Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[Bugsy he/him]

Just now, The Young Bard said:

Wait, aren't you a new player? So, you're incriminating yourself here a little...

Ehh. Sort of. This is my 5th game. By "new player", I meant 1st game people who didn't really know how everything worked and wanted someone to help them out. I suppose it could apply to me, though

[Young Bard he/him]

1 minute ago, Bugsy6912 said:

Ehh. Sort of. This is my 5th game. By "new player", I meant 1st game people who didn't really know how everything worked and wanted someone to help them out. I suppose it could apply to me, though

Oh. I thought this was your first. My mistake. So does that mean it's just Jaime and Rubik that are new?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

My thoughts on why Fain only Corrupted 1 player is that either it was a fairly new player that wanted some advice early, or, the more likely option in my mind, it's a more experienced player that decided to Corrupt 1 player early so that they could work together to get information about the rest of the players and then Fain won't use an Action and risk outing himself until more information roles are dead and his Corruptions can hit more desirable targets while there's not as many players left. It's just the way that I personally would do it, so I can't say if that is the case or not.

At this point, I'd like to remind everyone that I cannot be Fain or Corrupted(yet, at least) because I was Detained by Conquestor(though it was Aman who told me about it) on Day/Night 1.  

Oh, and Aman is now a suspect for Fain/DF again, since...he's not actually a Whitecloak apparently. :/ He's actually in a perfect position if he is Fain, since he's not a target to the eliminators since he's only focusing on finding Fain. So I'm much more worried about him now.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Wait this makes no sense. I will fully explain myself since there is no point in hiding it. 

I am Ta'veren. N3 I redirected Conquestor to Seonid, and was told by Gamma and confirmed that this was successful. I was trying to test his role. In the rule clarifications on D1 it clearly states that Whitwcloaks are immune to Ta'veren.... And gamma also confirmed that my redirect was still successful... I was also under the impression that if there was no action to redirect I would be told that my action was unsuccessful. Therefore making it impossible for Conquestor to be a Whitwcloak because they are supposed to be immune and Seonid died, so he obviously wasn't detained. So please for the sake of my sanity, what did I miss here. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Young Bard he/him]

18 minutes ago, jaimeleecee said:

Wait this makes no sense. I will fully explain myself since there is no point in hiding it. 

I am Ta'veren. N3 I redirected Conquestor to Seonid, and was told by Gamma and confirmed that this was successful. I was trying to test his role. In the rule clarifications on D1 it clearly states that Whitwcloaks are immune to Ta'veren.... And gamma also confirmed that my redirect was still successful... I was also under the impression that if there was no action to redirect I would be told that my action was unsuccessful. Therefore making it impossible for Conquestor to be a Whitwcloak because they are supposed to be immune and Seonid died, so he obviously wasn't detained. So please for the sake of my sanity, what did I miss here. 

Either you're lying, or there's a secret role that changes the appearance of role/alignment upon death. Honestly, the former is about 50 times more likely from our standpoint right now.

[Haelbarde he/him]

30 minutes ago, jaimeleecee said:

Wait this makes no sense. I will fully explain myself since there is no point in hiding it. 

I am Ta'veren. N3 I redirected Conquestor to Seonid, and was told by Gamma and confirmed that this was successful. I was trying to test his role. In the rule clarifications on D1 it clearly states that Whitwcloaks are immune to Ta'veren.... And gamma also confirmed that my redirect was still successful... I was also under the impression that if there was no action to redirect I would be told that my action was unsuccessful. Therefore making it impossible for Conquestor to be a Whitwcloak because they are supposed to be immune and Seonid died, so he obviously wasn't detained. So please for the sake of my sanity, what did I miss here. 

Interesting. I had wondered if that's what you'd meant from what you said last cycle. It was one of the thoughts I had anyway. For the moment, I think, I'm willing to accept that, I think. And I believe I had an answer to your question - I asked Gamma a few questions after rollover, to try and make sense of things.

I felt like Gamma had said before that if a Ta'veren redirects someone who didn't put in any orders would be told that their redirect failed. I double checked with Gamma, and he actually said that the redirect would be successful, just not very effectual. I think the idea that the redirect failing if the player didn't put in actions actually came from Bard, in this post, which was never corrected. Which then actually begs the question of why Nyali's action failed...

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Well that explains it then. Burn me. 

Sorry guys, I was certain... If I wasn't I wouldn't have claimed for basically everyone or put my neck on the line like that... 

[Young Bard he/him]

5 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

I felt like Gamma had said before that if a Ta'veren redirects someone who didn't put in any orders would be told that their redirect failed. I double checked with Gamma, and he actually said that the redirect would be successful, just not very effectual. I think the idea that the redirect failing if the player didn't put in actions actually came from Bard, in this post, which was never corrected. Which then actually begs the question of why Nyali's action failed...

Gamma, can you confirm this?

If that's true, then I don't know why my action failed. I'll check with Gamma if there's anything he forgot to tell me about (like being detained).

[STINK he/him]

I guess this is another reason to enjoy having a day role.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Just now, The Young Bard said:

If that's true, then I don't know why my action failed. I'll check with Gamma if there's anything he forgot to tell me about (like being detained).

I've also had a look at that too. There are 3 ways, that I can see, which could do it - a channeller blocked Nyali, a channeller mask of mirrors'd you, Bard, or you are lying about getting detained (or I guess Gamma didn't notify you). I have asked Gamma if he can confirm if Nyali's action failed because of you putting in an action, just to make sure the ruling hasn't changed between now and then, or something.

[Young Bard he/him]

4 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

I've also had a look at that too. There are 3 ways, that I can see, which could do it - a channeller blocked Nyali, a channeller mask of mirrors'd you, Bard, or you are lying about getting detained (or I guess Gamma didn't notify you). I have asked Gamma if he can confirm if Nyali's action failed because of you putting in an action, just to make sure the ruling hasn't changed between now and then, or something.

@Araris Valerian Did you target me or Nyali night one?

Also, why would I lie about getting detained? If anything, that would have cleared me of Fain that night.

[Haelbarde he/him]

5 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

@Araris Valerian Did you target me or Nyali night one?

Also, why would I lie about getting detained? If anything, that would have cleared me of Fain that night.

From memory, there was the idea of Gunshy having detained one of his allies N1, which you could have wanted to disassociated yourself with. Full disclosure - I would lean towards you being village as a general rule, but I don't want to ignore the fact that I don't think you have been "cleared" like others can be.

Edit: And I've also PM'd Araris asking him that too  

Edited June 16, 2016 by Haelbarde

[jaimeleecee she/her]

I feel awful.. Sorry Conq..

I just saw what Lopen posted after I went to bed.. if I had seen it it probably would have prompted me to ask Gamma about whether or not no action would actually come up unsuccessful because that would be the only reason why I was wrong. 

@HaelbardeThanks for finding that post from Bard, I'm glad it wasn't me just assuming that that's how it worked, I still feel pretty darn stupid right now though.  

[Young Bard he/him]

Gamma, if you made a mistake with what happened to the action Night 1 with Nyali, can you PM Joe about it or mention it in the thread? I'm trying to make sense of what's going on here.

[Hellscythe he/him]

3 hours ago, jaimeleecee said:

I feel awful.. Sorry Conq..

I just saw what Lopen posted after I went to bed.. if I had seen it it probably would have prompted me to ask Gamma about whether or not no action would actually come up unsuccessful because that would be the only reason why I was wrong. 

@HaelbardeThanks for finding that post from Bard, I'm glad it wasn't me just assuming that that's how it worked, I still feel pretty darn stupid right now though.  

No more trust.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

@Hellscythe That's a little harsh.. I mean I get not being able to be sure, but honestly.. Do you think I would be so stupid to make up such an obvious lie.  

I thought I was catching Conq in a lie, a last ditched effort to save himself from lynching that I could disprove with solid evidence.  Clearly I was wrong, but not because I was lying, but because I thought my action being successful meant that what he was saying was completely impossible.  If he was indeed lying why would I keep information like that to myself?  I had to basically claim to everyone in order to justify why I was certain.  Would I do that just to put a huge target on my back? I would be basically guaranteeing my death to lie about something like that. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

For clarification's sake for the ta'veren role, if a player gets targeted who didn't perform an action, the redirect is still successful, it just doesn't do anything.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Sigh.. logically it makes sense, but super easy to assume that no action would mean yours failed..

troll GM getting me killed 

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

out of curiosity, who suspects me right now?

[Bugsy he/him]

I do, sort of. Mainly for meta reasons, but there's not much previous playstyle I can build suspicions from. You're sort of an wildcard in this game, since it's your first. That makes me a bit paranoid about you

[Dustbringer12 he/him]

oh. ok then.  anyone else?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Honestly, I still think Jaime is more likely village, even with this happening. I think this clears her of being Fain as well. I mean, there's also the fact that apparently she's Ta'veren and the Mutineers had one, so it's more likely she's village based on role as well.

Rubiks, I suspect you a bit. I was gonna lynch you last Day Turn after all.  I don't suspect you a lot, but I'm having trouble getting any really good suspicions at this point.

I think Hellscythe is my top suspicion at the moment, although Bard seems to really trust him for some reason. Still, I don't have a reason to trust him and I've been getting more of an eliminator vibe from him pretty much throughout the game.

[Master Elodin]

2 minutes ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Honestly, I still think Jaime is more likely village, even with this happening. I think this clears her of being Fain as well. I mean, there's also the fact that apparently she's Ta'veren and the Mutineers had one, so it's more likely she's village based on role as well.

Rubiks, I suspect you a bit. I was gonna lynch you last Day Turn after all.  I don't suspect you a lot, but I'm having trouble getting any really good suspicions at this point.

I think Hellscythe is my top suspicion at the moment, although Bard seems to really trust him for some reason. Still, I don't have a reason to trust him and I've been getting more of an eliminator vibe from him pretty much throughout the game.

I agree about Jaime being village, but I feel that it could be a very risky gambit by her, knowing that we would act like this. Most likely we will keep her alive and the only thing that will be gained from this will be chaos. I'm not sure if she's experienced enough to do that though..

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Gamma, do Warders have to have a Channeler and vice versa?

[Bugsy he/him]

Just some forward warning, I'm leaving for a 2 week vacation to Europe on Saturday. I'll try and check on whenever I can get wifi, but can't really promise anything.