Trell in white sands

[Dragon314 he/him]

All forums are becoming a Who Is Trell forum. Now- I realize it could be coincidence. But, well,

 

 

Kenton felt drained--he nearly collapsed from fatigue as he reached out to a nearby wall for support.  He waited a few moments, trying to rally his strength.  His body immediately began to sweat now that the drain on its water had been removed.  Kenton slumped back against the wall with a sigh, pulling out his qido and taking a huge gulp--one he nearly choked on, he was breathing so deeply.

Finally he opened his eyes, looking at the amazed foreman who was still kneeling on the ground before him.  “What is your name, man?” Kenton whispered.

“Trell, sir.”

“All right, Trell,” Kenton said.  “Next time you have a problem like this, send for a sand master immediately.  Understand?”

“Yes, My Lord,” the man said, confusion in his eyes.

“Good,” Kenton said, turning back toward the street.  Khriss stood in front of him, her strange shoes held in her hands, the massive Baon behind her.

 

 

Well? The same Trell? I think not, but what do you think?

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

It's very unlikely that that would be the same Trell. That is funny, though

[Lurky McLurkerson he/him]

Yeah, first time I read the manuscript I about flipped... but I just can't see it being the same person. Likely a name that Branderson loved much. Had to work it in.

[calamity]

Brandon said that matching names usually are not coincidences. Take from that what you will.

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

Well, this is the unpublished version, so maybe he just liked the name Trell and threw it in there, and then later decided to use it for something else.

[Stormgate he/him]

What about masTRELL?

[The Invested Beard]

To keep my hair lustrous and shiny I always use Trell^tm.

[Blightsong he/him]

I can't find the WoB right now, as I'm on mobile, but he told someone that the Trellb in White Sand was connected somehow to Trell in the Mistborn books. That's why I suspect that Trell is either a mastermind Cosmere aware person or force seen or from Taldain, or is Bavadin himself.

[Praying Allomantis]

There are definitely several occurrences of the name in White Sand. Mastrell, Lestrell, the foreman. It seems to have worked its way into the language.

[hoidhunter he/him]

Yeah...I refuse to believe that it's "just a name he liked." brandon puts Easter eggs all over the place, and it's always with a purpose. Even if it's just, it's a common name on the world where trellagism originated. But I get the feeling that it's going to be more than that. I think that we witnessed the origination of trellagism in that scene. By the way...I have zero evidence to back up that claim...just a hunch.

It's a little coincidental that the character named trell was told to always seek out help from someone else, when the shard that is using the religion is obsessed with independence.

Edited April 20, 2016 by hoidhunter

[Argent he/him]

I can't find the WoB right now, as I'm on mobile, but he told someone that the Trellb in White Sand was connected somehow to Trell in the Mistborn books. That's why I suspect that Trell is either a mastermind Cosmere aware person or force seen or from Taldain, or is Bavadin himself.

 

Was that from the convention where you got to ask 76517867176718657 questions?

[Blightsong he/him]

Was that from the convention where you got to ask 76517867176718657 questions?

He said it at a different signing I was at.

[Lurky McLurkerson he/him]

He said it at a different signing I was at.

Can we just acknowledge Blightsong as the WoB whisperer?

[Titan Arum]

I can't find the WoB right now, as I'm on mobile, but he told someone that the Trellb in White Sand was connected somehow to Trell in the Mistborn books. 

I've been looking for that WoB too. I remember reading it at some point but I can't recall where. It may be in one of the signing reports prior to the Calamity tour, from the Shadows of Self tour. 

[PallonianFire he/him]

I was the one who got the Trell WoB, at the Shadows of Self signing in Denver. He's definitely connected to Scadrial and the religions there. I personally think that Bavadin is dead right now and Trell holds Autonomy, but when I asked Brandon if Bavadin was alive as of Era 2, he got shifty and waffled a bit before giving me a RAFO.

[Windrunner Savant]

I had an interesting theory concerning Trell after reading Pathfinder's theory on Autonomy. I wonder if Trell is not a Shard, but instead a Sliver of Autonomy. This would explain some of the seemingly broken intent of Autonomy concerning Sand Masters, the Kershtian assassin priests attempting to force a uniform ideal, and the "attack"  and similiar mindset of Trell's followers on Era 2 Scadrial. It also helps explain why at the Oak Brook Signing he started that there were only two Shards on Scadrial.

 

 

[33:38]

Q: As of Shadows of Self, how many Shards are there on Scadrial?

A: (nervous laugh) There are two.... Harmony counts as two Shards. I do mean it that way, and I am giving you clarification so you don't all freak out.

Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/111riGqQLl2oRcdlVmnKX3tBaAlFR46Ps_ebZeftXxrY/edit?pref=2&pli=1

 

Also the descriptions of Trelagism seem interesting since one reference seems reminiscent of Taldain with the night and day conflict, and another seems almost like Autonomy without a goal.

 

 

 

“I think I have the perfect religion for you,” Sazed said, his normally stoic face revealing a glimmer of eagerness. “It is called ‘Trelagism,’ after the god Trell. Trell was worshipped by a group known as the Nelazan, a people who lived far to the north. In their land, the day and night cycle was very odd. During some months of the year, it was dark for most
of the day. During the summer, however, it only grew dark for a few hours at a time.
“The Nelazan believed that there was beauty in darkness, and that the daylight was more profane. They saw the stars as the Thousand Eyes of Trell watching them. The sun was the single, jealous eye of Trell’s brother, Nalt. Since Nalt only had one eye, he made it blaze brightly to outshine his brother. The Nelazan, however, were not impressed, and preferred to worship the quiet Trell, who watched over them even when Nalt obscured the sky.”
Sazed fell silent. Vin wasn’t sure how to respond, so she didn’t say anything.
“It really is a good religion, Mistress Vin,” Sazed said. “Very gentle, yet very powerful. The Nelazan were not an advanced people, but they were quite determined. They mapped the entire night sky, counting and placing every major
star. Their ways suit you—especially their preference of the night. I can tell you more, if you wish.”

He sat down at the table, opening his portfolio, taking out the next sheet in the line. It listed the tenets of the Nelazan people, who had worshipped the god Trell.
Sazed had always been partial to this religion because of its focus on learning and study of mathematics and the heavens. He'd saved it for near the end, but had done so more out of worry than anything else. He'd wanted to put off what he'd known would happen.
Sure enough, as he read about the religion, he saw the holes in its doctrines. True, the Nelazan had known a great deal about astronomy, but their teachings on the afterlife were sketchy—almost whimsical. Their doctrine was purposefully vague, they'd taught, allowing all men to discover truth for themselves. Reading this, however, left Sazed frustrated. What good was a religion without answers? Why believe in something if the response to half of his questions was "Ask Trell, and he will answer"?

 

Also what if Autonomy is split between a Sliver for Dayside and a Sliver for Darkside with Trell and "Nalt" respectively clashing?

[PallonianFire he/him]

I still think that Trell was just a dude in White Sand, later became a worldhopper and started the religion on Scadrial, and then somewhere along the line Bavadin died and Trell picked up Autonomy. Brandon was really sketchy when I asked him if Bavadin is still alive as of Era 2. He ended up giving me a RAFO, of course.

[Blightsong he/him]

I still think that Trell was just a dude in White Sand, later became a worldhopper and started the religion on Scadrial, and then somewhere along the line Bavadin died and Trell picked up Autonomy. Brandon was really sketchy when I asked him if Bavadin is still alive as of Era 2. He ended up giving me a RAFO, of course.

Then went wouldHoid refer to Bavadin as if he was still relevant?

[Blightsong he/him]

I still think that Trell was just a dude in White Sand, later became a worldhopper and started the religion on Scadrial, and then somewhere along the line Bavadin died and Trell picked up Autonomy. Brandon was really sketchy when I asked him if Bavadin is still alive as of Era 2. He ended up giving me a RAFO, of course.

Then why would Hoid still refeel to Bavadin as if he were relevant during stormlight era?

[PallonianFire he/him]

 

You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin.

 

Past tense, and the grudge is referred to singularly, so even with Bavadin (theoretically) dead, we know Rayse is still alive and that's what Hoid is concentrating on at the moment.

[Pathfinder]

Past tense, and the grudge is referred to singularly, so even with Bavadin (theoretically) dead, we know Rayse is still alive and that's what Hoid is concentrating on at the moment.

Although valid, that is still very loose and far from conclusive. The past tense could be referring to accusing Hoid in the past, while he still carries the grudge for both. Secondly, that portion does not indicate at all whether Bavadin or Rayse are alive or dead. Just that Hoid held a grudge. Finally, the structure of the sentence implies to me that there is one action or occurance that both Bavadin and Rayse took that resulted in a grudge for the both of them. If they did multiple transgressions, then I could see using the term grudges, but the plural of the word grudge is not to denote the number of individuals it is pointed at. In fact, I could say I have a grudge against James for stealing and Mike for lying. Still used the singular grudge for two separate individuals, for two separate transgressions. I do not mean to come off attacking, just that that phrasing does not necessarily indicate what you think it may indicate. 

[PallonianFire he/him]

 

 

Finally, the structure of the sentence implies to me that there is one action or occurance that both Bavadin and Rayse took that resulted in a grudge for the both of them.

 

Yeah, that's my point. If Bavadin were dead, he'd still have that same grudge to carry against Rayse.

 

I'm obviously not saying that Bavadin is 100% dead. We don't know if he is (hence the RAFO I got on that question). I'm merely saying that someone can't use the Letter as evidence that Bavadin is alive or dead. I certainly never tried to use it as evidence that he was dead.

[Pathfinder]

Yeah, that's my point. If Bavadin were dead, he'd still have that same grudge to carry against Rayse.

 

I'm obviously not saying that Bavadin is 100% dead. We don't know if he is (hence the RAFO I got on that question). I'm merely saying that someone can't use the Letter as evidence that Bavadin is alive or dead. I certainly never tried to use it as evidence that he was dead.

Ah my misunderstanding. I thought you were using the quote as evidence that Bavadin is dead. My mistake 

[PallonianFire he/him]

 

 

Ah my misunderstanding. I thought you were using the quote as evidence that Bavadin is dead.

 

No worries! I wish there were something in the Letter to indicate that, but sadly not. At this point my theory re: Trell/Bavadin/Autonomy is based on almost nothing. Even the WoB that the Trell we see on the street being connected to Trelagism/Trellism on Scadrial doesn't say much for him being a Shard, just that he's a worldhopper. For all I know, he could just have started Trelagism back in the day and then Autonomy/Odium/whoever the heck is Trell took the existing religion and twisted it into Trellism.

[Zmann966 he/him]

Trelagism makes perfect sense with Autonomy...

 

The focus on astronomy, a science that explores a very autonomous aspect of the universe: the movement of the cosmic bodies. The purposefully vague doctrine that basically just says "discover the truth for yourself."

 

If he's not Autonomy himself, then he's linked to it in a way FAR stronger than just a worshiper or cosmere-aware Taldanian. 

I like your theory of the Silvers of Autonomy, Windrunner Savant. If Bavadin holds/held Autonomy it would be a Shard of extreme non-intervention. But if Trell and Nalt took up pieces of the Shard, it could fit...

Though, now that I think about it... Do we have a WoB about how many shards are on Taldain? And we're 100% SURE Bavadin is Autonomy right? It seems like Trelagism is focused on the night (uhh, duh! Originated in a tidal-locked world,) but the dayside of Taldain feels like it could be a completely different shard. Maybe one that was splintered, but it feels like Trell/Nalt are so saturated across the span of the cosmere that they have to be more than worldhoppers or Splinters... The idea just FEELS bigger... idk, but with Trell being associated with night/darkness/individualism on multiple worlds and Nalt having links to sunshine and excess and endowment... (It's RAFO'd but the connections are too numerous to just say that Nalt/Nalthis aren't linked.)

Endowment/Autonomy are opposite shards by their nature, like Preservation/Ruin and Devotion/Dominion. There HAS to be more here than coincidence, and it all feels so much bigger than just some splinters.