  • This overly nosy individual has a habit of listening in on private conversations. Each cycle they may choose two players and get a copy of any private messages sent between those players. They will not be told who else either player communicated with, nor the contents of those messages. They will receive all PMs for the full cycle, both day and night, at the start of the following day cycle.

 

Items:

• Poison vial

  • Some players will be chosen by RNG at the beginning of the game to carry a poison vial with them. During any night cycle, they may administer the vial to the waterskin of another player. The poison takes a full day to take effect, meaning that player will die the following night if an antidote is not administered.

• Antidote (name for flavor?)

  • Every player will begin the game with an antidote, which can be used in one of two ways.

  • They may take the full dose on any day cycle, which will completely counteract any poison administered the previous night cycle. It does not protect the player in advance, so it must be taken the cycle after they are poisoned, during the day cycle to avoid their death that night.

  • Instead, a player may also choose to take only a half dose, which allows them to use it twice within the game. If a player takes a half dose, the poisons effects will take longer to manifest. They will gain an extra day cycle to live, but will be unable to take any actions beginning during the night cycle in which they would have died. They may still vote the following day cycle, however.

 

Actions and restrictions:

• Each player will have two actions per full cycle (i.e. they may take two day actions, one day and one night action, or two night actions, excluding assassinations).

• Creating and sending PMs, as well as voting, are not considered actions. Possible actions include any aforementioned role abilities, using an item, or passing an item to another player. Items passed to another player will be made available to them at the beginning of the following day or night cycle, depending on when it is passed.

 

Order of actions:

• TBD

I may (probably) still add additional roles, items, and abilities, possibly including secret ones, and I haven't figured out yet if this will be able to be balanced well.

[CadCom he/him]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but there is a version of werewolf, called One Night, where you only play a one night version of the game. Are there any One-cycle versions of SE out there? If not, I would be willing to create some game mechanics for one, and post it here for feedback, as a new style of game.

There is also a character that I find extremely fun, and it's called the Tanner. The Tanner's whole goal is to be the one to be lynched at the end of the night. if he is lynched, then he wins, and everyone else loses. Would there be a way to adapt a character like that into the continuous games, like "If [Hoid] is killed, then he fulfills his Win con, and sets off a timer/bomb that marks a definite end of game (for example: 3 cycles later) In order for any other teams to win, they must fulfill their wincon by that time." I think it could be fun, because then you can make very powerful characters, that would usually throw off the balance, but they would have to be more cautious to use any kill powers, because killing off the wrong guy can destroy your team

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 hours ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but there is a version of werewolf, called One Night, where you only play a one night version of the game. Are there any One-cycle versions of SE out there? If not, I would be willing to create some game mechanics for one, and post it here for feedback, as a new style of game.

There is also a character that I find extremely fun, and it's called the Tanner. The Tanner's whole goal is to be the one to be lynched at the end of the night. if he is lynched, then he wins, and everyone else loses. Would there be a way to adapt a character like that into the continuous games, like "If [Hoid] is killed, then he fulfills his Win con, and sets off a timer/bomb that marks a definite end of game (for example: 3 cycles later) In order for any other teams to win, they must fulfill their wincon by that time." I think it could be fun, because then you can make very powerful characters, that would usually throw off the balance, but they would have to be more cautious to use any kill powers, because killing off the wrong guy can destroy your team

Similar to a jester in regular games, but more extreme. Sounds fun.

We actually did something a lot like this with a “truthless” role once. As a truthless, they have a deah wish and want to be lynched... But they killed every single person who voted on them if they got lynched.

[CadCom he/him]

So, I've created a rough draft version of a One Night or 1C (one cycle) game, as I referenced in my previous post. This is what I have, I think it would be fun to try it as an experiment, and if it's fun, it could maybe be implemented as a new game-style.

Would anyone be willing to provide feedback on the game, or have any questions? Because the game is a little bit different style, from my experience in live face to face versions, a better balance in this game is between 25 and 35% elim.

Spoiler

Cycle/Game Length: 24-48 hour night. Everyone puts in actions

                                      72 hour Day to discuss what occurred during the night

Activity filter: Because game is one cycle long, there is no filter

Writeup Content: There will be an initial write-up, and the beginning of the day cycle, as well as a final write-up.

PM’s: Open PM’s allowed and encouraged. GM must be added to each PM. Plus Open thread communication is preferred.

Rogue Hazekiller(Neutral) During the night phase, this player may choose another player as a target. This player can only win this wincon, if that player is lynched.

Voting: You cannot end the cycle with a vote on yourself. Your vote will be ignored, and you will automatically lose.

FACTIONS:

Elim: Steel Ministry Win-con: No Elims are lynched at the end of the game

Leader of the Ministry(May convert one player to the steel ministry

Ministry Seeker(may seek out the role of one person)

Ministry workers(no night actions, may have day actions)

Kandra(traitor)(Knows who the Elim team is. If killed, villagers lose, If Elims win, he wins)

Village: If at least one Elim is lynched, your team wins. If you die as an individual, but your team wins, you still win

Seeker(Informed of the role of another person)(May be more, depending on player amount)

Informant(May find out the role of another person)(        If that person is not Elim, their role is revealed in the write-up)

Tineye(Informed of actions other players performed at end of cycle)

Oracle(Is able to find out if their role is still the same at the end of the night)

Hemalurgic troublemaker(May spike two people, steal their abilities, and swap them)(swaps roles of people)

Lerasium-spiked**Theoretical** (May choose to find out another person’s role at the beginning of the cycle, then become a copy of that person’s role

Matchmaker (may choose two people to fall in love)(If a

Neutral: Neutrals have their own wincon, some are more difficult than others, but all are acheivable. Some neutrals can have village and separate wincon. or elim and separate wincon

Kelsier(Neutral) His goal is to sacrifice himself for the Skaa rebellion. If he wins, all others lose.

Rogue Hazekiller(Neutral) During the night phase, this player may choose another player as a target. This player can only win this wincon, if that player is lynched.

(possible lovers): Survive the game, without Kelsier winning(Neutral cannot be lover). If one lover is Elim, and the Village team wins, then the Lovers both win (Lovers cannot vote for each other)

ROLES:

Night Roles

Kandra(traitor)(Knows who the Elim team is. If killed, villagers lose, If Elims win, he wins)

Spiked(Robber) (May choose to change his role with the role of another player. Gets to know what his new role is)

Kelsier(Neutral) His goal is to sacrifice himself for the Skaa rebellion. If he wins, all others lose.

Seeker(Informed of the role of another person)(May be more, depending on player amount

Tineye(Informed of actions other players performed at end of cycle)

Oracle(Is able to find out if their role is still the same at the end of the night)

Hemalurgic troublemaker(May spike two people, steal their abilities, and swap them)(swaps roles of people)

Lerasium-spiked**Theoretical** (May choose to find out another person’s role at the beginning of the cycle, then become a copy of that person’s role

Leader of the Ministry(May convert one player to the steel ministry

Ministry Seeker(may seek out the role of one person)

Ministry workers(no night actions, may have day actions)

Informant(May find out the role of another person)(If that person is not Elim, their role is revealed in the write-up)

 

Day Roles

Thug: Own vote counts as two. May choose to turn it off, but must inform the GM through PM

Zinc: May make another person’s vote count as 2, or move their vote

Brass: May nullify another person’s vote

Hazekiller: If a hazekilller is lynched, the person he points at is killed as well

Koloss: If person is a target of a lynch, target’s total vote count is lowered by one

 

Order of night actions.

Lerasium-spiked**Theoretical** (His new role will be informed to him as soon as possible, and will be performed simultaneously or immediately after the original role performs the role)(It is not guaranteed that the new role will be able to be used if this player does not put in a request early in the turn)

Matchmaker (Village)

Leader of the Ministry (elim)

Ministry Seeker (Elim)

Seeker (Village)

Informant (Village)

Tineye (Village)

Hemalurgic troublemaker (Village)

Spiked(robber)(village)

Rogue Hazekiller(Neutral) During the night phase, this player may choose another player as a target. This player can only win this wincon, if that player is lynched.

Oracle(Is able to find out if their role is still the same at the end of the night)(Village)

Day actions are performed simultaneously at the time of rollover

 

Clarifications

Actions are performed based on what a player’s role is at the beginning of the night.

A player’s Win-con is determined based on what their role is during the day turn.

Unless otherwise stated, players will not know what their new role is, or if their role changed at all.

Players will not necessarily know if their role has changed, and therefore, it may be wise to do partial reveals, or false reveals, or true reveals early on in the day turn, so that hopefully, information can be gathered and roles can be determined.

Those that do not have a night action will be given a day action.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Cadmium Compounder
Clarification on Win-con

[Jondesu he/him]

That's a pretty cool concept.  Less time involvement for both players and mods, and should be fun.  It'd have to be run somewhat separately from the current schedule I'd guess, since it wouldn't be even as long as a QF.

[Kidpen he/him]

That would just be 24 hours, then it's over, right? No rollover? I've played one night, so I know what you're talking about.

[CadCom he/him]

32 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

That would just be 24 hours, then it's over, right? No rollover? I've played one night, so I know what you're talking about.

I was thinking like 24-48 hours to put in actions, just so everyone has time to do so, then 48-72 to discuss, once again, so everyone has time to discuss, then respond if they want.

It would be a role madness, role claim madness and role change madness style game.

[Kidpen he/him]

6 minutes ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

I was thinking like 24-48 hours to put in actions, just so everyone has time to do so, then 48-72 to discuss, once again, so everyone has time to discuss, then respond if they want.

It would be a role madness, role claim madness and role change madness style game.

Role changing is fun.

[Straw he/him]

What about having an anthology game, where each cycle is a single cycle game? That way, you could have multiple different rulesets in one game, which could be a bit interesting.