Adolin Radiancy? (Potential Spoilers)

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Interesting thought train:

 

I was trawling through Theoryland when i came across a WoB about how a person thinks Nohadon might be alive, along with the possibility of him being a Bondsmith (in relation to my earlier point of how the original bladeholder may still be alive)

 

Interview: Mar 21st, 2014

WOR Signing Table Q&A (Verbatim)

Question

So Nohadon's still alive, right?

Brandon Sanderson

... RAFO! Why would you say that Nohadon's still alive?

Question

I know he's still alive.

Brandon Sanderson

Why would you say he's still alive?

Question

It's the perfect trick, that you're gonna bring back Nohadon. Um. It's my feeling about things.

Brandon Sanderson

Um ..

Granted it is a stretch especially with how the WoB turned out, but if this could be the case, and should Nohadon still be alive + be a Bondsmith, then it could be a coup-de-grace plot point of how to turn back all the half-dead Spren

Edited July 13, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Guest]

Interesting thought train:

 

I was trawling through Theoryland when i came across a WoB about how a person thinks Nohadon might be alive, along with the possibility of him being a Bondsmith (in relation to my earlier point of how the original bladeholder may still be alive)

 

Granted it is a stretch especially with how the WoB turned out, but if this could be the case, and should Nohadon still be alive + be a Bondsmith, then it could be a coup-de-grace plot point of how to turn back all the half-dead Spren

 

Hmmm Brandon was asked a few times about the possibility of reviving the dead-Blades. Each and every time, he did not RAFO and he did not state it would be impossible. He repetitively stated it would be very very difficult: it could be pull of, but his phrasing made me think it would a one in a lifetime deal. My impressions have always been he has not decided whether he wants to use this plot line or no. It is clear he laid the ground basis for it, but it may still come to pass.

 

I thus doubt if Nohadon is still, somehow, alive he would be the key to revive all the dead-Blades. 

 

I also really, really, really love the idea reviving his beloved Blade may the one special thing Adolin will have going on for him. 

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Not so much the key, more like knowledgeable of Spren Bonds, especially as he more than likely knew Ishar personally going by the vision. I am 99% convinced a Bondsmith is involved somehow, mainly due Ishar being their patron Herald as well as being the architect behind the bonds. Hmm, that provides another line thought...

[Guest]

Not so much the key, more like knowledgeable of Spren Bonds, especially as he more than likely knew Ishar personally going by the vision. I am 99% convinced a Bondsmith is involved somehow, mainly due Ishar being their patron Herald as well as being the architect behind the bonds. Hmm, that provides another line thought...

 

Well... One of the things I have suspected if the Blade reviving process requires the help of a Radiant... What would a Bondsmith do to kick-start the revival process? If we summarize what we do know, to revive your own Blade you need to:

 

1) Say the oaths. How many though we do not know.

2) Do something more. Again, not any clues as to what the "something more" may be. I've got the feeling this is the hard part. Saying oaths sounds easy compare to number 2....

3) Be compatible with the Blade. Now Brandon did not state anything about this one, but it seems like no brainier.

 

My thoughts are, since the dead-spren seem to be trapped in between the cognitive and the physical world, perhaps they need a link to travel back. Brandon confirmed they had some conscience, though not much. So it could be a dead-spren can attached itself to its yielder but without a means to come back, they remain stuck, even if oaths are said...

[Arondell]

My, admittedly vague, memory of Mr. Sanderson's description of a dead shardblade is that the part that enabled a bond got ripped out.  I would guess that whatever part was lost would have to be replaced or repaired before anything else can happen.  I suspect that this is why it would be so very hard to revive a dead spren.   According to Pattern this has been attempted without success in the past and he suggests that the original Knight might be required to actually achieve a revival.

 

For the moment I'm betting that bringing dead Knights back from the dead isn't actually required but whatever could fix the problem would be of a similar level of difficulty.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

This is why i think a Bondsmith is involved. Granted we know little of their capabilities and abilities, but given that Ishar created the oaths to organise the Surgebinders into one cohesive force, it isn't too far of a leap to guess that Bondsmiths could perhaps be included in the mending of a Nahel Bond or at least sever it completely to set the Spren free. As to how...well, we could speculate for hours on end and get nowhere   But Brandon's explanation of Kaladin healing his soul-severed arm brings to mind an interesting idea: the stormlight forms a blank soul patch over the severed spirit web section, like a skin graft. (or perhaps a more apt analogy could be enzymes/substrates and the 'lock and key' mechanism) so maybe something that can act as a substitute long enough to sever the bond maybe? Bah, damnation you Mr Sanderson and your billion-and-one questions!!!

 

EDIT: Another interesting WoB on theoryland got RAFO'd when asked What the effect of a Nahel Bond is on Lifespan

Edited July 14, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Guest]

My, admittedly vague, memory of Mr. Sanderson's description of a dead shardblade is that the part that enabled a bond got ripped out.  I would guess that whatever part was lost would have to be replaced or repaired before anything else can happen.  I suspect that this is why it would be so very hard to revive a dead spren.   According to Pattern this has been attempted without success in the past and he suggests that the original Knight might be required to actually achieve a revival.

 

For the moment I'm betting that bringing dead Knights back from the dead isn't actually required but whatever could fix the problem would be of a similar level of difficulty.

 

Brandon did state the original knights would be required to revive the dead-Blades. He then corrected himself in stating this was true for most cases, thus opening the door for the possibility of a rare Blade revival story line. In another WoB, he also said Adolin could do it, if he says the oaths (one, two, three? I can't believe he'd need to say all 5...) and if something more happened.

 

All in all, Brandon has confirmed it would be very hard, but he always was careful to not blatantly state it would be completely impossible... just very, very, very hard.

 

 

This is why i think a Bondsmith is involved. Granted we know little of their capabilities and abilities, but given that Ishar created the oaths to organise the Surgebinders into one cohesive force, it isn't too far of a leap to guess that Bondsmiths could perhaps be included in the mending of a Nahel Bond or at least sever it completely to set the Spren free. As to how...well, we could speculate for hours on end and get nowhere   But Brandon's explanation of Kaladin healing his soul-severed arm brings to mind an interesting idea: the stormlight forms a blank soul patch over the severed spirit web section, like a skin graft. (or perhaps a more apt analogy could be enzymes/substrates and the 'lock and key' mechanism) so maybe something that can act as a substitute long enough to sever the bond maybe? Bah, damnation you Mr Sanderson and your billion-and-one questions!!!

 

EDIT: Another interesting WoB on theoryland got RAFO'd when asked What the effect of a Nahel Bond is on Lifespan

 

It does fit my personal guess a Radiant is needed to help kick-start the revival process. Once the spren gains back enough conscience, I suspect the bond would work as any other Nahel bond.

[Arondell]

Brandon did state the original knights would be required to revive the dead-Blades. He then corrected himself in stating this was true for most cases, thus opening the door for the possibility of a rare Blade revival story line. In another WoB, he also said Adolin could do it, if he says the oaths (one, two, three? I can't believe he'd need to say all 5...) and if something more happened.

 

It does fit my personal guess a Radiant is needed to help kick-start the revival process. Once the spren gains back enough conscience, I suspect the bond would work as any other Nahel bond.

 

While thinking of something else entirely in the Cosmere this thought occurred to me.

 

Possible Warbreaker Spoiler

 

It has been a long time since I have read Warbreaker but could a Returned's divine breath heal a shardblade?  The Returned breath is in fact a splinter of Endowment so it would seem to have the right level of power to get the job done.  Is there any reason such an attempt would not work?

[natc]

I don't think you can really just fix a splinter up by infusing a second splinter into it. . .

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Depends, can it heal something that is effectively an idea? Perhaps maybe in Shardblade form but even then I doubt it, seeing as spren only gained awareness through the Nahel Bond to Humans so i don't think that kind of splinter has the right substance to fill in the gap

[Arondell]

Actually the Nahel bond spren didn't gain awareness through the bond precisely.  They need the bond to maintain awareness in the physical realm.  When the Knights broke there bond they apparently damaged the part of the sprens mind that made a bond even possible.  Which is why I speculate that one of the divine breaths, which seems to have the purpose of healing, could repair the damage.  At the moment I consider it a "maybe."

[Guest]

Actually the Nahel bond spren didn't gain awareness through the bond precisely.  They need the bond to maintain awareness in the physical realm.  When the Knights broke there bond they apparently damaged the part of the sprens mind that made a bond even possible.  Which is why I speculate that one of the divine breaths, which seems to have the purpose of healing, could repair the damage.  At the moment I consider it a "maybe."

 

And yet again Brandon confirmed the dead-sprens retained some conscience of the outside world... It is not severed, but seriously broken. Without this glimmer of conscience, dead-spren would not be able to alter their appearances as Dalinar confirmed they could, if hold for a long time. The tiny bond they do have must need more time to deepen.

 

There is something, but what is required to fix it, I am unsure. I doubt somehow another kind of investiture is required. Perhaps the dead-spren need to gain enough conscience to acknowledge the death of their former knight which would liberate them from any oath done to them and free them to bond another one? 

[VoidReleaser]

 

[–]Boogalyhu34 3 points

6 days ago * 

A few questions

1. Are oathgates fabrials that mimic the transportation surge? You have said that fabrials can copy all 10.

2. I asked you at minicon if Roshar had always been the only large landmass on the planet and I think you said that there was once no large land mass on Roshar. Did I hear you correctly? I've been kicking my self for months for not recording that small q and a.

3. What is the second ideal of the dustbringers, we know next to nothing about them.

4. What would happen to a bonded spren if it's human was hemallurgically spiked and had his surges stolen.

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[–]mistborn[S] 6 points

6 days ago 

1. This is a valid line of reasoning, but I'm not going to say yes or no.

2. You heard me right.

3. You'll have to wait until one is a main character.

4. RAFO.

Just throwing in my hat for Dustbringer!Adolin (hopefully)! 

[Bort he/him]

And yet again Brandon confirmed the dead-sprens retained some conscience of the outside world... It is not severed, but seriously broken. Without this glimmer of conscience, dead-spren would not be able to alter their appearances as Dalinar confirmed they could, if hold for a long time. The tiny bond they do have must need more time to deepen.

 

There is something, but what is required to fix it, I am unsure. I doubt somehow another kind of investiture is required. Perhaps the dead-spren need to gain enough conscience to acknowledge the death of their former knight which would liberate them from any oath done to them and free them to bond another one? 

 

This is why they needed the ten heartbeats to summon. It is basically waking the dead Blade to the point where it will manifest.

 

This is half of the reason I believe Adolin will wake his Balde eventually. not only does he use the ten heartbeats, he then sits and talks to his Blade. Thinking about it, the gemstone in the Blade was added after the Radiants used them, seemingly as a focus for the bond between Shardblade and wielder. Adolin is going to need to have his gem shattered, I think, before his spren will truly wake.

[Guest]

This is why they needed the ten heartbeats to summon. It is basically waking the dead Blade to the point where it will manifest.

 

This is half of the reason I believe Adolin will wake his Balde eventually. not only does he use the ten heartbeats, he then sits and talks to his Blade. Thinking about it, the gemstone in the Blade was added after the Radiants used them, seemingly as a focus for the bond between Shardblade and wielder. Adolin is going to need to have his gem shattered, I think, before his spren will truly wake.

 

I have stated a few times I thought Adolin needed to unbound his Blade to bound it properly. My thoughts have always been he would lose his Shards in the course of the next book, either he will be defeated in combat or he will be forced to hand them over. I am unsure which option I like the best.

[hypatia she/her]

I also think of Adolin as a Knight Radiant, but now after the title for book 3 I think it possible the connection could be to Oathbringer.

Perhaps he needs to confess - I don't mind killing Sadeas so much, but trying to hide his deed - this was so "Un-Adolin-Like".

I like the idea with him forced to hand over his blade(s), this would show if he has succeeded in bonding a spren.

[Samgevas]

Two thoughts, both wild speculation.

First, I think him leaving on his own might be a plausible plot. A lot of people in his situation would see just running away as preferible to facing disappointing their family. His story could become one of the recurring interludes. The consequences of killing sadeas, and reconciliation with his family and the law would be put off until significantly later in the main plot.

Second, shallan was able to loan pattern to kaliden durring the Chasmfiend fight scene. And we have many insences where bonded spren interact with people they aren't bonded to. If adolin is able to at least partially recessatate his blade, but unable to transfer the bond, you'd have a very interesting set up. We see several relationships between KR and their bonded spren, but a relationship between adolin and a broken spren that's still bonded to a dead dude who betrayed her would be a cool indeed. This would also elevate adolin to were he would once again be relivent in combat, not on par with a full radiant, but something in between.

Wild Wild speculation

Related Side note; do we know if once a radiant dies, their spren are forced to return to shads-mar or can they stay in the physical? And if they can how long until they lose their consiencness? Or do they?

Thanks

Edited July 23, 2015 by Samgevas

[Guest]

I also think of Adolin as a Knight Radiant, but now after the title for book 3 I think it possible the connection could be to Oathbringer.

Perhaps he needs to confess - I don't mind killing Sadeas so much, but trying to hide his deed - this was so "Un-Adolin-Like".

I like the idea with him forced to hand over his blade(s), this would show if he has succeeded in bonding a spren.

 

As for Adolin trying to hide his deed, I would argue he was in a state of shock at the time. He was not thinking clearly and he was presumably in denial, which is a very natural reaction upon making a terrible mistake...

 

For instance, I once broke my mother-in-law's favorite coffee mug, you know the one with cats on it. I felt so bad about it, I actually hid the broken cup and pretended I did not know what befallen it  Pretty stupid, but I just wanted the cup to un-broke   I did not tell the truth until I had a plan crafted out to replace the said cup.

 

So Adolin hiding it? Absolutely normal. He is in shock.

 

 

Two thoughts, both wild speculation.

First, I think him leaving on his own might be a plausible plot. A lot of people in his situation would see just running away as preferible to facing disappointing their family. His story could become one of the recurring interludes. The consequences of killing sadeas, and reconciliation with his family and the law would be put off until significantly later in the main plot.

 

Oh Adolin running away in order to protect his family from himself is among my potential plot line for him, but it is is not my favorite. It would be within character to sacrifice himself (cutting all ties to his loved ones and auto-exiling himself) in order to favor Dalinar. However, I think Adolin on the run, wouls unbound his Blade before leaving.

[hypatia she/her]

@ maxal

Oh yes, I know this reaction all too well (No, it wasn't me who crashed the car of my mother in a wall - it was the wall).

But it was a failure and there will be accusations - wrong accusations.

Right - at the moment it is panic and I don't daubt Adolin will later tell the truth.

On the other hand - he is the one with the right of a duell with Sadeas.

Since this time it was clear that he will kill Sadeas - without Kaladin right after the 4:1 duell.

A question, I can't remember:

Does a shardblade always manifest after his owener is killed?

I know they doesn't disappear, but was there a example in the books, what happens when the shardbearer is killed without his blade?

[Guest]

@ maxal

Oh yes, I know this reaction all too well (No, it wasn't me who crashed the car of my mother in a wall - it was the wall).

 

Oh yeah cars..... When I was 18 years old, on the last day to send in applications for University, I had borough my father's minivan. I was stressed out because I just did not know what I wanted to do, so when I tried to park the minivan I accidentally rammed the right wing into the bumper of another parked car 

 

I recall the noise it made. Awful and idiot me thinking: "Perhaps it is not so bad.."   Until I went and see. It was horrible. I had destroyed the entire right wing of my father's prized minivan. My father LOVES his cars with a fierce passion even when they are mere minivans....

 

I was in complete total shock: NO WAY I could EVER tell my father I destroyed his car.

 

I recalled the talk at the cafeteria when the guys told me it would cost in the 4 number to repair it. I was 18. I did not have such money.

 

I also recall driving like crazy trying to find a garage to repair the car before my father could find out about it..... silly me until I finally picked up the phone, shaking and announced the breaking news: "Dad, something happened to the car... Do not get mad... I got to the parking lot and someone rammed in it. I swear, I saw nothing." 

 

Yeah. I blamed it on a hit and run. I even filled in a police report for the insurance where I solemnly swore it was a hit and run. I never told my father the truth, even to this day.     

 

I so relate to Adolin here... He just wants to un-kill Sadeas and erase what he has just done, even if he is not sorry the crem infested eel is dead.

 

 

Right - at the moment it is panic and I don't daubt Adolin will later tell the truth.

 

Of course he will tell. I am 99% convinced he will tell the truth at some point.

 

 

A question, I can't remember:

Does a shardblade always manifest after his owener is killed?

I know they doesn't disappear, but was there a example in the books, what happens when the shardbearer is killed without his blade?

 

Yes. When the owner dies, the bound with the Blade is severed and it reappears in the physical realm. It does not matter if the owner was yielding it at the time of death.

Edited July 23, 2015 by maxal

[+Wax he/him]

Ok.. I do have a theory on Adolin.

In the two fights with Szeth, Adolin has been pinned or pur away, as if Szeth did not want to hurt or kill him. Whereas in other attacks on kings, he slaughtered everyone.

This makes me think that the diagram has a particular reference for him - which ensures that Szeth did not kill him on Taravangian's instructions.

Thoughts?

[hoser he/him]

That is an excellent point, as Szeth was explicitly instructed to make the assassinations bloody.  On the other hand, he was in the process of wantonly murdering him when Kaladin rescued Dalinar and attacked Szeth.  It is not clear why Szeth fought Adolin before Dalinar, either. 

[+Wax he/him]

That is an excellent point, as Szeth was explicitly instructed to make the assassinations bloody. On the other hand, he was in the process of wantonly murdering him when Kaladin rescued Dalinar and attacked Szeth. It is not clear why Szeth fought Adolin before Dalinar, either.

Szeth pinned Adolin to the roof the first time around. The 2nd time, he had punched him out far away to keep him from the fight. Before Adolin tried to get back in the fight.

[Bort he/him]

I put that down to Szeth being a generally unbloodthirsty person. The massacres he committed were because he was told to, not because it was fun. Mr T. didn't tell Szeth to butcher everyone in his path when killed Dalinar, just that Dalinar had to die.

 

Since that was then left up to Szeth, he was probably trying to avoid unnecessary deaths.

[hoser he/him]

I put that down to Szeth being a generally unbloodthirsty person. The massacres he committed were because he was told to, not because it was fun. Mr T. didn't tell Szeth to butcher everyone in his path when killed Dalinar, just that Dalinar had to die.

 

Since that was then left up to Szeth, he was probably trying to avoid unnecessary deaths.

I beg to differ.  To me, the "It must be done brutally" requires him to take unnecessary life. 

 

“Dalinar Kholin,” Taravangian said. “I’m afraid it must be done quickly, before he can unite the Alethi highprinces. You will go to the Shattered Plains and end him.” He hesitated. “It must be done brutally, I’m afraid.” “I have rarely had the luxury of working otherwise,” Szeth said, closing his eyes.

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 977). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.