Isles of the Emberdark Full Reactions

[Chaos he/him]

Post your Isles of the Emberdark reactions here! Contains full book spoilers.

[Argenti he/him]

So far... it's left me with more questions than answers

page 210/495

[Mason Wheeler]

Haven't finished it yet, but... apparently one of the leaders of the Arcanists at Silverlight is named Argent.

[Pagerunner he/him]

All right, finished it up and I'm not unreasonably tired because they didn't release this at midnight, so I can post something right away.

As far as a story, I've gotta say I didn't like it. Part 1 was almost painful to read; so many times, a new short scene would have a hook into a flashback, and then the next scene after the flashback would open with rehashing what we learned in that same flashback. Very repetitious, and it felt like the outline showing through a lot. Dusk's scenes in Part 2 were also rough; a lot of talking to himself, and a very Martian-esque sequence of surviving... without any of the tension or emotion of the Martian. I kinda feel this would have worked a lot better with a lot fewer Dusk viewpoints throughout the book. Give me two or three really tightly plotted scenes that serve a lot of function to get him from where we left him to the island with everybody else, rather than a very wordy blow-by-blow.

And then Starling's arc was okay, but it really had nothing to do with Dusk's arc. Yeah, they had the same villain at the end, and they each had one interaction helping each other's climax (Starling causing chaos for Dusk to cross the moat, Dusk obviously taking out the gunship), but neither of them were really complementing each other's stories throughout Part 3. She'd go along for a ride in the passage, and then go back to her regularly scheduled activities with her plucky band of misfits. And he's doing the edgy loner RPG character bit. Which are both executed okay; but why did they have to be in the same book?

I did whiff on the ending. I thought the island would hold a perpendicularity to Second or Third of the Sun with an advanced non-spacefaring nation that could help them against the cosmere powers-that-be. The narrative continually reinforcing from Dusk's POV that he knew there wasn't a perpendicularity, a line or two about how the Cognitive and Physical Realm weren't quite lined up, some of the lines about the ancestors being protected or led (or something like that) by the snake... But nope. I guess they'll get some visits in the Physical Realm very soon.

The ending with the power of perception controlling the Invested entity finally explains what Brandon had on his mind when he whiffed on this WoB from the most recent Nexus. I was kinda thinking we'd see something like that Soon.

Quote

Questioner

Space age question for you. Generational ships. What would it take for something like that to emerge in the Cognitive Realm? And would it look like its planet of origin?

Brandon Sanderson

A generational ship just manifesting on its own? Not terribly likely. There are specific circumstances you could come up with.. And you're asking, "What would it take?"

For instance, let's say there is a planetwide catastrophe. And everybody's aware it's coming for hundreds of years and focusing on a story told about some sort of ark that might save them. And that they are all believing this is a thing that did exist or could exist. Over time, if there were the right Investiture on the Cognitive Realm, you could see something like that manifest. But I don't know if it would actually work, if it would take them off world or if it would just be echoes of that represented. You'd be much more likely to find some spren-like entity that thinks of themselves of the crew of said ancient ship than the ship itself.

You'd have to have very specific circumstances, and I don't even know if it necessarily would work.

Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 5, 2024)

It's going to be a book well worth the reread for the lore, though. I didn't take a ton of detailed notes on my first pass, but we've got dragons, a Dawnshard, Silverlight (where are the other two places the Nexus goes?), lodestars, Grand Apparatus, Nalthis subastral, Harmony as the only living Shard who has performed the--, a hint that Dominion and Virtuosity have un-Splintered, the golden Investiture of Cakoban... lots of stuff to dig into. There are a couple things that don't quite add up to me, though, with stuff from Arcanum Unbounded:

• Location, location, location. I got the impression that First of the Sun was close to the Grand Knell (shoutout to the Lost Tales cards; I was pretty sure that was gonna come up in Emberdark). But Threnody and First of the Sun are on opposite ends of the star chart. Was this one of the Nephilim just way far afield when it happened? I think I remember a line or two about how they had spread out through uninhabited regions of Shadesmar, but I also thought they were centered around the Knell. Or, since the star chart is a 2D drawing of a 3D reality, are they actually closer together? (Like, they're the closest to the reader, and everything else is spread out behind them?) This is also kind of related to Roshar and Scadrial being so close, even though they're at war, and there was definitely talk of First of the Sun being between them. So we really need an interactive 3D star chart... maybe once Brandon's done with his medallion mechanics writeup.
• I'm also trying to understand the timing of Khriss's essay with respect to the overall Cosmere timeline. We know it was written before the events of the novella, and we get a line or two in the book about how the subastral had been found and lost a couple of times, but it really seems kind of inconsistent with how it had been presented in the essay. My reading had been "the area around the perpendicularity is extremely dangerous, and and the few expeditions sent there from Silverlight have not returned" referred to the dangers of Patji, and that expeditions had been killed after transitioning to the Physical Realm. Because it isn't dangerous in the Cognitive Realm; yeah, there are the predators that hunt on minds, but they get dismissed in the story as being pretty common, and copperclouds and other Clouding being a well-established workaround. The other two inhabited worlds in the system had also been studied from the Cognitive Realm, per the essay. So... I'm gonna keep that in mind on my eventual reread, see how well it fits, but it feels like a stretch to me. Like Silverlight, this huge hub where information is currency, just straight-up lost a planet?

So, I'm actually ranking it as the worst of all five Secret Projects due to story structure. I love me my lore, but this really feels like the story itself suffered. Space-age Cosmere MMO is what we need.

There is one last line in the book I have to disagree with hard. "It will be satisfying to see @Argent's face." No, it will not.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

I liked it, though it had some weaknesses

• the main antagonist veers off into comic book villain territory
• it obfuscates the question how Aviars reached Roshar

Otherwise, a good yarn. I would have considered it almost impossible to write a book so deeply embedded in the Space Age while revealing so little about fture events. Structurally I was reminded of Tress in the Emerald Sea, especially in the choice of protagonists coupled with the quasi-naval setting.

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

 

Quote

• I'm also trying to understand the timing of Khriss's essay with respect to the overall Cosmere timeline. We know it was written before the events of the novella, and we get a line or two in the book about how the subastral had been found and lost a couple of times, but it really seems kind of inconsistent with how it had been presented in the essay. My reading had been "the area around the perpendicularity is extremely dangerous, and and the few expeditions sent there from Silverlight have not returned" referred to the dangers of Patji, and that expeditions had been killed after transitioning to the Physical Realm. Because it isn't dangerous in the Cognitive Realm; yeah, there are the predators that hunt on minds, but they get dismissed in the story as being pretty common, and copperclouds and other Clouding being a well-established workaround. The other two inhabited worlds in the system had also been studied from the Cognitive Realm, per the essay. So... I'm gonna keep that in mind on my eventual reread, see how well it fits, but it feels like a stretch to me. Like Silverlight, this huge hub where information is currency, just straight-up lost a planet?

There could be multiple explanations that work in world, like others finding similar maps to the Iriali one or Frost letting something slip in conversation and because of the lack of evidence being returned to Silverlight the general consensus is that no perpendicularity exists. Khriss seems the type to not necessarily hold with consensus on some matters and might still believe there is one. My assumption based on the things that don't track between the essay, early versions of the chapters and IoTED as published is that Brandon may have changed his mind on things. That and/or the changes he made to Stormlight Archive since publishing Arcanum Unbound  have effected what hes able to show us about the space age currently.

 

 

Overall I really appreciated this book. Brandon surprised me by addressing the colonial aspects of the story directly and showing the different ways that people tend to dismiss or fetishize aspects of less advanced cultures was handled better than I feared they might.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

5 minutes ago, VersatileThrenodite said:

There could be multiple explanations that work in world, like others finding similar maps to the Iriali one or Frost letting something slip in conversation and because of the lack of evidence being returned to Silverlight the general consensus is that no perpendicularity exists.

At a minimum Autonomy must know about Patji. She wouldn't sell the Ghostbloods Aviars, though.

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

At a minimum Autonomy must know about Patji. She wouldn't sell the Ghostbloods Aviars, though.

Actually I kind of disagree based on WaT the mind animating a shard doesn't always seem to have full awareness of all their investiture. Also this brings up a thought I was having during my reading: Has Brandon changed his mind on the source of investiture involved here? We have old knowledge indicating Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, but with the focus on Ambitions rogue investiture I was starting to wonder if maybe the intelligence of Patji is invested by Ambition's splinters. The green color of the pool could also indicate this is where cultivation noped off to following WaT.

[Ironeyes]

7 hours ago, VersatileThrenodite said:

Actually I kind of disagree based on WaT the mind animating a shard doesn't always seem to have full awareness of all their investiture. Also this brings up a thought I was having during my reading: Has Brandon changed his mind on the source of investiture involved here? We have old knowledge indicating Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, but with the focus on Ambitions rogue investiture I was starting to wonder if maybe the intelligence of Patji is invested by Ambition's splinters. The green color of the pool could also indicate this is where cultivation noped off to following WaT.

Patji's attitude toward his worshippers matches too closely to Autonomy's characterization in Lost Metal to be a coincidence though. Moreover, the dream flashback shows that the shardpool predates the imprisonment of the Ambition splinter that became the Dakwara. 

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

4 hours ago, Ironeyes said:

Patji's attitude toward his worshippers matches too closely to Autonomy's characterization in Lost Metal to be a coincidence though. Moreover, the dream flashback shows that the shardpool predates the imprisonment of the Ambition splinter that became the Dakwara. 

I agree that its probably most likely that Patji is still an avatar of Autonomy. But I just thought it was worth entertaining the thought experiment. Also just because the splinter of Ambition that became the Dakwara came following Cakoban doesn't mean another splinter couldn't have already made it to 1st of the Sun. Also given Autonomies usage/corruption of local investiture systems I don't want to rule out Bavadin "unmaking" a splinter of ambition to form the avatar that became Patji.

[earthexile]

I will get my thoughts in order over time, but one of my favorite things about this story is the radically different context it puts Autonomy into. When we experienced that force in the Mistborn series, it manifested as this gross fascist power structure. But from the standpoint of First of the Sun, Autonomy means "This is our planet and these are our birds and you can't just take from us." And that's pretty cool.

I can see this world becoming fabulously wealthy and influential, while also completely preserving the natural world and oceans, and it's very cool to imagine. They could build the majority of their trade infrastructure out of imported materials on the Shadesmar side, and make the Physical side into magical hyper-resorts for the richest people in the galaxy. Only instead of being colony stuff like in our world, it'll be the Eelakin cashing the checks.

[Argent he/him]

On 7/1/2025 at 9:56 PM, Pagerunner said:

There is one last line in the book I have to disagree with hard. "It will be satisfying to see @Argent's face." No, it will not.

Well, it was for Ed!

[Mason Wheeler]

On 7/1/2025 at 8:56 PM, Pagerunner said:

It's going to be a book well worth the reread for the lore, though. I didn't take a ton of detailed notes on my first pass, but we've got dragons, a Dawnshard, Silverlight (where are the other two places the Nexus goes?), lodestars, Grand Apparatus, Nalthis subastral, Harmony as the only living Shard who has performed the--, a hint that Dominion and Virtuosity have un-Splintered, the golden Investiture of Cakoban... lots of stuff to dig into.

Don't forget the mention of people from Vax who are a whole new race, not human or ShoDel.

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

3 hours ago, Argent said:

On 7/1/2025 at 9:56 PM, Pagerunner said:

There is one last line in the book I have to disagree with hard. "It will be satisfying to see @Argent's face." No, it will not.

Well, it was for Ed!

What sort of Arcanistry do you think the Silverlight Argent gets up to?

[Hoids4thApprentice he/him]

On 7/2/2025 at 3:56 AM, Pagerunner said:

So, I'm actually ranking it as the worst of all five Secret Projects due to story structure. I love me my lore, but this really feels like the story itself suffered.

Just finished it this afternoon. I found it to be a more engaging read than either Frugal Wizard or Yumi and the Nightmare Painter. For me, it is up there with Tress of the Emerald Sea and The Sunlit Man as one of my favourite secret projects.

I may be biased because I really liked the original novella and the few chapters of the sequel that Brandon read out years ago. I think the novel really delivered on the promise of that reading.

I initially worried that Dusk and Starlings Story were only going to intertwine in a clunky way and the beginning of Part 3 reinforced that worry. However, as it progressed, I personally think that Starling and Dusk's emotional story arcs aligned well even if the story kept their narrative plots fairly separate in parts 3 and 4. For me, it really did create a very satisfying ending when Dusk decided to join the crew of the Dynamic at the end.

 

[alder24]

Well, I must admit that this is not the greatest of Brandon’s secret novels. It was enjoyable, the story, setting and characters were fine, but that’s it. Just fine. Not as engaging as other secret projects. The loredump was the best part of the book so far as so many things were revealed - dragons, Silverlight, the Evil, lots of tech, new planets and so on. 

While the story of Starling and Dusk on their own stood well, I like them, but together they never really clicked for me. It seems disjointed. Sure, in the second half of the book they had a common enemy and interest in Drominad’s perpendicularity, but Starling was focused on her crew, while Dusk was focused on the cave and they barely worked together. It felt like those two were just separate stories stitched together in one book. I wish they’d interacted more and planned an escape together (Chrysalis could have let them talk to each other after all).

The villain was bad. I’m very disappointed in Dajer. He was a caricature of a villain, stupid with Dusk, yet smart with Starling. A space fascist, but at the same time being investigated by his own military for incompetence, disobedience and breaking laws. I could not take him seriously at all. Brandon can do better villains. What even was the point of introducing Malwish secret police at the very end if they did nothing in the story? It was a waste, it would be better to use them to actually imprison Dajer and introduce a real and threatening villain in the last part. Dajer just didn’t work, he was a joke trying to pass a serious threat. 

I still like the book, it was a nice and relaxing read. Starling was a nice character, her relations with Frost, Hoid and Xisis were fun to read about, her crew was good, but not as developed as the crew of Crow's Song from Tress. Those interactions were lacking. I wish there were more of them as they were too much in the background, while Starling was busy with Dajer. Dusk was also enjoyable, seeing how the First of the Sun changed in those years was both heartbreaking and interesting. Patji didn’t deserve this fate, at least leave a nature reserve on the island, but that’s just a step towards progress Dusk’s people had to make to survive. 

It's impressive how much can be revealed and teased about the future of Cosmere without actually spoiling other books. There are still some things that can tell us a bit about what’s going to happen. Malwish are dominant on Scadrial and they hold a firm grip on the vast section of Cosmere and Shadesmar, they seem to win the cold war in Era 3 and have the power to rival Roshar, there is a lot of going on with Shard’s involvement in human affairs, it’s definitely a complicated politics, Harmony did something unique, Autonomy is still alive (as Patji is still fine, but I wonder what would happen to Avatars during a death of Shard’s Vessel and a merger), Invention created multiple planets, the Grand Apparatus was made before the Shattering and it’s ruled by Sleepless, who are quite aggressive and enslave others (that’s why Masaka run away), Threnody was destroyed by the Evil (which was hinted at in TSM), dragons on Yolen have a Dawnshard and the most shocking of them all - Hoid got married. What kind of a crazy person would marry Hoid? Although she decided to leave him and forgot about him, so not so crazy after all. And she’s a twin, do we know of any twins in Cosmere? There is a lot to unpack here, this book will be worth rereading, so that’s why I think the lore is the best part of the book. 

I love all scenes with the Evil, Such an interesting and awesome entity. A being made entirely out of anti-investiture, capable of destroying anything. Can it run out of it eventually or can it be replenished somehow. Was Ambition's investiture almost fully converted into anti-investiture during her death by Odium and that’s why nobody can Ascend to it per WoB? How much does it think, it’s stupidly invested and does want others to suffer so it seems to be somewhat sentient.  

Is Argent a traitor? Does he work for Malwish in secret? There was an arcanist who gave Dajer a tip about the map, so was that you Argent? It can’t be Huio! 

[JPGU]

I really really loved this book, is a mixture of what i loved in Tress and what i loved in Sunlit Man. It make Dusk go from a character i didn't really care to be one of my favorites. And i freakin loved Dajer as the antagonist, is one of the best villains brandon written because he is really really smart but at the same time too confident in himself, he see Starling as a threat so he is always one step ahead of her and he see Dusk as an idiot caveman so he doesn't see what he is capable of doing. Hands down probably the best of the secret projects i really am hyped to see the Dynamic crew in the future

[lacrossedeamon]

Generally liked the novel. Some of the dialogue felt a bit forced and few paragraphs didn't segue that well but otherwise a good read from a readability slant. I miss the original dynamic from the 2020 reading where Dusk did not know about Tenth the Finder. It felt perfectly in line with his character but I understand why it needed to change for this story. Not sure all the changes were smoothed out. There is some question now on the status of the mainland. One thing I wish didn't get glossed over was the surviving Scadrians. It's just mentioned in the epilogue that Xisis sent a ship to get them but I wish we had further interactions, maybe with Saja or some form of closure for Leonore.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

17 hours ago, alder24 said:

While the story of Starling and Dusk on their own stood well, I like them, but together they never really clicked for me. It seems disjointed. Sure, in the second half of the book they had a common enemy and interest in Drominad’s perpendicularity, but Starling was focused on her crew, while Dusk was focused on the cave and they barely worked together. It felt like those two were just separate stories stitched together in one book. I wish they’d interacted more and planned an escape together (Chrysalis could have let them talk to each other after all).

While that is true, why would them working together make the book necessarily better? I mean we are talking about a protagonist not necessarily known for extreme social skills.

17 hours ago, alder24 said:

The villain was bad. I’m very disappointed in Dajer. He was a caricature of a villain, stupid with Dusk, yet smart with Starling. A space fascist, but at the same time being investigated by his own military for incompetence, disobedience and breaking laws. I could not take him seriously at all. Brandon can do better villains. What even was the point of introducing Malwish secret police at the very end if they did nothing in the story? It was a waste, it would be better to use them to actually imprison Dajer and introduce a real and threatening villain in the last part. Dajer just didn’t work, he was a joke trying to pass a serious threat. 

I think introducing the secret police was an attempt to salvage letting a fool run a base. It makes plausible, but does not really show, that on the Malwish side somebody is running a power play by giving an incompetent member of a rival faction ample rope to hang himself.

But yes, Dajer came pretty close to ruining the book.

[Hoids4thApprentice he/him]

22 hours ago, alder24 said:

Is Argent a traitor? Does he work for Malwish in secret? There was an arcanist who gave Dajer a tip about the map, so was that you Argent? It can’t be Huio! 

I love that Brandon gave Argent a cameo and then trolled him by leaving it open that he might be a traitor.

[Koloss17 She/They]

Overall I *really* liked this story. I really liked the mix of sci-fi and (I believe Polynesian) mythology, and I really appreciate Sanderson’s rendition of Moana. Dusk’s character arc was awesome, and I love the idea of finding a purpose in a world that is advancing beyond your skills. I also like how that mirrored starling and chrysalis’ predicaments, where this is showing that space age Cosmere is where technology advances past even gods. This story felt like a mythological journey that we’ve never yet seen in Sanderson’s work, and I think he did it wonderfully.

I really liked the fact that the Dakwara was shaped by people’s cognitive perceptions of it, which makes perfect sense, but is frankly really poetic. As a big Greek myth fan, and a Percy Jackson reader, the idea that gods are shaped by the people who worship them feels really fitting. I also like that it showed how even “primitive” peoples had the ability to shape the Cosmere in significant ways, and that it is effort, not place in the world, that can determine success.

I also found the idea of the space age superpowers fascinating, but also deeply depressing. Like one of the things I often do when reading is imagining what it would be like living in such a world, and in most other Sanderson works, I could see the silver lining, but this particular part of the Cosmere timeline seems like a terrible time to live in. Which is a neat concept, but is also kinda sad.

I think dusk’s story was stronger than Starling’s, though I did like the fact that this painted Hoid in a good light. He might be a bit of an asshole at times, but he at least strives for kindness. And that (for the most part) lines up with what we see of him. He’s a problem child, but a caring problem child. I also really liked the fact that Starling willingly imprisoned herself, and that given the chance to free herself, she chose to keep herself trapped in order to save the ones she loved. That’s honestly a really nice tale, and while the message is a bit on the nose, it felt appropriate for the story.

overall great book. Were there weaknesses? Yes, of course. However, the feel, the message, and the worldbuilding was just the right flavor for me, and that’s what counts. I loved this style of Sanderson, and am glad he branched out from his standard fantasy style into a more mythological approach.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

7 hours ago, Hoids4thApprentice said:

I love that Brandon gave Argent a cameo and then trolled him by leaving it open that he might be a traitor.

Count the bells in his beard. They'll tell you which Shard he is working for.

[Hoids4thApprentice he/him]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Count the bells in his beard. They'll tell you which Shard he is working for.

OMG Argent is a multiple double agent! He signals the Shards to tell them which one he is now willing to work for every time a bell 'accidentally' drops off during shardcast!

[+Oltux72 he/him]

11 minutes ago, Hoids4thApprentice said:

OMG Argent is a multiple double agent! He signals the Shards to tell them which one he is now willing to work for every time a bell 'accidentally' drops off during shardcast!

Exactly. Though you are still not suspicious enough. We are looking for a spy for a southern continent ...

Though they are obviously all spies. Where do you think Huio's cousins live? Obviously he is working for Sja-Anat.

[Mason Wheeler]

6 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I also found the idea of the space age superpowers fascinating, but also deeply depressing. Like one of the things I often do when reading is imagining what it would be like living in such a world, and in most other Sanderson works, I could see the silver lining, but this particular part of the Cosmere timeline seems like a terrible time to live in. Which is a neat concept, but is also kinda sad.

That was something that really bugged me about this story.  It feels like a continuation of something very bad we saw hints of beginning in RoW and exploding onto the scene in full force in WaT: bleakness.

Virtually everything about the wider milieu of this setting sucks.  The Malwish have turned into evil imperialist overlords and conquered half the Cosmere.  The Rosharans under Odium are conquering the other half and seem to legitimately consider it generous to tax their subjects at a rate of 99% and "let them keep" the last 1%.  Nazh is dead.  Frost is missing, presumed dead.  Hoid is locked up, unable to help anyone.  Though we don't know the exact details, it's clear that the dragons exiled Starling for something involving trying to be compassionate to mortals rather than lord over them as a draconic tyrant.  The Evil overran Threnody and is now spreading anti-Investiture monsters throughout the Cosmere.  And so on...

It almost feels like Brandon is forgetting that so many of his fans read the Cosmere, and not trash like ASOIAF, because it is not trash like ASOIAF.  Bleakness and "grimdark" have no legitimate place in epic fantasy, and the Cosmere was one of the best refuges from that ugly trend.

Was.