Reviving a dead topic: Szeth's Shardblade is an Honourblade

[Aminar]

The other option is Elhokar's shardblade is type 3. We know that like an honorblade it's covered in runes, but it might be something else. Not an honorblade but a... Something special blade, I guess.

[Aminar]

Jezrien's order has sapphires as their gemtype. Szeth's Blade turns his eyes blue/azure. There's quite a few connections here; if it's going to be anyone's Honorblade, Jezrien's seems most likely.

I know. I mean, I don't think Jezrian reclaimed his. I think it was one of the 8 left in Shin.

[hoser]

I know. I mean, I don't think Jezrian reclaimed his. I think it was one of the 8 left in Shin.

There are a number of possibilities. 

• Did any of the Heralds unbond their blades (or does that even work with Honorblades)? 
• We know that someone went back and got their Honorblade.  Did they get any other Honorblades?
• When Kalak comes to the meetingplace, Jezrien didn't know if he had survived.  Jezrien's blade is not with the others.  If Jezrien was planning on leaving the blade, why didn't he plant it in the circle with the others?  If Kalak hadn't shown, would he have planted his blade? 

[flyleaffan]

Ok, so it looks to me like this information has not been posted, so I'd like to chip in to this topic. 

 

 

“In the past,” Jasnah said, “the Desolation—the coming of the Voidbringers—was supposedly always marked by a return of the Heralds to prepare mankind. They would train the Knights Radiant, who would experience a rush of new members.”

 

This passage states that the heralds trained each of the orders, so they must have had those powers in order to train their respective orders. 

 

 

“I am the only honorspren who has come,” Syl said. “I…” She seemed to be stretching to remember. “I was forbidden. I came anyway. To find you.”

 

Syl stated she was the only honorspren to come over from the Cognitive Realm. We know Kaladin is a Windrunner and that Szeth has Windrunner powers. But he has no spren. Could the honorblades impart the surgebinding abilities to their holders? That would explain Szeth having the Windrunner powers without the Nahel bond. I had created a related topic here in which I posited that Szeth was a Herald. It seems more likely that he simply has the honorblade. 

 

 

Edit: And if anyone could tell me how I can get the chapters into the quote heading, that would be great. 

Edited January 31, 2014 by flyleaffan

[Bremen]

Perhaps Hoid's blade counts as a type of shardblade?

[Aether]

Perhaps Hoid's blade counts as a type of shardblade?

I have never considered this. But if so, why would he keep his in a sheath? I suppose you could somehow make an invested sheath, so that the blade wouldn't just cut through it, but that would be quite a stretch. Also, there's that theory that his sword is an Awakened Blade...

[hoser]

How would you keep a Shardblade in a scabbard? I guess you could make the scabbard out of Shardplate, but that might look rather odd.  If the blade touches the side of the scabbard, it goes right through, then through whatever is nearby, including the person who just accidentally jostled you. 

[Aether]

How would you keep a Shardblade in a scabbard? I guess you could make the scabbard out of Shardplate, but that might look rather odd.  If the blade touches the side of the scabbard, it goes right through, then through whatever is nearby, including the person who just accidentally jostled you. 

We have a WoB somewhere that invested objects are more resistant to the different types of investiture. Presumably, this is the main reason Shardplate protects against it. Thus, hypothetically, an (strongly) Awakened sheath could be immune to a Shardblade's searing.

 

EDIT: I think there are other WoBs that might more directly support my suggested hypothesis, but this one should give a general idea of what I'm talking about:

(slightly shortened for the convenience:)

NALESEAN

Why are invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson

1.) The ability to push/pull an invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the investiture.

<source>

Edited January 30, 2014 by Aether

[hoser]

We have a WoB somewhere that invested objects are more resistant to the different types of investiture. Presumably, this is the main reason Shardplate protects against it. Thus, hypothetically, an (strongly) Awakened sheath could be immune to a Shardblade's searing.

Good point! 

Szeth seems to think that, even when heavily infused, he is vulnerable to a Shardblade.  I think it may take investiture + resistant purpose, as Shardplate has.  Shardblades seem special that way, as I think an infused Kaladin will be immune to Szeth's lashing-traps. 

As long as you awakened the scabbard with a resistant purpose, it seems like it might work. 

[Aether]

Good point! 

Szeth seems to think that, even when heavily infused, he is vulnerable to a Shardblade.  I think it may take investiture + resistant purpose, as Shardplate has.  Shardblades seem special that way, as I think an infused Kaladin will be immune to Szeth's lashing-traps. 

As long as you awakened the scabbard with a resistant purpose, it seems like it might work. 

I am not entirely certain that it would have to be invested for that specific purpose at all. As long as it is invested strongly enough, even if it's entire "purpose" is just to sing beautifully when prompted, or something, it should still provide resistance to a Shardblade. In my understanding, it is the amount of investiture that makes the difference, not the direct purpose of the investment (though a invested object made specifically for this might prove more effective at it).

[hoser]

I agree.  A scabbard awakened with either a protective purpose+similar investiture or a "much" greater investiture might work. 

I enjoyed realizing why Shardblades are stored in Shardlet's attic and not scabbarded. 

I don't know that it matters, as I am hoping that Wit's sword turn out to be awakened rather than a Shardblade.  Nightblood seems to operate differently than a Shardblade.

I am not entirely certain that it would have to be invested for that specific purpose at all. As long as it is invested strongly enough, even if it's entire "purpose" is just to sing beautifully when prompted, or something, it should still provide resistance to a Shardblade. In my understanding, it is the amount of investiture that makes the difference, not the direct purpose of the investment (though a invested object made specifically for this might prove more effective at it).

Edited January 31, 2014 by hoser

[Aether]

I agree.  A scabbard awakened with either a protective purpose+similar investiture or a "much" greater investiture might work. 

I enjoyed realizing why Shardblades are stored in Shardlet's attic and not scabbarded. 

While only a Shardlet, and not a full Shard, his attic should still be sufficiently invested to keep them from cutting into the floor. Honour or Cultivation's attic would protect them in a similar way, but considering Honour's untimely demise, I am glad they agreed to keep them in a neutral space - away from Odium's reach.

[Bremen]

I did not mean that Hoid does not have an awakened blade, as that seems quite likely, but rather that an awakened blade counts as a type of shardblade.

 

My current belief is that shardblades are shards of the KR's soul.  As such an awakened blade, being made of pieces of 1000 souls, isn't so different.

[Cheese Ninja]

I wouldn't consider Awakened blades to be the same thing as Shardblades, even if does make the "3 types of Shardblade" a lot easier to deal with.

 

I really want to know what Command Yesteel used to Awaken his blades, Hoid's sword in Way of Kings doesn't seem to be anything special, so either that is not the Awakened sword, or Hoid somehow is shielding its effects, or it simply doesn't have the additional abilities that Nightblood has, like its own Biochroma, sentience, or tendency to draw evil people to it.  Plus, there's my somewhat crazy theory that Yesteel harvested Divine Breaths to Awaken his swords.  Possibly by running a Returned baby mill.

 

I hope Hoid explains at least a bit when he beats up Sadeas(?) in the epilogue in of Words of Radiance. (slight speculation)  On the other hand, if he explains too much, it would kind of ruin any big twists we might see in Nightblood.(the novel)

[WeiryWriter]

Edit: And if anyone could tell me how I can get the chapters into the quote heading, that would be great. 

 

Unfortunately I don't think it's possible, at least I've never found a way.

[Morsk]

Do you mean this? Or am I totally misunderstanding the question?

[quote name="Way of Kings, Chapter 37"]
“Dung,” Kal said stubbornly. “It has spren?”
“I suppose it does.”
“Dungspren,” Tien said, then snickered.
[/quote]

“Dung,” Kal said stubbornly. “It has spren?”

“I suppose it does.”

“Dungspren,” Tien said, then snickered.

I don't know how to do it in the fancy editor. I only use the text one.

[flyleaffan]

Do you mean this? Or am I totally misunderstanding the question?

[quote name="Way of Kings, Chapter 37"]
“Dung,” Kal said stubbornly. “It has spren?”
“I suppose it does.”
“Dungspren,” Tien said, then snickered.
[/quote]

I don't know how to do it in the fancy editor. I only use the text one.

 

yeah. that's what I'm looking for. Thank you. I don't need anything more than the text method. 

[Vortaan]

Something from the newest chapters leads me to believe that Szeth doesn't wield an Honorblade. The Parshendi know about Honorblades and are understandably concerned that the Alethi might come across one. They also seemed to be aware of Szeth's powers. So... why would they send Szeth against Gavilar, known to be a formidable warrior, if they are worried about Alethi getting Honorblades? Particularly the only Alethi that they are willing to murder? Look at the fight again between Szeth and Gavilar... Szeth -only- pulls it out because of the balcony. I think Gavilar possibly could have won that if they stayed inside.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Something from the newest chapters leads me to believe that Szeth doesn't wield an Honorblade. The Parshendi know about Honorblades and are understandably concerned that the Alethi might come across one. They also seemed to be aware of Szeth's powers. So... why would they send Szeth against Gavilar, known to be a formidable warrior, if they are worried about Alethi getting Honorblades? Particularly the only Alethi that they are willing to murder? Look at the fight again between Szeth and Gavilar... Szeth -only- pulls it out because of the balcony. I think Gavilar possibly could have won that if they stayed inside.

Yes, they probably wouldn't want to face an Alethi with an honorblade in battle but they are far more scared of what Gavilar was attamepting to do. They'd rather have a surgebinding Alethi than their old gods come back. The fact that Gavilar is so formidable in battle is probably the reason why they chose to send Szeth. It was a one shot deal for them. As soon as they tried to kill Gavilar they'd be at war and wouldn't get a chance at him again before he followed through with whatever plans they feared from him. They had to send Szeth to leave no doubt that the assassination would be successful. Giving the Alethi an honorblade was a risk they were willing to take.

[Bremen]

Something from the newest chapters leads me to believe that Szeth doesn't wield an Honorblade. The Parshendi know about Honorblades and are understandably concerned that the Alethi might come across one. They also seemed to be aware of Szeth's powers. So... why would they send Szeth against Gavilar, known to be a formidable warrior, if they are worried about Alethi getting Honorblades? Particularly the only Alethi that they are willing to murder? Look at the fight again between Szeth and Gavilar... Szeth -only- pulls it out because of the balcony. I think Gavilar possibly could have won that if they stayed inside.

I read it as they were afraid of surgebinders.  The suggestion was Kaladin might have an honorblade instead, with the implication that they weren't worried about that.

[Vortaan]

Yes, they probably wouldn't want to face an Alethi with an honorblade in battle but they are far more scared of what Gavilar was attamepting to do. They'd rather have a surgebinding Alethi than their old gods come back. The fact that Gavilar is so formidable in battle is probably the reason why they chose to send Szeth. It was a one shot deal for them. As soon as they tried to kill Gavilar they'd be at war and wouldn't get a chance at him again before he followed through with whatever plans they feared from him. They had to send Szeth to leave no doubt that the assassination would be successful. Giving the Alethi an honorblade was a risk they were willing to take.

 

I can see an all or nothing situation, however I still think that given the situation, they wouldn't have just left Szeth roaming around with an Honorblade. AT the very least they'd probably keep his Oathstone.

 

I read it as they were afraid of surgebinders.  The suggestion was Kaladin might have an honorblade instead, with the implication that they weren't worried about that.

 

Considering having an Honorblade or facing a Surgebinder is forcing them to consider stormform as an option, I think they are equal threats. Time will tell.

[Cheese Ninja]

If you read the exchange between Eshonai and her sister again, they're clearly more worried about the return of Surgebinders than the Alethi having an Honorblade.  Eshonai is trying to use an Honorblade as an excuse to avoid stormform being adopted.

“If the Surgebinders have returned,” Venli continued, “we must strive for something meaningful, something that can ensure our freedom. The forms of power, Eshonai…”

Basically, the return of Surgebinders has much greater implications for them than the presence of an Honorblade among enemy forces.

“Centuries ago,” Demid said, “we escaped both our gods and the humans. Our ancestors left behind civilization, power, and might in order to secure freedom. I would not give that up, Eshonai. Stormform. With it, we can destroy the Alethi army.”

Kill the man. Kill him, and risk destruction. For if he had lived to do what he told them that night, all would have been lost. The others who had made that decision with her were dead now.

The fear is that if they start using Stormform, they'll fall back under the domain of their "gods" (the Unmade?), which would rob them of their own freedom.

[cris34b]

My personal thoughts always were that using a Shardblade made a darkeye's eyes light for so long as he had the blade summoned. Perhaps repeated use slowly changes the eyes to stay light, and then that gets passed down in the SDNA?

[Aminar]

I think it only grants the rank of lighteyes, not the physical characteristic. Szeth's do, but he calls that a quirk...

[shimwick]

The Stormlight would basically stain the eyes a lighter color if used in large enough amounts frequently. Also, the tradition that a darkeyes who  gets shards would become a light eyes was probably made out of fear by the lighteyes when they first took power after the KR left them, because a lot of darkeyes probably got their hands on Shards, and when the Lighteyes took over, would have attacked. Thus, the lighteyes decided to begin the tradition. 

 

 

On a relatively unrelated topic, would everybody please now scroll to the top and read the heading of this discussion.

Edited February 18, 2014 by shimwick