Adolin Radiancy? (Potential Spoilers)

[Maya389 she/her]

if Adolin became a radiant that would mean that all three of the kohlins would be radiants...

[Maya389 she/her]

oh and also theres Jasnah so four not three

[maxal she/her]

And?

 

I feel a character should become a Radiant if his path brings him there, but shouldn't be prevented from it simply because "there are too many Kholin knights already...".

[Maya389 she/her]

And?

 

I feel a character should become a Radiant if his path brings him there, but shouldn't be prevented from it simply because "there are too many Kholin knights already...".

Ya thats true.

[natc]

If anything it means being royalty tends to cause emotional trauma very frequently.

Also, watch those doubleposts.

[Jondesu he/him]

Taravangian seemed to expect it was possible another Kholin was a Radiant.  I wonder if it does have family connections, or if he simply made an assumption based on when he was told that a surgebinder had protected Dalinar.

 

jW

[Rockbud he/him]

Re: what might be required to revive a dead blade; there might be a clue in that they can be heard screaming when a bonded individual touches them.

Is this because that individual has a corresponding spirit web, if incompatible/occupied?

How about the dueling arena scene where hearing the blades accusations of murder almost make a normal (for all we know) guy loose his marbles?

Either way this seems the greatest interaction anyone has had with a dead blade so far. It might be a key step to bringing back the spren.

[sprint]

oh and also theres Jasnah so four not three

 

Elhokar also mentions seeing visions of beings similar in description to cryptic. I'm sure there is another thread or two were it has been suggested that he is also a potential radiant.

 

That would make 5...

[DSC01 he/him]

Without directly replying to any one person above, but just kind of addressing the general attitude about killing Sadeas being a barrier to Adolin's Radiancy, I think that's not quite it. I can't remember where/when I read it, but I believe Brandon said that some of the Orders would have specifically approved of Adolin's actions. I think he will feel guilty about it because, in his society, his action was very wrong. I think what he needs to do is actually embrace what he did. Everyone thinks it's sending him down a dark road, etc. But, ultimately, I think he did the right thing, and the Order he ends up in will be all about that kind of action. It wasn't a murder; it was an assassination. 

[Ari he/him]

Without directly replying to any one person above, but just kind of addressing the general attitude about killing Sadeas being a barrier to Adolin's Radiancy, I think that's not quite it. I can't remember where/when I read it, but I believe Brandon said that some of the Orders would have specifically approved of Adolin's actions. I think he will feel guilty about it because, in his society, his action was very wrong. I think what he needs to do is actually embrace what he did. Everyone thinks it's sending him down a dark road, etc. But, ultimately, I think he did the right thing, and the Order he ends up in will be all about that kind of action. It wasn't a murder; it was an assassination. 

 

Brandon mentioned that the Dustbringers and Willshapers would approve of what he had done. So if Adolin is to become a Radiant, he'd likely fit into one of those two orders, as it seems like murder is something very few of the orders would be forgiving about, and that would block him from attracting the necessary Spren.

 

I could go either way on radiant!Adolin. I think it's not necessary to the plot or to him as a character right now, and that it might be more interesting for him to have to deal with practically his entire family, including his fiancee, being Radiants, while all he gets are dead shards. But I also like seeing more radiants, and it's certainly not off the cards for him yet. So *shrug*.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Ari

[maxal she/her]

Brandon mentioned that the Dustbringers and Willshapers would approve of what he had done. So if Adolin is to become a Radiant, he'd likely fit into one of those two orders, as it seems like murder is something very few of the orders would be forgiving about, and that would block him from attracting the necessary Spren.

 

I could go either way on radiant!Adolin. I think it's not necessary to the plot or to him as a character right now, and that it might be more interesting for him to have to deal with practically his entire family, including his fiancee, being Radiants, while all he gets are dead shards. But I also like seeing more radiants, and it's certainly not off the cards for him yet. So *shrug*.

 

To be fair, people asked questions about the Willshapers and the Dustbringers directly. They asked if those specific orders would take him and Brandon said yes. He never said anything about the others, except the Skybreakers who would not want him. Therefore, if Adolin were to become a Radiant, he is not restricted to those two orders. 

 

We also know Elsecaller and Lightweavers are fine with murder, even planned assassination for dubious motives in the case of the first. 

 

It is wrong to assume most orders would disapprove of murder: it seems they would approve, as long as the murder does not disagree with the oaths they swore. Since Adolin had motives to kill Sadeas and was not acting for selfish reasons, it is safe to assume he has not been violating the morality of most orders.

 

Adolin may not need to become a Radiant for the plot to advance, but perhaps he needs to in order to grow as a character. Of course, it is not a requirement, but nothing truly is. Jasnah did not need to come back from the "death" either, but she did. Surely she will have something to bring to the story, just as Adolin will have his purpose. We just do not know of it, yet, but if he becomes a Radiant, we can be sure it will be relevant.

 

This being said, I suspect he will have to deal with being a "normal" human with "dead Shards everyone hates but him" for a long while before he starts to mutter any oath.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Most people here seem to think that if Adolin becomes a Shardbearer, killing Sadeas is what will break him. I had another idea that no one has mentioned yet.

What if Adolin finds out that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher and could no longer remember Adolin's mother? Adolin idolizes Dalinar, but he obviously cares about remembering his mother as well. If Adolin realized that Dalinar couldn't remember her because of Dalinar's own actions, especially if it was a boon from asking something like I don't want to feel the pain of my wife's death, it could easily shatter Adolin's view of the world. After this revelation he could turn to the one thing that hasn't changed - his Shardblade. This storyline would also be a cool way to watch him mature and become more of his own person.

This theory is probably mostly wishful thinking on my part.

[maxal she/her]

Most people here seem to think that if Adolin becomes a Shardbearer, killing Sadeas is what will break him. I had another idea that no one has mentioned yet.

What if Adolin finds out that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher and could no longer remember Adolin's mother? Adolin idolizes Dalinar, but he obviously cares about remembering his mother as well. If Adolin realized that Dalinar couldn't remember her because of Dalinar's own actions, especially if it was a boon from asking something like I don't want to feel the pain of my wife's death, it could easily shatter Adolin's view of the world. After this revelation he could turn to the one thing that hasn't changed - his Shardblade. This storyline would also be a cool way to watch him mature and become more of his own person.

This theory is probably mostly wishful thinking on my part.

 

No, it is not just wishful thinking... I do think the truth about Dalinar having forgotten his wife will come out in the near future. I also believe Adolin will be the one to react badly to this (I also suspect Renarin to have figure out the truth a while ago). While he idolizes his father, he deeply loved his mother and more importantly, he cherishes his memories of her. He carries a necklace who belonged to her on him and believes it brings him good luck. He likes when Navani goes motherly on him which is exactly the opposite of what you would expect from a young man his age. All in all, clues indicate Adolin does miss his mother, so finding out his father purposefully (or not) forgot about her will be a blow. Another one.

 

I like when you say he may end up turning to the one unchanged thing in his life: his Blade. It is true Adolin has been pictured as someone who does not like drastic changes: each time he is faced with it, he reacts badly. Therefore, as the world literally spins around him, he may end up grabbing to the few things he sees as stable.

[GoddessIMHO]

OK, I'm a new member, it took me awhile to read through this thread but get ready for another Adolinista. I can see Adolin remaining a secondary character but please don't go all GRRM on him. I just hate that.

 

So maybe Adolin eventually gets an Honor blade and as Shallon's mate becomes her champion. She is the main character and not suited to fast fighting action but has him as her protector so that she and Pattern can work their magic during a battle.  Another possibility, Shallon works her magic and awakens his blade by drawing a new spren for it.  It just seems he would be her very dedicated knight and having her give him the emotional support he seems to need would fill out something for both of them. 

[Bort he/him]

I like the idea of Shallan drawing a new spren for him, but I doubt resurrecting his Blade like that would work.

[Lookalike]

I think Adoling will become a surgebinder, and I think the murder was necessary to trigger it. As we know "they were all broken" Adoling has to breat before he can be reforged. If not for the murder, I would say he would become a Windrunner. I don't really like the Edgedancer theory right now because he fits other orders better.

I think people are making a mistake in not considering how the orders connect. I believe the closer the orders are on the chart the more similar their ideals. We can see this with Lightweavers and Windrunner being directly across from eachother, they are opposed in their core ideal though the means may be similar. Conversly, we see Windrunner and Sky breakers right next to eachother, they both intend to uphold Hobor, but go about it in radically different ways. From this, I think we can look the relationship dynamics in Kaladin, Shallan, and Adolin. I think in order for them to remain allies Adolin Will act as a bridge between the otders. For this reason, I believe he must be an Edgedancer or Stonewarden.

Adolin is a God in the battlefield, and he often fights alone. Its possible he could become an Edgedancer, but he doesn't exibhit the same flighty personality one might expect from am edgedancer, neither is he shown to "remember" or be concerned with healing/saveing. Edgedancers do what they want, Adolin does what he must. For those reasons, I think Stonewarden fits better. Adolin is the first in the fight, and often the last one out. He doesn't give in no matter the odds, and even when down he stands back up and fights to the end. He's a leader, a trait shared by the Windrunners; he isn't afraid to deceive and do what must be done, like the lightweavers.

Before Dalinar was confirmed as a bondsmith many liked the idea of him being a Stonewarden. The Blackthorn likely would have been, so why not the Blackthorn's heir?

Some have argued Adolin is driven by love, but he has displayed resourcefulness and deoendability. He doesn't skirt from responsibility and gets things done. He's quick to adapt on the field, coming up with strategy on the fly and practicing tactics others wouldn't think of. He's a master of the sword and able to flow seamlessly between forms, yet he's not dependant on his blade he uses everything at his disposal to get the job done.

I don't think we know enough about the Dustbringers, so I'll just state it as a possibility.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Lookalike

[Kaladin al'Thor]

I am firmly in the Adolin reviving his blade and becaoming an Edgedancer camp. I was the one who saw how mischieviously Brandon looked at me when I asked him about Adolins blade!

 

I do not agree with you thinking that he fits the Stormward's better than the Edgedancer's.

 

I have been trying to write down and explain this and doing a porr job. I will leave that for Maxal who is much better than I am at putting this argument into words and since Adolin is mentioned, will definitley reply to your post. 

 

I do want to address one thing though. Why I dont think that Adolin has the stubborness needed to be a Stoneward.

 

Now, as each order was thus matched to the nature and temperament of the Herald it named patron, there was none more archetypal of this than the Stonewards, who followed after Talenelat'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of War: they thought it a point of virtue to exemplify resolve, strength, and dependability. Alas, they took less care for imprudent practice of their stubbornness, even in the face of proven error.

 

During Adolin's last duel, he started off great but was shortly overwhelmed and was trying to give the sign to forefit the duel. Does that sound like someone who "matched the nature and temperament of the Herald it named patron(Telenalat'Elin)" who took, what was it, 4500(or 3500?) years to break under torture in Damnation and bring another Desolation?

 

After many re reads I have firmly decided that Adolin fits best as an Edgedancer. Just my opinion I guess, but still..

[Lookalike]

I don't think you can take Adolin trying to concede a duel as proof against, especially since that quote seems to be describing personality. In the same duel Adolin was able to overcome overwhelming odds. Once he realized they wern't playing around his attitude changed, he cod have fought through to concede but he didnt. In that duel he displayed skill and resourcefulness also, two attributes the Stonewardens were known for.

[Shardbearer he/him]

I am strongly in favor of the Blade Revival Theory.

 

Now maxal, you've been saying that you think Adolin will need to break his bond with the Blade and reform the bond in the usual fashion to revive it.
 

My thoughts are the exact opposite.

 

How can you bond a spren that's trapped in Shardblade form? Not through the normal means, since it's locked in place and can't communicate with you (other than screaming in pain, which Adolin can't hear without a bond).

 

But gemstones allow sort of a substitute bond to form between the spren and the shardbearer.

 

Yes, Adolin already has a bond with his spren. I believe that being bonded with a Blade, by a gemstone, is part of the requirements for someone other than the original KR to revive it.

 

We also know that Intent is important in the Cosmere.

 

So Adolin will probably learn, if he hasn't already, that Shardblades are spren trapped into a form.

 

So my theory is that he will learn the Oaths of the Edgedancers, and say them with the Intent of reviving his Blade. Maybe he also needs a large source of Stormlight to fuel it. Maybe something else. But I think that the main things he needs are his bond, the Intent, and the Oaths.

 

Also maxal, You've said that Adolin was not planned for the SA. Well, I seem to remember a WoB that kinda contradicts this. I don't remember where, maybe the reddit AMA. Anyway, what I recall of that WoB is that Adolin wasn't planned for WoK, which is pretty common knowledge around here. He was added in during revisions to give voice to Dalinar's internal conflicts.

 

However, I think the quote said that Brandon did not outline the rest of SA until after WoK was mostly done, including the addition of Adolin. So Adolin was a part of the outline of SA from pretty much the beginning.

[Kaladin al'Thor]

@Lookalike

All I am saying is if you look at his actions, it is not stubbornness that fuels him like we would expect from a Stormward. In that example, he didn't stay on the fight because we was stubbornly trying to prove something out he irrationally thought he could win. He stayed in the fight to protect Renarin. Because he loves his brother.

What actions of Adolin's have ever been driven by stubbornness?

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

Everyone is focusing on the stubborn aspect of the description, but Stonewards are dependable and have resolve and dependability as well. Would someone who considers it important to be dependable really have dated every girl in the warcamps?

[maxal she/her]

I have seen my name pop quite often today in this thread.... 

 

There is one thing we should note when it comes to Adolin is, unlike our other characters, we often read him from the 3rd person's perspective. In fact, Adolin is nearly always portrayed from the eyes of both Kaladin and Dalinar. This has the bad habit of giving us a false perception of Adolin as they tend to see what they want to see.

 

Dalinar is deeply afraid his son would walk into his footsteps. An unfounded fear as the new flashback chapter we have just gotten highlighted how different the son is from the father. There was a brutality, an arrogance in younger Dalinar we are unable to see in Adolin. It struck to me, young Dalinar would have never rescued the prostitute and would have likely never locked himself up in prison for the sake of Kaladin. In fact, I am oscillating between two contradict feelings with regards to Dalinar's new chapter: on one side I am horrified and on the other side I am cheering because it confirms one of my theories which is Adolin does not resemble Dalinar. He idolizes his father, which makes him prompt to mimic older Dalinar, but deep down, he is very very different.

 

Adolin does not reveal in the Thrill of contest. He does not demand a challenge on the battle field. He does not slay people mindlessly as a bloodthirsty despot. 

 

Therefore, if we restrain ourselves to Dalinar's POV, we are getting a false reading on Adolin. I thus disagree any order associated to Dalinar would befit Adolin. There is just a kindness in Adolin we do not see in Dalinar, even in older Dalinar.

 

The same can be said about Kaladin who can't give any credit to Adolin until it is shove down his face. Adolin represents everything he loath, so he takes it out on him, calling him shallow, spoiled, arrogant, bratty... but when have we truly seen Adolin behave in such way? Not often and never without cause, except when he teases Kaladin, but I tend to put that as a separated issue.

 

Bottom line is most of the common perceptions on Adolin are not accurate. What are they? He is brave, foolhardy, stubborn, shallow... 

 

Is he? 

 

In a way, but to restrict ourselves to these superficial readings is to miss the core of who Adolin is. 

 

Who is Adolin then? Someone who's quite the social butterfly, who projects an air of over-confidence with a touch of arrogance, who appears completely uninterested in anything remotely intellectual , who's mouthy and likes to retorts, who does not look as if he can settle down, who's a womanizer in series... who has admitted within his own POV how badly his "comrades" know him, who does not let people inside his inner guard easily, who contents himself in letting others see what they expect, impetuous fopish Adolin, who is indeed protecting his most vulnerable part: his heart. 

 

Adolin, as a character, rides on his emotions. Each time he is faced with an unexpected challenge, he reacts by an emotion before he allows himself to rationally think it through, providing he can. The Szeth encounter showed us how riled up he can get when unsettled. Therefore, just as most extroverted feelers, Adolin intuitively shields himself from emotion that could hurt him such as love and friendship. He may be a badass on the battlefield, but he is vulnerable on the inside, which means he won't purposefully put himself on unfriendly ground. He won't actively seek adventure, novelty. He won't divert the battle into an unplanned one unless he is forced to or unless he feels he can control it. He thus won't decide, on a spree, to defend the one impossible spot and stick to it until death as a Stoneward would. 

 

He won't. It is unexpected, it is dangerous and worst, it would endanger the life of his men. What is Adolin's favorite battle tactic? The one where he jumps in front on his army, carving a secure path for his men to walk through. Also, despite being young, Adolin does not want to use human carried bridges, even if they provide a battle advantage, as they cost too highly in terms of human life. After reading Dalinar's excerpt, I somehow doubt young Dalinar would care as much about his men. He regards them in contempt unless they are able to keep up with him. He does not care about their family and thinks to use them as leverage to force their men to surrender, now let's try to imagine Adolin using the same tactic. He won't.

 

Why? Because he cares too much about people's life. However, if he is stuck in a bad spot, forced to defend himself, he will give it all he's got. He won't give up, but he won't seek to be in this position. Adolin likes stability, his family and to be close to them. He LIKES when Navani mothers him. He WANTS to be close to Renarin and he YEARNS to get to know his father better. 

 

It was not stubbornness and a refusal to give up that made him keep on fighting in the duel, but love and fear for his brother. It was not stubbornness that forced him to fight as hard as he did at the Tower, but circumstances and fear for his father as he extended himself beyond his own limit to give Dalinar an advantage. At the end of the fight, he was the most exhausted, unable to recollect his memories. It was not stubbornness that made him fight Szeth at the Plateau, but a desire to protect the father he loves. It was not a refusal to give up that made him strike Szeth after Dalinar was launched to his death, but pain and love as his eyes were teary. 

 

Adolin does not act because he is stubborn, but because he loves. He cares, because, you know, someone has to.

[Kaladin al'Thor]

I don't think you can take Adolin trying to concede a duel as proof against, especially since that quote seems to be describing personality. In the same duel Adolin was able to overcome overwhelming odds. Once he realized they wern't playing around his attitude changed, he cod have fought through to concede but he didnt. In that duel he displayed skill and resourcefulness also, two attributes the Stonewardens were known for.

 All I am saying is if you look at his actions, it is not stubborness that fuels him like I would expect from a Stoneward. In that example, he didnt stay in the fight because he was stubbornly trying to prove something or he irashionably thought he could win. He stayed in the fight to protect Renarin. Because he loves his brother.

 

What actions of Adolin's are driven by stubborness?

 

Edit - double post from hours ago somehow....

Edited October 23, 2015 by Kaladin al'Thor

[GoddessIMHO]

I have been thinking about how Adolin is a favored forum character but wasn't initially supposed to play a big role in the books. I remember reading something in this forum saying there was a WoB where he stated that once the story was being written the characters and the story took over and developed on their own. 

 

I wonder if maybe some of his appeal is that many of us may relate to a kid that was always trying to do the right thing and please his parents: Get the good grades, go to a good school, make something of yourself.

 

And now after doing all that, Adolin finds himself alone with his world falling down around him.

[maxal she/her]

I have been thinking about how Adolin is a favored forum character but wasn't initially supposed to play a big role in the books. I remember reading something in this forum saying there was a WoB where he stated that once the story was being written the characters and the story took over and developed on their own. 

 

I wonder if maybe some of his appeal is that many of us may relate to a kid that was always trying to do the right thing and please his parents: Get the good grades, go to a good school, make something of yourself.

 

And now after doing all that, Adolin finds himself alone with his world falling down around him.

 

I can't say about other people, but I can say he is my favorite character. There is indeed a WoB where Brandon said something along the lines where his characters have a will of their own and he wants to allow them room to grow. It is true Adolin was not a planned character and it is true he has outgrow his initial "role", which by all account was not huge: death early on in WoK. As to what it means for his future, I cannot say, but I have sure ranted enough about it.

 

I can't say why other people like Adolin, but I can say about myself.

 

I started loving Adolin in chapter 25 when he realized how feeble his relationships were. Adolin is the social butterfly, the outgoing person who talks to everyone and yet fails at developing friendships. This I can relate to as I have lived through the same ordeal. I too talk a lot, is friendly enough and yet utterly fails at making friends. Adolin also claims how little people actually know him as despite his friendliness, he does not open up about things that matters. I too have felt the same as I have often refused to share my interests or my tastes by fear other people would take them, laugh at them and turn them against me which alternatively would have hurt me. I never had any quarrel in stating I disagreed, but stating I agreed? Or I love? No. These are taboo, because these matters. The less of those things I let others know, the least chances I had it would be used as a weapon against me. That was me, all those years ago, and while I can't say if Adolin had the same line of thoughts but it sure is similar enough for me to empathize.

 

I was also that child: the successful one in a family with a disabled sibling. That child who has been labeled as strong, healthy and prone to success in front of a sibling who struggled at everything, so yes I do identify myself a lot with Adolin. I can't say either if he lived through it the same way I did. I suspect he did not (he was the older sibling, which do help), but I am affected by the thought what he lived through is not considered important, nor worthy to be talked about as my whole life I have been told the same. How can you even think of complaining? You had it easy........... but... not but. You can't. You can't have mixed emotions over your own sibling nor can you even say anything negative about it. You just can't, so yeah, I dig into Adolin and I am saddened he is not important enough for Stormlight Archive because, just because. 

 

Overall, I like Adolin because his hardships are similar to those I lived through. His preoccupations resonate those I once had. He doubt where I would have doubt. He is angry when I would be angry and he does stand up when ultimately I may have stand up as well. 

 

So yeah, I love Adolin, but he isn't a hero. He isn't troubled enough so whatever he accomplished is considered less because the adversity he faced did not have a worthy acclaimed name. And that, I do relate to.

 

As for his future, well, that is widely interesting. After WoR, he became a wildcard which we are completely unable to predict. What will happen to him? His world is indeed falling around him and it makes me hurt just to think of how that must feel. For someone who desires stability above all, who hates drastic changes, to be forced to watch his own world shift while he was left behind? Everything that defined him, that made him proud will suddenly disappear without being replaced by anything else? Of course, it will never compare the the hardships of all of our Radiants, but it still hits a very sensitive cord in me, which is why I want more Adolin.