dionysus Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 I just hope people believe him and he shares what he knows. No one sharing information and no one believing each other in the face of world ending conflict got old in Wheel of Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Am I the only one to interpret this as we actually have another shard besides Honor an Cultivation? That is still alive? What if this is *before* Odium came? If Brayse is his home-base, he never technically "ruled" on Roshar. Yesterday I advanced a theory that the 4 corners of the KR chart belong to 4 types of spren: windrunners have honorspren, edgedancers have cultivationspren, lightweavers have cryptics, and stonewardens have another 100% spren. Cryptics and the stonewardens spren are 100% Ado-spren and the unamed shard, respectively. These are the 4 "pillars", the other orders have "mixed" spren. No, the "there was another Shard on Roshar" theory is pretty common. On that first quote the common interpretation, which I am very certain is correct, is that there are two Shards on Roshar, Honor and Cultivation, but one of them, Honor, is splintered. My interpretation of the Words of Brandon on this is that the three who are referenced there are Honor, Cultivation, and Odium. He has said that Honor and Cultivation came together and that Odium arrived later. No mention, not even a hint, of another shard being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Also, it is important to note that although Odium hangs out on Braize, there is not yet any indication that he has invested there. In contrast, we do know that he has a significant portion of his power tied up on Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Also, it is important to note that although Odium hangs out on Braize, there is not yet any indication that he has invested there. In contrast, we do know that he has a significant portion of his power tied up on Roshar. I think it'll be interesting to see (though more books) exactly the nature of the shards with regards to movement. With the exception of Odium, each shard seems to have found a relatively stable place and put down roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Taln is going to have a very difficult time persuading people of his identity. His arrival was strange enough that I expect people will listen to him, but believing him is another matter entirely. Probably his best bet would be to get whoever is locally in charge to kick it up the chain to Dalinar, but he likely has no reason to believe Dalinar would be more likely to listen to him than someone who is actually present. I expect he's going to spend most of WoR in a cell, ceaselessly badgering the guards. Sure, he could break out, but where would he go? I foresee him getting out in one of two ways: either he makes enough of a bother of himself that someone mentions it to Dalinar, who promptly has him brought to the Shattered Plains, or the Desolation begins and someone puts two and two together and proceeds to release him, apologize profusely, and beg for his help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I actually hope Taln figures out a way to quickly convince those around him that he is speaking the truth. I find it more interesting when the characters are (mostly) aware of their dire situation and have to struggle to overcome it, in spite of the terrible odds. As opposed to the characters refusing the acknowledge the pile of cremleavings they are in, and then having to deal with it all at once because they are were too uninformed, stubborn, or stupid to take the appropriate (but by definition, not sufficient) precaution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I for one don't think Taln will find it hard to convince people. I'm sure he has all sorts of fun things he can do, especially since he still has his Honorblade. I also find it unlikely that someone could keep his Honorblade away from him against his will, and if he has his Blade no cell could hold him. It's stated that they're weapons of power even beyond Shardblades. You'd think Tanavast would have built in a call-home mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Well, Vorinism teaches that they won the last desolation already. So I don't find it terribly difficult to believe that people will reject information that doesn't agree with their beliefs. Kholinar is Dalinars princedom, but it's also the seat of the king. The person left in charge is likely going to be Elhokars queen of which we have seen nothing so far. I can assure you that Taln will have to prove he is who he says, because the queens ardents are going to be rather disdainful of Talns claim. How well he is received will depend on how convincing his proof is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeljafrombg Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi everyone, first time poster here. I will just toss this as an idea, I have no idea if it has been proposed before (or if it should be discussed here): This had me thinking though. One of the epigraphs reads approximately "the burdens of nine become mine." Damnation must have a very interesting torture mechanisms, if the absence of the other Heralds somehow amplifies Taln's pain. If that's what this is referring to. I don't have any real evidence, but I think that the torture is not more intensive just longer than usual. If I had to guess, I'd say 10 times longer since he was the only Herald in Damnation (or wherever they actually go between Desolations) this time round. It would also explain why this Desolation is so long in coming, say, if the Heralds need to be subjected to a "fixed" amount of torture between Desolations (in accordance with the Oathpact perhaps?) and there is only one instead of ten... It's just an idle thought, so don't be upset if this is outright wrong or something... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I think Wit is there for a reason. He is opposed to Odium, apparently, so I don't think he wants Taln buried in a cell. He is a lighteyes with status in the court, possibly an awesome weapon and access to more magic than we know. I think he will make sure that Taln is freed and invited to the Shattered Plains soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alaxel Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I don't know the specifics of Lightweaving, but a fairly simple solution for Hoid would be to use Lightweaving to cause Taln's eyes to appear to be very light. If that type of illusion is within the capabilities of Ligbtweaving, that is. Edited November 7, 2013 by Alaxel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I think Wit is there for a reason. He is opposed to Odium, apparently, so I don't think he wants Taln buried in a cell. He is a lighteyes with status in the court, possibly an awesome weapon and access to more magic than we know. I think he will make sure that Taln is freed and invited to the Shattered Plains soon. I could see this being the case very easily. I doubt that Hoid would need to draw steel or use magic. I think his position and his ability to make other people look stupid will be more than satisfactory to clear a path through the opposition in the queens court and get Taln an audience with the queen. I believe that between them, they can convince the queen that the danger is real enough. I still think that they will encounter quite a bit of resistance, and that there will still be quite a few skeptics in the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I just have the feeling that the queen is working for/with Mr. T... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 If Taln can infuse he allways could do the "make my eyes shine with a light color" trick and convice the people that at least he was some powers that are associeted with Heralds and/or Radiants, what for sure would help prove his point. In true I'm more worried by the opossite. There is some organizations that are well aware of the eminent desolation, and to capture and/or kill a potential herald could be very useful, so if Taln let his guard down he could end in another "dammation" even before he could help the humans protect the wolrd against the EverStorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistsofrage Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Anyone think Taln was ambushed by darkness dude? Seems plausible that one or more of the Heralds may have attacked him... Just a thought. I figured he was tired because of his time in purgatory, but his "I have failed" line makes me think something may have held him up or he lost a fight or both Edited November 7, 2013 by Fistsofrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcoop513 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Interesting. I originally thought this was someone with a shardblade that died speaking prophetic words at his death since the shardblade remained. However, with Wit there welcoming him (despite calling him confused after he named himself), it really seems to be Taln; just arriving from the place between desolations, still wet like a newly formed shardblade, perhaps after being tortured and weakened to such a state. Have we seen normal shardblades remain after the users' death, and heralds' shardblades disappear after death along with the user so far, or am I mistaken? Then again, maybe there's a delay before the body/shardblade disappears if he really is dead/dying. Or perhaps they won't return this time with the Oathpact broken. Perhaps his role is over after proclaiming the desolation has arrived; but then again, maybe not... Edited November 7, 2013 by jcoop513 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I just have the feeling that the queen is working for/with Mr. T... Huh? I'm not sure we've had more than three sentences about the queen thus far. What makes you think she's working for Taravangian? or are you referring to Thaidakar? Anyone think Taln was ambushed by darkness dude? Seems plausible that one or more of the Heralds may have attacked him... Not yet. I think he just barely stepped out of Shadesmar before arriving at the gate. No one saw him approach the gate, and I believe that Kholinar is an ancient city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistsofrage Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Huh? I'm not sure we've had more than three sentences about the queen thus far. What makes you think she's working for Taravangian? or are you referring to Thaidakar? Not yet. I think he just barely stepped out of Shadesmar before arriving at the gate. No one saw him approach the gate, and I believe that Kholinar is an ancient city. Hmm, its possible. Any ideas why he thinks he's failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alaxel Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 There is some significance to the fact that he say's that he specifically failed, rather than saying we, the Heralds, have failed. A small speculation I have is that he also broke the Oathpact. That Odium knew Taln was the only one keeping the Oathpact together and offered to release him from his torment back to Roshar if he agreed to abandon the Oathpact. Perhaps Taln resolved to bear the burdens of the other nine Heralds, but just couldn't quiet bring himself to suffer through the full duration. An entirely baseless theory, yes. But it's not terribly implausible, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistsofrage Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 There is some significance to the fact that he say's that he specifically failed, rather than saying we, the Heralds, have failed. A small speculation I have is that he also broke the Oathpact. That Odium knew Taln was the only one keeping the Oathpact together and offered to release him from his torment back to Roshar if he agreed to abandon the Oathpact. Perhaps Taln resolved to bear the burdens of the other nine Heralds, but just couldn't quiet bring himself to suffer through the full duration. An entirely baseless theory, yes. But it's not terribly implausible, either. Its a good theory but I'm fond of the idea that Taln stuck with it and didn't break. The lone hero that didn't subscribe to mob mentality and stayed the course. Good to know someone did the right thing even though he got doomed doing it. If Kaladin hears about it he's sure to get fired up. What's the phrase? That thing Kaladin's father said? Someone needs to do the right thing simply because its right. Someone needs to show the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think he failed to prevent the Desolation from happening. I don't think he could have stopped it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't feel guilty for failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) It seems incredibly unlikely to me that any of the Heralds would attack Taln. If for no other reason than they abandoned him as much as they did the Oathpact. They would have to have fallen very far before they'd attack him. Why would you crap on the dude that just took your licking for the last 4500 years? Edited November 8, 2013 by Shardlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I agree - it seems very unlikely to me that any Herald would do harm to Taln. I would not at all be surprised if they all still feel a little guilty for what they did to him. @jcoop513, normal Shardblades don't disappear when they owner dies. If they had been dismissed at the time, they appear close to the body; if they had been summoned, nothing exciting happens. See Szeth vs. Gavilar and Kaladin vs. the unknown Shardbearer. We also know that Honorblades do disappear with their owner's death, from Kalak's viewpoint in the prelude. He doesn't say whether they disappear the moment the Herald dies, but it would make sense. Or, rather, it wouldn't make sense for them to linger around - there is no reason for that. @Alaxel, this is pretty much what I was thinking. There isn't much Taln can fail at while in Damnation (or wherever else he is). I don't think the Heralds are meant to, or even can, prevent the Desolations while in their realm of torture. They seem more like champions who show up just before a Desolation starts and then aid humanity in minimizing the damage and hopefully not lose the world to Odium in the process. The only thing I can see Taln failing at is the timing of his departure from Damnation. He either left too early (because, for example, he broke before the torture), in which case he failed to resist the torment; or he left too late (because, for example, the Heralds have to fight their way out when a Desolation approaches), in which case he failed to... well, leave on time and prepare humankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) It seems incredibly unlikely to me that any of the Heralds would attack Taln. If for no other reason than they abandoned him as much as they did the Oathpact. They would have to have fallen very far before they'd attack him. Why would you crap on the dude that just took your licking for the last 4500 years? What are one more a sin to a lost soul ? The heralds already made poor Taln eat the bread that the devil stepped on for 4500 years!!!!! If there is enough humanity in all the heralds together to fill a cup I would be suprised. Quoting Kaladin there is no great sin to betray out bother-in-arms =) Edited November 8, 2013 by Natans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 It seems incredibly unlikely to me that any of the Heralds would attack Taln. If for no other reason than they abandoned him as much as they did the Oathpact. They would have to have fallen very far before they'd attack him. Why would you crap on the dude that just took your licking for the last 4500 years? Unless thye have fallen so far that they believe killing him will prevent / delay the Desolation. Some of them (well 1.. maybe) seem of have completely given up on morality / emotions etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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