New chapter unlocked for Steelhunt: WoR Ch. 2

[Gloom he/him]

I just thought of something that the chapter does confirm.  No Alethi highprinces or anyone else of note has been killed by Szeth (excepting of course Gavilar).  Dalinar is the first Alethi on Taravangian's hit list.

 

I personally believe that this is because Sadeas is in league with Taravangian, and had up until recently felt he could handle Dalinar. So long as Taravangian had someone with Elhokars ear, the Alethi could be managed.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Mostly an aside, but some people's bodies do reject ink.  It happens occasionally when they've gotten too many tattoos in a short period of time, so his body rejecting the ink is just an enhancement of a natural process (you can search for "ink rejection" if you want to learn about that).  Tattoos require the skin to heal slowly, essentially trapping the ink below the outer layer of skin, and I'm guessing in Kaladin's case it's just healing too quickly so the ink is being forced out rather than the skin healing over it.

 

You just Ruined Moogle's day.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Kurkistan

[deddinty]

I'm not a big fan of that particular theory Gloom (Sadeas being allied with Taravangian), but I suppose you can use the fact that Elokhar's main scribe is Sadeas' cousin to support it.

 

I just hope this "hiding powers" thing doesn't go on for much longer than this book.  I expected something of the sort, but as long as it makes sense, and Kaladin's reasons do right now, I can't expect them to be so open.  From what he's gone through, it's a very human reaction to guard any advantage or anything precious to him. I'm more concerned with how Dalinar and Jasnah open up to each other, or if they're going to drag it out for books on end.

[Shardlet he/him]

My guess is that Dalinar will not find out about it until at least halfway through the book, if not longer.  I would be very surpised if the book ended without Dalinar finding out somehow.

[bartbug he/him]

Speaking of Dalinar, if we get any more sneak preview Words of Radiance chapters, I really really really want it to be Dalinar.

Really.

All joking aside, I feel that Dalinar is the person who's role in life has changed the most, and we haven't seen a single thing about that. Since he is the High Prince of War now, the fighting on the Shattered Plains (i.e., the coolest thing ever) will be drastically changed.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I'm just going to pretend I wasn't crying all the way through that. Stormfather, this book is going to kill me. On a more lighthearted note, I think my question about Syl having a safehand covering is answered. I'm on my iPad, so I can't find my code to get into the actual page and grab the quote, but it talks about her clasping her hands together. I figure if she had a "sleeve" of some sort, Kaladin would have mentioned it there.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I agree that that's highly suggestive, but it doesn't quite settle it. This is Kaladin's POV, afterall, and he wouldn't take special note of a "young woman" with a covered safehand.

 

Also, she could be "wearing" a glove, like darkeyes do, rather than going full-sleeve like those bourgeoisie lighteyes.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I'm just going to pretend I wasn't crying all the way through that. Stormfather, this book is going to kill me. On a more lighthearted note, I think my question about Syl having a safehand covering is answered. I'm on my iPad, so I can't find my code to get into the actual page and grab the quote, but it talks about her clasping her hands together. I figure if she had a "sleeve" of some sort, Kaladin would have mentioned it there.

 

Did anyone else ever watch the cartoon "Recess"?  'Cause the thing that was running through my head was the Ashleys saying "Scandalous".

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Ah, that's true. I'll leave that sticky note up on my wall then still. Silly Feather, wondering about the little things while y'all have your theories. I have such simple wants.

[Kurkistan he/him]

What sticky note?

 

So far as theorizing goes: I'm trying to lay off on it this chapter, other than my little tiff with Moogle.

 

Notice me not even doing calc do see how long different amounts of stormlight can be held? You people should be proud of me.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Kurkistan

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Oh I have a bunch of sticky notes on my wall, all labeled "DQ2AB" aka "dumb questions to ask Brandon." Aside from Syl's safehand other gems include "Can men on Roshar do things lefthandedly, and if so, can male ardents learn to write with their left hands?" and "Does Atium still work if you can't see the shadows, such as if it were pitch black or if the Allomancer were blinded?"

Edited November 7, 2013 by FeatherWriter

[jcoop513 he/him]

I just finished reading it, and am totally psyched about Kaladin and his crew.  I hope there's another good training scene coming up in the book.  I did notice, though, that the beginning seemed a bit awkward to me with the mention of the light-eyed and dark-eyed dead body treatment that seemed out of place.  I think Drehy's and Moash's names were mixed up at least once as well, so some of these changes were probably very recent.  Other than that, I really liked the chapter, and am eager for more.  I also support the idea of having a Dalinar chapter or reading if another appears in Steelhunt .

 

I was a bit surprised about Shen.  I thought he would have been more distant and unsupportive of Kaladin after the way he was seen treating the Parshendi bodies.  The way he follows along with everyone else without alternate orders seems logical, but the nod to Kaladin after the tattooing was a shock.

[deddinty]

I'm just going to pretend I wasn't crying all the way through that. Stormfather, this book is going to kill me. On a more lighthearted note, I think my question about Syl having a safehand covering is answered. I'm on my iPad, so I can't find my code to get into the actual page and grab the quote, but it talks about her clasping her hands together. I figure if she had a "sleeve" of some sort, Kaladin would have mentioned it there.

 

Ah, that's true. I'll leave that sticky note up on my wall then still. Silly Feather, wondering about the little things while y'all have your theories. I have such simple wants.

 

I think I need to get more into the tumblr fandom as I felt the same way for every little tidbit Feather  I'm going to die when reading the actual book.  I wonder if the final code reveal will be the final version of the "Rambo-Kaladin"less cover.

 

As for Syl he often mentions she looks like she's wearing a young girl's dress, which to me always implied the safe hand wasn't covered as well.  But I'd be interested to know for sure.

 

I was quite surprised that Shen got the tattoo as well, I really wouldn't have expected him to do that without being ordered.  It's almost like Kaladin is getting through to him in some way, definitely going to be interesting to follow his plot.

[Ethrien he/him]

I was a bit surprised about Shen.  I thought he would have been more distant and unsupportive of Kaladin after the way he was seen treating the Parshendi bodies.  The way he follows along with everyone else without alternate orders seems logical, but the nod to Kaladin after the tattooing was a shock.

 

Aye, Shen was a bit of a surprise standout to me. I'm now really hoping he finds his 'music' in WoR. I wonder if there isn't something cognitive going on with the Parshmen. Everyone views them as property so it reenforces their view of themselves as property. Shen is given a name, possessions, and is thought of as a person by Bridge Four and so he begins to develop a view of himself as a person.

[bartbug he/him]

Ooh, I like the cognitive aspect of Parshmen. In the cosmere, that's actually really plausible.

Upvote for you, good sir! Also, with that theory, maybe Shen becomes Parshendi as a part of Kaladin's insistence on treating him as part of the crew.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Oh I have a bunch of sticky notes on my wall, all labeled "DQ2AB" aka "dumb questions to ask Brandon." Aside from Syl's safehand other gems include "Can men on Roshar do things lefthandedly, and if so, can male ardents learn to write with their left hands?" and "Does Atium still work if you can't see the shadows, such as if it were pitch black or if the Allomancer were blinded?"

 

Ah, cool.

 

As to the Atium question: Brandon kind of maybe sort of confirmed that yes, you can "see" Atium shadows without "seeing" them.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Mailliw73 he/him]

This chapter made me so impatient for March! I can't wait to read more Kaladin. I loved the imagery of the Freedom tattoos and cutting off the Cobalt Guard patches.

[Argent he/him]

I think the freedom-bridge-four glyphtrio could be made to look interesting, with the glyph usually stylized into imagery and all. I can't begin to imagine how the "freedom" glyph could look like, but even a mediocre artist could sketch up designs for "bridge" and "four." I have a vague picture in my head, with the freedom glyph in the middle, symmetric, fanning out on top a little like wings, the other two roughly the same shape on each side. 

[dionysus]

Upon further reflection, Shen's behavior seems the most important thing in that chapter when it comes to our favorite activity of extrapolating small details into cosmere shaking theories.  Two possibilities, the parshmen were never really compeltely mindless and it is just cultural prejudice, or Shen is developing as a result of his acceptance into Bridge 4.

 

I must admit I have intentionally avoided reading the parshendi POV excerpts to save it for the glorious first read, so I could be behind on parshmen information.

[Argent he/him]

I am not sure how long you'll go unspoiled before stumbling over a post talking about Eshonai's interlude... There is a tidbit in it that explains the relationship between the Parshendi and the Parshmen (I'll say much - they are the same species, biologically speaking). 

 

Still, even armed with this knowledge, we are no closer to understanding why Shen seems to be acting differently - if he is acting differently. Parshmen are supposed to be perfectly obedient, but they don't seem incredibly intelligent - I am thinking of drunken bees, of all things, for some really odd reason... I doubt this will be the case, but the following might explain things:

• Parshmen could have weak memory formation capabilities. Because of Eshonai's interlude we know that they are probably not very intelligent, so memory could be lost along with the other mental faculties. This could explain why Shen doesn't seem to hold grudge against his crewmates for disturbing the Parshendi dead. Still though, it's been only a couple of days after the battle for the Tower, and it seems like the Parshmen can remember longer than that... Didn't Shen skulk for more than just a few days after Kaladin's original transgression?
• Shen is reading the implied behavior amongst Bridge Four - you are part of the crew, you get tatted up. 

[hoser he/him]

Why does Shen take the initiative to get tattooed?

Argent's explanations seem perfectly reasonable and I am not arguing against them, but I see some other possibilities. 

 

To start with, I interpret getting tattooed as an endorsement of his treatment by the rest of Bridge 4, implying perhaps that, given a choice, he would not be a slave. 

 

• He could feel good about a lot of his treatment with Bridge 4 and not hold a grudge about the things he found offensive.  This seems contradictory, as he is motivated by past events, but filters them in a skewed way, so I don't like this possibility. 
• He could be passive and inarticulate, but at least reasonably intelligent.  If he can understand the necessity and the value of the desecration of the Parshendi bodies even though he can't deal with it while it is going on, it might explain his behavior.  I sort of remember that Parshendi are used to watch children, which would require great intelligence to perform effectively, so that also points toward the intelligent, passive and inarticulate model.  This model seems like it has the most dramatic potential also, so I prefer it.  While generally passive, he might have a preference for being treated as a person rather than a slave and that might rise through his passivity enough for him to make the gesture of getting the tattoo. 

Edited November 8, 2013 by hoser

[Meg]

After having a little break from here I today found this thread and -- naturally -- had to read immediately that new steelhunt chapter. I love it. 

 

I've looked over this thread but not that intensively. Anyways I dare throwing in some thoughts.

 

1. Tattoos

I don't know about tattooing but my first thought reading Kaladin's part was that him holding Stormlight permanently made the little wounds heal far too fast to keep the ink in. I was kind of happy to find out here that my thought was right and not only my "idea".

 

2. Syl

It was said already that she doesn't behave different to earlier scenes from TWoK.

 

I read the question whether she hides her "safehand". I didn't look further, I admit.

Anyways: Why should she participate in this tradition? She's a spren not a woman. She's not "Alethi" but a person totally of her own.

 

3. Timeline

There is one mentioning about timeline in one of the Mistborn-Annotations that (very paraphrased) says that each chapter follows the last in time. So Chapter 2 takes place after Chapter 1 (except Epigraphs and in the case of the Stormlight Archive, the flashback chapters).

I know, it's from Mistborn (and I can't find the right Annotation at the moment, I apologize) but I'm under the impression that this works for the other books (I mean Elantris, Warbreaker, Stormlight Archive), too.

 

4. Shen

Shen was left in the warcamps when the Battle of the Tower occured:

 

Other bridgemen nodded, and Kaladin was surprised to see the concern in their faces. Rock and Teft joined Kaladin and Moash, all wearing their Parshendi-carapace armor. He was glad they’d left Shen back in the camp. He’d have been catatonic at the sight of it all.

TWoK Chapter 67

 

 

This means he doesn't know what (exactly) happened in this battle when he was fetched back with the other bridgemen that stayed in the warcamps while the Battle of the Tower happened. 

 

Edit (I forgot that): Because Shen hasn't been in the battle I'm not surprised he's loyal to Bridge Four. And I think he feels kind of good there, where he is not treated as a slave or a minor person. Thus I understand that he wants to furthermore be part of the team.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Meg

[jcoop513 he/him]

@Meg I was thinking of the scene after Kaladin first used the Parshendi Carapace armor as a distraction for the archers:

 

Where was Shen?

There. He was sitting on the rocks, distant, staring forward. Kaladin approached with the others. The parshman looked up at him, face a mask of pain, tears streaking his cheeks. He looked at Kaladin and shuddered visibly, turning away, closing his eyes.

"He sat down like that the moment he saw what you'd done, lad," Teft said, rubbing his chin. "Might not be good for bridge runs anymore."

--TWoK Chapter 62 "Three Glyphs"

 

He may not have been aware of the rest of the bridge crews participation later, but he still had a pretty strong reaction against Kaladin.  Either Shen has a short memory (@Argent's point about weak memory formation capabilities), or he's been able to get over Kaladin's behavior since then (@hoser's point about understand the necessity and the value of the desecration of the Parshendi bodies).  Of course, maybe he's just pretending to accept Kaladin; we don't know how smart or devious he is at this point (not that I really believe that, just throwing out the possibility).

[bartbug he/him]

I'm kind of seeing parallels between Shen and (Aiden?) from Elantris. Or at least, I'm seeing potential characters. I mean, as he is now, he's more of a pet then anything else, but I could see him getting his intelligence back and helping them out during the climax of the book, be it this one or any other SA book.

[sooyangi]

I also think it's interesting that Shen got a uniform (I'm assuming he wore it as well). Or maybe it's not, I don't know. Shen isn't a servant anymore but he isn't a Parshendi warrior either. It makes for some interesting future character development.