Proof that adolin has already partially revived his sword?

[king of nowhere]

when rereading WoR, I noticed this particularly interesting tidbit that may bring great support to the idea that adolin will revive his sword. During the battle of Narak, when Adolin is engagedby Eshonai (chapeter 83, page 1002 of english hardcover edition):
 

Quote

 

- he trembled and dropped his blade in disgust. It vanished to mist.

Something crashed itno him from behind.

He lurched over a corpse - stumbling but keeping his feet - and spun about.  A shardblade smashed against his chest, spreading a glowing web of cracks across his breastplate. He deflected the next blow with his forearm and stepped back, taking a battle stance.

She stood before him, rain streaming from her armor. What had she named herself? Eshonai.

Inside his elm, Adolin grinned at the shardbearer. This he could do. An honest fight. He raised his hands, the shardblade forming from mist as he swung upward and deflected her attack in a sweeping parry.

Thank you, he thought.

 

So you see, first adolin drops his blade. then he is surprised. And then he summons the sword again. No mention of preparing to summmon. No mention of counting heartbeats. And quite a short time to summon a blade normally. It really would seem that adolin can summon his blade without the heartbeat thing.

Not only that, but the "thank you" is strongly reminescent of a similar scene, when shallan is in the chasm and she is trying to cut handholds with her blade (chapter 72, pag. 863). She thinks that the blade is too big to cut while climbing, and it shrinks. And then the story goes

Quote

Thank you, she thought

Which would be quite the coincidence otherwise.

So, theories that adolin will revive his blade have been around for a while, but I think I found a solid piece of evidence that he's already started the process.

Edited November 3, 2016 by king of nowhere

[thegatorgirl00]

There was also this passage in Ch85 of WoR. 

Quote

Adolin cursed and lunged for the assassin, but a fluttering tarp—brushed by the assassin in passing—leaped toward Adolin. The monster could command inanimate objects! Adolin sliced through the tarp and then jumped forward to swing for the assassin.

He found nothing to fight.

Duck.

He threw himself to the ground as something passed over his head, the assassin flying through the air. Szeth’s hissing Shardblade missed Adolin’s head by inches.

There has been speculation about where the duck came from. 

[Ardjet]

1 minute ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

There was also this passage in Ch85 of WoR. 

There has been speculation about where the duck came from. 

There have been instances of Italicized text referring to characters thinking to themselves. I can accept the possibility of this from a theory perspective, especially with how fast that Blade drop and resummon would have to be. Cooould be 10 heartbeats, as Adolins heartrate would be high. I do have doubts, reading the sequence in the first quote. But I don't believe this is proof. Adolin is a trained warrior and likely has sharply-honed instincts, which could account for some.
Definitely some good supporting points, though.

[Zea mays]

18 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

There has been speculation about where the duck came from. 

This sentence, especially out of context, is all too emblematic of the Cosmere fandom.

[Eki]

41 minutes ago, Ardjet said:

There have been instances of Italicized text referring to characters thinking to themselves.

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

There have also been instances where the italicized text isn't the character thinking to themselves. In particular, Ruin, Kelsier, and Harmony have been known to insert thoughts into people.

I do agree that it isn't proof though. Very interesting, but... I don't see what Adolin could have done in particular to start a Shardblade revival...

Edited November 3, 2016 by Eki
Accidentally made a quote instead of a spoiler :O

[Sishal]

@Eki that was my thought as well. Especially since the WoB about this matter says that it's complicated to revive a Shardblade without the Knight that spoke the oaths... I'm not sure if you can "accidentally" revive a Shardblade?

But I still like the idea 

[Krandacth]

13 minutes ago, Sishal said:

@Eki that was my thought as well. Especially since the WoB about this matter says that it's complicated to revive a Shardblade without the Knight that spoke the oaths... I'm not sure if you can "accidentally" revive a Shardblade?

But I still like the idea 

My theory about the nature of the symbiosis in the Nahel Bond (posted a while ago, I may link if people are interested) actually accounts for dead Sprenblade-revival being almost necessarily accidental, or at least appearing so to the one for whom the Sprenblade is revived (their life could be manipulated to that end, but it would take some extreme planning and willingness to cause high levels of physical and or emotional pain to that person).

Basically, it would require a person to:

* Be bonded to a Shardblade.

* Be broken in the same manner as the Blade's original KR was broken (similar traumatic event and near identical spiritual response).

* To have adopted the same ideals as the Blade's original KR, without the guidance of a Spren.

In other words, as far as the Spren is concerned, they need to be a spiritual clone of the original KR.

[Sishal]

@Krandacth that is an interesting theory. I like it... it definitely sounds complicated enough to be a very rare event (and it makes me curious about your Nahel Bond theory). 

Though Adolin never struck me as an Edgedancer and I think I read somewhere, that his sword is an Edgedancer sword? 

[Eki]

8 minutes ago, Sishal said:

Though Adolin never struck me as an Edgedancer and I think I read somewhere, that his sword is an Edgedancer sword? 

Yes. When summoned, it forms vines before snapping into physical form. I think we know too little about the Edgedancers to say if Adolin fits or not. The only one we've seen is Lift, and she might be a very odd Edgedancer by all accounts.

[1stBondsmith]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

- he trembled and dropped his blade in disgust. It vanished to mist.

He dropped it intentionally. He threw it at other times. He let it go. You can do this to a dead Shrdblade.

 

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

She stood before him, rain streaming from her armor. What had she named herself? Eshonai.

Inside his elm, Adolin grinned at the shardbearer. This he could do. An honest fight. He raised his hands, the shardblade forming from mist as he swung upward and deflected her attack in a sweeping parry.

Thank you, he thought.

Look at all that time from falling and seeing Eshoni till the blade appeared. Plenty of time for 10 heartbeats. (particularly in battle). It just wasn't added to make it read smoothly. Finally, Adolin was thanking Eshoni for attacking. It focused him and got rid of the revulsion to the carnage. A duel, not a slaughter. He was thanking her.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, 1stBondsmith said:

Look at all that time from falling and seeing Eshoni till the blade appeared. Plenty of time for 10 heartbeats. (particularly in battle). It just wasn't added to make it read smoothly. Finally, Adolin was thanking Eshoni for attacking. It focused him and got rid of the revulsion to the carnage. A duel, not a slaughter. He was thanking her.

I bolded the part about adolin dropping the blade to emphasize the fact that it had been dismissed, not because there wan anything strange to it. As for the time... really, ten heartbeats? Eshonai tackeld adolin, which is when he noticed her and the earliest he may have started resummoning the blade. then she struck him twice while he was unarmed. At the third strike, he summoned the blade. Eshonai was trying to take advantage on an unarmed opponent, she surely was striking fast to hit as much as she could before adolin could get his blade back. Isn't it odd that she only managed to do it twice?

Plus, adolin being an experienced fighter is actually going to make his heart beat slower, not faster. A quick heartbeat is for those who are paniking or who are in bad shape, and adolin is neither. I doubt he was past 100 beats per minute.

As for the fact that it was added to make it read smoothly... Do we have any instance in the two books of a point of view character summoning a dead blade without a mention that he started to summon? I can't recall any. In fact, the only time I recall it is when Shallan kills Tyn... which is done with a live shardblade, further corroborating my point. It would really take a lot of bite out of my argument if someone could produce a relevant counterexample.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not saying that adolin reviving his blade is a certainty. it may as well be a feint from brandon. I'm just saying that this evidence pushes it from "just another theory" to "something quite likely to happen"

Edited November 3, 2016 by king of nowhere

[Brightshade the Cunning]

That's an interesting idea, but we know from

Spoiler

Pattern's musings and Syl's return

that reviving a spren, but the first makes it clear that it is the original Surgebinder. However, this doesn't entirely discount your theory.

[Krandacth]

@Sishal and anyone else who was interested in my theory regarding the nature of the Nahel bond, link below.

I'd like to point out that the quoted text does read like less than 10 heartbeats to me, and I always read his "thank you" as to his blade.

Also, I do see Adolin as an Edgedancer, or at least holding the one ideal of theirs that we know, i.e. I will remember those that have been forgotten (e.g. The prostitute in Sadeas' camp in WoR). There are other less obvious examples, like his personal beef with Sadeas over the Tower (not so much "you betrayed us", as is Dalinar's primary concern, but "you let all those men, good men, die for your political games"). There are probably more, but am typing on my mobile, so cba to go into them now

Edited November 3, 2016 by Krandacth

[maxal]

Interesting. This is actually something new. I do not believe anyone ever had this argumentation before. I certainly never caught on it and I doubt one word was said on Adolin, in the past three years, across the Internet I am not aware of.

I do agree it is odd as it is true all other instances of summoning a dead-Blade implies having the character thinking about the heartbeats. Not here. This scene strangely happens after Adolin loses the Thrill and drops his Blade, shaking. It also happens a short while before he hears or thinks the word duck. This one has been discussed and no conclusion have been reached. 

This being said, I would also argue Adolin is panicked in this scene. He just realized he was a monster. He just realized he was everything he has always despised: a butcher. He was shaken, so shaken he, an elite fighter, dropped his Blade in the mist of a battle. He. Dropped. His. Blade. Experienced soldiers never dropped their weapons which is a testimony as to how unsettled Adolin is in this scene. All this considered, it might be his heart beat was going faster than usual.

[Sishal]

@Krandacth thanks for the link 

And for the part Adolin as a Edgedancer. I never saw him not as an Edgedancer because he has no similarities with Lift, but because of the loving and healing attributes that define them. When I read his parts it always struck me how he follows the orders of his father, even if he doubted him. Probably that's because I always saw him more as a Releaser. But you make good points that got me thinking:

5 hours ago, Krandacth said:

@Sishal

Also, I do see Adolin as an Edgedancer, or at least holding the one ideal of theirs that we know, i.e. I will remember those that have been forgotten (e.g. The prostitute in Sadeas' camp in WoR). There are other less obvious examples, like his personal beef with Sadeas over the Tower (not so much "you betrayed us", as is Dalinar's primary concern, but "you let all those men, good men, die for your political games"). There are probably more, but am typing on my mobile, so cba to go into them now

 

As to he part with the ten heartbeats... Didn't it say somewhere in WoK that the heart beats faster if you need to summon your Shardblade very quickly? But I don't have my book with me, so I can't look it up 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Sishal
Just read your theory (and the complete thread) and it really blew my mind. Have to think about that one a bit more but I definitely like the idea :)

[Massik]

The thing I noticed most about that whole scene is that he was sickened in the height of The Thrill, just like Dalinar...

[Stark]

I wonder, if this theory is correct, would Adolin's pre-duel ritual of talking to the blade have anything to do with his revival.  Seeing as dueling is a massive part of who he is, we could see him talking often enough to start forming a bond with it. Syl has mentioned that you cannot truly kill a Spren, as they are embodied ideas, and her own "Resurrection" supports this. 

 

While he may not fit the Edgedancer ideal, and may not be forming a Nahel bond with the Spren of his blade, he may be creating a bond with it by talking to it before every duel as an old friend and not a tool.  Also worth noting is that he has not named his blade, that we know of, leaving it open for the Spren's identity to re-assert itself more easily.

 

I really like this theory.

[theuntaintedchild]

19 hours ago, Zea mays said:

This sentence, especially out of context, is all too emblematic of the Cosmere fandom.

I also read that out of context and couldn't stop laughing for like 10 minutes. 

[1stBondsmith]

17 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

As for the fact that it was added to make it read smoothly... Do we have any instance in the two books of a point of view character summoning a dead blade without a mention that he started to summon? I can't recall any. In fact, the only time I recall it is when Shallan kills Tyn... which is done with a live shardblade, further corroborating my point. It would really take a lot of bite out of my argument if someone could produce a relevant counterexample.

When Dalinar pulled the shardblade on Amaram, no mention of 10 was given. Its reads very well at that point.

I've been in battle a few times. When things go kinetic, they slow down for an experienced warior, but I'm here to tell you, your heart speeds up. PARTICULARLY in a hand to hand fight. He took a surprise hit. deflected the next, stepped back, took a stance and observed her standing in the rain and had time to remember her name and be grateful for a challenge and smile. Quite easily 10 heartbeats. Gratitude of the challenge was written in here very well.

I do not dispute the future of Adolin as a radiant, (we shall see), but I do not see here proof of such from this scene. 

[DeTess]

9 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

When Dalinar pulled the shardblade on Amaram, no mention of 10 was given. Its reads very well at that point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that scene was from Kaladin's perspective, not Dalinar's, right? So that wouldn't count as an example of the ten heartbeats not being mentioned when seen from the shardbearers perspective.

12 hours ago, Sishal said:

As to he part with the ten heartbeats... Didn't it say somewhere in WoK that the heart beats faster if you need to summon your Shardblade very quickly? But I don't have my book with me, so I can't look it up 

I remember that scene, but the reasoning was inverted: if you where in a situation that required a shardblade, your heartbeat would likely be quicker than when you where in a normal, relaxed and non-life-threatening situation.

[Stark]

You got there first

2 hours ago, randuir said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that scene was from Kaladin's perspective, not Dalinar's, right? So that wouldn't count as an example of the ten heartbeats not being mentioned when seen from the shardbearers perspective.

 

We have plenty of scenes where someone else watches a shardblade be drawn, and no counts the heartbeats.  Partially because none of them have hearing that good, and partially because you can't always tell when someone is drawing, unless they use the stereotypical position with one hand slightly behind.  Even in the Chasms, Kaladin doesn't remark on how quickly Shallan's blade comes.

 

As far as I can tell, that scene with Adolin  is the only time someone with a 'dead' blade draws it without mentioning the 10 seconds.  In fact, almost every other time someone has had to draw a blade after combat has started, the countdown appears in Italics, as it adds some tension to the scene.  I figure there would have been some mention made of Adolin needing to dodge Eshonai for a 3-5 seconds (depending on his combat heart rate) while summoning.  

 

It is conceivable that that detail got left on the cutting room floor during editing, to stream line the fight.  But that seems really unlikely to me, especially for a detail with as much potential for massive impact.

 

As for Adolin not being an Edgedancer...  Well, Spren are concepts, or ideas, given form and presence.  But ideas and concepts can change over time. We have seen Syl evolve through her interactions with Kaladin. Who is to say that Adolin is not changing the Spren with his interaction with its 'corpse'?  He could be changing the fundamental idnetity of the 'dead' Spren into something new and different - or he could just be an Edgedancer and our pre-conceptions of that order are all wrong because we don't actually know much about them.

 

A lot of options to explore.

[Massik]

3 hours ago, 1stBondsmith said:

When Dalinar pulled the shardblade on Amaram, no mention of 10 was given. Its reads very well at that point.

I've been in battle a few times. When things go kinetic, they slow down for an experienced warior, but I'm here to tell you, your heart speeds up. PARTICULARLY in a hand to hand fight. He took a surprise hit. deflected the next, stepped back, took a stance and observed her standing in the rain and had time to remember her name and be grateful for a challenge and smile. Quite easily 10 heartbeats. Gratitude of the challenge was written in here very well.

I do not dispute the future of Adolin as a radiant, (we shall see), but I do not see here proof of such from this scene. 

Isn't the blade he pulled on Amaram Taln's blade though?  

Remember Dalinar gave his away to free Bridge Four, and the only reason he confronts Amaram is because he knows he is lying about the very blade he pulls, Taln's.   Likey an Honorblade, right?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Massik

[WeiryWriter]

9 minutes ago, Massik said:

Isn't the blade he pulled on Amaram Taln's blade though?  

Remeber Dalinar gave his away to free Bridge Four, and the only reason he confronts Amaram is because he knows he is lying about the very blade he pulls, Taln's.   Likey an Honorblade, right

Go back and read the descriptions of the sword Taln shows up with at the end of WoK and the sword Dalinar bonds. They are not the same sword, they were switched out at some point by persons unknown.

[maxal]

About Adolin and Edgedancers... There are two points I have seen brought within this thread I would like to address.

1) I cannot see Adolin as an Edgedancer as he bears no resemblance with Lift

Of course, being our only self-declared Edgedancer, little Lift has become the benchmark by which we evaluate potential proto-Edgedancers. Considering the fact she is an orphan thief with a bad language who seemed completely uninterested in learning anything while secretly cultivating a generous heart, it has been hard for many to see any link whatsoever with dashing Prince Adolin. After all, what could a grown-up Prince have in common with a little thieving girl? 

A lot more than people are giving them credit for.

Lift believes there is such thing as unlucky numbers, thinking being an age she cannot count on her fingers is... unlucky. She also carries a lucky diamond chip. On his side, Adolin performs a pre-dueling ritual which involves a lucky charm he likes to keep on him. When called out for it by his aunt, he claims they aren't superstitions. Even if he admits his ritual probably didn't help him win, he still refuses risking not doing it. 

Nale dislikes Edgedancers because he claims they were fools who attached too much important to insignificant things. Insignificant such as lucky charms and needing to eat chicken before a fight?

Lift has been rolling her eyes at Wyndle each time he has tried to give something resembling knowledge. Whatever her reason for brushing away from the hand opportunities to learn, it is remind-full of Adolin exhibiting more or less the same reaction when Navani tries to have him learn some glyphs. Is it an Edgedancer quirk? I cannot say, but I have noted the similitude.

Lift drops an opportunity to escape in order to attempt at saving Gawx. I will remember those who where forgotten. If she didn't care, who else would? Hence, she risked everything for a boy she barely knew and did not even appreciate. Of course, Adolin has never had the opportunity to choose in between his own life and someone's else, but I get the impression he would choose the former and not later... After all, isn't he the one jumping ahead of his men because he feels it is his duty to stand up for them? However, the best element has to be Adolin actually stopping to help a prostitute while being within an enemy camp. Obviously, it wasn't a do or die moment for him, but he is a Prince and she was a Prostitute. He stands close to the top, she stands close to the bottom and yet he found in him to actually care enough to intervene, to treat her with respect. Later on, when Kaladin is imprison in prison, he cared enough to lock himself with him, in protest thus depriving his father from his right hand man while openly defying a king's decree. Adolin has been putting others ahead of him, he has chosen to help, to do something as opposed to take the easy way out.

Is this enough? Well, there is only so much we can get out of one chapter on one character, here Lift, but based on the clues we have gotten there are more similitude then meets the eyes with Adolin. Of course, a Prince isn't going to behave the same way as a Teenage girl living in the street, but deep down both characters have shown to care for others even though their upbringing told them they shouldn't.

2) Loving and Healing do not fit Adolin, I see him as Brave and Obedient

Adolin appears as the perfect obedient boy, always prompt to whatever is asked of him. He is obedient, now isn't he? And brave? So Dustbringers it is, the most logical choice.

For this one, I would like to draw attention towards our other Radiants and how they have expressed their second attribute. It has never been easy, but for each one embracing this quality has come at the end of a reveal, a climax, a life changing moment...

Kaladin progresses when he finally acknowledges he has to take the leadership (leadership).

Dalinar progresses when he acknowledges he has to shepherd the other Highprinces under his guidance (guiding).

Shallan progresses when she is finally acknowledges the truth about herself (honesty).

One could also argue Renarin progresses when he finally admits he is a Radiant (giving). 

What is Adolin's most defining moment, his climaxes? What does his story amount to so far? Killing Sadeas. Adolin's greatest reveal and most striking action comes when he finally decides to NOT be obedient, to break the rules, to allow himself to go lose. Sure, he was emotionally disturbed, but it remains this moment forms a breaking in between whom Adolin has been before and whom he is now. 

Adolin just isn't a character who's progression passes through obedience. There is no analogy to be had with respect to our known example. I would hazard myself into saying Dustbringers were loose canons, out of control, foolhardy and crazy but who's progression passes through learning to actually obeying orders. If I am right, then we couldn't be any farther from our Adolin.

How can Adolin ever be Loving and Healing? Well... He already is... Loving. This has been one of his core attribute: the love he bears to those who are close to him, his refusal to think harm may come to them. The fact he genuinely cares about people, the fact he mourns the men he has lost combined with his hate of butchery and killing for no reason thinking it dishonorable. 

But healing? Adolin???

What does healing means? It means making someone sound again, healthy again. Of course, Adolin is not a proto-Edgedancer, he can't have had moments of growth related to his order, yet, but he has shown he could becoming healing. After all. doesn't he admits having join the army to kill as many Parshendi possible hoping it would fix his father? Fixing daddy. And later one, doesn't he try to make it right for Kaladin despite the imprisonment?

There is the potential, the potential to have a growth arc where he learns how to better help others.

I love the Edgedancer theory and it took a great deal lot of time to convince me to endorse it, but now I do I cannot believe I once saw him as anything else but an Edgedancer.

 

[goody153]

On 11/4/2016 at 1:49 PM, Massik said:

The thing I noticed most about that whole scene is that he was sickened in the height of The Thrill, just like Dalinar...

Oh yeah i was about to mention this one until i've read your comment. I remember that certainly is one of the things we've seen so far for those who became radiants like Dalinar or Kaladin(though probably not since he was disgusted fighting Parshendi due to their honor)