Adolin Radiancy? (Potential Spoilers)

[Bort he/him]

Ah, yes. Sorry, I had completely forgotten that line. My mistake.

[DreamEternal]

Since Szeth was trained as a assassin and spies on his targets before atacking (see: WoK, chapter 71: Recorded in blood) he most likely knew Adolin was dangerous in the first fight and just got him out of the way so he could kill his father. In the second fight, he had just thrown two hiprinces into the sky and slaughtered their guards, so he probably thought it was brutal and bloody enough for Mr.T.

[EvilNuff]

While thinking of something else entirely in the Cosmere this thought occurred to me.

 

Possible Warbreaker Spoiler

 

It has been a long time since I have read Warbreaker but could a Returned's divine breath heal a shardblade?  The Returned breath is in fact a splinter of Endowment so it would seem to have the right level of power to get the job done.  Is there any reason such an attempt would not work?

 

I seem to recall there was a WoB on this, but I do not have time to look for it just now.  I will edit in a link if I can find it later on.  

 

 

Just throwing in my hat for Dustbringer!Adolin (hopefully)!  

 

I seem to be full of un-attributed comments today, sorry!  As I recall his blade is an edgedancer's blade so if he awakens it and bonds with it that would make him an edgedancer.

[Guest]

As to Szeth purposely not killing Adolin: I had had the same reflection. Back in their first encounter, Adolin is the first to attack and he gets promptly latch to the ceiling. He tries to keep on fighting, but as stormlight leaves him, he falls back down, landing partly on his head. He is then stunned, on the floor, unable to pick himself up and Szeth walks over him to get to Dalinar. Szeth could have killed Adolin right here. Easy. One stroke and he is dead, but he didn't. He did not seem so keen on mercy when fighting Kaladin...

 

In the last fight, Szeth goes to meet Adolin before facing Dalinar. We can assume he wanted to take out of the fight, but why trust him, defeated and beaten, to Dalinar's feet? Why not kill him?

 

After Szeth kills Dalinar, Adolin tries to charge. Szeth's first reaction, before he goes mad, is to let Adolin go, to ignore him... Only at the very end did he go for the kill, but all hints indicate killing Adolin was not in Szeth mandate. However, as others have pointed out, Szeth was asked to leave a blood trail, so why not slay Adolin? He killed Highprince Roion after having fought Adolin. He kills Roion, but he spares Adolin.

 

I am not entirely convinced it means anything, but I have jungle with the thought Taravangian does not want Adolin dead. Perhaps he has a use for him, perhaps he wished to turn the son into the Blackthorn shall the father failed to regain his former self. 

[CJ Feboris]

This is a fascinating thread, I really like the idea of Adolin reawakening his blade through their conversations. He would probably need to start having more of those. The really neat part would be that if the blade could be reawakened, it would allow for the potential instruction of the radiants by one that had been one. Although it seems Syl might have been one previously too since she "remembers" things from the past. If he could revive his blade, then, assuming the dead Spren did not forget everything, it might make for instruction so t the radiants aren't so in the dark, but then again, this is the problem that BS wants to work with, so I may be way off.

EDIT: typos

Edited October 30, 2015 by CJ lidmk

[Guest]

This is a fascinating thread, I really like the idea of Adolin reawakening his blade throug their conversations. He would probably need to start having more of those. The really neat part would be that if the blade could be reawakened, it would allow for the potential instruction of the radiants by one that had been one. Although it seems Syl might have been one previously too since she "remembers" things from the past. If he could revive his blade, then, assuming the dead Spren did not forget everything, it might make for instruction so t the radiants aren't so in the dark, but then again, this is the problem that BS wants to work with, so I may be way off.

 

I had wondered of a re-awaken spren would get its memories back or if they are lost forever... Based on their screaming pattern, I think they probably remember their previous knight... So Adolin's spren would need to first, acknowledge its former knight died, thus severing the link it once had with it and then bond Adolin in the standard way, but the memories would remain.

 

As well as the memories of the hundred of years being used as a Shardblade to slay people... 

 

Adolin, you have work to do with this one. Strangely, you may be the only one able to make it happen.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Actually, i think it might be the opposite Maxal, or at least, some of it anyway.

 

In the case of Syl; if she was a pre-bonded spren before and her radiant died, I could see it being the fact that as there is no Radiant to give her the benefits of the bond then the memories/sentience will start to fade, which would explain why she remembers some things.

 

Dead Sprenblades might be different than this scenario given that the bond was broken and not severed forcefully. I reckon that should a spren reawaken, the amount of pain they're in combined with the shock of suddenly becoming aware again, may cause the memories to fade a lot quicker, or at least block them out

Edited July 25, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[+Wax he/him]

Hm... Just a thought. Maybe reawakening involves reconnecting the nahel bond?

Sounds like a bondsmiths job?

[DreamEternal]

Hm... Just a thought. Maybe reawakening involves reconnecting the nahel bond?

Sounds like a bondsmiths job?

To add to this point, when the Stornfather tries to hold Syl back and she says he can't stop her if Kaladin says the worlds, it is made clear that he could keed her from reconecting the bond, wich may indicate that he has some power over the nahel bond. Remember that by that time Syl was already ressurected, but not fully bonded, possibly being held at shadesmar.

[Guest]

Actually, i think it might be the opposite Maxal, or at least, some of it anyway.

 

In the case of Syl; if she was a pre-bonded spren before and her radiant died, I could see it being the fact that as there is no Radiant to give her the benefits of the bond then the memories/sentience will start to fade, which would explain why she remembers some things.

 

Dead Sprenblades might be different than this scenario given that the bond was broken and not severed forcefully. I reckon that should a spren reawaken, the amount of pain they're in combined with the shock of suddenly becoming aware again, may cause the memories to fade a lot quicker, or at least block them out

 

Maybe. I am not entirely sure about anything when it comes to re-awakening a Blade. However, we do know they scream and they accused any Radiant yielding them of having killed them... This implies they remember the betrayal: they may remember more or nothing at all. It could be being trapped within a bond that did not terminate appropriately (meaning the knight died and they acknowledged it), they are stuck reliving the same moments over and over again. It could be time did not move for them, despite it being hundred of years. In comparison, Syl has not bond a human for hundred of years: she forgot. Her memories faded. The dead-spren memories MAYBE did not fade so much because they are half stuck within the physical realm.

 

Brandon also state breaking the bond would be the equivalent of riping away its hard drive or something akin to it. I am completely unsure of how it actually works (the dead-Blades not the hard drive). So it is highly possible they remember nothing, but their scream of pain and their "You killed me" yells tells me the do remember some....

 

So anyway, kind of not a lot to grasp on.

[CJ Feboris]

Brandon also state breaking the bond would be the equivalent of riping away its hard drive or something akin to it. I am completely unsure of how it actually works (the dead-Blades not the hard drive). So it is highly possible they remember nothing, but their scream of pain and their "You killed me" yells tells me the do remember some....

 

I think maxal is right on this one, when Kaladin catches the blade in the arena and causes the bearer to hear the screams, he screams "I didn't kill you" as he is running away. This also appears to "awaken" the spren of the blade for a time because it appears to be screaming for quite a while as he is running away. This could indicate that the touch of another radiant could shock the blade awake somehow, but maybe not permanently. If the combination of a radiant's touch and Adolin's compassion / relationship with the blade help ease the transition it would be very interesting. 

[Guest]

I think maxal is right on this one, when Kaladin catches the blade in the arena and causes the bearer to hear the screams, he screams "I didn't kill you" as he is running away. This also appears to "awaken" the spren of the blade for a time because it appears to be screaming for quite a while as he is running away. This could indicate that the touch of another radiant could shock the blade awake somehow, but maybe not permanently. If the combination of a radiant's touch and Adolin's compassion / relationship with the blade help ease the transition it would be very interesting. 

 

We are tackling with the unknown... We do not know if the dead-sprens are permanently screaming, but nobody except a Radiant can here them or if they scream because a Radiant touched them... It is thus unlikely Relis was still hearing it as he was running, but he seemed to have experienced a complete mental break down, a reaction I have always found... extreme.

 

Dalinar, Shallan, Kaladin and Renarin are all seen touching dead-Blades and none have such a striking reaction to it. What do they have in common? They all are Radiants... I thus wonder if the experience was not worst for Relis because he did not have a Nahel bond. I guess this is still up for grab.

 

As for the revival process, I hope we knew more. It is possible the touch of a Radiant is required, but based on what happened to Relis, I fear for what will happen to Adolin should he risk it.

[Bort he/him]

I got the impression that Shallan did something to distract him.

[RandomSpeculation]

My thought has always been that Adolin is either going to become a radiant, or not make it through the first half of SA(books 1-5).  As I hope Adolin doesn't bite the dust, I think he's going to become a Dustbringer.

 

There are the obvious attributes of obedient and brave, which fit Adolin perfectly, but a lot of my reasoning comes from gut feelings about how I picture the Order of Dustbringers.  Take a look at what we know about the combat oriented orders.  The Windrunners do what is right, regardless of the law. The Skybreakers always follow the law, regardless of morality.  The Edgedancers look out for those who have been forgotten.  I see the Dustbringers as the order that does what is necessary, even if it is distasteful.  This could tie in to how they seem to be misunderstood and have a bad rep, and matches up well to Adolin's encounter with a certain Highprince at the end of WoR.  

 

I couldn't find it, but I remember a WoB that said we have met a radiant or proto-radiant from each order by the end of book 2.  Who else other than Adolin is a good candidate for Dustbringer?  Also giving one of Roshars top duelists an uber destructive skill set like the Dustbringers possess, is imo too good of an opportunity to pass up 

[Guest]

My thought has always been that Adolin is either going to become a radiant, or not make it through the first half of SA(books 1-5).  As I hope Adolin doesn't bite the dust, I think he's going to become a Dustbringer.

 

There are the obvious attributes of obedient and brave, which fit Adolin perfectly, but a lot of my reasoning comes from gut feelings about how I picture the Order of Dustbringers.  Take a look at what we know about the combat oriented orders.  The Windrunners do what is right, regardless of the law. The Skybreakers always follow the law, regardless of morality.  The Edgedancers look out for those who have been forgotten.  I see the Dustbringers as the order that does what is necessary, even if it is distasteful.  This could tie in to how they seem to be misunderstood and have a bad rep, and matches up well to Adolin's encounter with a certain Highprince at the end of WoR.  

 

I couldn't find it, but I remember a WoB that said we have met a radiant or proto-radiant from each order by the end of book 2.  Who else other than Adolin is a good candidate for Dustbringer?  Also giving one of Roshars top duelists an uber destructive skill set like the Dustbringers possess, is imo too good of an opportunity to pass up 

 

 

You really have to read the Adolin becomes an Edgedancer theory  Adolin is brave, but he is not outstanding in that matter. He is not braver than any other character we have encountered, even better we have never seen him try to surmount one of his fears... I suspect that is because Adolin is not afraid much for himself, but mostly for others. As long as they are fine, he'll take the hits, even if it rises panic in him. 

 

We do not know much about the Dustbringers either and all questions asked on that subject were answered by RAFO or deflected. There indeed is a WoB stating we have met one member of each order, however it does not make the difference between main Radiants or minor ones. 

 

It has also been assumed Dustbringers are the bringers of havoc on the battlefield and misunderstood angry people. To think this role would suit Adolin is to misunderstand him, I think. He is not a soldier at heart: he is a duelist forced to become a soldier. He is a good soldier, but he lost it at the end. Can he still stomach warfare now he lost the Thrill? That is yet to be seen, but one thing is for sure, Adolin is not a weapon of mass destruction nor do I think he'd want to be one. This would exactly be the kind of behavior likely to destroy him, in the long run.

 

So no, I don't think there is much ground anymore for the Dustbringer theory. It worked over a year ago before we had time to analyse Adolin's character in all his facets. It is the obvious theory on the first approach, but it fails the in-depth analysis.

 

As for other in-book contenders, here are a few: Rysn, Reddin, Moash.

 

Edit: Tried to fix the spelling... I'm terrible.

Edited September 26, 2015 by maxal

[Lord Ruler he/him]

Yeah don't you guys think Adolin will be a Radiant? The desolation is coming and there were tons of Radiants in the past.

[Lord Ruler he/him]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there 10 Knights in each order? I could have just made that up but I remember reading that somewhere in the first book.

[DreamEternal]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there 10 Knights in each order? I could have just made that up but I remember reading that somewhere in the first book.

No. It is just your mind. There were hundreds in some orders, and the Bondsmiths were generaly only three.

[Guest]

Yeah don't you guys think Adolin will be a Radiant? The desolation is coming and there were tons of Radiants in the past.

 

Of course, I think he will. You are talking the self-proclaimed head-mistress of the "Adolin will revive his dead-Blade and become an Edgedancer" theory and the self-proclaimed so-called expert on all matters pertaining Adolin.

 

I feel humble today 

 

The theory technically is not mine. It was brought forward by other forumers now disappeared  , but I have since endorse it.

[Moogle]

There are the obvious attributes of obedient and brave, which fit Adolin perfectly, but a lot of my reasoning comes from gut feelings about how I picture the Order of Dustbringers.  Take a look at what we know about the combat oriented orders.  The Windrunners do what is right, regardless of the law. The Skybreakers always follow the law, regardless of morality.  The Edgedancers look out for those who have been forgotten.  I see the Dustbringers as the order that does what is necessary, even if it is distasteful.  This could tie in to how they seem to be misunderstood and have a bad rep, and matches up well to Adolin's encounter with a certain Highprince at the end of WoR. 

 

I don't know if I'm entirely on board with this analysis. The Dustbringers' traits are Brave/Obedient according to the Ars Arcanum. While we know these traits aren't straightforward (Shallan is Creative/Honest!) they do some seem to have a significant relationship to the order's temperament.

 

I can sort of get behind the traits applying to your idea (you have to be brave to do things other people are going to disapprove of), but the 'obedient' bit is tripping me up. Adolin's very obedient, but his defining character moment is defying Dalinar and killing Sadeas. I don't want to draw too much from the untrustworthy Ars Arcanum traits, but it doesn't quite seem to fit to me, and that's about all all the evidence we have on the Dustbringers.

 

("Doing what is necessary" also doesn't sound very honorable. Dustbringers did have a female Herald though, so that's not too strong of a strike against it.)

 

I could get behind them being a "destroy evil" sort of order. Where Kaladin protects, the Dustbringers attack. A Dustbringer might killed Amaram, in contrast to Syl asking Kaladin not to. But I still can't link that to the attributes beyond the very tenuous "brave" meaning "kill people even though everyone's going to hate you", and that just brings me back to your "do what is necessary" thing.

[RandomSpeculation]

I maybe could have explained the "do what is necessary" thing a little better.  I'm not talking about things like killing off the sick so you can hear their death rattles.  I was thinking more along the lines of sometimes every choice is bad, and you gotta make the one that saves the most people.  There is a strong argument to be made that Sadeas continuing to undermine the leadership was gonna get a lot of people killed when the desolation started, and Adolin saved a lot of people by taking him out.  Also Adolin seems to be a very front line fighter from the battles we've seen him in so far, and I picture the Dustbringers as THE front line order.

 

I'm not very sold on him reviving his blade,  but I'll give the Edgedancer theory a read, you have a link?

[Guest]

I maybe could have explained the "do what is necessary" thing a little better.  I'm not talking about things like killing off the sick so you can hear their death rattles.  I was thinking more along the lines of sometimes every choice is bad, and you gotta make the one that saves the most people.  There is a strong argument to be made that Sadeas continuing to undermine the leadership was gonna get a lot of people killed when the desolation started, and Adolin saved a lot of people by taking him out.  Also Adolin seems to be a very front line fighter from the battles we've seen him in so far, and I picture the Dustbringers as THE front line order.

 

I'm not very sold on him reviving his blade,  but I'll give the Edgedancer theory a read, you have a link?

 

Yeah.... It was discussed in many threads... I guess it is perhaps easier to answer to your questions. What would you want to know about the Egdedancer theory and what sets you off? I think it is best to address it from this angle.

[RandomSpeculation]

It seems the biggest argument that he would go Edgedancer is the fact that his blade used to belong to one.  Brandon has said reviving a blade would be super difficult and usually require the original bonding radiant still be alive.  Another point is that Edgedancers fight along the periphery and focus on lost and forgotten people.  I see Adolin as too much of a rally point and front and center person for that role.  

Edited September 28, 2015 by RandomSpeculation

[Moogle]

It seems the biggest argument that he would go Edgedancer is the fact that his blade used to belong to one.  Brandon has said reviving a blade would be super difficult and usually require the original bonding radiant still be alive.  Another point is that Edgedancers fight along the periphery and focus on lost and forgotten people.  I see Adolin as too much of a rally point and front and center person for that role.  

 

I disagree. I think the best argument is Adolin's scene with the prostitute in WoK. "I will remember those who have been forgotten" fits that one to a T. Certainly a non-Edgedancer might have done the same thing, but take a look at this passage from WoR:

 

"When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants."

 

This really evokes Adolin, to me. His thing is dueling, which fits this description. He's also very refined (into fashion/uses cologne in prison).

[Guest]

It seems the biggest argument that he would go Edgedancer is the fact that his blade used to belong to one.  Brandon has said reviving a blade would be super difficult and usually require the original bonding radiant still be alive.  Another point is that Edgedancers fight along the periphery and focus on lost and forgotten people.  I see Adolin as too much of a rally point and front and center person for that role.  

 

The Edgedancer theory existed before we knew Adolin's Blade belonged to this order. Back in the early days following the release of WoR, there were many discussions following Adolin's potential future. At the time, the Dustbringer theory was, by far, the most popular. 

 

It surfed on the idea Adolin was driven by anger, brave and very obedient to his father. The description of the Order, according to the Arcs Arcanum depicts them as misunderstood feared individuals which most people thought befitted Adolin like a glove. After all, didn't he murder Sadeas in a spite of rage? Didn't he express anger on a regular basis through out both books? Isn't he a weapon of mass destruction each time he puts his Plate on? Wouldn't he be awesome with the surge of division, turning the battlefield into a wave of fire obliterating all living souls in one angry gesture?

 

Wouldn't he?

 

Yes, he would, if he weren't Adolin. Does Adolin truly befits the angry spiteful young man image the early discussions loved to convey?

 

No. He isn't.

 

Way of Kings

 

Adolin's anger is not his driving force, but the expression of his own incapacity at protecting those he loves.

 

"Everything is a contest," Sadeas said with a wave of his hand. "All dealings among men are a contest in which some will succeed and others fail. And some are failing quite spectacularly."

 

"My father is one of the most renowned warriors in Alethkar!" Adolin snapped, butting into the group.THe king raised an eyebrow at him, but otherwise stayed out of the conversation. "You saw what he did earlier, Sadeas while you were hiding back by the pavilion with your bow. My father held off the beast. You're a cowa-"

 

"Adolin!" Dalinar said. That was going too far. "Restrain yourself."

 

Adolin clenched his jaw, hand to his side, as if itching to summon his Shardblade.

 

Words of Radiance

 

"If you lose your mind as you age, pray the Almighty there are people like myself willing to give you a good death. People who care enough not to snicker, but instead hold of the sword for you as you fall on it."

 

"I'll have your throat in my hands, Sadeas," Adolin hissed. "I'll squeeze and squeeze, then I'll sink my dagger into your gut and twist. A quick death is too good for you."

 

Those are only two examples where we see Adolin flare his anger, both times in response to Sadeas's threats. However, both times have one common denominator: Dalinar. 

 

Way of Kings

 

What did you do, as a son, when the man you loved – the greatest man alive – started to lose his wits?

 

Adolin loved Dalinar. In fact, he loves him so much he can't bear seeing people attack his father. Each time he is powerless to act, each time he resolves himself to anger as he can't deal with it rationally. 

 

Way of Kings

 

The loss of Galivar had nearly crushed Dalinar, and Adolin would never forgive the Parshendis for bringing his father such pain. Never. Men fought on the Plains for different reasons, but this was why Adolin had come. Perhaps if they beat the Parshendis, his father would go back to the man he had been. Perhaps those ghostly delusions that haunted him would vanish.

 

Adolin loves his father so much, he joined a war in a naive attempt to erase his pain at losing Galivar. So while Adolin does act of anger, it always is in response to threads to Dalinar's safety and credibility. 

 

Therefore, I must ask, what drives him, anger or love?

 

This is where lay the core of the Edgedancer theory. Unlike your claims, it has nothing to do with the Blade, though it has helped bringing people into that wagon, but it has everything to do with love.

 

The Dustbringer theory also sits on the false conception Adolin a foolhardy adrenaline junky which befits most people imagery of "brave". Can we spare a few moments to ask ourselves what brave means? It means to face his fears, to not let your fears stop you... Therefore I must ask: Is Adolin brave? I suppose so, but what does he fear? 

 

Adolin fears losing his family. In fact, he is terrified he'll lose them, he is terrified a thread he has not foreseen would take them away from him at a time where he is not prepared. It is why Adolin spends a whole night sitting at his father's doorstep, wearing his Plate and chewing a wake-up root, such as to be ready for the next attack. It is also why he goes sword throwing the next morning and is incapable to summon an easy command while admitting being unable to think rationally. 

 

Adolin was afraid then. What did he do? He resolved himself to wear his Plate, always, until his father tells him to just remove it. Afterwards, he gets more and more unnerved in front of Sadeas up until their last encounter. 

 

Has Adolin ever faced his fear of losing his father? Certainly not: he killed a man to remove a thread, but he did not face the fear so to speak. Is he brave? Surely, but is he brave enough for a Dustbringer? I think not. A Dustbringer, I feel, would not have let strong emotions mixed with fear take control of him, a Dustbringer probably fights of all fears until he braved them all. That's not Adolin...

 

As for your last comment, I'd say we cannot base ourselves on the roles of each individual within a given order simply based on Nale's hateful speech. Adolin is a deadly fighter, but not one who enjoys killing or the mass destruction. Towards the end of WoR, he drops his Blade in disgust, feeling sick, in front the carnage he was forced to do. He may have lost the Thrill, but Dalinar himself did not react so violently. He called it butchery, incidentally, the same term he used, two times, to describe hunting, a sport he detests. 

 

So no, I'd say Adolin does not have the making of a weapon of mass destruction and simply because he is a good fighter does not mean his destiny is to kill them all on the battlefield... 

 

Now this is getting quite lengthy. I could, of course, keep on going on and on and on. I could mention all the tiny moments where Adolin is seen to care for forgotten people: a prostitute being molested, a darkeyed captain unjustly imprisoned, a water boy, dead soldiers he seem to be the only one to mourn, a dead mother, a dead Blade... I could also mention how attached he is to his tiny traditions which may sound silly to Navani, but do matter, to him which does remind us of a certain Lift who insists on carrying a lucky diamond chip...

 

I could talk of all of these little things giving us further hints Adolin has the making of an Edgedancer, he just hasn't set foot on the path yet. So you see, it is not JUST the Blade... It is way more than the Blade.