Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Guest]

Okay, I was the one giving a Seon to Seonid, and Hero said it was noted and that Seon Nae left me. So either he forgot or Seonid is lying, in which case he is probably a Cultist or the Gyorn. I trusted Seonid, though, so I'm just going to assume that Hero forgot until I hear otherwise.

Edit: I asked Hero if the Action actually acted, and I will let you know his response.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Guest

[Kasimir he/him]

Kipper, you're not the only one who seems to have difficulty with actions coming through, so it may be a GM issue, but as you said, I guess, wait and see.

 

Meta has not yet caught up with Elantris, so there is at present no word from Elantris.

 

Seonid, if it's sensitive information, I would highly recommend you pass it to Meta instead, especially if it turns out your PM about receiving Nae hasn't come in yet. Now that Wilson's a convert, you should not entrust her with such information as she could be a crouching Odiv. More importantly, and this is a general reminder to everyone:

 

Practice safe Seon-use. Don't centralise information, and especially do not pass sensitive information to people the Gyorn can target. Meta, at least, is immune to conversion. (Basically, hang on to it, trust no one, and if trusting someone, trust someone who can't become an Odiv. If trusting someone potentially unsafe, only tell them things you don't mind them cutting out your throat with. Kolo?)

 

-

 

As Meta has said, let's start the ball rolling. Clanky. I'd like an answer from last cycle.

 

P.S. I'm going to assume Meta's poisoning was a case of unfriendly fire. Which is good, as it gives us an insight into the likely structure of the Cultist team. It it was instead friendly fire, I'd request for the responsible citizen to step forward now.

Edit:

When burdened; recite the words of the wise: this too, shall pass.

What longing can be salved by the knowledge this too shall pass?

I found the old yew bowing to the outrage of the years

All things wind their way slowly towards death. This too shall pass.

Life is a candle-flame; the instant a bird flits through light

from the open window—and then darkness. This too shall pass.

I watched the decay of the young, the collapse of nations

Even stars burn out and mountains crumble. This too shall pass.

Say, proudly: I hold you in my heart. What can erase you?

The Enemy can’t remove you from me. This too shall pass.

What is man but the faintest ripple in a clear, still pond?

Nothing endures. Nothing lasts. To all things: this too shall pass.

All is transitory; vain, fleeting shadows in the dust.

Do not be deceived by appearances: this too, shall pass.

The wolf-winter comes, Kasimir, and even summer dies,

At the very end, say this to your heart, then: this too shall pass.

Edit 2: Spelling error: mispelled 'team' as 'theme.'

Edited June 5, 2015 by Kasimir

[Wyrmhero he/him]

That is quite possibly the worst we could have expected over night. They've really stifled our ability to detect Cultists, so now we have to rely on our own wits and ingenuity. Domi help us all...

 

Does this actually tell us anything? Well, it tells us they were somewhat scared of being found, but that's probably sensible when you know Meta's one of them. Who did Meta target last night, and did anyone know about that? Did he get to use his ability, or was that countered by the poison?

 

I'm very interested in this Kipper vs. Seonid thing going on here. If Seonid is a Cultist, then it seems silly to try and lynch one person at the expense of yourself like that. But if Kipper is one, then he has denied forgetting, and claimed it's a GM error. So if Seonid doesn't say that he received it later on, then we can assume that either Kipper did not give it away deliberately, or Seonid is lying to get him lynched. Is a person worth a Seon for the Cultist team? I'm not sure.

 

Another thought is that Wonko isn't on the level, and the death of phattemer is a roundabout way of clearing him (as well as getting a Priest out the way). So the question I have is, who knew that phattemer was a Priest? Is it possible that Wonko is our leak?

Edited June 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Kasimir he/him]

So the question I have is, who knew that phattemer was a Priest? Is it possible that Wonko is our leak?

I'm not quite sure I'm following you here, King. Everyone knew Phat was a priest. It was no secret. Phat had been engaged in a [Edit: PM] conversation with Winter on Day 1. He later revealed himself and the roles of those he scanned (including Wilson and Ren) in the Elantris PM. To top it off, Wonko, his contact, revealed that Phat was a Priest to the entire thread in asking us to lynch Zas. (This should be on Day Three, when Phat was publicly outed.)

Contact-tracing yields two main points of contact.

1. Zas. The prime candidate for the lynch a while back, Zas is now Hoed. He has not been cleared, and Phat might've been trying to clear him the night he was murdered. If there was a leak within Elantris when Phat was first attacked, Zas is the likely source as Ren and Neo have been confirmed by Phat, and the first attack happened on Night Two.

2. Wonko. As you pointed out, Wonko was Phat's contact with the thread. I don't deny we should look at Wonko, especially since he was implicated in the miscommunciation involving Zas.

Yet at the same time, again, since everyone knew Phat was the Priest by now, Wonko's contact with Phat cannot itself implicate him for this attack. Zas's can, because we're contact-tracing for the Night Two attack on Phat. Now, with regard to whether Wonko could've been the leak for the Night Two attack, we'd need to clarify the timeline with Elantris further. What Elantris is currently doing about it, I don't know. As soon as I know, y'all will know.

 

Edit: For Wyrm.

 

When the Enemy erased all memory of you, that was the final betrayal.

Here and now, I swear upon the god never to forget: yet another betrayal.

They’re gathering the shattered spears in the desert for another war

While the hyenas and herons pick clean the bones of a king’s betrayal.

Beyond the ash rains, the thirsty pour out water into the desert sands

To surrender to longing, the sage says, is the self’s only betrayal.

How shall I presume? Between temptation—and the prayer—falls the shadow.

Do not lend generously of your trust. Down that path lies only betrayal.

Cast us once more into the world: let us be brothers in lives and lives to come

But remember, Kasimir: the slaying of a brother was the first betrayal.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Kasimir

[Wyrmhero he/him]

I'm not quite sure I'm following you here, King. Everyone knew Phat was a priest. It was no secret. Phat had been engaged in a [Edit: PM] conversation with Winter on Day 1. He later revealed himself and the roles of those he scanned (including Wilson and Ren) in the Elantris PM. To top it off, Wonko, his contact, revealed that Phat was a Priest to the entire thread in asking us to lynch Zas. (This should be on Day Three, when Phat was publicly outed.)

Contact-tracing yields two main points of contact.

1. Zas. The prime candidate for the lynch a while back, Zas is now Hoed. He has not been cleared, and Phat might've been trying to clear him the night he was murdered. If there was a leak within Elantris when Phat was first attacked, Zas is the likely source as Ren and Neo have been confirmed by Phat, and the first attack happened on Night Two.

2. Wonko. As you pointed out, Wonko was Phat's contact with the thread. I don't deny we should look at Wonko, especially since he was implicated in the miscommunciation involving Zas.

Yet at the same time, again, since everyone knew Phat was the Priest by now, Wonko's contact with Phat cannot itself implicate him for this attack. Zas's can, because we're contact-tracing for the Night Two attack on Phat. Now, with regard to whether Wonko could've been the leak for the Night Two attack, we'd need to clarify the timeline with Elantris further. What Elantris is currently doing about it, I don't know. As soon as I know, y'all will know.

Edit: For Wyrm.

When the Enemy erased all memory of you, that was the final betrayal.

Here and now, I swear upon the god never to forget: yet another betrayal.

They’re gathering the shattered spears in the desert for another war

While the hyenas and herons pick clean the bones of a king’s betrayal.

Beyond the ash rains, the thirsty pour out water into the desert sands

To surrender to longing, the sage says, is the self’s only betrayal.

How shall I presume? Between temptation—and the prayer—falls the shadow.

Do not lend generously of your trust. Down that path lies only betrayal.

Cast us once more into the world: let us be brothers in lives and lives to come

But remember, Kasimir: the slaying of a brother was the first betrayal.

Sorry, I should have clarified a bit more. I know that phattemer's role was public knowledge, I was just trying to trace it back to where that came from. from what I recall, Wonko revealed his role because the Eliminators knew it anyway - I am just wondering how they learnt it. I think it's important to go back over this, since it apparently wasn't looked at too closely at the time. Hence my question - who knew and is implicated by that first attack? I am aware that no-one is especially implicated by this one any more than anyone else. Edited June 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[Kasimir he/him]

Sorry, I should have clarified a bit more. I know that phattemer's role was public knowledge, I was just trying to trace it back to where that came from. from what I recall, Wonko revealed his role because the Eliminators knew it anyway - I am just wondering how they learnt it. I think it's important to go back over this, since it apparently wasn't looked at too closely at the time. Hence my question - who knew and is implicated by that first attack? I am aware that no-one is especially implicated by this one any more than anyone else.

Fair enough. The working assumption is that the Night 2 strike on Phat was a targeted strike. If we're contact-tracing for Night 2, there are really just several culprits:

1. Winter

Phat was in contact with her through Seon Ien on Day One. Unknown if he accidentally leaked his own role. Ren said Phat hadn't answered that the last I spoke to him in yesterday's PM.

2. Ren, Neo

Cleared. Ren was in PMs with Winter on Night 1 and Night 3 but he did not betray Phat's role. While Neo might've inadvertently been the leak (Elantrians, can you confirm this through Meta, please?), it seems, at the moment, unlikely. In eithter case, Ren and Neo have both been cleared.

3. Wonko

Questionable, depending on whether he contacted Phat prior to/on Night 2. Again, I'd like Elantrian confirmation on this, but if that's the case, then he can't have been the leak either.

4. Zas

Again, the main leading culprit: has not been cleared and has become Hoed.

If it has not been looked at closely, it was because of the miscommunication with Wonko and the distraction from the Maili and Winter lynch. Yesterday, the plan was for the Elantrians to settle the matter by scanning Zas just in case the leak really had been Phat. [The original plan had been to scan Neo and lynch Zas to find out, but upon recalling that Winter had contacted Phat, Ren favoured scanning Zas rather than a LAFO.] Upon Phat's death and Meta's temporary stay in Elantris, it is likely that the matter will be settled one way or another unless you'd like to lynch Zas and find out.

[Bort he/him]

Seonid, I can get in contact with you tonight. I'm in contact with Meta right now so it's not possible. Does that work?

Edit: You may also want some information I have.

 

 

1. Reminder from Meta: Cycle now shorter--discuss urgently find Cultists.

2. Seonid, Meta should be getting in contact with you. I've passed him my Seon.

REMINDER: Trust no one. Need to know basis only. People confirmed by Meta can still become Odivs. Practice Seon safety!

 

I know I'm in Elantris, and so not supposed to be posting in this thread, but I have a question or two about Seon use from these posts, and figured that a clarification post in here would be forgiven.

 

From what Kasimir has said, he started a conversation with Meta this cycle, but has also given his seon to Meta, and asked him to contact Seonid.

 

Can you use a Seon and then gift it in the same cycle? I'd have thought if you used it, you then wouldn't be able to gift it in the same cycle.

 

Or would it be a case of use it this cycle, gift it next cycle, then Meta can use it the cycle after that?

 

I'd like clarification on this as it sounds like Kasimir's Seon is one busy bunny.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Bort

[Seonid he/him]

Kipper, I posted before I got the PM. I was impatient, I suppose. Chalk it up to inexperience. Sorry about that.

 

I've contacted Wilson. When she gets on thread, she can verify this.

[Kasimir he/him]

I'd like clarification on this as it sounds like Kasimir's Seon is one busy bunny.

Comrade [sEONNAME] understands the importance of hard labour. For the future of Arelon! Workers of Arelon, unite! Arbeiter des Arelons, vereinigt euch!

Edited June 5, 2015 by Kasimir

[Guest]

@Wyrm and Kas

The reason I think this is a GM error is that I don't gain an advantage from lying about the Seon, if I am a Cultist. Neither does Seonid (I think). If she has the Seon, it makes absolutely no sense to me why she would lie about it. Just think about it. Set aside the possible I Know You Know and try to think of a SINGLE advantage that either of us would gain. I can't think of a one. That Seon is tainted now. Of course, if we were both Cultists, and Seonid were trying to sacrifice me, this might be a viable strategy, but it's just so bizarre, and that's why I think it's a GM error.

Is Bort allowed to do that?

Edit: Ninja'd by Seonid. Thanks Seonid, and don't worry about it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Guest

[little wilson she/her]

I'm on my phone, so I'm not going to say much, but yes, I've got a PM from Seonid (still need to read it though). And yes I've been converted but the Gyorn would be stupid to make me his Odiv as it is literally impossible that I'm going to survive this game.

[Kasimir he/him]

@Wyrm and Kas

The reason I think this is a GM error is that I don't gain an advantage from lying about the Seon, if I am a Cultist. Neither does Seonid (I think). If she has the Seon, it makes absolutely no sense to me why she would lie about it. Just think about it. Set aside the possible I Know You Know and try to think of a SINGLE advantage that either of us would gain. I can't think of a one. That Seon is tainted now. Of course, if we were both Cultists, and Seonid were trying to sacrifice me, this might be a viable strategy, but it's just so bizarre, and that's why I think it's a GM error.

Got to say, I think you're misreading me. I was agreeing with you because you're not the only one I've heard of with these problems (see: missing action), in this cycle. Let's leave it at that. What I was saying was that I'd rather wait for your confirmation from Hreo since I haven't heard anything on my end. You're more likely to get back faster. That is all.

[Guest]

And here I thought you hated I Know You Knows.

Mark my words, double conversions will start tonight or next night, to place suspicion on Wilson. And then we'll go, "Nah, it can't be. Too obvious." And then she WILL be the Odiv.

Edit: Referring to Wilson. Kas ninja'd me.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Guest

[Herowannabe he/him]

I know I'm in Elantris, and so not supposed to be posting in this thread, but I have a question or two about Seon use from these posts, and figured that a clarification post in here would be forgiven.

From what Kasimir has said, he started a conversation with Meta this cycle, but has also given his seon to Meta, and asked him to contact Seonid.

Can you use a Seon and then gift it in the same cycle? I'd have thought if you used it, you then wouldn't be able to gift it in the same cycle.

Or would it be a case of use it this cycle, gift it next cycle, then Meta can use it the cycle after that?

I'd like clarification on this as it sounds like Kasimir's Seon is one busy bunny.

Gifting happens at the very end of a phase, so you CAN use it the same turn you gift it. The recipient won't receive the Seon until the beginning of the next phase, at which point they could use it.

Is Bort allowed to do that?

technically, no.

@Bort (and any other Elantrians) from now on, if you have any rule clarification or OOG material to post, please PM Tulir and/or me directly and request that the reply be posted in the main thread.

Edit: and in case anyone was wondering, all PMs for the rollover were sent out by 12:42am MDT this morning, roughly 7 1/2 hours ago.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Herowannabe

[little wilson she/her]

This move was with the priests was a clever one. Killing one priest who the Cultists were pretty sure would be unprotected due to the call for the Warriors to protect him last night and then poisoning the other one? Worked rather well for the poor luck they’ve had the past couple cycles. Not to mention it was very clever. Now, that leads me to wonder who could’ve orchestrated that and why didn’t they do anything like that earlier? Perhaps because it’s a pinch-hitter. Someone like ]Wyrm.

 

Since he took over for Aonar, Wyrm hasn’t said much this game. And Aonar didn’t either. He was exceedingly quiet before he withdrew. Now, Aonar has a tendency to go quiet when he’s an eliminator. Sure, he goes quiet occasionally when he’s on team good, but that’s fairly rare. But the last two games he was an eliminator in, he went almost dead silent. Inactive silent. Lurker silent.

 

While I’d love to think that his replacement was evidence of his Cultist nature, this is the first game we’ve had pinch-hitters, so I won’t do that. However, I do find it interesting that around the time Aonar would’ve decided to be replaced, Winter mentioned to me she might want to bail on the game and get a pinch-hitter. Perhaps because she heard it in the doc? Perhaps because her team was talking about it, since Aonar was unable to plan as much as he would’ve liked? I’d also like to note that there was specific mention of activity in the doc not affecting a player’s ability to be replaced. So he could totally help his team until Wyrm took over, though since he had so much going on in real life, he likely couldn’t do much.

 

That’s all that I’ve got on Aonar, though. So now let’s look at Wyrm. I’m going to ignore his analysis since that’s all it was and it really tells us nothing. The post I’m interested in is his first post this turn. Now, perhaps I’m the only one who felt this, but there’s an undertone there that is very off. My hackles raised almost from the first paragraph when I read it the first time. And it hasn’t died down as I’ve re-read it. I can even pick out where I’m left wondering.

 

That is quite possibly the worst we could have expected over night. They've really stifled our ability to detect Cultists, so now we have to rely on our own wits and ingenuity. Domi help us all...

It’s the second sentence here that strikes me as off. I’m not entirely sure what it is, but the first clause reminds me slightly of a self-congratulation, and the last clause is redundant. We were always supposed to be analyzing and discussing in the thread. Using our “wit and ingenuity”. This was never about a follow the cop strategy and Meta said that last night. Even before Meta revealed himself, we’ve been discussing. So why is this new? “Domi help us all”? Nice vote of confidence in the village there. Mistakes are common in the early game for the village. Mislynches happen. The point is, we’ve continued discussing and trying to figure out what’s going on in the thread. Sure, the Priest helped us catch the first Cultist, which is fantastic. That’s progress. But we don’t need the priest to win. He’s just a great boon.

 

The next bit that interests me is mention of Seonid and Kipper. That screams of a massive attempt at redirection to me. He’s trying to make it seem like Kipper is a Cultist, and uses the PM blame as the reason? Huh? A true villager would let it wait and see what the GM said or how Kipper reported back. An eliminator might take this opportunity to throw suspicion onto two innocents, so even when the GM does report back, people are still going “Hm. Maybe there is something funky there.” The point is, Kipper/Seonid was a non-issue at this point, until we heard from Hero. So why bring it up? Why direct focus there?

 

And lastly is that whole paragraph on Wonko:

Another thought is that Wonko isn't on the level, and the death of phattemer is a roundabout way of clearing him (as well as getting a Priest out the way). So the question I have is, who knew that phattemer was a Priest? Is it possible that Wonko is our leak?

I doubt Wonko is a Cultist. Highly doubt it. If he was, I think he would’ve been a little more hesitant to reveal to the thread about Phatt being a Priest. Learning that kind of information, he would’ve been in the doc, consulting on how best to reveal what he had learned and “OH MY GOSH, WE’VE FOUND A PRIEST!!!” Additionally, he contacted me that next night, and I very nearly gave him some incredibly sensitive information. I was this close to telling him something important. He told me to have caution, because he couldn’t guarantee that he wouldn’t leak it accidentally. Now, he’s since said that he wanted that information just as much as any Cultist, but I really think a Cultist wouldn’t have cautioned me against it, and if he were a Cultist, he would’ve been sure to keep it well-contained from other villagers, because it’s sensitive information, and the Cultists don’t want the village knowing all the sensitive information about other villagers. They want that information for themselves. Better to kill us with. Wonko’s not a Cultist. If Wonko is an eliminator, Wonko is the Gyorn, but I’m not even convinced of that either.

 

No, I suspect that the leak came from Zas, who is likely an eliminator. I doubt it came from Winter. If Phatt had directly told Winter what he was, he would’ve told the rest of the Elantrians that, and Ren would’ve told Kas. If Phatt indicated anything about his role, it would’ve been more as a subtle hint, and since the Cultists cannot c/p PMs into the doc, the Cultists wouldn’t have been able to read between the lines for her. She would’ve had to pick up on it herself. And I have reason to believe she didn’t. Mostly because I said something to her in our PM on her last day, very subtly, about another player, but I guarantee that if her teammates had seen it, someone else would’ve been attacked. That tells me that the leak was probably from within Elantris.

 

Which brings me to a question about something Winter said: Renegade, Winter said she contacted you on the first night, and when she relayed to me what you’d told her, she said you thought that Elantris was clean. That you guys started uninfiltrated. Did you say that? If Meta and Kas could relay his answer, that would be fantastic and will give us a better idea. If he didn’t say that, she was trying to get us (or at least me) convinced that all three starting Elantrians were clean when they weren’t. If that’s the case, Ren and Neo have been confirmed good, so it has to be Zas.

 

Not that I suggest we go after Zas right now. If he’s truly an eliminator, he’s crippled by his Hoed speech in the doc. We need to take out the bigger strategists first. If I’m right about Wyrm, he should be first. He’s far too clever to be left alive when evil. Though I still suspect Luckat is a Cultist as well. She’s been far too quiet. And if that’s right, I’ve no doubt she’s contributing some deadly plans too. Still, Wyrm is the bigger threat.

Edited June 5, 2015 by little wilson
crappy coding is crappy

[Clanky he/him]

@kas, I would have been worried about a prince/princess if I were the only one to not vote. However since I wasn't the only person who didn't vote it wouldn't really matter. I suppose I could have put a last minute vote on winter in case a prince/princess tried to use their power on me and wasn't online to change it but I doubt it. They've had inactives to use for that and I don't know why that would change now.

 

EDIT:grammar

Edited June 5, 2015 by Clanky

[Kasimir he/him]

Just to check: is 17S hanging for everyone else or is it just my internet? :S I keep having to refresh pages constantly just to be able to even see part of it.

Seriously guys, as Meta and Ren have been urging, we need to get some discussion in. So far, three names have come up. Just three. What happened to all the suspicion lists? What gives, guys?

We’ve lost Phat, it’s a shorter cycle, and Meta’s currently enjoying the accomodations in Hotel Elantris. Okay. That’s kind of an ouch. But we’ve got to move on and hold up our end of things. I’m a bit worried about those who’ve been flying under the radar: in particular, Luckat, Araris and Clanky, with Karlin and Ostrich being on the more egregious end. And Jain—you’re being remiss as a fellow member of the Inquisition. What gives?

While I have objections to the rationality of Clanky's response, they don't matter here as we're not a class on political philosophy, much less Downs paradox. So I'm not going to make further comment.

[Wyrmhero he/him]

I haven't said much this game? I made a long post on the Night Cycle, and I've been rather active today. Now, while it's nice that you hold me in such high esteem (or feel such abject terror towards me), I'm afraid it's another case of the AG here. Why haven't I said much so far? Generally because I'm not entirely sure what's going on. I need to gather information from the last four Cycles before I can do anything, and as you've already pointed out, that can lead to mistakes when one looks back over things without being too careful, which I admit I am not. I make mistakes, as you should know by now . Mistakes I probably wouldn't be making if I was in contact with other players outside the thread, for that matter.

 

Besides, the last two times I've been an Eliminator, I've been incredibly chatty. My being quiet isn't an indicator of whatever side I am on, as I generally try to get involved with the discussions and the like no matter what side. True, I could be changing my tactic completely for this game, but with the circumstances around my entrance to it, it's just a matter of me having less to say or hound people over.

 

As for Aonar's inactivity... He did request a pitch hitter. Before doing so, he commented that he was unable to keep up as much as he would like, and that it's not how he usually plays. Now, obviously I've paraphrased that since I can't copy and paste, and there's no way that I can prove to you that Aonar was not being inactive by choice, but I felt I should pass it on. I would also hope that people wouldn't try to abuse the pinch-hitter system, as it's rather unfair to plan to change playstyles in the middle of the game when you're an Eliminator.

 

My analysis 'tells us nothing' because it was an analysis of an Eliminator's actions which were made in such a way as to tell us nothing. Was it a useless post though? Not at all! The fact that it tells us nothing, as you put it, is useful, as it stops people having to go over Winter's post whenever anything happens. It may have been a post with no conclusion, but someone had to reach that lack of conclusion. It might as well have been me.

 

My first post in the thread today has you suspicious, I understand this. However, I did flag up a self-congratulatory aspect of one of Winter's posts in my analysis. You seem to think I'm a good player, so I'd hope you wouldn't think I would fall into the same trap as my supposed-teammate - A trap I've literally pointed out the previous day. The rest of that was more of a wry/sarcastic comment. You should know I personally despise follow-the-cop strategies from previous games, particularly the first one I played in where we had safe roles dictating everything. In the second game I played in, LG5, when I was in a position of power, I went out of my way to trust people and let them know what was going on, rather than get everyone to follow myself and Macen.

 

Why bring up the whole Kipper and Seonid thing? Because it was something that happened which could have required some discussion. I had not checked when the thread went up, and I assumed that all the PMs were out before the thread went up, since that's how I tend to do it when GMing. In retrospect I probably should have to avoid something like this. But, once again, I wasn't quite thinking my actions through. Was it a non-issue? Sure. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been though, and a headstart on that discussion could have been useful. It wasn't though, so it's not. I don't hold the fact that the PM got in later than expected against either of them.

 

My post on Wonko was because I wasn't quite sure what was going on with regards to him and the rest of the people. This is a complicated game and a lot has happened in it already - stuff that I haven't been reading along with. I don't agree with your commentary about the Cultists not wanting the Village to know about the roles we have and who has them though. It's incredibly useful to get information out in the open for them, as they then can use it without worrying about where it's come from. Imagine if, for example, Meta had died last night instead of phattemer (ignoring whether or not he had defences against that). Because Meta gave up his role in public, we would have no suspects with regards to who killed him, because we all knew. That's not the same here as it is with phattemer, but again, I was just trying to puzzle out what happened for myself, not as much for any of the other players.

 

And you say you highly doubt he is a Cultist. That's fine, I think it unlikely too, judging by how long phattemer survived. But he hasn't been confirmed, and you yourself said you 'highly doubt it'. There is still a minute chance that he is, and I think it's important we remember this. You were completely convinced by Claincy in the AG, and look what happened there. Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can bring things back into focus or point out details which were glossed over. My job here isn't just to get new information, but to look at what has been gathered and ask questions about it. The question I asked here was 'is this possible?'. The answer is, apparently, 'yes, but it's highly unlikely. Wait and see what Elantris says'. Good, we can move on from it for the time being. I have removed my vote from him thanks to Kas' comments earlier about what could have happened.

 

Is it possible the leak is from Zas? Yes, all evidence seems to point towards that now, from what you and Kas have been saying. But you've also said it's a bit of a dead end, as we don't particularly care to lynch him right now, and he started the game in Elantris, so we don't have anything of his to analyse here on the thread (correct me if I'm wrong, Night 1 is the first player list I could find).

 

So your alternative to lynching him, which would at least give us some information as to whether he was indeed the leak is for you to lynch the more dangerous players instead. I mostly agree with that, as it is likely that he was the source of the leak, and his death wouldn't tell us much other than confirming that. Plus, with him being Hoed, a clean Elantris isn't too important.

 

We definitely need to take out the rest of the Cultists first before Zas (as well as finding a way to find the Gyorn. Do we have a strategy for that?), but he is at least of use to lynch if we get close to lynch-or-lose. Strangely enough, I disagree that I should be lynched next. You have a grand total of two Turns worth of 'evidence' on me, most of which are simple mistakes I've made, and the rest of it seems to be based on the fact that Aonar was inactive enough not to post and then be replaced. Personally, I'd say it was quite probable that Aonar was inactive enough to realise he needed to request a Pitch-Hitter, and so got replaced, rather than it being some kind of master plan. Then again, I do have access to the PM he requested that in, so I would say that.

 

So the next question would be who I think is suspicious, now that my other ideas have been summarily shot down for being incorrect. I don't have much to say, but I personally would quite like to look at the people Winter placed in the 'Unsure' camp, or at least the ones I couldn't remove from my list. Jain would be my first port of call, but there's already a poke vote on him.

 

I'm going to ask Haelbarde for his suspicions. Winter had him in the Unsure camp, and the only reason I can find for that is because, looking back at least over the past three Cycles, he hasn't actually said anything of import. Most of what he's posted have been questions for the GM, the links (which are useful, I admit) at the start of each Turn, and RP. Now, I know he's said that he's been busy with exams, and I can relate to that for sure. However, I don't get why he has been spending so much time posting roleplay and admin instead of contributing by voting etc. For that matter, the poetry will take a lot of time, and that is time that could have been spent playing the game. Does it mean he's an Eliminator? Maybe not, but I would have expected him to take advantage of the Pitch-Hitter system if he really couldn't actually play the game. My question therefore is how he can find the time to do that but not contribute, even - or especially - with exams.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[little wilson she/her]

My point about your lack of posting wasn't an incrimination actually. You're jumping in 4 cycles in. There's a lot to catch up on. And it's not that the analysis tells us nothing, but that it tells us nothing about you, since that's pretty standard and while there was interpretation of the analysis, it was pretty straightforward. Regardless, that very detailed response has generally assuaged my concerns about you. Really, it was mostly just gut due to that post and a healthy dose of fear that Aonar was evil. Fear of you didn't really play a part other than that you're devilishly clever and I'd prefer you not be on team evil.  And since neither of us is a fan of the heads rolling, Wyrm.
 
I will now turn my sights to Luckat. You've got no problem jumping on to talk about who's been converted and to offer up some very minor points of analysis that I'm not even sure could be called analysis, since Meta doesn't really have a reason to lie about the pendant, so it's obvious that he was poisoned. I know you're smart and very analytically-minded. How about you speak up a little more? My vote will not move until you start participating, and I don't just mean a minor little post. I mean genuine participation.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Sorry everyone, I was working on a long post yesterday but it became a bit redundant because I worked on it on and off for about 4 hours, and by the time that I finished everything I said had already been brought up or discounted. I think I have come up with 2 suspicions. Honey Badger and Clanky. So, Honey Badger was the second person to put a vote on Mailliw, and created pressure of a lynch right then. Honey Badger had already been voted for by Mailliw. Bort, who we are also suspicious of due to the last set of Elantrian votes, placed a third vote on Badger. Maybe it isn't very concrete, but we can trust Mailliw's suspicions as unbiased, and Honey Badger was also one of the people that was present during the lynch on Meta and made an appearance, but didn't actually join a side. I think Winter was fairly clever by giving up after the reveal of her identity, because it meant there was no point in any eliminators trying to get involved in discussion, and it was a decent attempt to stop any more discussion from happening that day. It also seems like Winter suspected something like that reveal would happen, and cautioned her team to not jump on the lynch for Meta.

 

As for Clanky, again focusing on the Mailliw lynch, I found it fairly suspicious that he voted for Mailliw without his own reasons before the lynch was clear-cut. At that time, Honey Badger had two votes and Mailliw had 3, so Clanky kind of sealed the deal. It seems like most of the votes on Mailliw starting with Clanky didn't have too much reasoning behind them, but the next two were from people confirmed to be good, so I blame Clanky the most for that lynch happening the way it did.

 

Edit: Vote Color and crossed out incorrect stuff

Edited June 5, 2015 by Araris Valerian

[Wyrmhero he/him]

My point about your lack of posting wasn't an incrimination actually. You're jumping in 4 cycles in. There's a lot to catch up on. And it's not that the analysis tells us nothing, but that it tells us nothing about you, since that's pretty standard and while there was interpretation of the analysis, it was pretty straightforward. Regardless, that very detailed response has generally assuaged my concerns about you. Really, it was mostly just gut due to that post and a healthy dose of fear that Aonar was evil. Fear of you didn't really play a part other than that you're devilishly clever and I'd prefer you not be on team evil.  And since neither of us is a fan of the heads rolling, Wyrm.

 

I am rather attached to my head, and would prefer to keep it that way

 

Speaking of players who have been around less than expected, what is our current list of people who appear to be inactive?

 

Edit: While I remember, advance warning that I will be less active Saturday evening (due to starting my RP game) and Sunday (due to last-minute tidying and going home from university).

Edited June 5, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[little wilson she/her]

So, Honey Badger was the second person to put a vote on Mailliw, and created pressure of a lynch right then. 

 

As for Clanky, again focusing on the Mailliw lynch, I found it fairly suspicious that he voted for Mailliw without his own reasons before the lynch was clear-cut. At that time, Honey Badger had two votes and Mailliw had 3, so Clanky kind of sealed the deal. It seems like most of the votes on Mailliw starting with Clanky didn't have too much reasoning behind them, but the next two were from people confirmed to be good, so I blame Clanky the most for that lynch happening the way it did.

 

Actually, the first three votes on Maill were from Alvron, Twei and me, in that order. You're right that Clanky put the forth vote, though. And the next two were from Meta and Kas. Before Meta voted, Honey had gotten a 3rd vote, so it was still close. 

 

Not that I'm saying Honey isn't suspicious. He needs to talk more. But he was the 7th vote on Maill. I agree fully about Clanky though. His lack of reasoning for that seems like an easy way for an eliminator to hide in the lynch of an innocent. Particularly if one of their own was on the chopping block too.

 

Speaking of players who have been around less than expected, what is our current list of people who appear to be inactive?

 

Ostrich is the big one. He hasn't posted in the thread once the entire game, yet he hasn't been replaced yet either. I'm almost tempted just to have him lynched because his activity is suspicious.

Karlin has posted 4 times this game, and never more than once in a turn. He also tends not to say much.

Dow has gone considerable less active in the last couple cycles than he was in the first couple.

Clanky's been rather quiet.

Claincy, but he's given real life reasons, and when he's able to check in he posts a fair bit.

Mek has also gone far less active, but he gave the reason for that during the night and from what I've heard from someone else on the matter, it sounds legitimate, so I'm disinclined to view him as suspicious.

Honey Badger hasn't been talking much, nor has he offered a reason why, to my knowledge.

Alvron has been rather quiet the last couple cycles. Would be useful if he'd talk a little more. I don't get the impression he's evil, and I know he's rather busy in real life, but more discussion would be beneficial there, especially since his insights could really help right now.

Jain has been rather reticent as well.

Araris is yet another one, though he just posted explaining that.

Twei's confirmed good, but she's posted very little (7 times the whole game)

Wonko had things come up in real life and was replaced by Sart, and Sart hasn't said anything since taking over (though that's likely because he's catching up on everything that's gone on, like you are).

Emerald took over for Pifferdoo, and he said a little bit, but then real life happened and he'll be back next cycle? I can't remember. But he'll be back.

And obviously Luckat.

 

.....So basically over half the players in the game aren't talking much at all. Conversation is being dominated by a select few people, half of which are confirmed good (me, Kas, and formerly Meta) and the other half of which are unknown (Hael, Kipper).

 

And from what I know, Elantris is pretty active.

[Guest]

...Because Meta gave up his role in public, we would have no suspects with regards to who killed him, because we all knew. That's not the same here as it is with phattemer, but again, I was just trying to puzzle out what happened for myself, not as much for any of the other players...

But we knew that Phatt was a Priest. We all knew.

My main suspicions for today are Haelbarde and Ostrich. Haelbarde because he really hasn't contributed much. It almost seems like he's seized onto this poetry thing as a way for people to see him and go, "Oh, he's active." With Kas, at least it's usually spoilered out at the end of the post.

Ostrich is disturbing, but I don't think we can afford to lynch him. After all, what if he's a Pirate or a Warrior holding/protecting Meta or Wilson or Kas? Sure, it might not be likely, but he has to have been doing something in PMs to remain active. (At least I'm pretty sure being in the doc for Eliminators wouldn't count as being active.)

Lastly, I just can't see Aonar dropping out if he was an Eliminator. He loves trolling too much and takes great glee out of it. It wouldn't be like him to pass such a good opportunity up.

[Sart he/him]

Alright, so I'm filling in for Wonko this game. I haven't analyzed all of the voting yet, but I have to ask a major question. Where the heck is Ostrich? Look, I know I've done the strategy of hiding from sight during a game, but it did not help the village. True, he could be doing good behind the scenes, but eventually, work behind the scenes must come into the light. So, what have you found out?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@ Wilson: Oops, it seems I confused his rebuttal with a vote. In that case I would like to change my vote to Clanky. The other points that I brought up about Honey Badger are still valid, however. Also, you said that the two other people that are participating in conversation are Kipper and Haelbarde. But as has been mentioned, mostly Hael has been posting poetry and very convenient links. Also, Wyrm seems to be fairly active. I am going to be giving a graduation speech in about 3 hours, after which I have some celebrating to do, which I can follow with much more attention to this game. However, aside from inactivity, the only people that really stood out to me are the ones that I mentioned above.