Atium Alloys and effects.

[Ethan the Zinc Compounder he/him]

So, we know that Lerasium can be Alloyed with the main 16 metals (To make people mistings instead of mistborn.) and there was another rust colored metal in SoS. So, can Atium be alloyed with all the other metals (like Kel's Malatuim was a gold/atium alloy.) and what if that new metal is an Atium Allow?

[Weltall]

Harmony explicitly can't identify the unknown metal in Paalm's spikes. If it was just an atium alloy he'd have no trouble figuring it out or sensing where Paalm was while she was spiked with it (and remember, atium is silvery, not red anyways) so the obvious interpretation (and the book outright tells us this) is that the red metal comes from some other Shard that has invested bits of itself in metal and is interfering on Scadrial because... something. Brandon has confirmed it's from a Shard we know of, likely candidates are Autonomy and Odium.

 

Also, WoB confirms that yes, all the allomantic metals can be alloyed with atium and they all produce some form of temporal effect.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Weltall

[Master_Moridin he/him]

Harmony explicitly can't identify the unknown metal in Paalm's spikes. If it was just an atium alloy he'd have no trouble figuring it out or sensing where Paalm was while she was spiked with it (and remember, atium is silvery, not red anyways) so the obvious interpretation (and the book outright tells us this) is that the red metal comes from some other Shard that has invested bits of itself in metal and is interfering on Scadrial because... something. Brandon has confirmed it's from a Shard we know of, likely candidates are Autonomy and Odium.

 

Also, WoB confirms that yes, all the allomantic metals can be alloyed with atium and they all produce some form of temporal effect.

 

The piece of "trellium" is described as

 

 

A small spike, long as a finger, made of some silvery metal with dark red spots, like rusted bits.

[Weltall]

Whoops, I think I might have misread the post to be 'is this an atium+something allomantic' alloy instead of 'atium+unknown godmetal'. If so, my apologies.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

It seems to me that the metal from "trell" is probably a new shard investing itself on Scadrial. Due to the relation shards have with planets, this would mean a new god metal would form that is a physical manifestation of trell's power as a shard of adolnasium.

 

It would be interesting if this was indeed an alloy of atium and a new god metal, however... That would certainly explain the atium-like ability to use hemalurgy to steal any attribute.

 

Has anyone given some though about what happens if you alloy god metals together?

[King's Twit he/him]

Has anyone given some though about what happens if you alloy god metals together?

 

Some people theorized that this is what Harmonium is, but I'm pretty sure that that was debunked by WoB.

 

Brandon always talks about how difficult it is for one Shard's Investiture to influence or affect another's, so I'm not sure that you could get two different godmetals to alloy, or at least not easily.

Edited January 25, 2016 by King's Twit

[NovaSeeker he/him]

There's no cannon or WoB explanation for Atium alloys other than Atium/Gold (Malatium).

 

 

So, lets have fun with it! Come up with your own effects!

 

Steel: (Gravatium) Increase local gravity.

Iron: (Levatium) Decrease local gravity.

Zinc: (Amatium) Erase target's memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be erased.

Brass: (Falatium) Implant false memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be implanted.

Pewter: (Sapatium) Decrease target's physical abilities.

Tin: (Clairatium) Remote view long distances.

Copper: (Veilatium) Become invisible.

Bronze: (Menatium) Gain telepathic ability.

Duralumin: (Benatium) Grant all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability to target within range for duration of burn.

Aluminum: (Voratium) Steal all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability from target within range for duration of burn.

Nicrosil: (Aeigatium) Become immune to all forms of external allomantic influence (zinc, brass, nicrosil, chromium, etc.)

Chromium: (Ultimatium) Enable duralumin-eqsuqe hyperflare of other allomatic reserves at normal burn rates.

Cadium: (Dimatium) Teleport self a distance relative to amount burned/flared.

Bendalloy: (Banatium) Teleport target touched a distance relative to amount burned/flared.

Electrum: (Duatium) Steal target's Identity. 

Gold: (Malatium) Reveal another's past self.

 

Edit: Well I went ahead and decided on stuff for everything. But I'm still curious what other people come up with!

Edited February 5, 2016 by NovaSeeker

[Shadeshadow227]

It seems to me that the metal from "trell" is probably a new shard investing itself on Scadrial. Due to the relation shards have with planets, this would mean a new god metal would form that is a physical manifestation of trell's power as a shard of adolnasium.

 

It would be interesting if this was indeed an alloy of atium and a new god metal, however... That would certainly explain the atium-like ability to use hemalurgy to steal any attribute.

 

Has anyone given some though about what happens if you alloy god metals together?

 

It makes sense. It could be Odium, or some other new shard we haven't seen yet.

 

And, the effect probably depends on the concentration of metals, and which Shard the metal comes from, with the effects possibly matching a fusion of the intents of the specific Shards.

[Nyali she/her]

There's no cannon or WoB explanation for Atium alloys other than Atium/Gold (Malatium).

 

 

So, lets have fun with it! Come up with your own effects!

 

Steel: (Gravatium) Increase local gravity.

Iron: (Levatium) Decrease local gravity.

Zinc: (Amatium) Erase target's memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be erased.

Brass: (Falatium) Implant false memories. Longer burn = further back memories can be implanted.

Pewter: (Sapatium) Decrease target's physical abilities.

Tin: (Clairatium) Remote view long distances.

Copper: (Veilatium) Become invisible.

Bronze: (Menatium) Gain telepathic ability.

Duralumin: (Benatium) Grant all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability to target within range for duration of burn.

Aluminum: (Voratium) Steal all current allomantic reserves and allomantic ability from target within range for duration of burn.

Nicrosil: (Aeigatium) Become immune to all forms of external allomantic influence (zinc, brass, nicrosil, chromium, etc.)

Chromium: (Ultimatium) Enable duralumin-eqsuqe hyperflare of other allomatic reserves at normal burn rates.

Cadium: (Dimatium) Teleport self a distance relative to amount burned/flared.

Bendalloy: (Banatium) Teleport target touched a distance relative to amount burned/flared.

Electrum: (Duatium) Steal target's Identity. 

Gold: (Malatium) Reveal another's past self.

 

Edit: Well I went ahead and decided on stuff for everything. But I'm still curious what other people come up with!

 

Isn't there a WoB that says all Atium alloys are temporal? If so, what about: 

 

Steel: (physical/temporal external push) - Send metallic object into the future, causing it to vanish and then reappear later

Iron: (physical/temporal external pull) - Hold a metallic object from changing

Zinc: (mental/temporal external pull) - Erase another's memories (I like yours here)

Brass: (mental/temporal external push) - Implant memories in another (I like yours here)

Pewter: (physical/temporal internal push) - Cause touched object to age (metal rusts, wood rots, people wither, etc)

Tin: (physical/temporal internal pull) - Postcognition (seeing into the past)

Copper: (mental/temporal internal pull) - Read someone's thoughts, Preservation style

Bronze: (mental/temporal internal push) - Send thoughts to another person, Ruin style (so, no ability to hear responses)

Duralumin: (enhancement/temporal internal push) - Send current allomantic reserves into the future (When you start burning it, all your reserves vanish. When you stop burning it, they all come back.)

Aluminum: (enhancement/temporal internal pull) - Restore your allomantic reserves removed by Aluminum or Chromium.

Nicrosil: (enhancement/temporal external push) - Burn metals that are inside someone else's metal reserves as if you burned them.

Chromium: (enhancement/temporal external pull) - Restore another's allomantic reserves removed by Aluminum or Chromium.

Cadmium: (double temporal external pull) - Slows down time for a single other person (rather than being a bubble).

Bendalloy: (double temporal external push) - Speeds up time for a single other person (rather than being a bubble).

Electrum: (double temporal internal push) - Reveal another's immediate future (like a single-target atium) [or maybe reveal the person someone could become in the future? That's more interesting, but temporal stuff in Mistborn doesn't reach more than a few seconds normally]

Gold: (double temporal internal pull) - Reveal another's past self.

[Rasarr she/her]

I really like both of your ideas (NovaSeeker, how did you come up with names? They're cool.). Making up alloys is fun, so let me try my hand at it... 

• Steel - lets you see the future of metallic objects (for example, trajectory the bullet is going to take, moving automobiles)
• Iron - lets you see the past of metallic objects (the trajectory bullet's taken, for example, so that you can check where it was shot from)
• Zinc - make others see the future as if they were burning pure atium (though I like NovaSeeker's idea, too)
• Brass - likewise, but with past
• Pewter - age self (you revert to regular age when you stop burning); like Cadmium, it's not very useful on self, unless for disguises but could be powerful with cubes (I like Nyali's idea, though)
• Tin - experience time slower (something like bullet time for mind, but without a bubble and without ability to move like Flash)
• Copper - hide all temporal "visions" from other temporal allomancers (something like temporal coppercloud)
• Bronze - sense upcoming allomantic pulses (for example, someone is going to start ironpulling, bronzeatium misting senses it a few seconds before - like atium shadow of allomantic activity)
• Duraluminium - send current allomantic reserves into the future (I like Nyali's idea here, can't figure out anything better within "temporal" category)
• Aluminium - send allomantic effects into the future (for example, you burn cadmium while burning alumi-atium, and nothing happens, but after a few moments the bubble "pops up" in the place where you've burned cadmium on its own; time delay depending on how long you burn alumi-atium)
• Nicrosil - send target's allomantic reserves into the future
• Chromium - send target's allomantic effects into the future
• Cadmium - fast-forward without a bubble
• Bendalloy - slow-motion without a bubble
• Electrum - reveal your future self, like reverse Gold
• Gold - malatium, of course.

[Nyali she/her]

Oh, I like the idea of coppertium acting like a coppercloud, except for temporal effects. That would make it a great counter against Atium, like AoE Electrum (useful for messing with Atium and little else).

 

What about Aluminatium doing the same thing, except for burning metals? Project a cloud inside of which no one else can burn their reserves?

 

I really like your ideas for Steel and Iron too - your Steel's like, blue line atium.

[JUQ he/him]

On 1/26/2016 at 11:28 AM, King's Twit said:

I'm not sure that you could get two different godmetals to alloy

Brandon seems to like abiding by most laws of science, and IIRC metals always alloy happily. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only thinking from a 2 year old high school background here!

[cometaryorbit]

I don't believe all Atium alloys are temporal. The allomantic table says "various expanded Mental and Temporal effects"  (while Lerasium alloys are "various expanded Physical and Enhancement effects. (Including the creation of Mistings.)"

[The One Who Connects he/him]

2 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't believe all Atium alloys are temporal.

Brandon said this back in 2011, so take that as you wish

Quote

Maru Nui ()

What would an atium-electrum alloy do in Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson ()

The alloys of atium have various temporal effects.


 

[cometaryorbit]

Yeah, I know, but isn't the Allomantic Table text written by Brandon too? And it probably had more time put into it than an interview answer.

[Oversleep]

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah, I know, but isn't the Allomantic Table text written by Brandon too? And it probably had more time put into it than an interview answer.

Except the fact that Feruchemical Table has a big mistake in it (two metals are switched).

[Jondesu he/him]

21 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah, I know, but isn't the Allomantic Table text written by Brandon too? And it probably had more time put into it than an interview answer.

Technically, unless I'm thinking of the wrong one, it's written by Khriss most likely, and therefore can be subject to in-world mistakes and misinformation.  I don't know if that would explain it, but there have been other instances of in-text information, including in the Ars Arcanum, being wrong on purpose.

jW

[Oversleep]

48 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Technically, unless I'm thinking of the wrong one, it's written by Khriss most likely, and therefore can be subject to in-world mistakes and misinformation.  I don't know if that would explain it, but there have been other instances of in-text information, including in the Ars Arcanum, being wrong on purpose.

jW

The "various expanded Mental and Temporal effects" bit comes from the Allomantic Table poster. You know, that big fancy one. I'd hold a WoB over it (since the Feruchemical Table got a pretty big mistake as I mentioned).

[Jondesu he/him]

30 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

The "various expanded Mental and Temporal effects" bit comes from the Allomantic Table poster. You know, that big fancy one. I'd hold a WoB over it (since the Feruchemical Table got a pretty big mistake as I mentioned).

I guess I'm not particularly familiar with that one.  Was that poster created by Brandon and team, or was it from somewhere else, then?

jW

[cometaryorbit]

14 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Except the fact that Feruchemical Table has a big mistake in it (two metals are switched).

If you're talking about the brass/electrum warmth/determination thing, wasn't that mistake made in the books and already long established by the time of the poster? Brass storing warmth is in the WOA Ars Arcanum, though electrum storing determination doesn't show up until AoL.

Or is there another mistake?

[Oversleep]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

Or is there another mistake?

I'll just link it:

 

[Voidus]

I'm inclined to side with the allomantic table, which was released later (Which means Brandon had time to adjust his earlier comment and just hadn't had an opportunity to tell us) and is much more deliberately created. Brandon has made mistakes, in interviews, in AMAs and occasionally in text as well, but I find it hard to believe how something like adding another quadrant to its effects could be a mistake.
Accidentally switching two very similar looking symbols? Very easy to do, and would have to go through multiple people for the poster since Brandon didn't hand-draw it himself. Accidentally adding a very sensible and logical change to a metals effects? Very, very difficult to do accidentally. It could be an intentional mistake, as with many Ars Arcana errors, a result of an in-world misunderstanding.
But that seems pretty unlikely, anyone who has enough access to Lerasium and Atium to go around experimenting with their alloys and notice similarities is going to be pretty in the know.
The table of allomantic metals is also less likely to be updated later as in world knowledge catches up than the AA is.

So while this is by no means an absolute statement of truth I'd say the allomantic table is more likely to be the full, correct answer.