LG113: Day 1: Freedom of Speech

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

Just now, Illwei said:

I wouldn't publicly announce loyalty. Direction will be shown during the deposition tonight. 

Yeah okay, I don't have much experience 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

40 minutes ago, Illwei said:

@Hoid Slayer

If you're trying to throw an RP to me then I'm sorry but I'm not quite capable of RPing with other people. Not really comfortable with trying to understand the parameters or what other people are trying to throw my way. 

That's alright

Tshanin stood and smiled awkwardly as the councilor gave him a weird look, and then walked away without a word. Wonderful. Great start to the day.

He looked around a bit, before finally settling on a councilor who had been getting a lot of attention. He strolled over to Fickle, set on making this interaction at least a little bit better.

[Illwei]

I also don't particularly want the deposition, but anyone can trigger it. If TUC is going to then we will find out. 

Personally I don't want people knowing my loyalty. I dont. I really don't wanna end up getting converted please please don't do it i am begging

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I also don't particularly want the deposition, but anyone can trigger it. If TUC is going to then we will find out. 

Personally I don't want people knowing my loyalty. I dont. I really don't wanna end up getting converted please please don't do it i am begging

Unlike poor Illwei, I do want to be converted

Elims, you heard it here

 

[Mint11 she/her]

okay I'm going to have to go OOC to clarify a few things

my main issue with voting to depose is that forcing people to take certain actions is less fun, and I find it off-putting. I wouldn't go as far to say that it stops the village from doing anything productive. I need to actually review all the roles again to see the different abilities for positive and negative loyalty, but just remembering my instincts on the first read through, I disagree that lowering loyalty is inherently anti-village. it depends on the context of the game in the moment

based on TUC's own logic, we are not at risk of the elims winning if a vote is called now, so it honestly seems to me that neutral loyalty would benefit players with some roles right now because it gives them flexibility and an easy way to switch

but I wouldn't want to tell players how to use their abilities. I might make suggestions or find things suspicious depending on what else is going on. but I dislike forcing people's hand

tbf I don't think this opinion matters too much bc it sounds like its going to happen tonight regardless

now that I'm thinking on it, I don't see how this gives us much information either. knowimg everyone's loyalty at this point in the game doesn't tell us anything about the actions people took. we don't know where anyone started, and the loyalty could increase or decrease for so many reasons on C1

if a villager needs a loyalty boost, we're way better off with them saying so in thread than we are with giving elims a view of the whole playing field

2 hours ago, Mystfall said:

I think Mint

I am suspicious of the fact that I have 4 votes already, and I don’t like this, especially considering what Wahr said immediately afterwards. If the reasoning is that I would go for Mavset, then Hoid falls under the same category, and you’ve said nothing about him. If it’s that you don’t like that I suggested the absence of a conversion, the conversion is role-dependent, if the person with the role dies before they convert anyone then there isn’t a conversion. Balancing that IMO is rather delicate considering one exe would essentially take out 2 of the Elims in one go(more if you consider how 1 conversion = 2 NKs)

its not that I suspect you of having the conversion role. its a combination of floating the idea that a conversion role doesn't exist and being more likely to have honed in on it earlier. mostly a feeling thats a bit off

IMO its too early to worry about trains or to analyze trains. the day turn is 48 hours

 

have not read through the last page in detail, will do that when I have time later

3 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Elims, you heard it here

 

this is a great way of convincing the elims not to convert you

[Asriel He/Him]

Hoid does bring up a good point, which is that information we put out publicly will give the Elims at least as much of an advantage as it gives us.
I think we should note this applies to the deposition vote: IE if we’re worried about elims learning loyalty (and thus who to target), then a deposition vote should be a no. 
I’ve come to the conclusion that a a motion to despose is too risky. The cons outweigh the pros. In fact I think we should just say no one from the village should move for a deposition and anyone who does would most likely be an Elim in that case and should be executed (or attacked by the Highguards).
If we agree to this, it essentially makes the easier way for the Elims to win much more risky to them. That’s more important to me right now than knowing everyone’s loyalty.

[Mint11 she/her]

edit: last page meaning page 5... yall posted too fast

edit2: my point has been emphasized, this was supposed to merge with my last post

Edited 20 hours ago by Mint11

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mint11 said:

edit: last page meaning page 5... yall posted too fast

edit2: my point has been emphasized, this was supposed to merge with my last post

Fr

1 minute ago, Asriel said:

Hoid does bring up a good point, which is that information we put out publicly will give the Elims at least as much of an advantage as it gives us.
I think we should note this applies to the deposition vote: IE if we’re worried about elims learning loyalty (and thus who to target), then a deposition vote should be a no. 
I’ve come to the conclusion that a a motion to despose is too risky. The cons outweigh the pros. In fact I think we should just say no one from the village should move for a deposition and anyone who does would most likely be an Elim in that case and should be executed (or attacked by the Highguards).
If we agree to this, it essentially makes the easier way for the Elims to win much more risky to them. That’s more important to me right now than knowing everyone’s loyalty.

I don’t wanna threaten people but I highly suggest TUC not pursue this course of action

3 minutes ago, Mint11 said:

if a villager needs a loyalty boost, we're way better off with them saying so in thread than we are with giving elims a view of the whole playing field

Or uhh just not that also gives the info to the elims

4 minutes ago, Mint11 said:

IMO its too early to worry about trains or to analyze trains. the day turn is 48 hours

I disagree

Well, worry maybe

But I think the more time we spend talking this stuff over the better, the joy of C1s is how much the situation can change and I feel like the last few games I played had fairly boring C1s

[Asriel He/Him]

I was referring to this post, btw

21 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I guess the reason we don't all massclaim loyalty is to not give things away to the elims, and also to not implicate our roles (like - someone uses an action that requires negative loyalty, we know they're in the pool with negative loyalty)

 

[The Unknown Character he/him]

11 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I also don't particularly want the deposition, but anyone can trigger it. If TUC is going to then we will find out. 

Personally I don't want people knowing my loyalty. I dont. I really don't wanna end up getting converted please please don't do it i am begging

This is a point

Village people who can affect loyalty should boost Illwei. Cause either they're an elim and boosting their loyalty screws their plan or they're village and boosting them keeps them village cause we don't want to deal with e!wei

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

6 minutes ago, Mint11 said:

this is a great way of convincing the elims not to convert you

You don't know that

It might work

[Cuendillar He/him]

Seriously, y'all? I mean, I did sign up for this, but still...

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Just now, The Unknown Character said:

This is a point

Village people who can affect loyalty should boost Illwei. Cause either they're an elim and boosting their loyalty screws their plan or they're village and boosting them keeps them village cause we don't want to deal with e!wei

That's true Illwei just lowkey claimed to us

Unless there's mind games involved here

Also, side note

1 minute ago, The Unknown Character said:

e!wei

Is this another of your puns?

Just now, Cuendillar said:

Seriously, y'all? I mean, I did sign up for this, but still...

Ha

Ha

Ha

Actually hot dang

That's crazy I've only been PMed by like four people

Didn't do any PMs myself this game, I don't know why just didn't really feel like it

[Wahrheitswächter He/Him]

3 hours ago, Ascended Grubberfly said:

“shhhh! If you out my old age, no one will see me as the cunning youth wise beyond his years!”

Dvalk nodded grimly as Ralm finished his statement. “Choose humanity, or choose business. Or is humanity siding with the singers?”

Dvalk was not trained in the ways of the court. He watched others throw accusations and deflections as if they didn’t have to think. Too much for an ol— young untrained soul like him.

"Of course, a youth wise beyond his years, thats what you are. I think the choice is between business and Loyalty. A nasty choice if you ask me, I feels inherently wrong to join Odium, but what will Thaylenah be, when there nearly no friendly harbors for us to sail to."

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

7 minutes ago, Cuendillar said:

Seriously, y'all? I mean, I did sign up for this, but still...

Oh yeah, should have warned you. If there's open PM's you need to change your notification settings. There's a reason I often have restrictions on PMs.

Mostly goodjob on redacting the info, but some info can still be gleaned from the length of the redacted name and the amount of messages in the email.

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

3 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

"Of course, a youth wise beyond his years, thats what you are. I think the choice is between business and Loyalty. A nasty choice if you ask me, I feels inherently wrong to join Odium, but what will Thaylenah be, when there nearly no friendly harbors for us to sail to."

Tshanin was on his way to Fickle when he recognized Dvalk's voice, and following it, heard the final snippets of the conversation. He opened his mouth, considered for a moment, and then stepped in.

"Excuse me," he said. He stretched out an open hand to the stranger. "I'm Tshanin, Vitiv's successor. I couldn't help but notice your discussion. Would you truly consider willingly giving up our freedom - our most valuable treasure, our lifeblood - for fear of uncertain waters ahead?" He tried not to let slip what he truly thought of the idea - cowardice - hiding it behind a smile that tried to say he was half-joking.

Just now, Jo and the Bush said:

Oh yeah, should have warned you. If there's open PM's you need to change your notification settings. There's a reason I often have restrictions on PMs.

Mostly goodjob on redacting the info, but some info can still be gleaned from the length of the redacted name and the amount of messages in the email.

Yes

Like the fact that Wahr is more popular than me for some reason

[Mat he/him]

Hey sorry for being MIA (except in PMs) but I'm here now and I'll be here for a few hours

4 hours ago, Asriel said:

@Illwei Both Hoid and Mystfall said pregame they wanted to be Elims. Is it such a stretch to assume that if given the chance they would skew the odds to shoot for the mavset-im role?

Edit: A role that is guaranteed to be an Elim?

It's a very shaky idea to base a vote off of something like this. I think it was clarified by Joe, don't remember, but I highly doubt he'd just get to choose his own alignment like that.

4 hours ago, Mystfall said:

Oh I did.

Didnt work out though

fwiw this is NAI leaning villager for me

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

I do think that TUC is a Villager here. 

I would like to see @Mat's thoughts on Myst before I say mine myself. 

Agreed on TUC. I dunno how I feel about the depo (instinctively I'm against it but I echo all the people who said w/e cause it's gonna happen anyway)

Thoughts have changed, but initially it was a combination of his weird distro thoughts (trying to discredit the idea of Mavest-im existing, overshooting likely elim numbers) with performy vibes (telling the highguards to be careful very publicly, etc) but tbh I wanted to see how he'd react to the vote (I didn't know he had just been C1d, if that means anything) and I think it's quite interesting a train built up behind me that quickly. If I had to say I think that his reaction was more green than red.

3 hours ago, Ascended Grubberfly said:

Illwei 

Can you explain this please?

3 hours ago, Mystfall said:

Will admit that I am concerned that it’s been 14 hours and there’s already 4 votes on me alone. 

Mystfall

3 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I highly recommend all villagers with negative loyalty simply spend their actions to increase it until it is resolved. I don’t think further incentivizing is really needed. Village wants to stop all possible Depositions. This is the way. That ought to be enough incentive, I think

The other thing is we could all see if we can agree to unanimously increase loyalty this cycle

C1 actions, to be honest, rarely do much, and if we’re ever gonna do this now is the time with the least risk

Agreed, though I think suggesting that everyone do it is futile. It might be a logically sound idea but there's always gonna be that one guy who doesn't.

3 hours ago, Ascended Grubberfly said:

Why do you say Whimsy and Asriel are village?

Their only action is voting Myst. If Myst flips elim I would agree that Asriel is village, but Whimsy doesn't sound cleared just yet.

Myst being elim wouldn't clear anyone that fast, especially C1. It's prime territory for distancing.

----

Reads:
V: Wahr, TUC, Asriel
E: Mist, Ink, Twin

I don't hate the Mist train but I'll vote Ink for the sake of a second option. I don't love how they started the cycle by sorta just answering generic rule questions and then immediately hopped on the e!Myst idea. And I think that the people pushing e!TUC are just trying to go for an easy option.

@Archer based for only posting vote counts but any other thoughts you'd like to share?

Edited 19 hours ago by Mat

[TwinStorm He/Him]

25 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Unlike poor Illwei, I do want to be converted

Elims, you heard it here

 

welp now we know who to vote out C3  : P

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

3 minutes ago, Mat said:

(except in PMs)

(Not mine for some reason)

 

1 minute ago, TwinStorm said:

welp now we know who to vote out C3  : P

I dare you to try

[TwinStorm He/Him]

8 minutes ago, Mat said:

Hey sorry for being MIA (except in PMs) but I'm here now and I'll be here for a few hours

It's a very shaky idea to base a vote off of something like this. I think it was clarified by Joe, don't remember, but I highly doubt he'd just get to choose his own alignment like that.

fwiw this is NAI leaning villager for me

Agreed on TUC. I dunno how I feel about the depo (instinctively I'm against it but I echo all the people who said w/e cause it's gonna happen anyway)

Thoughts have changed, but initially it was a combination of his weird distro thoughts (trying to discredit the idea of Mavest-im existing, overshooting likely elim numbers) with performy vibes (telling the highguards to be careful very publicly, etc) but tbh I wanted to see how he'd react to the vote (I didn't know he had just been C1d, if that means anything) and I think it's quite interesting a train built up behind me that quickly. If I had to say I think that his reaction was more green than red.

Can you explain this please?

Mystfall

Agreed, though I think suggesting that everyone do it is futile. It might be a logically sound idea but there's always gonna be that one guy who doesn't.

Myst being elim wouldn't clear anyone that fast, especially C1. It's prime territory for distancing.

----

Reads:
V: Wahr, TUC, Asriel
E: Mist, Ink, Twin

I don't hate the Mist train but I'll vote Ink for the sake of a second option. I don't love how they started the cycle by sorta just answering generic rule questions and then immediately hopped on the e!Myst idea. And I think that the people pushing e!TUC are just trying to go for an easy option.

@Archer based for only posting vote counts but any other thoughts you'd like to share?

I think I missed smth here, why do you think I'm elim?

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, TwinStorm said:

I think I missed smth here, why do you think I'm elim?

You didn't miss anything, I didn't explain it

 

[KeyFox]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

You didn't miss anything, I didn't explain it

 

why then?

Also, hi, I'm here now

 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

You didn't miss anything, I didn't explain it

 

Aura

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

You didn't miss anything, I didn't explain it

 

care to explain then?

Just now, Hoid Slayer said:

Aura

yeah lwk tuff

[Mat he/him]

Alright fine (I was already writing this before you guys asked lol):

• First two posts of the cycle give me elim-trying-to-look-active-and-good vibes
• In general I think that trying to attribute certain roles to the elim team doesn't work and can get dangerous, so I'd give slight negative points there. It's a good way to do analysis that doesn't actually help, but looks impressive.
• Lightly supported e!Myst to me in PMs in a very noncommittal sort of way (like, no sign of that in the thread)

Basically just C1 vibes and I didn't even vote you so idk why it got such a strong reaction.

Also, should I call you Twin or Storm?

6 minutes ago, KeyFox said:

why then?

Also, hi, I'm here now

TwinStorm/KeyFox e/e, the game is solved (kidding)

Hi

What are your thoughts on the game?