Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Haelbarde he/him]

No. My activity levels vary but it's always more than this. As I noted when I signed up I really can't participate in the early couple of cycles, I just don't have the time (or health). I am barely mostly managing to catch up with the thread at irregular intervals. So at least when I do have time to participate in another couple of days I won't have to spend hours trying to work out what the heck is going on.

Acknowledged, and fair enough. Hope things get better. Might have missed where you said that before, but just wanted to bring you up - you experienced players concern me (you all being, well, experienced) along with the fact I have no personal reference of how you are all like to play along side.

Re: Elantrians and the Gyorn/Odiv. I had assumed that an Elantrian Odiv could only convert Elantrians, and so wouldn't be very useful at all. Did I misread things?

[Kasimir he/him]

Mods and Almighty GMs, would like to make a quick apology. I realised there was a typo in my post and decided to fix it--and didn't realise that the M'Hael had posted after me :/ Sorry about the mess. Will be more careful about checking in future.
 
-Kas.

[Bort he/him]

I wouldn't worry too much about it Hael. The more experienced players worry everyone, including each other.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Mods and Almighty GMs, would like to make a quick apology. I realised there was a typo in my post and decided to fix it--and didn't realise that the M'Hael had posted after me :/ Sorry about the mess. Will be more careful about checking in future.

-Kas.

Heh, M'Hael.

What was the typo even. Misspellings I wouldn't have thought would be an issue. Wrong term/name or using the negative of what you intended?

[Kasimir he/him]

Heh, M'Hael.

What was the typo even. Misspellings I wouldn't have thought would be an issue. Wrong term/name or using the negative of what you intended?

You'd be surprised. I get pretty OCD about clearing out mispellings and grammatical errors. And am capable of suffering conniptions over a misplaced comma or a missing space.

But you're also right. In this case, my brain must've shut off for a few seconds because I was recommending that people tell themselves where their Seon was going to, which made absolutely zero sense. (Note to self: sleep is god. Go worship. If you babble like this in your thesis, you will die.)

 

And Bort has it right. The experienced players all worry each other (well, I guess unless you're Meta or Aonar, in which case you just regard the rest of them with amusement maybe), and being experienced doesn't make us more dangerous or anything. So don't worry about not being able to get a read on us, because frankly, that's a good thing. You shouldn't trust me, for one. I wouldn't trust me. If I'm experienced, then it's not in a way that makes me a better player. It just means I've had more chances than most to screw up in these games, to the point that I've learned to trust no one, no matter how badly I might want to.

 

#Wyrm #MR1 #neverforget

[Haelbarde he/him]

You'd be surprised. I get pretty OCD about clearing out mispellings and grammatical errors. And am capable of suffering conniptions over a misplaced comma or a missing space.

But you're also right. In this case, my brain must've shut off for a few seconds because I was recommending that people tell themselves where their Seon was going to, which made absolutely zero sense. (Note to self: sleep is god. Go worship. If you babble like this in your thesis, you will die.)

 

And Bort has it right. The experienced players all worry each other (well, I guess unless you're Meta or Aonar, in which case you just regard the rest of them with amusement maybe), and being experienced doesn't make us more dangerous or anything. So don't worry about not being able to get a read on us, because frankly, that's a good thing. You shouldn't trust me, for one. I wouldn't trust me. If I'm experienced, then it's not in a way that makes me a better player. It just means I've had more chances than most to screw up in these games, to the point that I've learned to trust no one, no matter how badly I might want to.

 

#Wyrm #MR1 #neverforget

Right. No, I'd definitely go back and fix grammatical and spelling mistakes.

I think, of all the more experienced players, you have got to be the most annoying, though through no fault of your own. My perception is that we think in similar ways, which makes me feel really divided about if I can trust you :/

[Bort he/him]

Don't be silly Hael. Of course you can't trust him. What did he just say? Don't trust anyone!

 

I think though, I've worked out why the Cultists didn't kill one of the more experienced players first. Fear. They kill one of them (Kas, or Wilson, Meta, Claincy, whoever) and the rest go on some crazy slaughter-fest, leaving the SE forum a tattered, bloody mess.

[the winter system]

The SE Forum isn't already a bloody mess?

[Herowannabe he/him]

Furthermore, if the Eliminator hits you, the Seon still goes on to the recipient. (I am clarifying with Hreo on this as it is currently unclear if the Seon will go instead to your heir.)

The gifting of items happens AFTER player deaths, so if either player dies the transaction is canceled.

However, with Seons, you ARE able to gift your Seon to someone and name them as your heir at the same time, ensuring that it will reach that person even if you die.

[Metacognition he/him]

Don't be silly Hael. Of course you can't trust him. What did he just say? Don't trust anyone!

 

 

Don't be silly, Bort! You all can trust me!

[Kipper he/him]

Don't be silly, Bort! You all can trust me!

I trust you, Meta! After all, it's not like you expertly manipulated me in very first game or anything!

1. @Kasimir, does Hero's clarification change your opinion about the Seons at all? Just curious.

2. @Mailliw I wouldn't mind contact.

3. I suspect that the first convert was an Elantrian, as it makes the most sense for the Gyorn. If the convert was a non-Elantrian, the convert would really only have the option of admitting it in-thread, even if he/she was the Odiv. As such, the ONLY likely possibilities as I see them are:

A. The convert is an Elantrian.

B. The convert is a non-Elantrian who has been inactive. I don't watch players closely enough to know about this one.

C. The convert is a non-Elantrian who just hasn't revealed. This possibility is so slight as to be worthless.

I strongly lean towards #3. In fact, as we see, the Seon holders are not telling us about Elantris. This creates an even better situation for the Gyorn. If he converts more and more people in Elantris as they come, the situation improves. As we in the main thread lynch people also in the main thread, the Gyorn's (and possibly the Odiv's) stack of converts piles higher.

4. Did I miss a clarification about whether an Elantrian Odiv could convert those outside of Elantris?

[little wilson she/her]

Maill, I also would like to be contacted.

 

We're not really making much headway today, are we? Kipper, which option do you think? You've got that you think it's an Elantrian, and then you say you think #3, which is the non-Elantrian option. I'm of the opinion that the convert was an Elantrian and probably an inactive one (so probably Neo, since Ren and Zas are both probably active). However, there's a chance it could've been one of those two, and if that's the case, at least one of the Seon holders knows, because I'm almost positive that someone is in contact with Elantris right now. If a Seon holder knows who the convert is (assuming they're an Elantrian) and you're hesitant to say because you don't want to put a target on your back due to your Seon, I suggest using Kas' gifting idea. It would be useful to know where the Gyorn is converting. By gifting your Seon, the Cultists likely won't kill you since you'll no longer have it, kolo?       

 

Moving on from the conversion (I think we've spent too much time talking about that), suspects. I think Mek made a very good point about the lynch set-up yesterday. What with the noble (since it could've been either Prince/Princess or Duke/Duchess) moving Walin's vote there and the Keeper vote on Mek, it's pretty obvious they were trying to kill him. I don't think that the bandwagon was orchestrated by the Cultists. That said, there's a decent chance a Cultist voted in the bandwagon, probably late. Since we don't know what Fel was/Mek is now, it could've been insurance for another innocent death or it could've been an attempt to seem more trusted if Fel was a Cultist. This makes me look at two of the last three people to vote. The last three votes were from Wonko, Mek, and Phatt. Obviously, it's not Mek we're looking at (at least in reference to this. He could be an eliminator now), so that leaves Wonko and Phatt. I'm not sure which one I'm more interested in, since either are valid. Phatt said some suspicious things during Day 1, but he got in contact with me last night with his Seon (I have no trouble saying that now since it's corrupted and therefore not a threat) and now I don't really know what to think about him. I don't trust him but I don't distrust him either. Wonko's quick vote switch strikes me as off too, especially since he laid a vote on Mek and then almost immediately switched it over to Fel. And I don't think he's explained that switch very well.

 

However, Wonko already has three votes on him, and I'm not certain enough to tack another on.

 

I'd also like to mention Jain and Winter, as Meta already did. The attempt on Mek had already been discussed during the night, so the fact that Jain jumped on right at the start of the day to direct focus back to the bandwagon on Fel (when we don't know what alignment he was) strikes me as odd. And Winter's more of a gut feeling than anything else. I do still have suspicions of Maill, but his comment has me rethinking. (Which is exactly why I'd like to be contacted by whomever your contact is, Maill)

 

We've got a little under 7 hours left in the cycle, and with the votes as spread out as they are (and only 3 on the highest), I'm worried there will be another last minute bandwagon on a lurker. Personally, I'd advise against a bandwagon like that today, since there's enough info in the thread that lynching someone like Wonko or Jain would provide even more fodder for discussion tomorrow.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I'm not sure about lynching Wonko. It seems like, as an eliminator, he would not go inactive right after advocating for lynching the inactive players. I suspect that he is busy IRL, since otherwise he probably would have responded to having three votes. However, I'm not too sure about Jain either. Bringing up the lynch again at the start of the day isn't too strange, since the night and the day discussions don't usually have the same focus. I guess I don't feel super strongly about either of our suspects, but I would prefer to lynch Wonko right now of the two.

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Kas, I was outlining the potential playstyle and predicting the Gyorn's targets in my post.

 

Haha, looks like whenever I stick my head out for discussion I get shot right back. True, my argument in hindsight was  rather idiotic. Back to the shadows for me.   

[Metacognition he/him]

Haha, looks like whenever I stick my head out for discussion I get shot right back. True, my argument in hindsight was  rather idiotic. Back to the shadows for me.   

 

MenE didn't like it much at all, but he couldn't figure out how to put it into words so that everyone else would be able to understand him. 

 

Jain was redirecting. He wasn't removing his vote (even after admitting to it being less than ideal) or anything like that. He hadn't given a rebuttal to the arguments against him; just that he wasn't going to contribute anymore. His actions and his words didn't match up, which was very suspicious to MenE. It was almost as if Jain just wanted someone to die and wasn't going to give up the chance to get either Dow or Won dead. 

 

But whenever MenE tried to open his mouth to explain all of this, he couldn't get his words in the right order. So he kept sweeping and whispering to himself, "Suspicous. Supicous..."

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

MenE didn't like it much at all, but he couldn't figure out how to put it into words so that everyone else would be able to understand him.

Jain was redirecting. He wasn't removing his vote (even after admitting to it being less than ideal) or anything like that. He hadn't given a rebuttal to the arguments against him; just that he wasn't going to contribute anymore. His actions and his words didn't match up, which was very suspicious to MenE. It was almost as if Jain just wanted someone to die and wasn't going to give up the chance to get either Dow or Won dead.

But whenever MenE tried to open his mouth to explain all of this, he couldn't get his words in the right order. So he kept sweeping and whispering to himself, "Suspicous. Supicous..."

Oh? So you're pressuring me to take away my vote?

I actually did intend to remove my vote, following the positive response to my points, along with saying that I'm not a Converted, but I forgot to say that (the second twice). Wonko

[Metacognition he/him]

(No RP. Getting lazy! )

 

Nope. No pressure, feel free to leave your vote there. I'm just pointing out that it's very suspicious to point out that your reasoning for doing something might not have been the best, but then you continue to do it anyways. And now you're redirecting again when called out for it. When did you start getting so aggressive about these things, Jain? This isn't how you've played before, which makes me wonder whether or not there's a reason for your aggressiveness this time- like perhaps because you're a Cultist. 

 

It's one thing to follow a bad string of logic, admit that there were factors that you hadn't accounted for, and then try to make amends. It's entirely another to continue to follow that same logic through and then also attack anyone who points it out. It just doesn't seem like a very Villager thing to do to me. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Metacognition

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

(No RP. Getting lazy! )

Nope. No pressure, feel free to leave your vote there. I'm just pointing out that it's very suspicious to point out that your reasoning for doing something might not have been the best, but then you continue to do it anyways. And now you're redirecting again when called out for it. When did you start getting so aggressive about these things, Jain? This isn't how you've played before, which makes me wonder whether or not there's a reason for your aggressiveness this time- like perhaps because you're a Cultist.

It's one thing to follow a bad string of logic, admit that there were factors that you hadn't accounted for, and then try to make amends. It's entirely another to continue to follow that same logic through and then also attack anyone who points it out. It just doesn't seem like a very Villager thing to do to me.

Read my first post in the game, please. I've tried this playstyle before, too, in MR 3 or 4.

Look, I'm just sick of the attention and suspicion I'm getting for a mistake. Pardon me if I'm getting counter-aggressive.

[Alvron he/him]

Vote Tally:

Haelbarde : Clanky

Karlin : Dow

Dow : Jain, Bort

Luckat : Kas

Wonko : Araris, Maill, Kas, Jain

Clanky : Winter, Kipper

Lord Piff : Meta

Spencer : Dow, Kas

Alv : Aonar

Maill : Wilson

Twei : Clanky

Jain : Meta

 

Currently with the votes tied and only at two, anyone who has a vote on them could be taken out via Vote Manipulators/Debtorness.

[spencer12347 he/him]

Guys I know I have been offline for sometime and I always loose track of these games and just fall off them, but this time I won't. Also Wonko I was not informed that it was a duke or duchess that forced my vote. I'm probably still not going to vote this round for I haven't followed it but I will on night 2. 

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Sorry about lack of activity. I'll try to get on more in the future, but can't promise anything. At the very least, I'll get on well before the lynch each day, to keep from a repeat of Day 1.

 

Well, blast. I was all set to vote for spencer, when he finally comes on to talk. This means that it was a Prince/Princess who forced Spencer's vote.

 

I don't have a lot to say in my defense that I haven't already. I have apologised for the last-minute activity, and don't intend to do it again, but at the time, it seemed the best of bad options. I wasn't as confident in Mek and Orlok as Luckat seems to have been, but I felt that every argument against either had been the result of a misunderstanding, and they hadn't made any suspicious choices under the pressure. So I was more convinced of their innocence then their guilt, and they were two of the most active players in the game. Lynching an inactive was a safe alternative, which still had a potential chance of hitting an eliminator.

 

People seem to think we should be trying to hit converts. Why? A dead convert is better for the Gyorn than a living one, in all but one case. The Gyorn doesn't win by preserving his flock, but by eliminating every player who isn't a member of it.

 

The point about the transferability of Seons has convinced me to come out and say that I have a Seon. I'd been thinking that the Seon makes me a target, but since my death doesn't eliminate the Seon, I'm actually no more desirable a death than anyone else.

 

I was in contact with Elantris Night 1, but they didn't have much to say. I intend to try again Day 3, after they've had a chance to search two areas for secrets.

 

So far, I've sort of been at a loss as to how to use the Seon effectively. I haven't learned anything from either of the two PMs I've made. My inactivity means I still have the ability to use it today (sorry!), so if anyone has any suggestions as to what I should do with it, I'm listening.

 

For what it's worth, other than the Seon, I'm a vanilla Arelish citizen.

[Emerald101 he/him]

Is it too late to sign up as a pinch hitter?

[the winter system]

Sorry about lack of activity. I'll try to get on more in the future, but can't promise anything. At the very least, I'll get on well before the lynch each day, to keep from a repeat of Day 1.

 

Well, blast. I was all set to vote for spencer, when he finally comes on to talk. This means that it was a Prince/Princess who forced Spencer's vote.

 

I don't have a lot to say in my defense that I haven't already. I have apologised for the last-minute activity, and don't intend to do it again, but at the time, it seemed the best of bad options. I wasn't as confident in Mek and Orlok as Luckat seems to have been, but I felt that every argument against either had been the result of a misunderstanding, and they hadn't made any suspicious choices under the pressure. So I was more convinced of their innocence then their guilt, and they were two of the most active players in the game. Lynching an inactive was a safe alternative, which still had a potential chance of hitting an eliminator.

 

People seem to think we should be trying to hit converts. Why? A dead convert is better for the Gyorn than a living one, in all but one case. The Gyorn doesn't win by preserving his flock, but by eliminating every player who isn't a member of it.

 

The point about the transferability of Seons has convinced me to come out and say that I have a Seon. I'd been thinking that the Seon makes me a target, but since my death doesn't eliminate the Seon, I'm actually no more desirable a death than anyone else.

 

I was in contact with Elantris Night 1, but they didn't have much to say. I intend to try again Day 3, after they've had a chance to search two areas for secrets.

 

So far, I've sort of been at a loss as to how to use the Seon effectively. I haven't learned anything from either of the two PMs I've made. My inactivity means I still have the ability to use it today (sorry!), so if anyone has any suggestions as to what I should do with it, I'm listening.

 

For what it's worth, other than the Seon, I'm a vanilla Arelish citizen.

Why is a dead Convert better than a living one? I'm kind of confused. They'd rather have it be someone not converted so that's one less person to convert, right? Or am I confused?

Also, thank you for sharing your Seon-ness with the crowd. I'll have more to say on this later. Maybe.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

People seem to think we should be trying to hit converts. Why? A dead convert is better for the Gyorn than a living one, in all but one case. The Gyorn doesn't win by preserving his flock, but by eliminating every player who isn't a member of it.

This doesn't really make sense. Kasimir already did an analysis on this, but right now there are three people being pulled out of the pool that the Gyorn needs to deal with every cycle. The lynch target, the cultist kill and his own conversion. If any of those overlap, then that is one fewer person on the list that the Gyorn can forget about. If the Gyorn does 5 conversions, the lynch hits 5 people and the cultists take out another 5, the number of people that the Gyorn has to deal with ranges from 15-20 (Based off of our starting numbers). 15 is when no converts are killed, and twenty is when they all die. So based on what we do, without ever factoring in the Odiv, we could buy ourselves multiple extra cycles by killing converts. Now I'm not saying that we should explicitly target them, but maybe the cultists could be kind enough to?

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

This doesn't really make sense. Kasimir already did an analysis on this, but right now there are three people being pulled out of the pool that the Gyorn needs to deal with every cycle. The lynch target, the cultist kill and his own conversion. If any of those overlap, then that is one fewer person on the list that the Gyorn can forget about. If the Gyorn does 5 conversions, the lynch hits 5 people and the cultists take out another 5, the number of people that the Gyorn has to deal with ranges from 15-20 (Based off of our starting numbers). 15 is when no converts are killed, and twenty is when they all die. So based on what we do, without ever factoring in the Odiv, we could buy ourselves multiple extra cycles by killing converts. Now I'm not saying that we should explicitly target them, but maybe the cultists could be kind enough to?

 

 

I don't think that the Converts are going to be coming out of the closet anytime soon, judging by that post.