Mid-Range Game 10: Divided Loyalties

[Creccio he/him]

Phone double posted again.

 

There is a "Hide" Option somewhere in there... i have double posted quite a bit myself...

 

As for the game... Yes, i feel that the Dia are just letting us talk and are stalking in the shadows for now... I think everyone should say what they think, no matter how useless they think it is...

[Tony Shark he/him]

And thats why I stopped with the code and have tried to bring forward the idea of Elbereth list and my only suspicion which is the people voting for me for being lost and using a code.

 

 

Everyone just discusses the code but not the other ideas~

 

At this point i think we just need input from more players and the the actions of everyone, not just me

 

@Tony:

 

Would you prefer me to come out and ask the individual straight out of the blue in the middle of the thread? Which one would be better received?

 

Oh wait....

 

Tony, Please instruct me in the ways of this game, teach me what to do, I am lost right now... My message has been for you all along, enlight me.

 

...See? I dont think it works by being direct on that kind of situation

Yes I'd rather you ask directly instead of causing confusion and brewing suspicion.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Phone double posted again.

And let me explain again, there is no hide feature on phone.

Down the bottom of the page, there's a button to reload the site in desktop mode. Then in desktop mode, you can hide it.

[STINK he/him]

Thanks, didn't know about the desktop mode.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

I'm going to be voting for Sart. Your vote for Ada was just because you think his summaries could be manipulative and misleading. That's not very helpful, in my opinion. His summaries have been pretty unbiased, from what I've read, and are helpful for players struggling to keep up with 11 pages of thread. 

 

Venture, I still want to hear from you, but I'm more suspicious of Sart at the moment.

[Hellscythe he/him]

Starry Smite for being inactive. From my point of view the Diagrammists don't have to actually do anything but send in a kill order every day. There's no information gathered from death, whether it be 10 deaths or 1. The only person that gets that information is the half-checking role. And there's no telling how much of that information is actually going to be divulged. There's not even any telling if the dead-checking role dies night one and we don't even have one for the rest of the game! If a traitor never posts, there's never a good reason to kill them. The Perfect Cover.
Creccio for defending himself sufficiently.

 

Also I realized that the Diagrammists probably know every single person in each faction by now. With the combined knowledge of each and every member, I'm sure they could get enough information from both my posts, Mail's posts, and their own specific roles (Commanders, Captains, Regulars, Leaders) they know. I'm sure by now they have everyone pinned out just doing the math. 6-9 evil people. 2 or more faction reveals per person that's active. That's alot of revealing in the Traitor Doc

 

Because of this I'd ask the Thaidakar and/or Restares reveal themselves if they so wish and give out the faction lists. If the evil team knows it why should we let them keep this information for themselves?

 

Secret Codes : Haha you thought there'd be some useful white text here. You silly goose. KW2016

Edited December 15, 2015 by Hellscythe

[Kasimir he/him]

This is a reminder to all players:

 

As we have previously clarified, if you are changing your vote, please remember to green votes you have placed in your original post. It does not suffice to just put someone's name in green in a later post. This is because we will be counting the first red vote from you that we see.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Kasimir

[Creccio he/him]

This is a reminder to all players:

 

As we have previously clarified, if you are changing your vote, please remember to green votes you have placed in your original post. It does not suffice to just put someone's name in green in a later post. This is because we will be counting the first red vote from you that we see.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

What happens if today they do not have the time to actually change said vote?

[twelfthrootoftwo]

STINK. I don't agree with his assertion that public information is necessarily good, but I'm not suspicious of him. I'm also satisfied with Maill's reasons for posting the 'faction lists', for now.

 

The whole thing with Creccio: As unhelpful as protestations of innocence are, it's what he was doing when lynched in LG15b as well, if I recall correctly. Beyond that, I don't really know, except:

 

Would you prefer me to come out and ask the individual straight out of the blue in the middle of the thread?

Definitely. I can't think of anything that you would need a code for at this stage of the game, unless you're trying to roleclaim already...

 

 

Because of this I'd ask the Thaidakar and/or Restares reveal themselves if they so wish and give out the faction lists. If the evil team knows it why should we let them keep this information for themselves?

I...don't think this is a good idea. I agree that normally, if you know the Eliminators have information, then you should share that information with the village. But this is also a faction game, and knowing who's on your team encourages playing the faction game instead of the elimination game. That's an attitude we can't afford.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Can an Assassin track themselves?

Yes. >> Don't ask how this works flavor-wise. You are an assassin having a severe out-of-body experience.

 

Perhaps they spent the cycle carrying around a selfiestick?

 

 

Would you prefer me to come out and ask the individual straight out of the blue in the middle of the thread? Which one would be better received?

 

Don't bother, I figured it out.

 

Starry Smite for being inactive. From my point of view the Diagrammists don't have to actually do anything but send in a kill order every day. There's no information gathered from death, whether it be 10 deaths or 1. The only person that gets that information is the half-checking role. And there's no telling how much of that information is actually going to be divulged. There's not even any telling if the dead-checking role dies night one and we don't even have one for the rest of the game! If a traitor never posts, there's never a good reason to kill them. The Perfect Cover.
Creccio for defending himself sufficiently.

 

Here's a vote tally (if someone doesn't mind, please double check for accuracy - there's a lot to keep up with this game):

 

Without Strikes, Descending Order

(2) Adavantos: Sart (1), DeathClutch (1),

(2) Sart: Kipper (1), Mailliw (3),

(2) Creccio: Clanky (2), Arraenae (4)

(1) Stink: Orlok (1)

(1) Mailliw: Araris (1),

(1) Hellscythe: phattmer (1), 
(1) Feligon: Paranoid King (1),

(1) Venture: Seonid (1),

(1) Starry: Hellscythe (3), 

 

With Strikes, Chronological Order

(0) Paranoid King: Clanky (1),
(0) Clanky: Arraenae (1),
(1) Stink: Orlok (1)
(1) Hellscythe: Elbereth (1), phattmer (1), Mailliw (1), Tony (1),
(0) Orlok: Arraenae (1),
(2) Adavantos: Sart (1), DeathClutch (1),
(2) Sart: Kipper (1), Mailliw (3),
(1) Feligon: Paranoid King (1),

(1) Mailliw: Adavantos (1), Araris (1),

(1) Venture: Seonid (1), Mailliw (2),

(0) Kynedath: Arraenae (3),

(2) Creccio: Clanky (2), Stink (1), Hellscythe (2), Arraenae (4),

(1) Starry: Hellscythe (3),

 

 

Still trying to catch up with everything.

[RippleGylf she/her]

I guess I will vote for Maw then. I revealed my faction partially to point out that his list was wrong. Instigating this kind of reveal plays very nicely into the eliminators' hands.

[Amanuensis he/him]

@Creccio: 29/36 = Y/N? Where Y = H and N = B.

EDIT: Disregard. I just went over the entire thread and composed a vote tally only including player's first votes in red. As it stands, Stink is in the lead with 3, so because I honestly don't believe he is evil and would rather not lose one of our runners I am going to put my vote on Sart as well. I do not want to have another incident where a player who wasn't meant to die does so I would rather instigate a tie at this point. If either Hellscythe or Twelfth fix their original post voting for him then I will retract to ensure we don't lose a player for no reason.

(3) Stink: Hellscythe, Orlok, Twelfth,

(3) Sart: Kipper, Mailliw, Adavantos,

(2) Adavantos: Sart, DeathClutch,

(2) Creccio: Clanky, Stink,

(1) Hellscythe: phattmer,

(1) Orlok: Arraenae,

(1) Feligon: Paranoid,

(1) Venture: Seonid,

(1) Mailliw: Araris,

Edited December 15, 2015 by Adavantos

[STINK he/him]

Awwwwwwww <3

[Kynedath]

Also, Hellscythe is male.

List of players who have not yet posted (time last online in gmt) (converted to MST because no one is in GMT (well, almost))

[Cycle 1 started at 4 PM GMT, 12/13 (9 AM MST, 12/13).]

Honey Badger (1:58 AM, 12/14) (6:58 AM, 12/14)

polkinghornbd (5:17 AM, 12/15) (9:17 PM, 12/14)

Elkanah (3:40 AM, 12/15) (8:40 PM, 12/14)

Starry Smite (5:42 AM, 12/15) (9:42 PM, 12/14)

Mace Windu (3:32 AM, 12/15) (8:32 PM, 12/14)

Burnt Spaghetti (1:15 AM, 12/15) (6:15 PM, 12/14)

As you can see, everyone has been on since the cycle started, and I have personally seen both polking and Starry Smite viewing the thread. Anyone care to post?

 

Thanks. I tried to remain gender neutral but it just didn't sound right.

 

Mace Windu has posted but I think this is the only post he has.

 

Mailliw, I think you just spoiled an important part of the game.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yes. I know the rules are vague on this, so I could let this go with Kas' troll, but I always intended for one faction to have all four Orders and the other faction to have an extra of one of the other three. If that wasn't always the plan, I'd leave you all wondering, but it was, so I think you should know.

 

So by this we know that this is how the Radiants have been distributed:

 

 

Faction A:                                  Faction B:

 

Bondsmith                                 Edgedancer/Lightweaver/Elsecaller

Edgedancer                               Edgedancer

Lightweaver                               Lightweaver

Elsecaller                                   Elsecaller

 

Also something to note is that in this game everyone has a role(and no, I do not count no-role as a role   ).

 

I'm not going to put my vote on anyone, because I'm not really suspicious of anyone at this point, and I won't be able to get online again before turnover. I'm sorry for not discussing much or voicing opinions on anything up to this point, but I've been extra busy the last few days, and haven't had the time to go over things as much as I would like to. (Including the rules. Things are actually even more complicated than I first thought!  ) I'll try to do semi-ananlysis of the current leaders in votes though.

 

Sart: Voted for Adavantos because of his summaries and to see his reaction. I don't really see his vote as that suspicious, but I can't say I've ever really thought a Cycle 1 vote was too suspicious. Personally, I don't mind Ada doing summaries if he wants to do it. It's my opinion that players should read over all the posts themselves anyways, so that they can fully understand the players tone and meaning behind the post, but if Ada does put any bias in his summaries, that's information to be gained about his motivations and such.

 

STINK: Claimed runner. Nothing to say about whether he's a Diagrammist or not. I have no clue. He's still neutral in my mind. Has caused quite a bit of discussion though, so that's always a good thing(makes for long periods of reading and catching up though   ).

 

Adavantos: No kind of read on him either. He's posted a few times, which is the norm for him, but I haven't really done any type of analyzing yet.

 

Creccio: Always seems to attract attention early on. Not in a good way either. I can understand a slight change of playstyle from him as I wouldn't enjoy dying early either.

 

Sorta Mailliw(since Ripple tried to vote for him, but messed up the mobile vote): Posted a list of who is on what faction, that turned out to have false information in it. I don't know what to think of this honestly.

 

I don't think the eliminators care about the faction aspect of the game, except that they can use it as an excuse for any actions that seem out of place, or suspicious. I'm still trying to figure out how to work in the faction part of the game as well as the usual "catch the eliminators." I'm gonna try to not let it affect my suspicions too much though, as their is no chance of winning if we don't kill the eliminators. If a situation arises where a member of my faction is under suspicion as well as a known Radiant of the other faction, I have to admit that the faction part of this game will most likely affect my thinking. So I have to agree with STINK that Radiants should not reveal to anyone unless they know for a fact that the player they are revealing to is on their faction as well(Of course, if any Radiants on the faction opposite me want to reveal, I suppose I'd be fine with that   ). Of course, even then, that player might still be an eliminator and they would have no qualms about somehow revealing it to the other team so that you will get dead.

 

I think that's about all I've got for now. Once I read through the thread completely, I'm hoping I'll have some leads to pursue for next Cycle, and more things to disucss, as well as somewhere to place my vote. 

 

Aaaaaaaaand since I really enjoy the role aspect of this game, here's something I've been thinking about. If the Diagrammists have an Elsecaller, I believe that they would have a small team. Probably something like 4 or 5. Since the Scholars are the only way to get the alignment of the players who were lynched/killed, if they have the ability to change said alignment(after death), then that would greatly affect how we go about the game. They could lead us down false trails, or they could protect themselves by changing their own dead members alignment and therefore making us unable to soft-clear those who were responsible for their death, or go through that eliminators posts and gain information from that. (Obviously, if you are a village Elsecaller, you better not change the alignment of anyone. Even changing the role seems detrimental as well. You're better off protecting yourself with your other ability or not doing anything if you think someone might PM you or something.)

[Guest]

Normally, I would love to see this kind of activity on D1. However, most of the bulk of the posts appears to be a few select people posting a few sentences at a time, and just rehashing and rehashing and rehashing aguments that have already been made. Really, I haven't seen much new content/ideas for the last three or four pages. These last pages have mostly been Creccio defending his ultimate rightness and everyone else either attacking him for it or making comments about headaches and such.

People I'm watching:

Creccio If you don't know what to do; what to say; how to find the Diagrammists in this setup, what are you telling someone with your code? You must have realized that you would draw some suspicion for putting in this code (if you didn't, whatever), so what message was so important that it was worth the suspicion you got? Note: I don't necessarily think that Creccio is an Eliminator yet.

Hellscythe You seem to be switching votes abruptly. Is that just me? Regardless, it makes me curious as to whether or not you putthe vote on Creccio always intending to take it off. As I side before, Creccio was going back and forth for multiple pages defending himself, so what finally convinced you that he had defended himself sufficiently?

Lightsworn Panda He's a Panda. As my grandpa always told me, "Never trust a Panda."

A few comments:

It's very hard for me to adequately analyze eleven pages of content on mobile. I'm doing my best, hence this post. Once the talkative people die, this will be easier.

I appreciate the commments that a few people have made on the usefulness of content, namely, Kynedath and Jain. Too often, we look at a long post and automatically classify it as useful. It's important to decide whether or not a post actually provides useful information, and whether or not it is filler. As I said before, it's hard to trawl through 11 pages on mobile...anyway, I remember having a negative impression of one of Seonid's posts for content issues (Seonid, take this with a grain of salt. I don't have it in front of me right now...).

Lastly, a personal request.

Everyone: Please don't lynch Mailliw today.

Eliminators: Please don't kill Mailliw today.

He has died N1 for the last two games, and that is not a fate I'd wish on anyone. Don't make it a third. Let's keep it fun for everyone. If anyone wants to put suspicion on me for this, just keep it to yourself, please. Mailliw is my pal and I don't want him to die N1 for the third time. That is all. N2 is open season.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Guest

[Paranoid King he/him]

I'm back! Thanks so much for your post summary, Adavantos.

Feligon hasn't posted yet, so I'm putting my vote somewhere it counts. If I were to break the tie between Stink and Sart, I'd go for Sart, merely because in so many previous games, stink acts funny, we lynch him, and he's good. I don't have that standard with Sart.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Aw, thanks, Kipper!

[STINK he/him]

What did Sart do that is now getting him lynched?

[Amanuensis he/him]

I only voted for Sart to keep Stink from dying. A few of us have voted for him but he has not come on to defend himself yet. Since I personally would rather see a tie than a baseless lynch, I am retracting my vote from him. Instead, Paranoid King; why do you think Sart is worth lynching? Just because Stink may be good doesn't mean Sart is evil. If you're going to vote for a player, can you please give a real reason as to why they might be a Diagrammist? Otherwise your vote just seems kill hungry.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Adavantos

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Sorry for not posting prior to this guys. I’ve been trying to keep up with the thread but I haven’t had time to post. Also, I’m going to have less time to post this game then I did in the LG so just a pre-warner.

Anyway… So onto my thoughts so far.

So, seeing as it is only day one, obviously it’s hard to build solid suspicions as there isn’t anything to go on apart from discussion, and then there are only a few players who are major contributors to conversation.

So here are my opinions on some of the players (I'll try do more next cycle, but this will have to do for now):

(The number next to the name signifies my trust/distrust level of them. 0 being 'neutral/no clue' positive numbers meaning trust (5 being the max and that I trust you a lot) and negative for distrust (-5 being minimum and that I'm almost certain you are an eliminator))

Hellscythe (-0.5): I really don't know. If anything, I'm just confused as to what you're doing. And my gut is telling me to be mildly suspicious of you. Idk, I'll look back through your posts tomorrow when I can.

Adavantos(0.2): His summary posts are very useful whether you are trying to catch up on posts or need a quick refresher. I get that post summaries could fall into the category of trying to seem useful while not really helping but imo that's a lot of effort if you are just trying to be useful, and the summaries are useful. And anyway, ada is posting things other than the summaries, so I definitely don't find it suspicious. If I was going to try find a reason to be suspicious of him, I would be more interested in his other posts which are useful too.

Mailliw (0): I applaud you on your excellent phishing skills. (Well… If I find out you use these skills out of games, I will mega frown and stop applauding. So… I applaud your use of phishing in context of this game.) What I like about how you did it is that any information gained from it is available to the public, rather than something secret that only you will gain information from. From what I've heard, this sort of thing is normal for you so it doesn't make you seem suspicious to me.

Creccio (0.1): the thing is with creccio, is that I get the impression he keeps making innocent mistakes, not realising how they could be taken and gains a lot of negative attention really fast, as Lopen mentioned. I feel like that off creccio was a diagramist, they would have no need for codes asking for help: help can be received from fellow eliminators on their doc.

Hrmph I was hoping to post thoughts on more of the players but I need sleep. Its 2am. Ill try complete/update it next cycle if I can.

As for voting... I'm looking at the current vote tally and I don't know who I want to vote for. I'm not very suspicious of anyone yet, and between sart and stink I have no thoughts. Ada and Creccio I would probably rather then not being killed this early-creccio because of their bad runs (give creccio a chance guys) and Ada I think is the kind of player who is very useful for discussion, as I saw in the long game, so yeah. Otherwise idk.

Since I'm undecided, I'm not going to vote.

Once again, sorry for not posting sooner. I'll try post more next cycle (no guarantees though).

And now I need to sleep.

That is all for now.

[Guest]

Aw, thanks, Kipper!

No problem, Evil One. I don't support consecutive Cycle 1 deaths. I don't think any of the players want to experience that.

What did Sart do that is now getting him lynched?

Basically, I'm so wildly popular and likeable that everyone wants to follow my lead.

I only voted for Sart to keep Stink from dying. A few of us have voted for him but he has not come on to defend himself yet. Since I personally would rather see a tie than a baseless lynch, I am retracting my vote from him. Instead, Paranoid King; why do you think Sart is worth lynching? Just because Stink may be good doesn't mean Sart is evil. If you're going to vote for a player, can you please give a real reason as to why they might be a Diagrammist? Otherwise your vote just seems kill hungry.

Emphasis mine.

It would seem that Paranoid King is using almost exactly the same logic as you did in voting for Sart. You ask other players to give a "real reason" for voting, while, in the same post, you admit that when you voted for Sart, it was solely to save Stink.

The reasoning you gave for your vote on Sart doesn't seem like a "real reason" for why Sart might be a Diagrammist. Actually, it seems almost "kill hungry." It's hard to take the moral high ground when you just did literally the exact same thing as the person you are accusing. So your vote on Paranoid King is a little reactionary

Edited December 15, 2015 by Guest

[Amanuensis he/him]

That logic is unfathomable, Kipper. When I voted for Sart I said in my post I am only voting for Sart to prevent Stink from accidentally being killed because two players took their votes off of him but did not retract in their original posts and that as soon as one of them did fix it I would retract mine. That is the very opposite of kill hungry. I'm trying to save a player from being executed unfairly.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Adavantos

[Elkanah he/him]

Hey Everyone. I want you to know that I am trying to keep up with the thread. I had a final yesterday and two today, but after that I will have finished and can devote more time to this.

 

Right now my I think there is at least one evil person actively involved in the discussion about Creccio, but I don't know who it is. It seems like too good a red herring to not try to push a lynch train... Unless of course Creccio is evil, then I'm probably wrong.

 

Also, Maili, I thought your play was hilarious. Thank you for that.

 

Sorry I know this doesn't add much, but I need to get back to finals.

[Guest]

That logic is unfathomable, Kipper. When I voted for Sart I said in my post I am only voting for Sart to prevent Stink from accidentally being killed because two players took their votes off of him but did not retract in their original posts and that as soon as one of them did fix it I would retract mine. That is the very opposite of kill hungry. I'm trying to save a player from being executed unfairly.

...right. It's still a vote that doesn't have any "He's a Diagrammist because x" reasoning. I don't think you have a real basis here to vote for Paranoid King.

But you know what annoys me the most about this whole thing? Your posts are not justified, and it's starting to creep me out a bit.