Long Game 16: The Empty Throne Part 2: The Catacombs

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

Well im sad that Maill died....and he was so close to building a ray gun too!

 

supaghett ii ne

Edited February 2, 2016 by DeathClutch19

[phattemer]

Yeah, and he was going to send me some notes, too.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

So. Since we appear to have evidence of a sk as that is the only kill role that operates in the day, i’ve been doing a bit of thinking. Even if we do manage to kill off all the eliminators, we still have to deal with any sk’s before we are able to win. Now i’m thinking the sk(s) is probably someone who has tried to only help the loyal team (or perhaps was a sk as a result of a recently ended bloodtie) as the first sk kill happens to target an eliminator. Though I guess it still makes sense for the sk to want the eliminators out of the way. The sk can't win with the eliminators alive, and with the eliminator kill getting more likely to accidently hit them, it’s probably become a necessity for the sk to try limit the kill roles out there.

At this point I would be really interested to know who actually has been cleared. We are down to 10 players now. 1 or 2 may be eliminators and at least 1 is a sk. so that there are probably 2-3 players currently in the way of the village winning.

So i’ve been looking back through the players to see who i think would be sitting in the perfect position if they were the sk. I had been discussing this with Maill last night and Phattemer was a suspect for various reasons to the point that Phatt was Maill’s intended target for his Raygun if he had enough time to finish it (at least that's what he told me). He also agreed it was likely that either Twei and/or Mark IV could be an eliminator (Later i’ll do some reasearch, quote some posts, and come up with a hypothesis on who I believe is more suspicious).

I personally don’t think that Phattemer is an eliminator (mainly due to his intense tunnelling on Kipper), but I do think it is much more likely that he could be the sk.

I'll do more player analysis later as term started (well, orientation has anyway) so I have less time atm.

I guess the question is, who do we want to deal with first?

There are potentially more eliminators, and they would have more info spread amongst them so could be more of a threat in that aspect, but the sk has been lying low the entire game, blending in and making us forget their existence. The sk could be potentially harder to find as I believe that they are someone we probably trust to some degree. Because if they aren’t an eliminator then they are on our side, right? Yeah not necessarily. From my experience in mafia games, the sk can actually be a bigger threat than the mafia. Especially a sk that lies low. Because that makes them a lot harder to detect or catch in the act. And if you interrogate them they often just claim regular or a protective role. But that's just my personal experience. I personally view the sk as a larger threat. And the sk is also a big threat to the eliminators. We’ve already seen one eliminator being killed via sk (assuming it was the sk) and who’s to say the sk won’t kill them all?

I guess the main thing with the sk, is I have seen the scenario so many times, when the village kills off all the mafia, but then everyone left over isn’t suspicious at all. Everyone still alive seems trustworthy. And then the village falls apart because the sk subtly tears them apart. Village kills the most useful players, and then sk kills whoever they were most suspicious of, and then everyone ends up confused and then soon the village is completely dead.

Just saying, I’m extra paranoid of the sk role than any other. In classic mafia games, i’ve played many many games as the sk, and trust me, it sometimes can be disturbingly easy to win as it. Of course, if you slip up once, it’s game over for you. No one’s going to defend you. But if you can stay hidden (like our resident sk is) then you have a very high chance of winning…

What does everyone else think?

tl/dr: I am worried about the sk and am very paranoid. And I want people's opinions on who they think is the bigger threat: sk or traitors

[Elbereth she/her]

So. Since we appear to have evidence of a sk as that is the only kill role that operates in the day, i’ve been doing a bit of thinking.

I feel like you didn't see Alvron's last post before turnover.

Going out of character for the rest of this post. Maybe it's because I'm tired, but I can't think of a single way to say what I want to say in character.

We do not have evidence that a Serial Killer is the only day kill role.

What we do have evidence of is at least one hidden role.

Not that I'm saying it's not a Serial Killer. I'm just saying to be careful with your assumptions.

Yeah, we should probably ignore that note, although you should probably reveal wha you are, Elbereth, because the Traitors probably already know. Your choice, of course.

This makes me think several things.

1. If I hadn't hinted at my role to Kipper, I would be very suspicious of you right now. Why would the Eliminators already know my role? Because Lopen lied about the note? While it's possible that Lopen lied and was going to blame it on Blindness if I died, as far as I know (and Mark, correct me if I'm wrong), he didn't know where the note came from. What if it was from a Rookie Snitch, who isn't blind? That was a potentially quite large risk. So I'm more inclined to think I have Compulsive Liar, actually.

2. As I said, I did hint to Kipper what my role was, so I think the Village deserves at least that much as well. And for several reasons, I think revealing fully would be the best thing to do.

I told Kipper that "my role fits my character" (or somehting like that), which if you'll remember is a warrior/thug person. That did leave a couple of options, but somone intelligent could figure it out after that last term. And my reveal will both hopefully clear me completely, and clear up some things.

I'm a Strongarm. I hadn't used my action until this last turn, when I targeted Lopen, in case I did start stacking up votes and needed to prove myself. That also means we now know what Strongarm changes look like as opposed to Smoothtalker.

A Snitch could still target me if they want to, but I think notes would be better spent on other people.

End OOC.

[STINK he/him]

Phatt, seeing as you are seemingly the head of this item thing that I never trusted, mind telling us what items you have?

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

I feel like you didn't see Alvron's last post before turnover.Going out of character for the rest of this post. Maybe it's because I'm tired, but I can't think of a single way to say what I want to say in character.

We do not have evidence that a Serial Killer is the only day kill role.

What we do have evidence of is at least one hidden role.

Not that I'm saying it's not a Serial Killer. I'm just saying to be careful with your assumptions. ]

Yeah I saw Alvs post... I also know he's a troll. But yeah I know I shouldn't assume anything but for the moment I am. Well, if someone else dies and theres a cat and mouse involved again then thats evidence. I had also asked Alv about the signature last night (whether it was in the write up) and he said that it was meant to be in the write up, but he just hadn't done that yet. So I took that to imply that there was going to be an sk signature. Sure, I could be wrong and there is no sk, and in that case can our vigilante pm me during the next night cycle?

edit: fixing bad grammar

Edited February 2, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Elkanah he/him]

I agree that a serial killer should be a first choice target. However, we really don't have any solid less in who that might be. For reasons pertaining to our pm as well as what's been brought up in thread I'll vote for Phattemer. What have you built with all of those artifacts from the muiuup? Overall, I think we should move forward with ideas for a lynch.

bs is not?

Edited for color

Edited February 3, 2016 by Elkanah

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

Here ye, here ye, Burnt Spahgetti is proven good!

 

[phattemer]

Right now the only item I have is a Metal Plate. Shallan had most of the ones we'd managed to collect, and a lot were with Kipper.

Also, I've been scanned already.

Elbereth, I was thinking at that point that the note was accurate. I hadn't considered that it wasn't necessarily.

Since everyone else who was or is in the MUIOOP Conglomerate is now dead, it doesn't really exist anymore. I'm just a guy trying to get devices, though I'm still very open to trades etc.

I'm planning to search again today, so I won't vote for now, though I might later.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Here ye, here ye, Burnt Spahgetti is proven good!

aw thanks dc! and for the white text earlier Edited February 3, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti

[Elbereth she/her]

Elbereth, I was thinking at that point that the note was accurate. I hadn't considered that it wasn't necessarily.

Oh, I understand what you're saying now. That makes sense.

[Mark IV he/him]

I got a Note with the result "Elbereth is a Demolitionist(colored red)." (Hidden roles for the win!!!...except it's on the wrong team.) However, the Note was from Mark, so I'm not sure if it's accurate or not. So, yeah. Elbereth. Anything to say? Even if she's not a traitor, and Mark scanned someone else with that result, we know that the traitors have a Demolitionist(unless whoever got scanned is a Compulsive Liar I guess).

@Elbereth,

Lopen did know it was me who told sent him the note. We'd spoken the previous night.

Now considering that Lopen was evil, I don't think this demolitionist is evil.

Let us consider cases-

1) Lopen : Evil Demolitionist: Evil

Lopen basically declared an evil demolitionst (information which is true). In effect, one of his team mates is identifiable by their role now.

2) Lopen : Evil Demolitionist: Good

The demolitionist has Compulsive Liar SR. Lopen gave out info that an innocent role is evil. So, when we do encounter the demolitionist, we most probably try to kill them.

Of course, that is assuming that Lopen didn't lie.

Welp.

EDIT: something I forgot to mention. I still don't think the serial killer would have wanted to kill Lopen because that gets the game one step closer to ending with the villagers winning. IMO, the SK would likely pick off the villagers first before the eliminators. (But I'm not sure if the SK really knew whether Lopen was evil or not.)(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm bound to be incorrect somewhere. )

Edited February 3, 2016 by Mark IV

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

IMO giving out one of his own teammates role is a little too risky. Therefore i think the 2nd case is more likely. But you must also consider if Lopen just completely lied about everything.

[Mark IV he/him]

This might have been what we overlooked! Shallan might have had the Secret Bloodtie SR. She was bodysnatched as soon as she was killed. We never got to learn her role (most probably snitch), nor did we learn her side role.

Following that line of reasoning, I feel phattemer might be the SK.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong Phatt, but it does explain why they had started cooperating so early on in the game. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask them. I'll probably reply briefly in about 9 hours because I have to go to sleep now. Or, you can PM me tomorrow.

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Also, this is just a theory. So, don't come looking for me with your pitchforks when I turn out to be wrong.

[Alvron]

Just a heads up, but I might not be on at rollover.  The cycle will finish at the normal time though.  The write up should only be about 30 mins late at most.

[STINK he/him]

Phattemer

[Araris Valerian he/him]

On the topic of the serial killer, there isn't really much we can do to "focus" on them. I mean, how do we deal with the eliminators? We look for discrepancies in how they act and which players they defend/attack and so forth. Info roles help, but most of it comes from looking at connections between players. The SK has none of that. So we can't  exactly do anything except hope that maybe they get hit by another kill or a lucky lynch, or that an info role discovers them. Consequently, I am a bit suspicious of Burnt for making this topic the subject of such a long post. That suspicion is mildly decreased by the scan results, but we can't really trust those too far as we have seen. I'm a little suspect of phatt right now, but not enough to warrant a lynch.

 

I am also suspicious of Mark. You were involved in Meta's lynch earlier, if I recall correctly, although I need to go back and reread the first couple cycles. Additionally, I have no idea how you went from Shallan has bloodties to Phatt is the SK. I don't know if secret bloodties is revealed upon death, but even if Shallan is the only person that could have been the other bloodties role, it doesn't hold that the two are on the same team, so there would be no reason for them to work together. Phatt is a possible SK for sure, but I don't consider there to be enough evidence against him for something like that at this point.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

On the topic of the serial killer, there isn't really much we can do to "focus" on them. I mean, how do we deal with the eliminators? We look for discrepancies in how they act and which players they defend/attack and so forth. Info roles help, but most of it comes from looking at connections between players. The SK has none of that. So we can't  exactly do anything except hope that maybe they get hit by another kill or a lucky lynch, or that an info role discovers them. Consequently, I am a bit suspicious of Burnt for making this topic the subject of such a long post. That suspicion is mildly decreased by the scan results, but we can't really trust those too far as we have seen. I'm a little suspect of phatt right now, but not enough to warrant a lynch.

 

I am also suspicious of Mark. You were involved in Meta's lynch earlier, if I recall correctly, although I need to go back and reread the first couple cycles. Additionally, I have no idea how you went from Shallan has bloodties to Phatt is the SK. I don't know if secret bloodties is revealed upon death, but even if Shallan is the only person that could have been the other bloodties role, it doesn't hold that the two are on the same team, so there would be no reason for them to work together. Phatt is a possible SK for sure, but I don't consider there to be enough evidence against him for something like that at this point.

Well, when I start talking about something when im tired, I babble a lot. Besides, we can't just ignore the sk. Hence longer post.

I asked alv about the secret blood ties and he said that it is revealed on death. Also, Phatt claims to be scanned, but from memory scans don't cover side roles right? so I actually kinda think that Mark made a good point. It's not much to go on, but it is something

I still believe either twei or mark is an elimimator, tho I think im more suspicious of twei, as they defended both lopen and somewhat kyne during the game.

[Mark IV he/him]

@Araris,

The way I see it is that me giving Kipper a reading is not reason enough to me being bad. I made a choice. It was the wrong one. The end. Whether kip real got the evil beggar part right or he lied about it is nothing to do with me.

Also, those of you who were wondering about my extensive learning curve last time, it had not much to do with me being on the eliminator team. Rather, as I got to know you guys, I opened up more.

Also, @Araris,

In response to the Shallan =SK => Phatt = Serial killer part, I think that both of them would have figured out that Alv wouldn't probably give the eliminators two kill roles. So, they contacted each other, and had a sort of trust. This is the way I see it. (Subject to change with revelations)(feel free to correct me)

Edit: Oh yes. Also, this is the last time I can post before turnover.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Mark IV

[Elbereth she/her]

Since I mentioned it over on MR11 but not over here (I think?), I'm traveling, so I won't be around very much, particularly in the next 24 hours and to a lesser extent until next Monday. Apologies.

EDIT: Forgot to put in what I actually meant to say.

@Elbereth,

Lopen did know it was me who told sent him the note. We'd spoken the previous night.

Right. So Lopen could have lied completely without getting caught. Great. For all we know, he just made up the role of Demolitionist completely! Edited February 4, 2016 by Elbereth

[Araris Valerian he/him]

In this game, for me, when someone chooses to agree with a scan it still says something about them, since the scans themselves are not perfectly reliable, which has been well demonstrated. It isn't so much that you trusted Kipper as that you were willing to lynch Meta as a result. Its more of a "you are on my radar" thing than me wanting to lynch you right now. Also, the SK, at least as it has been implemented before, is its own faction.  That's why the SK role is in purple on the rules page; it is a separate faction, so it wouldn't lead to an extra kill for the eliminators. And the SK would have no way to reveal the eliminator team without betraying his own identity, so it wouldn't break the game to have an evil SK.

 

I'm gonna leave my vote on Burnt for now, although that is so that if phatt comes on and he wants to, he can tie. I feel like now that the SK is out, we should try and get people to stop searching for items during the day and have everyone vote, to force the SK to kill at night or reveal him/herself. That way protect roles will actually be able to block the SK kill.

[phattemer]

Well, I have a few responses, since most of the discussion is geared toward my potential Serial Killerness.

I didn't start working with Shallan until D2, when I received a note that Adavnatos was a village Snitch. I can't speak for why she gave me that note, but I got myself scanned N2 and she was privy to those results, so I can only guess that she thought that the chance of giving a Traitor a note was low enough, especially since they were going to be scanned the next night.

The SK isn't on the Eliminator team. They just want to kill everyone.

I guess I'll vote for Burnt and give up my item-searching privileges. Hmph.

Also, if I do die at some point, you guys should probably get the people going after the SK next. It's a common Eliminator plot to try to divert focus to an alternate win condition or another evil faction/player. At this point, it could just be theoretical, but if I die to it, it's probably more sinister.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

I find it sad how we have gone to completely ignoring notes as possibly trustworthy....

I brought up the sk issue because no one had said much about it yet. ive played a lot of mafia before and sk has always made me more nervous then the mafia. ive seen sk win too many times...

Im actually putting my vote on Twei . I've been suspicious of you almost the entire game, and since last cycle or something youttried draw attention away from lopen (proven evil) to maill (proven good) that makes me think you are an eliminator trying to defend a teammate.

edit: fixing colour

Edited February 4, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti

[phattemer]

The format is Name[/color*], without the asterisks.

Edited February 4, 2016 by phattemer

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

thanks

edit 1: *sigh* I will also say that I do have other reasons for bringing up the sk, as I was trying to prove a theory I had about something. Can I ask that if im to be lynched, please wait a cycle. phattemer, if you decide to lete live, I'll explain everything to you. I explained it all to Maill before he died, but he died, so he can't vouch for me... If you gus let me explain myself to the other scanned tonight, I assure you it will make sense. Please?

Dangit all. what am I even doing.

edit 2: twei phattemer

edit 3: adding the edits cause I forgot before...

Edited February 4, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti