Proof that adolin has already partially revived his sword?

[maxal]

44 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Everything I'm reading here seems to at least tacitly agree that there are a multitude of valid ways for Adolin to bond his blade that would be consistent with past observations about his character, internally consistent with cosmere physics, and in line with supplementary information supplied from q&a with Sanderson. As always, there is wiggle room for the author to take a different direction; that'd be his prerogative and I'm ready to support it. However, as far as speculation goes, I think we can agree to applaud OP for a rock solid contribution. I think we've been supplied real evidence that Adolin might (keyword being might) have already begun a Nahel bond with a dead blade, using specific events. That's huge in my mind, the specifics are almost a non-issue.

Here are a few more words from Brandon... Took me a while to hunt for it.

Adolin's shardblade is a RAFO, as I want this to play out naturally and not squelch discussion. Suffice it to say that a dead Shardblade, under normal circumstances, is locked into a single form.

We'll find out more about dead spren as the books move forward.

 

It will put the emphasis on the "I want this to play out naturally", because I might be reading too much into it, but it is hard not to read this as a pseudo-confirmation.

 

 

[king of nowhere]

18 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Methinks the fandom is reading too deeply into things and this is proof of nothing.

I've been offering this same criticism to many other theories in the past. And many times, it is correct. But sometimes, brandon hides stuff just like that. It's like a treasure hunt that we are playing with him, where he hides clues and we have to unearth them from all the unimportant background. There will be nothing in most places, but you know there is treasure hidden somewhere. And now we have a somewhere that is more likely than other elsewheres.

[Crasher]

This is a really interesting theory and i think it would be really cool if it was true! This also made me think of the chapter that i think happened before one of his duels... maybe I'm not really sure. But Adolin was talking about how he hasn't given his blade a name because he believes it would be wrong since it probably already had a name of its own. Maybe this could also play apart in him forming a new connection with the dead blade.

[Sorgar Arduous Taciturn]

Shardblades scream which means they're still alive. Adolin continuously talks to his shardblade with calming words. Also it makes for an Enjoyable Engaging Entertaining story. So it's going to happen. Eeeventualleee. It's inEvitable.

[Samaldin]

On 24.11.2016 at 0:35 AM, Sorgar Arduous Taciturn said:

Shardblades scream which means they're still alive.

If i understood correctly it would be more accurate to say they are dead most of the time, but being summoned revives them for the duration of the summon but their spiritual aspectcan´t escape the moment of their death which is why they scream. (the part about the spiritual aspect is my interpretation, i think all thats stated is they can´t escape their dying moment)

[manavortex]

On 11/24/2016 at 0:35 AM, Sorgar Arduous Taciturn said:

Shardblades scream which means they're still alive.

I looked that up, highlighting the important bit:

 

Quote

He raised his hands and snapped them together.
Catching the Blade.
Screaming.
Why could he hear screaming? Inside his head? Was that Syl’s voice?
It reverberated through Kaladin. That horrible, awful screech shook him, made his muscles tremble. He released the Shardblade with a gasp, falling backward.

Relis dropped the Blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. “What is it? What is it! No, I didn’t kill you!” He shrieked as if in great pain...

I hereby theorize (theoretize? theoreticize?) that one needs a bonded Spren hear the Shardblades scream (my evidence: Dalinar. He couldn't have dropped his five minutes later when the Stormfather told him to, just for the sake of research, could he?). Relis is hearing it as well - after all, he is holding the blade while the screams ensue.

On that axiom there are a few other questions coming up. Are the bound spren screaming on behalf of the dead ones? Are the dead spren screaming through the bound ones? Are the bound spren giving the dead spren life enough to scream? (Again, Relis hears it too.)

As to not completely hijack this thread with unconnected speculation - Whether or not Adolin is bonding his blade he cannot say. However, it appears obvious to me that he feels a bond to it: 

Quote

Adolin had never named his Shardblade. Some did, some didn’t. He’d never thought it appropriate - not because he didn’t think the Blade deserved a name, but because he figured he didn’t know the right one. This weapon had belonged to one of the Knights Radiant, long ago. That man had named the weapon, undoubtedly. To call it something else seemed presumptuous

Quote

The Shardblade didn’t respond, but Adolin imagined that it listened to him. You couldn’t use a weapon like this, a weapon that seemed like an extension of the soul itself, and not feel at times that it was alive.

We have

• a dead spren, bound in a shardblade
• a young man who anthropomorphises his Shardblade, not knowing that he is right
• a proto-Radiant who has just recently been broken:

Quote

Adolin stood for a moment, staring Sadeas in the eyes, and then something finally snapped.

• a big fat RAFO from Brightness Sanderson (I really need to figure out a fancy title to use for him. The demiurg? The Chronicler Beyond?) instead of a "no, you're wrong".

This might be evidence and not proof, but I would put my spheres on Adolin.

Thank you for listening.

Edited November 25, 2016 by manavortex
Clarified poor phrasing

[maxal]

9 hours ago, manavortex said:

 

I looked that up, highlighting the important bit:

 

I hereby theorize (theoretize? theoreticize?) that one needs a bonded Spren hear the Shardblades scream (my evidence: Dalinar. He couldn't have dropped his five minutes later when the Stormfather told him to, just for the sake of research, could he?). Relis is hearing it as well - after all, he is holding the blade while the screams ensue.

On that axiom there are a few other questions coming up. Are the bound spren screaming on behalf of the dead ones? Are the dead spren screaming through the bound ones? Are the bound spren giving the dead spren life enough to scream? (Again, Relis hears it too.)

As to not completely hijack this thread with unconnected speculation - Whether or not Adolin is bonding his blade he cannot say. However, it appears obvious to me that he feels a bond to it: 

We have

• a dead spren, bound in a shardblade
• a young man who anthropomorphises his Shardblade, not knowing that he is right
• a proto-Radiant who has just recently been broken:

• a big fat RAFO from Brightness Sanderson (I really need to figure out a fancy title to use for him. The demiurg? The Chronicler Beyond?) instead of a "no, you're wrong".

This might be evidence and not proof, but I would put my spheres on Adolin.

Thank you for listening.

I am always listening : many people have made the same links you have made, but I am now forced to admit Adolin might just be one gigantic Red Herring.

A RAFO isn't a yes: it merely is a "I will not tell you right away, because I want you to keep on talking about it.". 

I love this theory, I really do, but I am slowly moving towards the "nothing interesting will come out of Adolin, everyone is right, he is just not that interesting, he'll just end up king or dead" bandwagon.

Keep on putting your sphere, at least it will make one person still having faith in Adolin as a character.

[DSC01]

I know I've said this before, @maxal, but I think that you're being waaaaaaaay to despondent about Adolin. I think that Adolin is very important. If Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan are all 100% important to the story, then Adolin is at least 60%--maybe up to 80 or even 90% (depending on how things go). I think that you're left feeling like he's maybe 10 or 20% important because he isn't up there with the flashback characters, but if you look at his POVs' wordcount in WoR, it's only about 1,000 words behind Dalinar''s POVs. That's like--what? 2 pages? He's a very important character. I think that he will continue to get a lot of words dedicated to him, and I do strongly suspect that he will revive his Shardblade. The foreshadowing is definitely there.

As for WoBs on the subject, I don't think anything can be taken from them, one way or the other. All he meant about letting the conversation play out naturally (I assume, anyway, since I've seen him comment on this before) is that he doesn't want to step in and derail conversations every time someone comes up with a theory. By "naturally," he just meant without his intervention. The only thing I can see being implied is that he thinks that it's an interesting idea. Maybe it's interesting because that's what he's planning to do, and it's cool to see how accurate people's predictions are (or aren't). Or maybe it's interesting because it's something that he never thought of and is not going to use, but he doesn't want to ruin fans' enjoyment of discussing it.

[maxal]

2 hours ago, DSC01 said:

I know I've said this before, @maxal, but I think that you're being waaaaaaaay to despondent about Adolin. I think that Adolin is very important. If Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan are all 100% important to the story, then Adolin is at least 60%--maybe up to 80 or even 90% (depending on how things go). I think that you're left feeling like he's maybe 10 or 20% important because he isn't up there with the flashback characters, but if you look at his POVs' wordcount in WoR, it's only about 1,000 words behind Dalinar''s POVs. That's like--what? 2 pages? He's a very important character. I think that he will continue to get a lot of words dedicated to him, and I do strongly suspect that he will revive his Shardblade. The foreshadowing is definitely there.

As for WoBs on the subject, I don't think anything can be taken from them, one way or the other. All he meant about letting the conversation play out naturally (I assume, anyway, since I've seen him comment on this before) is that he doesn't want to step in and derail conversations every time someone comes up with a theory. By "naturally," he just meant without his intervention. The only thing I can see being implied is that he thinks that it's an interesting idea. Maybe it's interesting because that's what he's planning to do, and it's cool to see how accurate people's predictions are (or aren't). Or maybe it's interesting because it's something that he never thought of and is not going to use, but he doesn't want to ruin fans' enjoyment of discussing it.

And yet when I am not despondent, I am overly optimistic... I feel as if I cannot reach the middle ground: it is either I am super enthusiast or completely discouraged. How does one ever make it there? How to balance? 

The truth is, I realize, within my almost three years on the 17th Shard, I have never read Brandon give any reason to be optimist about Adolin's future role within the story. I have seen him reassure those readers favoring currently underused characters such as Jasnah, Lift and Renarin in stating they would eventually have a very large role within the main story arc. I have seen him appear excited when talking about his characters... but I have never seen him do this for Adolin. He doesn't seem to have the same spark whenever he talks about him, the same energy, the same urge to write more. He doesn't spontaneously talk about Adolin, he isn't part of his readers expectations: he is just not one of the major one. He has a role, but it is a relatively small one. He is a foil. He is not a story a drive and whenever he ends up in the middle of a climax, we can assure it won't be about him: it will get transferred to someone else. He is just a means the author uses to create drama into his other characters, but he isn't a central character.

Hence I am forced to consider the idea Adolin might just be a Red Herring. 

There hasn't been many reasons to be optimistic about Adolin's future within this story. Ever since joining this forum, I have been constantly re-adjusting my expectations to the lowest, reducing them as doors kept on closing for this character. I have never had one single positive encouraging news. 

It may be he'll revive his Shardblade, but I fear this story arc demands a great deal more page time than Adolin is getting. Kaladin has needed 100K words to figure out his first oath. He has needed the same to figure out the second. Lift has just have a 40K words novel which ended with her figuring out her second oath. Shallan has had 100K words in order to recover her memory and progress to level 4. All of these characters have had a lot of help along the way.

Reviving a Blade does strike to me as a much bigger story arc than having your average Radiant figuring one single oath. It just isn't something we can glimpse from Dalinar's POV or which can be tossed towards the end of the book, cramped in between additional Kaladin flashbacks. Just the mechanism will require a great deal of explanation not to mention transforming Adolin into an Edgedancer will demand some serious writing. After having read Edgedancer, I am forced to admit Adolin as a lot of crumbs to eat if he is ever to join this order.

So yes, while it was foreshadowed, I am forced to consider the fact Adolin is just not central enough to earn this particular story arc. 

Obviously, Brandon enjoys the idea, it is a fun one, everyone love this theory, but it doesn't mean he will write it or if he writes it, it doesn't it will Adolin who'll earn this story arc. It might go to someone else, hence Adolin is a Red Herring.

[DSC01]

@maxal Well, I think that the happy medium is just accepting that your favorite character isn't as important you would like, but he is still very important. He isn't #1, but he's also not #937 (and it sure is looking like there's going to be a #937 in The Stormlight Archive, considering how expansive this story is). In fact, if you allow that all of the flashback characters get to share #1 (which isn't entirely accurate, since some seem more important than others, but just go with it for the sake of the argument), then Adolin is probably #2. 

Remember, Adolin was originally conceived as a character without any kind of important role. TWoK Prime--at least, in the chapters that I've read--shows him to be entirely a supporting character and a fairly uninteresting one, at that. He is only interesting there because we've all read the canonical version of Stormlight and can project the much more engaging personality that we know and love on the inferior version presented there. I think that Adolin surprised Brandon, both in the process of (re)writing the character and in fans' response to him. And Brandon does listen to his fans. @Lightflame must have fallen out of their chair when they read Edgedancer and saw that [Edgedancer spoiler, obviously]

the Shardfork that they asked about--probably facetiously--on a Reddit AMA actually showed up in the series.

It's not all that surprising to me that Brandon doesn't get really excited about a character that he only created to explain to Kaladin how a Shardbearer's life works, but it's equally unsurprising that he has wholeheartedly embraced the expansion of Adolin's role in the narrative.

Adolin's impact on the story affects all of the main characters. He helps Kaladin get over his hatred for lighteyes. Maybe not as much as Shallan does, but she wouldn't be able to accomplish that without Adolin to use as an example. His role in Dalinar's life is multifaceted and absolutely vital. His relationship with his brother is a very big deal, and Renarin being viable as a main character in the future is going to depend a lot on what happened between him and Adolin. To Shallan, who expected an unpleasant arranged marriage in her future, he is a dreamboat who she was shallowly attracted to at first, but he ended up being so much more. As for the others, well, Jasnah knows him well, and Szeth and Eshonai have both dueled with him. Lift, Shalash, and Taln have probably not yet met him, but even if he never makes any impression whatsoever in their lives, he still has affected 7 out of 10 flashback characters, usually in profound ways.

The bottom line is, if the first chapter of Oathbringer features someone finding out that Adolin killed Sadeas and immediately murdering him in retribution, that won't do a thing to diminish how important Adolin has been to the story thus far. Indeed, I think his name would still be coming up in book 10. But you and I both know that this is extremely unlikely to happen. So maybe he doesn't revive his Blade. Maybe his apparent potential to become a Radiant is a Red Herring. He's still absolutely vital to the story. Surely, there's room in this vast epic for an important character who is not a Radiant. He's certainly charmed us quite thoroughly so far without being one.

Don't worry about the obvious lack of pages to tell this story or that story. Did Adolin's 4-on-1 duel feel rushed or improperly developed to you? It didn't to me. The way Kaladin's POVs are written, you'd need 100,000 words to get there, but Adolin isn't Kaladin, and he got there much more economically, as far as word count goes. Plus, as the story progresses and revelations start to pour in, things that would have been dragged out over 200 pages in book 1 will happen in 2 pages. I mean, look at the ending of Edgedancer

(namely, the resolution, where Nalan realizes that he has been wrong)

. That could have been stretched out (if Kaladin was around it would have no doubt taken up half of a thousand-page volume), but it was instead resolved in about a page and a half. Adolin is still a major player, and I bet that we'll find that he has some real quality to deliver in his POVs, even if the quantity isn't there.

[Krandacth]

Following on from that, I'd like to point out that all the page time devoted to Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar progressing has been because they have been struggling internally to align with their spren in spite of their perceptions of themselves. Adolin will need to develop further, but less abrasively, as he doesn't have a spren guiding him, making his story more of a slow burn. Therefore we don't need his POV in the same way we need those three, at least not yet. Also, while we know Adolin has a more complex personality than what he expresses, he is definitely still an extrovert and wears his heart on his sleave to a significant extent. As such, and as has been shown throughout books one and two, we can see significant development of him through the POVs of others.

That he doesn't get significant POV in book 3/10 just means the climax of his story (if he gets one) is unlikely to happen in this book, but that's fine with me. I think we need to see more of more examples of the Nahel Bond before we could properly appreciate Adolin reviving his blade anyway!

[maxal]

9 hours ago, DSC01 said:

@maxal Well, I think that the happy medium is just accepting that your favorite character isn't as important you would like, but he is still very important. He isn't #1, but he's also not #937 (and it sure is looking like there's going to be a #937 in The Stormlight Archive, considering how expansive this story is). In fact, if you allow that all of the flashback characters get to share #1 (which isn't entirely accurate, since some seem more important than others, but just go with it for the sake of the argument), then Adolin is probably #2. 

Remember, Adolin was originally conceived as a character without any kind of important role. TWoK Prime--at least, in the chapters that I've read--shows him to be entirely a supporting character and a fairly uninteresting one, at that. He is only interesting there because we've all read the canonical version of Stormlight and can project the much more engaging personality that we know and love on the inferior version presented there. I think that Adolin surprised Brandon, both in the process of (re)writing the character and in fans' response to him. And Brandon does listen to his fans. @Lightflame must have fallen out of their chair when they read Edgedancer and saw that [Edgedancer spoiler, obviously]

  Reveal hidden contents

the Shardfork that they asked about--probably facetiously--on a Reddit AMA actually showed up in the series.

It's not all that surprising to me that Brandon doesn't get really excited about a character that he only created to explain to Kaladin how a Shardbearer's life works, but it's equally unsurprising that he has wholeheartedly embraced the expansion of Adolin's role in the narrative.

Tossing in one scene in order to please a cluster of fans is sweet, adorable, but it bears little impact on the overall story. Unfortunately, the readers wanting to read more of Adolin want to read... more of Adolin. Merely tossing in a few viewpoints chapters which are likely to be drowned into an epic climax involving Kaladin is not quite what they expected. Apart from that, there is the fact Brandon has never been enthusiast when it comes to Adolin... I understand he initially had other purposes when he created the character and, as a result, he came out expressing the author's first impressions of him: shallow, bland and flavorless. Why? Why did Adolin, by virtue of not being an introverted secretive character, have to be bland? This will the forever nagging nail within the coffin: why?

How aware is Brandon of the fan's response to Adolin's character? Honestly, I have no idea. I have seen Brandon respond extraordinarily positively to the few fans asking about Renarin. Oh you are a Renarin fan too? He has never said this to anyone asking about Adolin... I have seen him give away special WoB to encourage those readers to keep on staying involve within the series even if Renarin's role currently is, very small. I have seen him thank his readers and feeling honored when readers come forth and say Kaladin is an inspiration or how they relate to him because of the depression angle. I have seen him respond in amazing positiveness and excitement over readers sending him essays on Renarin, but try talking to him about Adolin and he closes up like an oyster merely stating he is pleased with is surprise character. 

He has never said anything kind, comprehensive to any of his fans who might have asked about Adolin and looking through our long list of WoB: there were several ones who did which we are aware of. To me, it feels he is just not interested in talking about the character and, based on this terrible WoB he gave us, he just doesn't find Adolin all that interesting. The fan's reaction must thus either bother him and puzzle him: why Adolin? Why enjoy Adolin when you have Renarin and Kaladin right next to him? I don't know if these are this thoughts, but I am forced to consider they might be it.

Brandon is just not going to toss in something good to the Adolin fans and no amount of jesting is going to change his mind on the character. He is giving additional flashbacks scenes to the Kaladin fans (because he couldn't resist, just as he couldn't resist writing a Lift novella), but he will never write this one scene where Adolin won his Shardblade (because it is self-explanatory, it doesn't need to be written out, the readers can guess and it would require focusing on Adolin) . He is going to fleshed out in large details Kaladin's relationship with Tarah, when it could have been summarized within the main narrative through other means, but he is never going to fully explained the extend of Adolin's train wrecked love life. We are never finding out what truly happened there.

As thus, Adolin will never feel like a developed character. He will always remain the idea of a character who could have been great, but was never completed mostly because the author didn't see any interest in closing the circle with him. It isn't about being important or not anymore, it is about having a character being tosses at us while knowing we never going to dig deep enough on thing with him to have any feeling of satisfaction. 

9 hours ago, DSC01 said:

Adolin's impact on the story affects all of the main characters. He helps Kaladin get over his hatred for lighteyes. Maybe not as much as Shallan does, but she wouldn't be able to accomplish that without Adolin to use as an example. His role in Dalinar's life is multifaceted and absolutely vital. His relationship with his brother is a very big deal, and Renarin being viable as a main character in the future is going to depend a lot on what happened between him and Adolin. To Shallan, who expected an unpleasant arranged marriage in her future, he is a dreamboat who she was shallowly attracted to at first, but he ended up being so much more. As for the others, well, Jasnah knows him well, and Szeth and Eshonai have both dueled with him. Lift, Shalash, and Taln have probably not yet met him, but even if he never makes any impression whatsoever in their lives, he still has affected 7 out of 10 flashback characters, usually in profound ways.

The bottom line is, if the first chapter of Oathbringer features someone finding out that Adolin killed Sadeas and immediately murdering him in retribution, that won't do a thing to diminish how important Adolin has been to the story thus far. Indeed, I think his name would still be coming up in book 10. But you and I both know that this is extremely unlikely to happen. So maybe he doesn't revive his Blade. Maybe his apparent potential to become a Radiant is a Red Herring. He's still absolutely vital to the story. Surely, there's room in this vast epic for an important character who is not a Radiant. He's certainly charmed us quite thoroughly so far without being one.

Don't worry about the obvious lack of pages to tell this story or that story. Did Adolin's 4-on-1 duel feel rushed or improperly developed to you? It didn't to me. The way Kaladin's POVs are written, you'd need 100,000 words to get there, but Adolin isn't Kaladin, and he got there much more economically, as far as word count goes. Plus, as the story progresses and revelations start to pour in, things that would have been dragged out over 200 pages in book 1 will happen in 2 pages. I mean, look at the ending of Edgedancer

  Reveal hidden contents

(namely, the resolution, where Nalan realizes that he has been wrong)

. That could have been stretched out (if Kaladin was around it would have no doubt taken up half of a thousand-page volume), but it was instead resolved in about a page and a half. Adolin is still a major player, and I bet that we'll find that he has some real quality to deliver in his POVs, even if the quantity isn't there.

The 4 on 1 duel was one of my favorite scenes, but if you ask me, I thought the focus changed too rapidly towards Kaladin and, in the end, we never had closure on Adolin with this story arc. He was betrayed by his friends, they agreed to team up to kill him and this never gets to be further explained in the story? We never get to read Adolin's thoughts over such a painful and heartbreaking betrayal? Kaladin was betrayed by people whom had every reason to betray him and it was the focus of hundred of pages of inner monologue, but we don't even get one POV on Adolin's feelings afterwards?

As I said, it isn't about being important or not, it is about bringing forth satisfying characters and Adolin just never gets the page time he needs to bring it to the readers. The loop is never closed on him and I doubt Brandon is going to ever dig there with him. In fact, I doubt he is ever going to dig into anything with him: he has made matters rather clear. Yes Adolin lost his mother and while the same event was traumatic to Lift, to Renarin, to Shallan, it left absolutely no impact whatsoever on him. Yes, Adolin was forced to step up and take care of his father after he depressed following Gavilar's death, giving away the life he wanted to be what he felt his father needed even though he hated it (a duelist versus a soldier), but it left absolutely no impact on him whatsoever. I just feel the author tosses in so many loose ends with the character which I initially thought was great as I figured we would dig into those, eventually, but I am once again forced to admit Brandon has absolutely no commitment to further developing Adolin in ways other than his usefulness to his other characters.

In other words, Adolin's story arc, if we can call it such, has never been about him and I have no doubt his upcoming, very short, story arc won't be about him too. It will be about Dalinar, about Renarin, about Kaladin, about Shallan or all of them grouped together, but it will not be about him and thus is, to my sense, the tragedy of SA. 

So yes, to get bag to our main discussion, I am slowly thinking Adolin's potential as a Radiant merely was a Red Herring all along. He can't never learn to be the equivalent of benevolent Lift, even if he won't step away from injustice, even if he does act whenever he is faced with it: it is just not enough to ever be called an Edgedancer. The seed is there, but without water, it will never grow and this water has been all poured onto the other characters: only drops are left for him. It will never be enough. It is thus Adolin's mostly likely story arc is to suffer close to no consequences for having murdered Sadeas (we can toss all of our theories into the garbage can: Brandon is not going there. The fact he has removed all of Adolin's POV into the next book indicates he isn't going to make him feel anything), in his little page time, he feel guilty, under-valued because he isn't a Radiant, but he will have a moment of revelation, probably after doing something boring such as walking around where he'll realize he can still be useful as a Shardbearer. The end. We'll keep on seeing his perspective onto the Radiants, but quite frankly, I do not find this very interesting to read, but YMMV.

It might be satisfying to several readers, but I have spend too much time building up great story arcs for the character to even begin to feel satisfy with this one. Hence I have to come to terms with the fact that, providing I do read the next book, it will focus largely on Kaladin, once again, and Adolin will be a name I will get to read from times to times which will slowly get less and less page time up until he either dies or gets removed all together from the story. 

Thus, the Blade Revival story arc is dead. I don't want to read it if it is going to drowned in the middle of the story, not even being the focus of one single part. 

6 hours ago, Krandacth said:

Following on from that, I'd like to point out that all the page time devoted to Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar progressing has been because they have been struggling internally to align with their spren in spite of their perceptions of themselves. Adolin will need to develop further, but less abrasively, as he doesn't have a spren guiding him, making his story more of a slow burn. Therefore we don't need his POV in the same way we need those three, at least not yet. Also, while we know Adolin has a more complex personality than what he expresses, he is definitely still an extrovert and wears his heart on his sleave to a significant extent. As such, and as has been shown throughout books one and two, we can see significant development of him through the POVs of others.

That he doesn't get significant POV in book 3/10 just means the climax of his story (if he gets one) is unlikely to happen in this book, but that's fine with me. I think we need to see more of more examples of the Nahel Bond before we could properly appreciate Adolin reviving his blade anyway!

If he gets ones. This is the key: Adolin is never getting a climax scene: Brandonhas confirmed Adolin was never getting the focus.  Kaladin has had 3 already, but Adolin will not even have one throughout the first arc. As for the second one, we can be 100% assured he isn't playing a role in it.

For the rest, I think, to become a Radiant, Adolin will need to develop much more abrasively than the other characters because he has no guidance, because Edgedancer is very far from who he is, because he wasn't born one, because he has a great deal lot of stuff to overcome to even begin to read as one. Just look at the 2nd oath: this will take a great deal lot of work for Adolin to ever live by it. To me, this transformation by far trumps out Kaladin merely figuring out he really wants to protect people: we already knew that on page 1 of book 1. 

Also, being an extroverted does not mean you need no viewpoint. On the contrary, extroverted are often taken for who they are not because they express so much and people tend to see them as per what they say and not what they truly are. There is a very strong conflict going on here which is much deeper than Kaladin just hating lighteyes, but I fear very few people see it in this way, the author included.

[king of nowhere]

stay strong, maxal. I also liked adolin a lot, but I'm sure the SA will be great anyway, and adolin will be a good secondary character anyway. For me it is worse, because Lift is my most disliked sanderson main character of all, and we know she will be very important. I'd be all in favor of tossing lift out of a window and putting adolin in her place. that's not happening, and i'm sure sanderson knows what he's doing anyway. heck, i haven't gotten my copy of AU yet (so no spoilers), so who knows, maybe lift get some character development in the right direction. you know, stop being mean to her spren for no reason, stops putting her life and that of those close to her in danger just because she finds it fun and she's too immature to stop five seconds to think of the risk vs reward, starts to accept information from her spren instead of shutting him every time he tries to explain her how to use her powers and then still finding out how to use those powers just because she's a protagonist edging close to mary sue land. Eh, better i stop there, before i go full rant mode. I make you a proposal, maxal: you trust brandon over adolin and i trust him over lift. not trusting that the story will go where we hope it will go, but that the story will still be a good story.

Also, you can take the fact that adolin has no inner conflict as a sign of strenght. When kaladin was betrayed, he spent hundreds of pages anguishing over it. When adolin was betrayed, he kept going. not everyone who takes a metaphorical punch need to spend hundreds of pages suffering; sometimes, he just gets up, dust himself, and go back doing what he was doing. adolin doesn't need to appear on screen to be badchull. the more they try to hide him, and the more he shines for it.

 

EDIT: if you want, you can open a thread where you go on about how bad it is that adolin won't get a bigger part in the story, and confine your ranting there. I will most certainly do so with lift, after i read arcanum unbounded. Afterwards, you could just link that thread when you feel the need to

Last, I wouldn't give up on hope that adolin will become radiant. renarin did, and he had much less screen time.

Edited November 26, 2016 by king of nowhere

[DSC01]

@king of nowhere Read Edgedancer and let me know how you feel about all that stuff you don't like about Lift afterwards. I won't say more than that, since this isn't the Edgedancer spoiler board. And, just to be clear, I do not mean to imply anything other than that one might feel differently about any character after reading a novella devoted to them, and I'm interested to see if any of these complaints change. If you haven't read it yet, there is nothing in what I said that should be taken to be an implied spoiler.

[maxal]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

stay strong, maxal. I also liked adolin a lot, but I'm sure the SA will be great anyway, and adolin will be a good secondary character anyway. For me it is worse, because Lift is my most disliked sanderson main character of all, and we know she will be very important. I'd be all in favor of tossing lift out of a window and putting adolin in her place. that's not happening, and i'm sure sanderson knows what he's doing anyway. heck, i haven't gotten my copy of AU yet (so no spoilers), so who knows, maybe lift get some character development in the right direction. you know, stop being mean to her spren for no reason, stops putting her life and that of those close to her in danger just because she finds it fun and she's too immature to stop five seconds to think of the risk vs reward, starts to accept information from her spren instead of shutting him every time he tries to explain her how to use her powers and then still finding out how to use those powers just because she's a protagonist edging close to mary sue land. Eh, better i stop there, before i go full rant mode. I make you a proposal, maxal: you trust brandon over adolin and i trust him over lift. not trusting that the story will go where we hope it will go, but that the story will still be a good story.

Also, you can take the fact that adolin has no inner conflict as a sign of strenght. When kaladin was betrayed, he spent hundreds of pages anguishing over it. When adolin was betrayed, he kept going. not everyone who takes a metaphorical punch need to spend hundreds of pages suffering; sometimes, he just gets up, dust himself, and go back doing what he was doing. adolin doesn't need to appear on screen to be badchull. the more they try to hide him, and the more he shines for it.

 

EDIT: if you want, you can open a thread where you go on about how bad it is that adolin won't get a bigger part in the story, and confine your ranting there. I will most certainly do so with lift, after i read arcanum unbounded. Afterwards, you could just link that thread when you feel the need to

Last, I wouldn't give up on hope that adolin will become radiant. renarin did, and he had much less screen time.

 You made me laugh. I always love to read a good rant even if I do not always agree: I certainly understand the need to rant. Nobody ever needs to worry about my personal reaction towards a rant 

In the case of Lift, I will echo DCS01 and I'll strongly suggest you read the novella. If you still feel negatively about the character after it, well then it happens: there are characters we just don't connect with. I for one wasn't initially convinced about Lift as a main protagonist: I remember talking about it in another thread. I loved Edgedancer and considering how disappointed I currently am with the whole "Adolin deal", I'll say I wasn't exactly in my best predisposition to enjoy it, but I did. Perhaps because I had no expectations whatsoever for it. I will be posting my personal review of the book later today in the spoiler board.

As for Adolin, the problem is I do not believe one second he has no inner conflict: his viewpoints indicate he does. It is just not explored within the story because Adolin isn't a focus character. Him becoming a Radiant has always been my preferred story arc, but I even I have to admit, given the additional clues we have from Edgedancer, I have to admit it is a hard fit. I mean, if I, who have been advocating for the last 2 years Adolin was the perfect fit for the Edgedancer order, I who has carried this theory on the top of my arms, I who has made it popular in a time when nobody was talking about it, well I, I now have trouble seeing it. My perception of the order has truly changed after reading the novella which means the "Blade revival" story arc is even less probable than it was, even without considering Adolin's new reduced role within the story.

As for Renarin, he will become a major, MAJOR character in the second arc. Brandon also seem to have a real fondness for him, whenever he speaks of him, you can see/hear it. He has also been planned as the "important brother" from the start. The only reason he doesn't have much screen time merely because Brandon feels he will need to write a lot of pages on him, once he starts, and he can't do that now because it would clog the story.

Making a thread just to rant on Adolin not having enough page time? In my almost three years on the 17Shard, I have never ever created a thread to talk about Adolin. Amazing huh? It is true though. I did not want to annoy everyone with my obvious preferences and I felt adding more threads would not have been well received.

The reason I am giving up hope merely is because the author has never given me one reason to keep it up. After three years of carrying those theories over me without getting one single good news with respect to Adolin's future development, I am starting to falter. I mean, there is only so much work one can trust into a doomed cause. The amount of theory making I have written on Adolin is quite frankly astronomic: more than one Stormlight Archive volume, at the very least. It is just unbelievable I have written so much on such an impossible cause to defend, one I have absolutely no power nor agency to change, one I am nearly a 100% convinced I will never get satisfaction reading.

I am forced to consider my entire implication within the fandom was all for nothing. I have chosen the wrong horse to bet on, now I am paying the price. Can I still love the series as much as I did now I know this? I can't say, I truly can't.

Three years later and it all comes down to this. Is this what happened to those who ended leaving the fandom?

[manavortex]

Quote

After three years of carrying those theories over me without getting one single good news with respect to Adolin's future development, I am starting to falter. I mean, there is only so much work one can trust into a doomed cause. The amount of theory making I have written on Adolin is quite frankly astronomic: more than one Stormlight Archive volume, at the very least. It is just unbelievable I have written so much on such an impossible cause to defend, one I have absolutely no power nor agency to change, one I am nearly a 100% convinced I will never get satisfaction reading.

It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit.  Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves.  They can brace a broken soul.

Have faith. You will either be right, or gain power.

[DSC01]

@maxal I just realized why exactly I am vexed by your stance on Adolin and feel so bad about how disappointed you are in his arc: I don't really care that much about any individual character. Who cares if Brandon has determined that Kaladin or Dalinar or Renarin or Lift is the most important character? Who cares if anyone, personally, hates one or all of those characters?

Stormlight is a vast tapestry of hundreds of characters, and the ultimate significance of even the most notable one is hardly relevant to the overall plan, especially if one looks at things in the context of the overarching Cosmere narrative. By the time the final Mistborn series is released (probably 40 years from now, and I hope that we're all lucky enough to live that long, and Brandon is too), all of the Stormlight characters will probably be irrelevant.

The story itself is what has me hooked. If I happen to really like a character more than the author himself seems to, well, they were always going to be dead (or turned into an immortal being much different from the original character) long before we got to the end, anyway. So who cares? The plot itself is what has me hooked, and I don't really care which characters advance it, so long as it remains an incredibly enjoyable read. A part of me just can't understand why anyone would get so upset over the arc of one character, when they couldn't possibly be all that important, no matter what. Every single Stormlight book could be mostly about Adolin, and it still wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Cosmere as a whole.

I think that I am simply incredulous: how can anyone (no just you, so please don't be offended) care so much about one man, when so much more is going on?

[maxal]

5 hours ago, DSC01 said:

@maxal I just realized why exactly I am vexed by your stance on Adolin and feel so bad about how disappointed you are in his arc: I don't really care that much about any individual character. Who cares if Brandon has determined that Kaladin or Dalinar or Renarin or Lift is the most important character? Who cares if anyone, personally, hates one or all of those characters?

Stormlight is a vast tapestry of hundreds of characters, and the ultimate significance of even the most notable one is hardly relevant to the overall plan, especially if one looks at things in the context of the overarching Cosmere narrative. By the time the final Mistborn series is released (probably 40 years from now, and I hope that we're all lucky enough to live that long, and Brandon is too), all of the Stormlight characters will probably be irrelevant.

The story itself is what has me hooked. If I happen to really like a character more than the author himself seems to, well, they were always going to be dead (or turned into an immortal being much different from the original character) long before we got to the end, anyway. So who cares? The plot itself is what has me hooked, and I don't really care which characters advance it, so long as it remains an incredibly enjoyable read. A part of me just can't understand why anyone would get so upset over the arc of one character, when they couldn't possibly be all that important, no matter what. Every single Stormlight book could be mostly about Adolin, and it still wouldn't be that big of a deal for the Cosmere as a whole.

I think that I am simply incredulous: how can anyone (no just you, so please don't be offended) care so much about one man, when so much more is going on?

The answer to this one, I believes, comes from which kind of reader we each are, taken individually. For my part, there are stories where I am in it for the overall plot, stories where I do not have a defined favorite character. WoT was such a story for me. However, I remain, first and foremost, a character reader: character development tends to be what drags me into stories more than the main narrative. In other words, I tend to be more interested into reading what happens to the characters evolving into one specific world more than what happens to said world.

It is why I do not care so much about the Cosmere. It is just one giant world. I care about the people in it, how they are dealing with whatever life is throwing at them, but how each world interacts one with another? It is highly secondary in my reading which is why you never see me complains books are too light in Cosmere revelation or write theories on the matter  I have seen other readers being disappointed by this and while I couldn't be bothered less by it, I understand that if those elements are what dragged this specific reader into this world/fandom, then not getting satisfaction in a given story can be disheartening. You will also never see me get excited over Hoid as I just find him a mere plot device, not someone of great interest, not to me, as a reader.

It is thus characters are my main reason of reading, they are the only reason I have seek the fandom to begin with. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't be here. I would just read the story, patiently wait for the next book, read it and move onto another series. I wouldn't feel the impulse to discuss it because, while I would still enjoy the story, I wouldn't have enough interest to spend time writing about it. Among those characters, Adolin ended being the one I was mostly drawn to for a list of various reasons I have explained often enough. I will not repeat them here unless someone actually wants to hear them. He thus became my main point of interest and, as a result, my most anticipated read over the next book. 

I have explained how my current disappointment over his limited story arc comes largely from the fact my expectations were rather different. I never expected Brandon would give so little page time to Adolin following the events of WoR and no matter what master he might have, this is a serious disappointment, just as not seeing enough Cosmere stuff in SoS was a disappointment to other readers. 

In the end it all comes back as to why we are here. Why are we posting? Why are we reading those posts? I sincerely believe there are as many reasons as there are posters, but for my part, I am here because I got hooked to one particular story arc which interested me to the point where I saw the interest to write so much about it. Seeing it will unlikely pan out as I expected, worst it will most likely beat my worst expectations, I have come to question what the heck I am doing here. What was it all for?

What have I done? What did I expect? Why do I feel it was all for nothing? And why do I keep coming back? Can't I just let it go, toss it away? What is left after one has spend so much time talking about one prospective story arc once it has become clear none of it would happen? Other characters, other theories? I am just not hooked to any of the other which doesn't mean I do not appreciate reading them, it merely means I feel no impulse to discuss them.

Have I thus reached the end of my involvement into this fandom? These are the questions I am left with and sadly, character readers who focus on one character usually ends up leaving fandom when the story trumps their expectations. I assume it happens in all fandom.

[The Ninja Yodeler]

@kingofnowhere Well,if you're gonna drop Lift out a window, you'd better make sure its straight down, because any angle on that fall and she will just use her awesomeness to remove her friction when she hits the ground and slip and slide her way into stardom! Lol

But seriously, Im kinda inbetween you and Maxal on this point. Hoid is what drew me into the Cosmere in the first place, but Im not miffed that he barely has had any role whatsoever in almost every story so far. If a character I like starts getting pushed to the back burner, I will feel perturbed for a minute, but then I start wondering what character will be getting more page time, or if it will be someone all new getting introduced, like Lift. 

And speaking of Lift, I absolutely love her attitude towards everything. I mean yea shes a child, so taking others safety into consideration probably isnt topping her list of worries. But she obviously knows Wyndell isnt a voidbringer. She just likes screwing with him, because she gets enjoyment out of vexing him. Her logic cracks me up. But in the end, she shows she does care about people, or else she would have just left Gawx behind to die and kept running from Nale. She would never have risked her life to save him if she didnt care. Yes it was after the fact that it hit her that Gawx wouldnt have been in this situation if it wasnt for her, but she does realize it in the end.

Really, I just want to see her grow and become a bada## Edgedancer. She has wit, she has brains, and she uses her caloric intake to fuel her powers. Wait until she realizes that she can draw in stormlight instead of just "burning" her fat stores for it.

In conclusion, I guess what Im saying is that I love every toon in the Cosmere. Even Sadeas, although I wanted his demise to come so badly I could taste copper on my tongue lol. Really, if the story starts to lag, then I focus on the characters. If the characters get a bit boring, I focus on the overall story. If they both start to slip, well then thats when I stop caring and just out the book down.

Edited November 27, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler
Typo

[king of nowhere]

22 minutes ago, The Ninja Yodeler said:

@kingofnowhere Well,if you're gonna drop Lift out a window, you'd better make sure its straight down, because any angle on that fall and she will just use her awesomeness to remove her friction when she hits the ground and slip and slide her way itso stardom! Lol

Even if it was a perfectly vertical drop, stormligh would allow her to survive the fall.

But that's fully intentional. She's a kid, and she's kindhearted, I would not want to kill her. Just knock some sense in her head

[Spoolofwhool]

30 minutes ago, The Ninja Yodeler said:

@kingofnowhere Well,if you're gonna drop Lift out a window, you'd better make sure its straight down, because any angle on that fall and she will just use her awesomeness to remove her friction when she hits the ground and slip and slide her way into stardom! Lol

That's not true. Friction, or lack thereof, would have nothing to do with limiting the fall damage she takes. If she lands on the angled surface, she would still take damage as a result of the vector of movement parallel to the surface's normal. Friction would just stop her from sliding forward and losing the vector of motion perpendicular to the fall damage one. Stormlight augmentation is what would save her in this case. 

[The Ninja Yodeler]

4 hours ago, maxal said:

 

 

23 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

Even if it was a perfectly vertical drop, stormligh would allow her to survive the fall.

But that's fully intentional. She's a kid, and she's kindhearted, I would not want to kill her. Just knock some sense in her head

Lol yeah, she would heal. Still dont think it'd knock sense into that kids head. I mean Ive fallen from some pretty good heights, and it never stopped me from climbing higher, even without her awesomeness lol.

Really, I think I like lift because Wyndell is so mysterious to me right now, and we need Lifts story to crack that mystery open.

[The Ninja Yodeler]

14 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

That's not true. Friction, or lack thereof, would have nothing to do with limiting the fall damage she takes. If she lands on the angled surface, she would still take damage as a result of the vector of movement parallel to the surface's normal. Friction would just stop her from sliding forward and losing the vector of motion perpendicular to the fall damage one. Stormlight augmentation is what would save her in this case. 

Oh I wasnt saying she wouldnt take damage from the impact, just that the forward momentum combined with her frictionless abilities would mitigate it. If only a bit. She would still need to heal, just not as much. And she wouldnt have to heal to be able to escape, shed just use that forward momentum to slide away as she heals.

Edited November 27, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler
Typo

[Spoolofwhool]

Just now, The Ninja Yodeler said:

Oh I wasnt saying she wouldnt take damage from the impact, just that the foheald momentum combined with her frictionless abilities would mitigate it. If only a bit. She would still need to heal, just not as much. And she wouldnt have to heal to be able to escape, shed just use that forward momentum to slide away as she heals.

I see, true, it would mitigate damage from the fall since forward movement would usually be fairly stopped from the landing and result in equivalent damage.

[Kaladin Zahel]

I just stumbled on this thread via google and realize this is probably going to be a wasted response.

Im doing my 3rd reading of SA and taking notes at things that interest me. I stumbled upon the oddity with Adolin's Shardblade(SB) and that's how I wound up her.

 

I too believe Adolin has already begun reviving his Shardblade as well as producing a limited Nahel bond with it. There is am interesting scene in WoR where Adolin is practicing throwing his SB. He fails to do it correctly until 2 things occur. One, he remembers Zahel's instruction of "picturing what he needed it to do" - oddly reminiscent of awakening. And two, "Adolin let out the breath he had been holding" which is very reminiscent to Shallan's and Kaladin's experience when subconsciously using Stormlight.

 

As for an earlier mention in this thread about SB revival requiring the same KR: Roshar's(or at least Vorin's) afterlife is a fight for the Tranquiline Halls which Odium threw its denizens out of. So to me it's very possible that all SA humans are reincarnated.

It seems that all of Sanderson's works have direct links between perceived gods and the magic users who emulate them. So if the Heralds reincarnate after being tortured after each desolation, then it stands to reason that humans and KRs would undergo at least similar situations.

Another grasp at this logic is that Talanel tells the Alethi that 'they' will have forgotten many things since the last desolation. You can take that as generalized or direct but it adds to the possibility.