Shadeshadow227

The thing is, we know that Allomancy can use other forms of Investiture, whether that's burning atium using up the Investiture contained in the godmetal instead of Preservation's own power or "blank" Investiture being able to be used as a powerful replacement for someone's metals. So it's likely that the effects of Compounding and an Allomancer hypothetically burning a hemalurgic spike is due to the Investiture contained within those materials interacting oddly with the flow of Investiture from Preservation when burned. Feruchemy and Hemalurgy still don't really seem to alter the metals they affect, iron is still iron, aluminum is still aluminum, etc. Investiture is attached to them, and there are effects associated with that, but the materials aren't really changed or otherwise modified.

I'm pretty sure I know which part of TLM you're referring to. I'm now going to directly quote from the text and explain why you're wrong. TLM Spoilers: This is consistent with how Allomancy and other similar mechanisms are said to work. Allomantic metals don't become Investiture, the reaction that consumes the metal opens a link to Preservation that allows an Allomancer to obtain Investiture for as long as the metal is burning, pulling it from the Spiritual Realm, with that Investiture being affected by the metal and immediately being expended on its associated effect. Also, aluminum being unable to be soulcast doesn't mean it actively refuses to hold any sort of Invested charge. As previously established, Investiture can exist on or around aluminum without issue, aluminum is even used as a containment material or as shielding against Invested effects. Aluminum is just confirmed to be unaffected by any Invested effects that would conduct through or otherwise alter or affect the material. You can't soulcast aluminum, yeah, but that's an Investiture reaction that would alter the aluminum itself. Feruchemy and Hemalurgy don't change the materials used for them, there's just Investiture attached to those. "Aluminum can't be soulcast, therefore it cannot hold a Feruchemical charge" is like arguing that a material can't be glued to something else because it doesn't chemically react with water. Soulcasting is, essentially, an Invested chemical reaction (though it's closer to a nuclear reaction, due to the atoms being changed into atoms of different elements when you convert a rock into oil or air, either way it's a reaction, the material is being altered into a different material, like how hydrogen and oxygen produce water when heated, h2 and o2 become h2o). Hemalurgy and Feruchemy just glue Investiture to the metal, there's no reaction there. There are chemically-inert materials in real life which do not react with other substances, and you can still attach things to them without needing a chemical reaction. Aluminum is Investiture-inert, not chemically-inert, but it's safe to assume the same logic holds true.

First of all, it's not a meaningless distinction. We know that Investiture and Invested processes treat Aluminum as a solid, inert material that can block whatever would be done to it, as evidenced by how Investiture can be blocked or otherwise contained by aluminum walls, boxes, or objects. SA spoilers: Aluminum doesn't become Investiture when burned, in Allomancy. No metal does, technically. All that burning a metal does is expand a Scadrian's Connection to Preservation briefly, to allow them to siphon Investiture from Preservation as long as the enhanced Connection lasts. That Investiture is then affected by the metal being burned, to produce the Allomantic effect within the user. It's a reaction that pokes a hole into the spiritual realm, that then allows Investiture to flow out through that gap, it's not a matter-Investiture conversion, and the metal is not affected by the Investiture, the Investiture is affected by the metal. Also, Aluminum does have an effect when burned: The instantaneous metabolization of other Allomantic metals in the body, including those that are not actively being burned. It doesn't "do nothing", it gets rid of all of your metals, which is an effect beyond simply "disrupting Investiture". Allomantic metals aren't Invested, if all Aluminum did when burned is disrupt the power of Preservation, it wouldn't affect metal reserves that weren't actively being used. Aluminum negates Allomancy and disrupts Investiture when burned because that's the Allomantic effect it has, similar to Chromium. Aluminum doesn't destroy Investiture innately. There is a metal which does do that, and Aluminum does not have the same effects that that metal does. The two are even compared at several points. Spoilers for Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, Tress of the Emerald Sea, and Isles of the Emberdark: In conclusion, there's no reason an aluminum metalmind or a spike would be unable to retain Investiture, especially since Feruchemy and Hemalurgy do not affect the materials being used. Investiture can clearly exist on and around Aluminum, so Feruchemy and Hemalurgy should work without issue.

Emotional Allomancy presumably uses some form of Invested signal, which Aluminum would interfere with, because it can physically interact with it. The field thing is odd, but I think that can just kinda be chalked up to weird cognitive stuff, silver does that kind of thing too and it also interacts with Investiture weirdly. My hypothesis is that while Investiture-driven reactions (arcane reactions? Investiture reactions don't really seem to be chemical, they can cause chemical reactions, but I'm not really sure what to call Invested reactions overall) cannot happen to Aluminum, Investiture can still physically interact with Aluminum, and Feruchemy and Hemalurgy both use physical reactions (which aren't really reactions at all, because nothing happens chemically, but "physical reaction" is still the common phrasing for physical structure changes without chemical changes) with Investiture, in order to charge the metals being used with power, by basically sticking Investiture onto it. Aluminum blocking emotional allomancy actively supports this, because that's just further evidence of Aluminum being able to physically interact with Investiture. If physical interaction couldn't happen, the signal would go through unimpeded. If Investiture can bounce off of Aluminum, why wouldn't it be able to stick if something tried to stick Investiture onto a piece of Aluminum?

The spikes are unInvested initially, yes, but the Investiture gained from the donor is how they can interface with the spiritweb of the recipient. Stabbing someone through the heart with an aluminum spike, in most cases where the person being stabbed is the donor, just kills them. There's not really a reason for Aluminum to just carve off a piece of the spiritweb and not hold onto it. Even considering what Aluminum is, an Investiture-inert material, it doesn't make sense that it can't hold a charge. Aluminum blocks effects that would otherwise function through it, if it blocks Invested signals, that means that whatever particles are being used for those signals bounce off or otherwise stop, essentially confirming that Investiture can physically interact with Aluminum. Aluminum also cannot be altered by Invested processes performed upon it, because it's inert, those reactions cannot occur. However, in the cases where we see Aluminum actively being used in the context of an Invested Art (specifically, all three Metallic Arts), Investiture-driven reactions already do not occur to the Aluminum. Allomancy pulls Investiture from Preservation, that is then filtered through the metal being burned, but the ability to burn metals does not require expending Investiture to initiate. It seems similar to how the spores work on Lumar, a chemical reaction involving an unInvested catalyst that results in Investiture being drawn from the Spiritual Realm. What's being done to the Aluminum is because of the reaction to enhance the Connection to Preservation, which does not use Investiture, it produces Investiture, which is then affected by the metal being burned to generate a specific effect. Feruchemy and Hemalurgy also do not involve Investiture reacting with the Aluminum in the spikes and metalminds that a Hemalurgist or Feruchemist use. The Investiture is attached to the structure of the metal, but that's seemingly a physical reaction. Like, if I press a nail into a container of glue, there's going to be glue on the nail when it's pulled out, even though the glue probably isn't chemically-reacting with the nail. It's just stuck onto it. As far as I can tell, Feruchemical and Hemalurgic charges are just kinda stuck onto the metal, they're not doing anything to the metal itself. So Aluminum should hold a charge.

If that was the case, Aluminum wouldn't be able to make Hemalurgic spikes in the first place. The Investiture is what makes Hemalurgic spikes able to interface with the recipient's spiritweb. In this case, I'm pretty sure Aluminum does take something, and the Investiture is still in the spike, it's just that the arcane properties of Aluminum, being Investiture-inert, would likely create a blockage in the spiritweb of the target once it touches the spiritweb directly, stopping the flow of Investiture that would enable someone's Invested Art.

I feel like this perception of Lurchers is primarily a result of most of the major characters being unfamiliar with how to precisely leverage Iron Allomancy specifically, and what precise use we do see being fairly brief. Kelsier and Vin noticeably focus on using the physical metals, but Kelsier's skill with Steel and Iron isn't shown very much, and while Vin does use Steel a lot, she uses Pewter far more than she does Iron, mostly Pulling to enable better and more precise use of her Steelpushes. In Era 2, this is arguably even worse, as the main character is a Coinshot with a pretty clear (albeit understandable) bias towards "what I do is better", and the few Lurchers we see don't really leverage their power much. Personally, I see Iron vs Steel as about equal, although better in specific areas for each metal. Steel has more overt offensive and defensive power, whereas Iron lends itself better to precision use and generally has better mobility and utility in environments that enable it. Lurchers don't need to carry metal on them, and the use of multiple anchors and varying pull strength for movement and other effects is likely vastly more important than it is for Coinshots. A skilled Lurcher can probably just walk up a skyscraper, hover in midair effortlessly by pulling against multiple anchors situated above them (whereas Coinshots struggle to do the same thing, having to balance on a single point where the lines from anchors underneath them intersect, Lurchers just have to pull up against gravity and aren't at risk of falling anywhere near as easily), etc. Not to mention, Lurchers are fully capable of yanking a metal object hard enough to hurt someone, they just need to get their target in-between them and whatever they want to hit people with, whereas a Coinshot just pulls out a coin and slams it into their enemy's forehead. Consistently, Iron vs Steel is about precision versus power. Wax shoves a bullet through a solid wall, Ranette has her entire house rigged up so that she can pull any of her doors open without using her hands, and can yank whatever tool she wants into her hands with a gesture and a thought. I know which one of those I'd want to be able to do, personally. Iron is my favorite Allomantic metal, because it is really useful, arguably more useful than Steel in most situations, but Steel is better in a direct combat situation.

Koloss-blooded can have metallic arts, Tarson is a koloss-blooded Misting in the Era 2 books. Kandra may be blocked from obtaining Allomancy or Feruchemy without some weirdness/homebrew, but they're also probably going to have some insane durability and self-healing features in a setting where not much healing is present, in contrast to the Stormlight side of things where health-restoring magic items were a thing and literally all Invested paths could Regenerate.

You don't even need to give up time permanently, your spiritweb keeps track of your actual age and you go back after you stop storing.

Ngl this makes total sense, especially for a setting like Scadrial. Allomancy and Feruchemy aren't particularly flashy, but they're subtle, versatile, and able to be used with incredible skill and even precision in a way other powers really aren't. Like, Radiants are flashy, their powers have these dramatic effects that are big and glowy and powerful, but I genuinely believe that in an area that would really enable a Coinshot or Lurcher to move, a skilled Coinshot/Lurcher is likely objectively a better flier than a skilled Gravitation user would be. "Nothing beats a Scadrian ship in a steelfield" probably applies to the people who can fly, too. Interestingly enough, the power vs skill divide is also displayed in an interesting way with Radiants vs Fused, with the more-skilled yet more-limited Fused as the antagonists, while the more powerful Radiants got their butts handed to them until they could exploit their increased power and different limitations to secure victories. Something also has to be said regarding Scadrian tech and how it interacts with the Metallic Arts. Roshar has fabrials, sure, but Scadrian tech is just built extremely well and often made to synergize directly with the powers somebody already has, and I 100% expect to see a ton more of that going forward because it is fascinating. I wanna see more stuff like the Coinshot grappling tech, hazekiller ammunition, or metalmind technology, I'd happily pay double-price for Ghostbloods if it has more of that.

To be fair, the ant wasn't a real ant, it was a cognitive construct, and Patji's wildlife is incredibly deadly. I wouldn't put it past them to just have some topical venom that soaks into the skin incredibly fast or something, tbh. The fact that deathant venom even does anything to a dragon is absolutely terrifying. She just got bit once and it had an effect, if they'd swarmed her she was most likely stormed. Patji don't play around, clearly.

Allomancy doesn't utilize Investiture to initiate the reaction. The metals aren't Invested, and an Allomancer doesn't exactly have a reserve of Investiture they pull from in order to start burning metals, they just do it somehow. An Allomancer begins burning their metals, then power is siphoned from Preservation in order to enable the effects of that metal, and that link only lasts as long as the metal does. Investiture can't be doing that, because then an Allomancer would need a source of Investiture to burn metals, but an Allomancer only becomes Invested after beginning to burn their metals. It isn't like being Radiant, where the Radiant's connection Invests them a bit and enables them to draw in Stormlight, Allomancers are just regular people who somehow use materials without Investiture to Connect to Preservation, whereupon they get and use Preservation's Investiture.

The reaction that actually expends the metal in Allomancy doesn't really seem to require Investiture to initiate or sustain, considering that the materials being used for that reaction aren't Invested, and the flow of Investiture isn't self-sustaining like with Elantrians or Awakening. It requires a Connection to Preservation, which is because of the chunk of Investiture all Scadrians have, but Allomancy uses non-Invested material to pull Investiture from the Spiritual Realm, and then uses that for a specific effect, but the metal itself isn't altered by the Investiture. It is destroyed, yeah, but as part of the reaction that enables Allomancy in the first place, not by the Investiture that reaction pulls in. Metal is used to enhance that innate link to Preservation, and is consumed to sustain that Connection, the Connection then enables an Allomancer to siphon Investiture from Preservation for as long as the metal sustains it. As far as Feruchemy and Hemalurgy go, Investing the material doesn't physically or chemically alter it, there's just Investiture stuck to it. It's like, if you dip an aluminum ingot in paint, it's not suddenly something other than aluminum, there's just paint on it. It might get stuck in the little bumps and imperfections in the material, but if you clean the paint off, that's still going to be the exact same ingot. It's not an exact analogy, because Investiture attaches to the entire chemical structure, but still, it's not chemically-bonded to the material, iron is still iron, aluminum is still aluminum, there's just Investiture effectively glued to it.

Aluminum blocks/resists Investiture acting upon it, is how I've reconciled this, tbh. Awakening and Surgebinding, for example, do things to whatever they act on. Awakening makes objects move, Surgebinding does all manner of things, can't do those things to Aluminum, and that extends to other effects that would act upon or through it. None of the Metallic Arts actually use Investiture to do things to Aluminum as a material, including Allomancy. Aluminum is a catalyst for a reaction that pulls Investiture from the Spiritual Realm, like the other metals, it's expended as part of that reaction but the reaction doesn't use Investiture to affect the metal itself, the Investiture is just filtered by the metal into a specific effect. Similarly, Feruchemy doesn't alter an aluminummind. Investiture is just attached to the molecular structure of the material when storing, encoding for the attribute of Identity, and then taken back, converted into more Identity in the process. Nothing says you can't just stick Investiture to Aluminum, it's just that whatever effect you want to alter the Aluminum with won't work, including conducting effects through it. Considering this, I think you would need to Invest an aluminum spike and apply it to a bindpoints for it to have a hemalurgic effect. What you Invest it with probably doesn't matter, as much as the fact that it's Invested at all, so it can interact with the spiritweb, whereupon it does what Aluminum always does: block things acting upon it. And because it's now hooked to your spiritweb, it's now part of you, so it blocks your own powers from altering your spiritweb.

Nicrosil stores ability, not raw Investiture like the Dor. Feruchemy, Allomancy, etc., not what is used to power it. You'd still need metals, still need to store and tap attributes, etc. Nicrosil itself also likely wouldn't be affected in the slightest by this, as Allomantic Nicrosil and Duralumin effectively just induce Allomantic catalysis, and the power that outputs depends on reserves of the other metal, not Nicrosil or Duralumin themselves.

Feruchemy temporarily Ruins you (diminishing attributes while storing), and then those lost attributes are Preserved within a metalmind for later access when tapping. It fulfills both Intents in a way that the other metallic arts don't, which happens to lead to no net gain. With Hemalurgy, power is taken, people are hurt or killed, destruction is necessary, and power isn't really preserved even though it is transferred, hemalurgic spikes decay outside of a host or certain storage methods, energy is lost into the surroundings. Allomancy uses Preservation's power almost exclusively, it has less to do with Preservation as a shard and more about Preservation's relationship to the people on Scadrial. They have more of Preservation than Ruin, because of how they were made, and that extra Connection to Preservation enables them to draw on the shard's power, but not freely. Something else is required to initiate and continue the reaction (because Preservation itself cannot really start anything), which is then naturally expended as part of that reaction, and the spiritual aspects of that material determine what effect the Investiture produces. Steel Pushes (Physically), Zinc Pulls (Cognitively), Aluminum blocks Investiture (Pulling it, and the materials used to access it, out of the Allomancer's system), etc., because that's naturally part of those materials' spiritual properties, Preservation doesn't have to do anything to produce those effects, it's just providing power which is then filtered through the metal. In addition, Allomancy doesn't alter the user in the same ways that Feruchemy and especially Hemalurgy do. Savantism is a thing, but that's a thing with all long-term flows of Investiture through a spiritweb, it's a consequence of the physics of how Allomancy and other things that use similar mechanisms function, not directly something Allomancy itself does. There's a particular irony to how things end up, with some shardic systems, Allomancy is one of those cases, where circumstances lined up in the right way where Preservation's power is likely to expend more material than Ruin's in the long-term.

The Allomancer Jak story was actually made into a short story for the Mistborn Adventure Game Alloy of Law book, I know it's at least in Arcanum Unbounded. Regardless, you can actually read it, if you want. IIRC, there's not really any spoilers for Era 2 in it.

Apologies, didn't consider that. Fixed.

He's just always storing a quarter of his weight at all times, to make himself lighter on his feet. Iron isn't exactly a metal where dumping all of an attribute in at once will have major consequences, so he can afford to store and tap for the sake of convenience, since he doesn't really get "weaker" or "stronger" like he would if he was using Pewter or Steel instead of Iron, he just changes weight.

Out of context, I'm fairly certain 99% of people here would still instantly know who this is referring to, lol. Exactly. Mistborn and Full Feruchemists each have 16 metals to split their attention between, this enables a lot of cool combinations and things that wouldn't be possible with just one, but it leaves them unable/unwilling to specialize. Twinborn can only use one of each, but they can still use the combination of both for cool things, and they get the benefit of having less options to split their time between. Quantity versus quality. Wax is a particularly fascinating case, because Steelpushing was already established as being really cool in Era 1. And now Coinshots have guns.

Bit of a tangent, but you just reminded me of the Glider Coat from the MAG Alloy of Law supplement. I wonder if that's actually feasible, using Iron Feruchemy to fly with a wingsuit. ...now I'm imagining Batman on Scadrial.

The medallions themselves are sort of "alive", for reasons that are as of yet unknown to everyone but the Malwish. The process of creating a medallion is something that hasn't been explored, but the end result is...seemingly not quite like an Awakened object, somehow. The medallion itself can tell when someone's trying to use it. It senses the Intent related to itself, and acts according to that Intent, within the constraints of what it can do. Honestly, I think it might be similar to how fabrials work, except using feruchemy (and potentially hemalurgy). The structure of the medallion itself is important, the metals involved encoding for specific effects: specifically Feruchemical effects, because it's built using Feruchemy and the medallion itself is a metalmind. The Bands of Mourning are specifically an anomaly even to the Malwish, nobody knows how it was created except for the creator. Like...yes, it's theoretically something you can replicate, but you could also theoretically turn the basement of a house into a supercollider, that doesn't mean anyone could just do that.

I feel like there might be some...logistical issues in certain cases, even beyond the question of attraction, unless a lot of pewter or gold is involved. Koloss-blooded can still come from other koloss-blooded and humans, as well as from two koloss, that seems to be more likely than a human and a koloss for the aforementioned reason.

Judging by how feruchemy works, I don't think a ferring or full feruchemist could do something like this. Feruchemy works by taking traits from the user, converting that to investiture, and storing that converted investiture in a metalmind keyed to that trait. There's no conversion going on when you use the Dor, and nothing really stores raw investiture (Nicrosil seems to store the ability to use Investiture, judging by how it's been described, which would also explain how the medallions work to an extent, but that's not the same as storing a quantity of the Dor. A decent comparison would probably be putting a circuit board into a drawer, as opposed to physically putting the electricity a computer uses into the aforementioned drawer.). However, I do think that a Compounder could potentially use the Dor to effectively increase the flow of investiture through metalminds charged with an attribute. We know the Dor can fuel allomancy, after all, and what compounding does is use allomancy to filter investiture through a metalmind to turn it into the trait stored within, the Dor might just add more power to the flow of investiture.

There's also a difference between what a mistborn/hemalurgist could do with Duralumin on the fly, and a collaborative, purposefully set-up usage of Nicrosil Allomancy to amp up one shot of something else. You don't really fight a Nicroburst, you deal with the big mess they cause and separate them from any Allomancers in the area. So Wax may have encountered a Nicroburst buffing a Coinshot before, but that's different from one person using Duralumin for such dramatic effects with virtually no setup involved.