Guest Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The truth is, liking and disliking a character is an entirely personal experience. Not everyone will connect with Renarin just as not everyone will connect with Adolin, no matter how many essays we may read on either of them. Adolin and Renarin are two nearly opposing characters when it comes to personality and behavior. Where Adolin is the social extroverted, Renarin is the quiet introverted. Where Adolin is a man of action and is emotionally impulsive, Renarin is thoughtful and safeguards his emotions. They may be brothers, but they have little in common which is why I keep advocating for Adolin to be promoted to major character. Adolin, I feel, is widely different than the remaining of the crew: more outgoing, more emotional, more action-oriented, more extroverted but with an inner vulnerability he keeps on the inside. The other major players are mostly comprised of introverted individuals, as highlighted in the former Cosmere MBTI discussion. It makes me sad the ONE character that resembles me the most will not get to play a major role. However, I get your point EvilNuff as I too am more interested in reading about Adolin than Renarin. So, in this never ending debate, I am mostly flustered one seemed to come at the price of other. Considering Brandon has so many front-runners going on in the first two books, Renarin is just a little underdeveloped given we don't have a lot of information about him yet. (Don't let Feather see that comment, she frightens me more than the Nightwatcher! Adolin isn't exactly minor, he's just not a priority at the minute given we've already got so much going on as it is (if ever though here's hoping ) Adolin is what I would qualify as a major secondary character. I wish he would become a main protagonist just like Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar and later on Renarin. The issue is not he isn't a priority right now in the story, it is the fact he will never become one which is hard pill to swallow when we know practically everyone else will.
Bort he/him Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 As much as I hate to say it, as Adolin is one of my favorite characters, I have to agree here. I just don't see as much development for Adolin as other major characters. (Which just makes me sad that a great character like Adolin is minor and a terrible one like Renarin is a major one...sheesh.) So far, I'd say we've had more development of Adolin than of Renarin. The flashback characters for the books we've not had yet do include Renarin, but do none of you think that, from what we've seen of them both so far, we will need to know more about Renarin's past to find out how he became Radiant? We won't need this with Adolin because more of his non-Radiancy flashbacks will probably be covered in both Dalinar's and Renarin's books, and we will be watching his progress in, I hope, reawakening his Blade. To me this more suggests that the entire series is based on Adolin. I'm still of the opinion that Adolin will be the one chosen to duel Odium's champion.
Guest Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 So far, I'd say we've had more development of Adolin than of Renarin. The flashback characters for the books we've not had yet do include Renarin, but do none of you think that, from what we've seen of them both so far, we will need to know more about Renarin's past to find out how he became Radiant? We won't need this with Adolin because more of his non-Radiancy flashbacks will probably be covered in both Dalinar's and Renarin's books, and we will be watching his progress in, I hope, reawakening his Blade. To me this more suggests that the entire series is based on Adolin. I'm still of the opinion that Adolin will be the one chosen to duel Odium's champion. Yes, you are right about the first statement. We have seen more character development from Adolin than Renarin. However, the issue lies with the fact Brandon has said Renarin would become a major character as the story progresses whereas he has never hinted anything pertaining Adolin's future in the story. Worst, he has admitted Adolin did not have large role in the first outlay of SA. He is not a character Brandon planned on developing. He decided to use him because he felt Dalinar's dilemma, back in WoK, was too much of an internal struggle: he felt an outside view may bring more credence/strength to the story plot. And it did. Adolin works well. In fact, he works so well he has grown from a character nobody thought of much into one of the most discussed one. Yet, Brandon has announced his main cast and he is not one of them. We know Renarin will grow. We know we will get his POV, probably starting next book as Brandon also said we would get more of him. Renarin is not much, in terms of character, right now, but he will get the Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar special treatment. Adolin probably won't. As for the flashbacks, apart from finding out how Renarin because a Radiant, I do not see much in his past to fill-out a full book of flashbacks. Kaladin's flashbacks were amazing, but Shallan's dragged on a bit because there was not much going on. Whereas it is true we are bound to get a few glimpses of young Adolin in both Dalinar and Renarin's flashbacks, I wonder if they will tackle the events leading to grow into the young man he now is. Dalinar's flashbacks will be more centered on his past as the Blackthorn (I think) than on his family life. I, for one, really, really wanted to read the dueling scene where teenage Adolin won his Blade. Is it a significant scene for either Dalinar or Renarin? Probably not, which is why we probably won't get it. Also, having flashbacks means more than simply having a backstory: it also means having a special spotlight and whether Brandon has stated all books will not follow the outlay of book 1-2, we can wager the main Radiants of each order are probably hidden within those and we already have an Edgedancer, so... It is easy to draw conclusions on pure conjuncture, which may not come to pass, but it makes me worry. I sincerely hope we are going to read about his progress to re-awakened his Blade. Brandon has always been careful in answering Blade re-awakening questions: never confirming it, never RAFOing it, never denying the possibility... It feels as if he is indeed keeping this door open. Will he cross it? I do not know. Many fans want to read this story and not just the Adolin's fans (as it is compelling enough on its own). However, I would not say the entire series is based on a character that didn't even exist in the initial planning...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Well, it looks like he's getting a flashback sequence at least, although this WoB is a little dated so it might not apply now. INTERVIEW: Aug 31st, 2011 Reddit AMA 2011 (Verbatim) Do you plan to write the Stormlight Archive books with the same POV characters throughout the series (like WoT) or do you think that you give other characters POV (aSoIaF) as the series continues? BRANDON SANDERSONMost of the main POV characters have been introduced. Each book will take one major character (Kaladin, Dalinar, Adolin, Jasnah, Shallan, Navani, Szeth, Taln) and give them 'flashback' sequences in the same way Kaladin got flashbacks in the first book. There are some open spots for which I'm toying with other characters being used. Here's hoping...
Guest Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 That's an old one... He had since changed his plan at least a dozen times He has since removed Adolin and Navani from the list and added Eshonai, Renarin and Shalash. In the case of Navani, I recall him saying he felt she did not need any flashback sequences as most of her story arc will be covered by Dalinar's. He never said anything specific for Adolin, but he is not part of the actual line-out which has not changed much recently. Though I have not read that one in quite a while: it does bring the hope he may do something interesting with the character
DreamEternal Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Well, if he turns out to be a Edgedancer, I would rather learn about the order from him than from Lift, who I see as the same kind of character as Nightblood: don't overdo it, ever.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I personally would rather see Lift being Apprenticed (That would be interesting and entertaining if it was Jasnah) so she'd be still chidlike yet still quite mature in her totally, awesome innocent way. Also, when she's a few years older, Adolift? (I've been lurking around the shippers too long *groan*)
Guest Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Well, if he turns out to be a Edgedancer, I would rather learn about the order from him than from Lift, who I see as the same kind of character as Nightblood: don't overdo it, ever. Yeah I agree. I like Lift, but i would rather read the progression to a full fledged Edgedancer from a grown-up as opposed to from a child... By the time she will old enough to be mature, she will long since be a full Radiant. It has been my dearest hope Brandon may gave us Adolin as a spotlight for the Edgedancers with Lift to underline the difference between two members of the same orders via the interludes. I personally would rather see Lift being Apprenticed (That would be interesting and entertaining if it was Jasnah) so she'd be still chidlike yet still quite mature in her totally, awesome innocent way. Also, when she's a few years older, Adolift? (I've been lurking around the shippers too long *groan*) Creepy dude Though 33 years old Adolin and 23 years old Lift is not as creepy... but still... I hope poor Adolin will get a wife by then
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Yeah I agree. I like Lift, but i would rather read the progression to a full fledged Edgedancer from a grown-up as opposed to from a child... By the time she will old enough to be mature, she will long since be a full Radiant. It has been my dearest hope Brandon may gave us Adolin as a spotlight for the Edgedancers with Lift to underline the difference between two members of the same orders via the interludes. Creepy dude Though 33 years old Adolin and 23 years old Lift is not as creepy... but still... I hope poor Adolin will get a wife by then Ergo, few years older x). Although, Rosharan culture is rather different...*cringe* not going there I don't think he will to be honest. Not for his lack of trying to be honest, but i just don't see it. He's too...I can't find the right word...not quite independent, bah...i'll go find a dictionary >.> EDIT: Whoops, sorry Max, was editing for better response! Edited July 5, 2015 by ParadoxSpren
Guest Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Ergo, few years older x). Although, Alethi culture is rather old fashioned...*cringe* not going there Yeah..... 15 years old Lift and 25 years old Adolin is just not the same huh? You just made me thought the age difference between Adolin/Lift is less than in between Jasnah/Kaladin which is a popular ship........... Perhaps we should not go there.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Indeed we shall not....back on topic, I believe Adolin, irregardless of whether he becomes a main-main character (flashback/primary viewpoint), I do believe (confidently, about 90%) we will see more viewpoints, especially after WoR's ending, at least for the first few parts of the next book, given that Brandon wouldn't leave a major thread like this open for too long, so i'm predicting the resulting consequences of his actions will climax late first Act, possibly a bit of growth in the second & third, where we might see further hints of his future. Its kinda hard to ponder given how large Oathbringer will most likely be, seeing as there are so many under/over plot threads. This is how i could see Brandon playing it out
Bort he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Foreshadowing perhaps... How close did Adolin come to falling into the chasm while dueling Eshonai... That's some hardcore edge dancing, if you ask me 3
Guest Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 (edited) Ergo, few years older x). Although, Rosharan culture is rather different...*cringe* not going there I don't think he will to be honest. Not for his lack of trying to be honest, but i just don't see it. He's too...I can't find the right word...not quite independent, bah...i'll go find a dictionary >.> EDIT: Whoops, sorry Max, was editing for better response! I am not sure I understand the last bit... Could you expand some? Indeed we shall not....back on topic, I believe Adolin, irregardless of whether he becomes a main-main character (flashback/primary viewpoint), I do believe (confidently, about 90%) we will see more viewpoints, especially after WoR's ending, at least for the first few parts of the next book, given that Brandon wouldn't leave a major thread like this open for too long, so i'm predicting the resulting consequences of his actions will climax late first Act, possibly a bit of growth in the second & third, where we might see further hints of his future. Its kinda hard to ponder given how large Oathbringer will most likely be, seeing as there are so many under/over plot threads. This is how i could see Brandon playing it out Yeah it has me worried... There are so many sub-plots Brandon stated he wanted to explore I am worried about the current plot at hand, you know those related to Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar/Adolin. Foreshadowing perhaps... How close did Adolin come to falling into the chasm while dueling Eshonai... That's some hardcore edge dancing, if you ask me He was tripping on the edge Skar and Drehy caught him back, but he was pretty close, so close he got to stare into the tempest down below. Edited July 5, 2015 by maxal
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Haha, that bit was for when you quote but i'd already rephrased the original post ^^
Guest Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 Haha, that bit was for when you quote but i'd already rephrased the original post ^^ I meant the part where you said you didn't think he would too honest... I got lost there.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Honestly, I think I've lost myself too. I believe it was a massive jump to when the truth will come out about Sadeas and that Adolin will come clean about it himself, but not right away. He will try to rationalise it for a while but knowing that Dalinar will be ashamed will be the straw that breaks the chull's back and then will confess...unless Brandon brings Ialai into it with a plot about her finding out the truth and doing a big reveal
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Honestly, I think I've lost myself too. I believe it was a massive jump to when the truth will come out about Sadeas and that Adolin will come clean about it himself, but not right away. He will try to rationalise it for a while but knowing that Dalinar will be ashamed will be the straw that breaks the chull's back and then will confess...unless Brandon brings Ialai into it with a plot about her finding out the truth and doing a big reveal I do not think Adolin wil try to rationalize it. I think he will be so overwhelmed by his own emotions, he'll simply be reacting.
EvilNuff Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 In the original drafts for WoK Adolin died so I think the jump from that to him eventually becoming a Radiant is probably a bit too large. I would love to see it happen mind you, I just don't consider it too likely.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 It is a very fluid-y vague subject. On one hand, there has been a bit of foreshadowing along with his build-up as a character whereas, on the other hand he was originally unplanned as a character and the build-up was purely because he worked so well and has now developed into quite a semi-prominent figure so it will be interesting to see
Guest Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 In the original drafts for WoK Adolin died so I think the jump from that to him eventually becoming a Radiant is probably a bit too large. I would love to see it happen mind you, I just don't consider it too likely. I have been giving this some more thoughts in the last days. Whereas we cannot deny the fact Adolin was not a character Brandon initially planned to develop, we should not put too much faith in his earlier morbid ending. Adolin in the first draft of WoK was not the same character: he was not the Adolin we have been reading for two books and come to love. Most presumably, he was a side character without much impact in the overall story and without much sympathy capital. We can't say that is still the case. What does it mean for him? I am unsure. However, there is no denying Adolin (his character development, his future character development, his murdering of Sadeas, his potential as a Radiant) is one of the most talked about subject ever since the release of WoR. I do not think there is another character we have talked about as much as him. Some may come close, but there is no denying this simple character previously doomed to a grim ending has spurred more conversations on his own than Dalinar, Szeth, Eshonai, Jasnah, Lift, Renarin, Shallan... in other words pretty much every other single major characters with the possible exception of Kaladin. I am unsure how much we have talked him. Now even if I got it wrong, nobody can deny the fact he is a subject that comes back rather often. Whereas Adolin is not everyone's favorite, he still remains a character with a strong sympathy capital and he has managed to be interesting enough, despite not truly having a plot of his own, to have the readers root for his future. The "Adolin will revive his Blade" IS a popular theory. Perhaps not the most popular one, but it still is very popular. For a writer, he is a gold mine. He currently stands at a cross-road. He could go anywhere and, more importantly, most readers actually care where he'll go. The plot where he goes from Prince to destitute/broken to Radiant has tremendous potential: it is the kind of story arc that puts the E into EPIC, if executed properly. Moreover, I am convinced a generous and close to his fans author such as Brandon is well aware of how his readers are reacting to his characters. Killing of or dropping of the character who has sprouted a large chunk of the discussions in your fan base does not seem as a good move. So whatever Brandon's initial plans were for Adolin (which seemed to have been none), it is clear he has outgrown them. No matter where I go on the Web, people ARE asking about Adolin, but they are not asking so much about the other characters. That being said, I am still horribly afraid Brandon will torched him down, but it does not make sense to me to do so, not when you have the potential to do so much more with the character.
The Sovereign Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 There is some mention of this in the thread but it is lightly touched upon at best: During the assault in WoR Adolin does not feel the thrill at all and even gets a sickened feeling while fighting. We have seen this twice before; Both Kaladin and Dalinar had similar experiences while fighting the Parshendi. I think this may be the best indication of upcoming Radiancy. My guess is that Adolin is beginning to feel the very early effects of a Nahel bond this is pushing away Nergaoul's influence. I have seen some people point to Nergaoul moving to the chaos in Jah Kaved to be the cause of the absence of the Thrill. Adolin comments that Eshonai is definitely feeling the effects of the Thrill during their duel. So, unless he is wrong then, the Thrill is still affecting the Shattered Plains and he is immune. 1
natc Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Do parshendi normally get the Thrill? I forget. It might be that all voidspren forms meant for combat are just like that at all times? 1
hoser he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) There is some mention of this in the thread but it is lightly touched upon at best: During the assault in WoR Adolin does not feel the thrill at all and even gets a sickened feeling while fighting. We have seen this twice before; Both Kaladin and Dalinar had similar experiences while fighting the Parshendi. I think this may be the best indication of upcoming Radiancy. My guess is that Adolin is beginning to feel the very early effects of a Nahel bond this is pushing away Nergaoul's influence. I have seen some people point to Nergaoul moving to the chaos in Jah Kaved to be the cause of the absence of the Thrill. Adolin comments that Eshonai is definitely feeling the effects of the Thrill during their duel. So, unless he is wrong then, the Thrill is still affecting the Shattered Plains and he is immune. Well, maybe. Eshonai's form seems to be influenced by something relating to Odium. I can imagine her being able to be influenced by the Unmade at a greater range and potency than beings not bonded to voidspren. That leaves me less certain about the significance of Adolin not feeling the thrill, but it still seems possible that he has evolved past being affected by the Thrill. Edit: clarify last sentence Edited July 10, 2015 by hoser 1
The Sovereign Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Well, maybe. Eshonai's form seems to be influenced by something relating to Odium. I can imagine her being able to be influenced by the Unmade at a greater range and potency than beings not bonded to voidspren. That leaves me less certain about the significance of Adolin not feeling the thrill, but it still seems possible. This is a very good point that I had overlooked, Eshonai's bond probably does affect how she is affected by the Unmade's influence. However, Adolin did also lose the Thrill while he was attacking the plateau with Jakamov.
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 There is some mention of this in the thread but it is lightly touched upon at best: During the assault in WoR Adolin does not feel the thrill at all and even gets a sickened feeling while fighting. We have seen this twice before; Both Kaladin and Dalinar had similar experiences while fighting the Parshendi. I think this may be the best indication of upcoming Radiancy. My guess is that Adolin is beginning to feel the very early effects of a Nahel bond this is pushing away Nergaoul's influence. I have seen some people point to Nergaoul moving to the chaos in Jah Kaved to be the cause of the absence of the Thrill. Adolin comments that Eshonai is definitely feeling the effects of the Thrill during their duel. So, unless he is wrong then, the Thrill is still affecting the Shattered Plains and he is immune. I am among those who believes Adolin losing the Thrill is relevant and if you look closely at his character's progression, it does appear to be significant. Let's look at it. In his first duel, Adolin succumbs to the Thrill. He is angry, he wants to make a point, the Thrill comes and he embraces it. The result is a gruesome battle which, despite lasting only a few minutes, exhausted Adolin both physically and mentally. Later on, when fighting with Jakamav, he is deep into the Thrill, happily fighting like a perfect little Alethi. It prompts him to behave recklessly in pushing him to climb a steed cliff while standing on his Blade only to end up fully surrounded with only his fists to defend himself. He is... thrilled... until Eshonai comes forward and demands to talk to him. Adolin does not want to: he wants to fight her, the Thrill demands blood and gore, BUT deep down, the stern and wise voice of Dalinar tells him he has to listen to what she has to say... Adolin does not lose the Thrill in this scene: he fights it down until he is capable of engaging a short conversation with Eshonai. In his subsequent duels, Adolin feels the Thrill, but he refuses to give in. He claims he needs a clear and level head to duel properly, so he quells the Thrill down. It is there, but he fights it. And finally, on the Plateau fight, Adolin remarks the absence of the Thrill when establishing his clever take over plan via the empty rocks. He blames on the fact he is tired, but as soon as he starts slashing helpless people, he gets violently nauseated to the point where he trembles and drops his Blade. Even Dalinar did not react this harshly to the lost of the Thrill: he fights less well, but he does not incapacitated himself. Adolin does not get to fight the Thrill, it just never manifests himself. Somehow, when combined to Adolin's relationship with the Thrill throughout the book, I can't help feeling it is relevant. It could be Nergaoul has moved away, but nobody else seemed incapacitated: just Adolin. His soldiers where perfectly fine being butchers: had they not prevailed, Adolin would have lost his Plateau. It was just him. So yeah, I am in the bandwagon stating "Adolin losing the Thrill is significant".
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