Analysis of the dawnshards with new information

[Dofurion]

Introduction

To start off, I want to say that I've seen other users post this topic on the forum, but after seeing that this analysis was getting too long, I decided it was better to make a new post instead of just a comment on those threads.
I'm going to divide this into chapters according to how my ideas have progressed.

Chapter 1: Grouping Theory

Let's start from the basis that many in the fandom (myself included) had conjectured that the Adonalsium Shards were organized into four sets, one for each dawnshard. The existence of said sets is reinforced by the following [WoB] .
The nature of said sets and the inclusion of one or another shard would depend on what the commands manifested in the form of Shards of Dawn were.

For a long time there was a debate between several possible sets: {Change, Union, Fission, Remained}, {Change, Survive, Union, X}, {Changed, Creation, Remained, Destruction} among other options (All of them include 'Change' because it was the only one confirmed). Well, now with the confirmation of exists as a dawnshard many of these hypothetical groups were discarded.

Now, with the addition of exists I realized that perhaps the structure of the dawnshards is more similar to those of the awakening than we think. exists is a start command, while change is a modifier. Therefore I propose that the dawnshard different from the others is specifically exists, and the others are modifier commands.
Also, with this revelation it is much easier to classify the shards.

First, remember what the shards are:

1. Devotion
2. Dominion
3. Preservation
4. Ruin
5. Endowment
6. Honor
7. Odium
8. Cultivation
9. Autonomy
10. Ambition
11. Valor
12. Invention
13. Mercy
14. Whimsy
15. Virtuosity
16. Reason

Which of these fit best with exists? In theory, they should be shards whose concept is linked to existence or that are defined from it.

• Preservation I think is the clear example, its intention is based on conservation or, defining it in a different way, the continued existence of something.
• Reason is the last shard to be revealed, but I feel that it fits very well within this category. Simply because reasoning is what defines the existence of an individual, the classic "I think therefore I am."
• Autonomy defines the distinction between multiple objects, the difference between the Self and what is not Self.
• As for Mercy, it goes for the "letting something exist" part.

As for Rysn's dawnshard (change) I think that she has even more closed candidates.

• Ruin the intention of this shard forces her to bring about a continued change, in my opinion even if the cosmere reached a state of heat death, Ruin would seek to change that, either by causing the fall into a true void or something else. He will always seek to alter any state of stillness.
• Cultivation, I was reluctant to put her in this category before, but the shard's reaction to Taravangian/Odium's words implies that she does have a tendency to change.
• Invention, I think her name is more than enough of an argument, plus her actions (creating mega-structures and constantly moving) reflect a nature inclined to change.
• Virtuosity This one is weird to explain since the reason I put it here is because she is a shard whose way of acting seems like a mirror of Invention, only aimed at the artistic realm.

So we would have 2 dawnshards left unrevealed. And here I would like to make several assumptions.

1. As I stated before, the shards are a command in a very similar sense to those that someone can perform with breaths.
2. There is a set of Adonalsium shards that are related to feelings.
3. Based on the 2 previous points we could propose the hypothesis that feel is a dawnshard.

So what would they be?

• Odium is the most logical option, the extreme emotion without context.
• Devotion would enter as the calm and prolonged emotions (the shard that took the Love portfolio, according to Taravangian).
• Whimsy would fall into this category since as noted in the Devotion section, there is a shard to which Taravangian attributes the feeling of 'self-indulgence' and the shard that best fits that term is Whimsy.
• And finally Valor, which is also a bit obvious that it would fall into this category.

We have 4 left to assign:

• Honor
• Dominion
• Endowment
• Ambition

And now we see a curious pattern forming: Honor as it became clear to us in this book, is more about self-imposed limitations than personal achievement or what is right. In parallel we have Dominion which is predictably defined by restrictions and/or actions imposed on others. A perfect pair of push and pull.
As for Ambition and Endowment a similar relationship also emerges, but a little more subtle. Endowment works as the action of improving the life of someone other than yourself, while Ambition would be the desire to improve your own. It is more ethereal than the above but still noticeable.
So this missing Dawnshard, how could it be named? Well, the best option I could think of was *act* (way of acting), it's the one I'm least sure of but it's also the one I see the most relationship between the shards that it would have associated with it.
In conclusion, hypothetically we could organize the shards in the following way:

『Exists』

• Preservation
• Reason
• Mercy
• Autonomy

『Change』

• Invention
• Ruin
• Virtuosity
• Cultivation

『Feel』 (?)

• Devotion
• Whimsy
• Odium
• Valor

『Act』 (?)

• Honor
• Endowment
• Ambition
• Dominion

Chapter 2: Double Grouping Conjecture

Following on from what was proposed in Chapter 1, there is also a relatively widespread conjecture to be mentioned, which states that most shards have a "double influence from the dawnshards".
To give an example: the 4 shards associated with the change command were affected by a second round of commands, with one of them receiving the change command again, while the other 3 were affected by the commands of the remaining 3 dawnshards.
As a result, ¼ (4) of the shards were affected by a single command, while ¾ (12) were influenced by two different commands.
Now I will proceed to give my personal organization and some (own) definitions to complement it.

• 『』= Main Dawnshard
• 「」= Secondary Dawnshard

『Exists』Preservation「Exists」

Nothing more to add, except what was already said in the previous chapter. Preservation is an Intent focused on maintaining the existence of things.

『Exists』Reason「Change」

Reasoning is the basis that defines a conscious being, but at the same time the ability to rethink its points of view based on the information available is what defines reason itself.

『Exists』Mercy「Feel」

We don't know much about Mercy, we can only make assumptions based on its name. And beyond what was said in the previous chapter, I can speculate that its intention has a certain emotional component.

『Exists』Autonomy「Act」

In addition to what has already been said about Autonomy in the previous chapter, its Intent can also be defined as a way of acting.

『Change』Invention「Exists」

Making changes to make things exist.

『Change』Ruin「Change」

The same as in the previous chapter.

『Change』Virtuosity「Feel」

Making changes to generate an emotional response

『Change』Cultivation「Act」

I define it as a way of acting, which allows change in a systematic way.

『Feel』Devotion「Exists」

A feeling directed unidirectionally towards something or it could be a feeling that defines the existence of the individual who feels Devotion. Either option works.

『Feel』Whimsy「Change」

A feeling of needing change or randomness.

『Feel』Odium「Feel」

Same as the previous chapter.

『Feel』Valor「Act」

A feeling of drive to act.

『Act』Endowment「Change」

A way of acting that encourages constant change.

『Act』Ambition「Feel」

A way of acting that is influenced by a particular feeling.

『Act』Dominion「Act」*
『Act』Honor「Exist」*

I originally assigned these two to those positions arbitrarily, but after a comment from a friend who read the next chapter, it made me switch places.

Chapter 3: Mirror Symmetry

After doing all this thinking, just out of curiosity I decided to group the shards according to which dawnshars influenced them (according to this frame of thought) regardless of whether it is the "primary" or the "secondary" and that resulted in this scheme:

Mono-affected

• Preservation『Exists』
• Ruin『Change』
• Odium『Feel』
• Dominion『Act』

Bi-affected
『Exists』/『Change』

• Reason
• Invention

『Exists』/『Feel』

• Mercy
• Devotion

『Exists』/『Act』

• Autonomy
• Honor

『Feel』/『Act』

• Valor
• Ambition

『Change』/『Act』

• Cultivation
• Endowment

Now we see it forming a very curious pattern. Spontaneously, couples were formed whose intentions seem to be parallel (it almost seems like a reference to the Aeons of Gnoticism, if it weren't for the fact that Sanderson himself has said that he hasn't used that religion as inspiration[1]), except for the Honor-Autonomy pair.

By this point I was planning to publish this analysis but a friend made me realize that perhaps it would be better to exchange Honor for Dominion, he told me that Dominion and Autonomy seemed like a better pair of intentions, and while that is a subjective opinion, it also made me realize that Honor fits much better as the shard that was only affected by the act command since from what we see in WaT, Honor is not defined by honorability, but rather by oaths. These oaths can direct the way of acting in any direction (as can be seen with the oaths of the Skybreakers and the Elsecallers). Which leaves us with the following scheme:

Mono-affected

• Preservation『Exists』
• Ruin『Change』
• Odium『Feel』
• Honor『Act』

Bi-affected

『Exists』/『Change』

• Reason
• Invention

『Exists』/『Feel』

• Mercy
• Devotion

『Exists』/『Act』

• Autonomy
• Dominion

『Feel』/『Act』

• Valor
• Ambition

『Change』/『Act』

• Cultivation
• Endowment

This, as ylou may have noticed, leaves us with another curiosity. Mono-affected shards are those that have ended up merging, see {Ruin + Preservation = Harmony} and {Honor + Odium = Retribution}. Which allows me to make the following speculation. Could the trend of shard fusions that we have seen in the books not be to mix the 16 shards again, but rather a way to limit the shards that have "less context"?
At the end of it all we would not have a new Adonalsium, but a mini-Adonalsiun.

Conclusions

These would be all my conclusions for now. I know that these results can be influenced by my own points of view and although everything is internally coherent, it is necessary to remember what basis I am starting from.
I would like to read your opinions.

Note: Looking back at WoB, it turns out I confused Gnosticism and Orphism. Brandon has considered Gnosticism as an inspiration, but he hasn't considered Orphism.

Edited January 8, 2025 by Dofurion
Addition of links.

[Sophrosyne He/any]

Amazing post my Dofurion! All of the Dawnshard posts are really.

I think you may have me onboard with your groupings. I've never been big on the idea of two dawn shards effecting each shard, it felt like we were going a bridge to far seeing as we only had the 'it makes sense' argument to work from. but with the paring of shards, you demonstrated in chapter 3 I think it's abit too neat to be coincidental. and what with us knowing Bradon was very intentional when he split Ado. you have me sold.

Spoiler

Questioner

Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature.

Brandon Sanderson

So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium.

So I view this for all of them. Like, Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by. And there's this sense that that is noble, that's the honor aspect to it, but there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other direction. So a lot of them do kind of have this both-- cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural. And not all of them are gonna have a 100% balance between those two things, I would say, because there's only so many fundamental laws of the universe that I can ascribe personalities to in that way. 

So I find Honor very interesting, but I find Autonomy a very interesting one for the exact same reason. What does autonomy mean? We attach a lot to it, but what is the actual, if you get rid of the charged terms, what does it mean? And this is where you end up with things like Odium claiming "I am all emotion." Rather than-- But then there's a charged term for it that is associated with this Shard. I'm not going to tell you whether he's right or not, but he has an argument. 

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

On a different not this confirms to me that it will be a long while before we get DS 3 &4 because as soon as we have one, we can sort out the rest without too much issue.

[BobTheBuilding]

I personally feel that in the groupings, Endowment and Virtuosity should switch because Endowment means to give a gift or to simply give, which changes both the recipient and the giver, in the way of possessing something. Virtuosity means to have a skill, particularly in music or art, and those things require acting. For the double-influence of the Dawnshards on each shard, I propose Endowment to have Change then Act, while Virtuosity would have Feel then Act because for Endowment, it changes the recipient with a gift and acts to do this, while for Virtuosity, to have skill with art or music, most people are passionate about their art and then act and perform their piece of paint their art. My point about Endowment is backed up my the description Rysn gave in WaT about how her voice recognition, color recognition, and life sense were boosted by holding the change Dawnshard, which is an identical description to someone of the third heightening, which is from Endowment. My point about Virtuosity is further backed up by a quote from Painter from Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, which states something about how Painter paints as an extension of his feeling, as a way to express his emotions, and Komashi, where Yumi takes place, is the planet Virtuosity resided before Splintering herself.

Edited January 1, 2025 by BobTheBuilding

[Sophrosyne He/any]

5 hours ago, BobTheBuilding said:

Endowment means to give a gift or to simply give, which changes both the recipient and the giver, in the way of possessing something. Virtuosity means to have a skill, particularly in music or art

Two things about shards:

1. They embody parts of a being and the Cosmere. Honor is all bonds from oaths sworn to gravity's tug. 

2. None of their intents have been as strait forward as we want them to be. Ruin wanted change as much or more as it wanted destruction.

With that in mind I just can't believe Virtuosity's intent is "skill at art/music". I think it's more in line with the second definition from The American Heritage Dictionary "An appreciation for or interest in fine objects of art" a lesser used meaning that goes as far as to explain why the Vessel willingly splintered her power. and fits Change/Feel extremely well.

TBH I've just no clue about Endowment. complete mystery that one is. if I had to guess here intent is JUST gift giving, and that's why Edgil so content to just do nothing. she acted to change her world and people, and the power will request nothing more of her.

[Nitpicking]

6 hours ago, Sophrosyne said:

TBH I've just no clue about Endowment. complete mystery that one is. if I had to guess here intent is JUST gift giving, and that's why Edgil so content to just do nothing. she acted to change her world and people, and the power will request nothing more of her.

I can't read Brandon's mind, but I like the idea the Edgli is being a nice version of Autonomy, sneakily gifting various people and cultures with things they don't even notice. Her unwilling, unwitting agent on Roshar is Vasher (who is canonically a Sliver of Endowment), and his training Lift might be super important, for instance.

[Argenti he/him]

14 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I can't read Brandon's mind, but I like the idea the Edgli is being a nice version of Autonomy, sneakily gifting various people and cultures with things they don't even notice. Her unwilling, unwitting agent on Roshar is Vasher (who is canonically a Sliver of Endowment), and his training Lift might be super important, for instance.

Vasher is a splinter, not a sliver. He never held Endowment, nor another shard.

[Nitpicking]

9 hours ago, Argenti said:

Vasher is a splinter, not a sliver. He never held Endowment, nor another shard.

All Returned are Slivers of Endowment, though. At least, that's what I remember. the search for the Arcanum doesn't make that easy to prove or disprove. I found one other forum message saying that, but nothing else.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Nitpicking said:

All Returned are Slivers of Endowment, though. At least, that's what I remember. the search for the Arcanum doesn't make that easy to prove or disprove. I found one other forum message saying that, but nothing else.

No. A Sliver is someone who once held the power of the Shard but since then they released it. It made their soul expand and then deflate, leaving some permanent changes on it. A Splinter is an autonomous part of the Shard, separated from its control and Identity. Returned aren't Slivers or Splinters, but their Divine Breaths are Splinters (not Slivers).

Spoiler

Alex M

What's the difference between avatar and Splinter?

Brandon Sanderson

These are all very weird terms that I'm just using.

*mistakenly answering for Sliver* A Sliver is a person who has held the power of a Shard, and then let go of it. A briefly held time, holding the infinite power of a Shard, but no longer does. So what does that do? That changes your soul, and leaves markers on it. It's a real physiological thing.

An avatar is... a Shard manifesting a semi-autonomous piece of themselves that is still connected to who they are. An avatar, for instance, of Autonomy - depending on how Autonomy creates that avatar - might know, might not know, but they are still an aspect, they are still part of Autonomy. And when you get down to it a part of them knows that, and it's almost a god roleplaying, but in a way that only a Shard, or a lowercase-g god in the Cosmere, can do.

Brandon Sanderson

*realizes that he answered for Sliver earlier, and clarifies*

A Splinter is a piece of a Shard that is fully autonomous, where an avatar is not. So something that is Splintered does not consider itself - and would not be considered by the definitions  - an actual piece of it [the Shard], and has free will. So once it has free will, and/or could develop free will (because some of the Splinters haven't gotten there yet), but is fully cut off from the direct control and self-identity of the Shard, then it is called a Splinter.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Skyler

If a Returned gives away his/her Breath they die right? So why doesn't Vasher die after he gives his to Denth?

Brandon Sanderson

They will die the moment they run out of Breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a Breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered Breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single Breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine Breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the Breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more Breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned Breath to Denth, just a number of normal Breaths.)

Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010)

 

[Nitpicking]

You aren't wrong, but Brandon himself uses the word inconsistently sometimes. Same with Avatar. @WeiryWriter complains about this a lot on Shardcast, and I have decided to believe whichever Brandon said the thing I prefer.

 

[feruchemicalrockband]

Definitely a solid analysis, and well-thought-out! I do have some reservations about it, though. I'll present my changes, then defend them.

On 12/30/2024 at 6:31 PM, Dofurion said:

『Exists』

• Preservation
• Reason
• Ambition
• Mercy

『Change』

• Invention
• Ruin
• Endowment
• Cultivation

『Feel』 (?)

• Valor
• Whimsy
• Odium
• Virtuosity

『Unite』 (?)

• Honor
• Autonomy
• Devotion
• Dominion

 

First, I think it's almost a certainty that Unite will be our third Dawnshard. Melishi, Mishram, and Dalinar were all connected to the Spiritual realm around Roshar, and seemed to have a distinct connection to the phrase "Unite them." (This was seen in the vision before Mishram was captured). If Unity was an intent specific to Honor, it wouldn't make sense for Mishram, an Unmade of Odium, to be connected to that intent. My best guess is that it has to do with what's up with Nohadon in the weird Spiritual Realm city, but we won't know for a long time.

I'll use your double-intent grouping to explain my thought process for my changes:

『Exists』Ambition「Feel」

Ambition is a requirement for a living being. Without Ambition, there is no drive to survive, reproduce, find safety, or look past those things. Ambition is also a desire, and so has the sub-intent of Feel.

『Exists』Mercy「Unite」

I've moved Mercy to the Unite sub-intent as there's a specific requirement for Mercy to be given to others, and it requires them to be under your power in some capacity. Essentially, there's a necessary Connection to be made before Mercy can be given.

『Change』Endowment「Feel」

Endowment is absolutely Change, as it's adding to something that wasn't there before. Endowment is freely-given, meaning there are no strings attached. This implies there is no structure or Connection necessary, leaving Unite out of the equation for the Sub-Intent. This really only leaves Feel, as giving freely depends on emotions, and not some sort of logic or structure.

『Change』Cultivation「Unite」

Cultivation is structured growth, which makes Change/Unite fairly obvious.

『Feel』Virtuosity「Unite」

I found this one hard to place as well, but I'm choosing to lean towards the "artistic appreciation/expression" side of the intent. It's expressing or recognizing feelings, but specifically through the lens of art. This makes me lean towards putting it in the Unite sub-intent as it gives it a requirement, or structure, or Connection.

『Unite』Honor「Exist」

Making bonds, and keeping them. Fairly straightforward.

『Unite』Autonomy「Change」

It would be a mistake to see Autonomy as an individualistic Shard. The Coppermind states that Autonomy's intent is closer to natural selection, finding the best option by pitting different versions against each other. This doesn't just apply to individuals, but also to social structures and infrastructure. Autonomy wants everything to become the best version of one thing, consistent and perfect. It's the opposite of Cultivation, which is more about using structure to change something.

『Unite』Devotion「Feel」

I'm always surprised when people put Devotion as primarily Feel, when Devotion is very much a connection between two things. Devotion can't be found by itself, and covers much more than just love. Also, Devotion isn't necessarily unidirectional, or singular. Two people can be Devoted to each other, or multiple people can be Devoted to the same cause.

『Unite』Dominion「Unite」

Dominion is another word for control, or sovereignty. This one shouldn't need much explanation, either.

[Dofurion]

On 12/31/2024 at 8:16 PM, BobTheBuilding said:

My point about Virtuosity is further backed up by a quote from Painter from Yumi and the Nightmare Painter, which states something about how Painter paints as an extension of his feeling, as a way to express his emotions, and Komashi, where Yumi takes place, is the planet Virtuosity resided before Splintering herself.

Just a note. Painter is a bad example since trapping Nightmares in paintings is a general cosmere mechanic, not something specific to Komashi. And what we do have related to Virtuosity are the Yoki Haijo whose skills are more on the technical side.

3 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

First, I think it's almost a certainty that Unite will be our third Dawnshard. Melishi, Mishram, and Dalinar were all connected to the Spiritual realm around Roshar, and seemed to have a distinct connection to the phrase "Unite them." (This was seen in the vision before Mishram was captured). If Unity was an intent specific to Honor, it wouldn't make sense for Mishram, an Unmade of Odium, to be connected to that intent. My best guess is that it has to do with what's up with Nohadon in the weird Spiritual Realm city, but we won't know for a long time.

After this book, I'm not really convinced that Unite is a Dawnshard commando. But I don't rule anything out.
As a curiosity: before using the well to join the Listeners, the only ability that Mishram shows is healing.

3 hours ago, feruchemicalrockband said:

『Change』Endowment「Feel」

Endowment is absolutely Change, as it's adding to something that wasn't there before. Endowment is freely-given, meaning there are no strings attached. This implies there is no structure or Connection necessary, leaving Unite out of the equation for the Sub-Intent. This really only leaves Feel, as giving freely depends on emotions, and not some sort of logic or structure.

The truth is, I considered exchanging the primary dawnshard for the secondary and vice versa on several occasions, but since the double influence is a conjecture, I prefer to maintain the consistency of chapter 1.

On 12/30/2024 at 11:26 PM, Sophrosyne said:

Amazing post my Dofurion! All of the Dawnshard posts are really.

I'm glad you liked it.
As a curiosity: between chapter 2 and chapter 3 I had another section in which I listed all the Shards associated with each other (according to Dawnshard) and in case『Feel』is correct, it fits with the number of Intentions that minimally resemble feelings and excludes all those that don't.

Quote

 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

On 1/2/2025 at 1:52 PM, feruchemicalrockband said:

First, I think it's almost a certainty that Unite will be our third Dawnshard. Melishi, Mishram, and Dalinar were all connected to the Spiritual realm around Roshar, and seemed to have a distinct connection to the phrase "Unite them."

That would imply that THREE dawn shards were on Roshar wouldn't it? I find it more likely that this is a survive situation where a common phrase is just Shadric command, a little 'd' Dawnshard.

[CMac716]

So, are we under the impression that the Change + Exist is different than the Exist + Change?  Because the idea i had was that Change functioned as an inversion when used second. I.e. Change + Change would be Preservation. Rather than wanting Change as the Primary Dawnshard would imply, it wants things to stop changing and stay exactly the way they are. Exist + Change would be Ruin. You don't want stuff around, you want it to end.

Another idea i had for a Dawnshard is Care. To care completely is to Devote yourself, but invert it with Change, and you become a bit Odius.

I could never find a good 4th. I got hung up on Control for a while. Power or Empower was another. Recently I've liked Potential. The concept of what could be. Invention, Reason, and Virtuousity all work well as a primary Shard, and Whimsy makes a perfect inversion. Someone with no Potential because they're too busy living in the moment.

[OoklaApologist She/her]

I’m pretty sure there’s a WoB giving a few hints on these categories, but I don’t have it saved. I’m not that good at finding them, can someone help out?

[Dofurion]

On 1/6/2025 at 10:57 PM, KelsierApologist said:

I’m pretty sure there’s a WoB giving a few hints on these categories, but I don’t have it saved. I’m not that good at finding them, can someone help out?

 

Quote

• Quote

  • pundromeda

  • Question that I expect to get RAFOed: Does each Shard correspond to a particular Dawnshard? i.e. are there 4 Shards that correspond to the Change Dawnshard (of which I assume Ruin and Cultivation would be 2)?

  • Brandon Sanderson

  • RAFO, as expected.

  • Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

•  

  Quote

  ArgentSun

  If Rysn's Dawnshard is about Change or Remaking or something like, how do we refer to it? The Dawnshard of Change? The Change Dawnshard? I am asking purely from a semantic standpoint.

  Brandon Sanderson

  I haven't honestly decided yet, Argent. I am playing with several themes for the Dawnshards even still.

  David-El

  It seemed from the way the mural was done in the book that you were implying that there are four Dawnshards, one for each four of the shards, considering the sun was split in four, then each quadrant was then further split into four more.

  Brandon Sanderson

  RAFO, I'm afraid. As I said somewhere else, this was written as it was deliberately--but also somewhat vague on purpose.

  Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

   

•  

  Quote

  asmodeus

  Can you tell us a little bit more about what these things are? The book itself gives us a lot in very little, so it'd be nice to get some perspective on how you think about these. Not necessarily fishing for more information, just... clarity on what we just learned.

  Brandon Sanderson

  By "these things" do you mean the Dawnshards? In this case, I can't say more, I'm afraid. They're plot points in future books, and I maybe already explained more than I should have.

  asmodeus

  I was mostly wondering what happened in the cave. It's... it feels like the Command to change, to remake, was somehow imprinted or passed onto a mural, and then when Rysn looked at it, it passed back onto, and perhaps into her.

  Where I'm a little confused is... is the Command, the Dawnshard, "binding" to her as this thing outside of her, or is it becoming a part of her? Or are these two cases, depending on how you look at this, the same thing?

  Also, curious based on how the mural was described in terms of four fours, but is the number of Shards being 16 a function of how the four Dawnshards were used to Shatter?

  Brandon Sanderson

  Mostly RAFOs, here, I'm afraid.

  To those in-world, she now IS the Dawnshard. Whether that's what the community thinks is another story.

  Phantine

  Would that make Hoid a "Dawnsliver", or is there some other fancypants terms for it?

  Brandon Sanderson

  Depends on a variety of things, Phantine. But I'd be okay with that terminology. It's basically accurate.

  Gale_Emchild

  Does that mean that before she became the Dawnshard that the wall was?

  Brandon Sanderson

  More the mural. But yes, that would be the implication. Note that it was not an ordinary mural.

  Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

   

• Quote

  ArgentSun

  Now, I can share the Dawnshard theory I am currently running with, and you can super RAFO it (while also providing a cryptic teasing hint that will frustrate for years?). But before that, thank you for this book. It's not quite Secret History level stuff, but it's fantastic in a very similar way, and I am genuinely happy, and giddy, and also not a small amount of confused

  But theory. So, I am thinking that the Dawnshards are Commands in the way "Let there be light" is a command, and the four of them are enough to explain everything. If one of them is Change (something into something else), then other plausible options might be Create (something from nothing), some form of Destroy (something into nothing), and... Stasis? Maintain? Remain? something like that.

  Brandon Sanderson

  Super RAFO! Nice theory.

  trimeta

  Ooh, another "identity of the Dawnshards" theory, triggered by OP's "Let there be light" comment: I don't suppose the Dawnshards are in any way related to Maxwell's Equations (of which there are four), which govern electromagnetism? I used to have a t-shirt that said "And God said: <Maxwell's Equations>. And there was light," which is what got me thinking.

  Brandon Sanderson

  That's a big old RAFO, but mostly because I'm trying to stay tight lipped on the subject of Dawnshards.

  Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

•  

  Quote

  Dairetron

  In Dawnshard, when Rysn's looking at the mural, it's exploding the sun into four pieces and then each of them is broken into four from there. Based on this, would it be reasonable to assume four Shards of similar Intent could be able to form like a super-Shard without the issues Sazed is encountering? For example, say Honor, Valor, Mercy, and the last maybe unknown Shard like Wisdom or something like that?

  Brandon Sanderson

  That is a correct line of theorizing.

  Tampa Bay Comic Convention 2023 (July 28, 2023)

These are all the ones I could find. If the ones I posted don't include what you're thinking of, you can give me more details about the context of the conversation that you remember.

[OoklaApologist She/her]

I probably hallucinated it. I looked on arcanum for like an hour and got nothing

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, KelsierApologist said:

I probably hallucinated it. I looked on arcanum for like an hour and got nothing

It happens to us all. For a while I thought Ruin and Preservation were brothers.

[Gildedorca]

On 12/31/2024 at 4:26 AM, Sophrosyne said:

Amazing post my Dofurion! All of the Dawnshard posts are really.

I think you may have me onboard with your groupings. I've never been big on the idea of two dawn shards effecting each shard, it felt like we were going a bridge to far seeing as we only had the 'it makes sense' argument to work from. but with the paring of shards, you demonstrated in chapter 3 I think it's abit too neat to be coincidental. and what with us knowing Bradon was very intentional when he split Ado. you have me sold.

  Hide contents

Questioner

Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature.

Brandon Sanderson

So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium...

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

The WOB goes on, but I think the key here is the Shards representing aspects of personality. Another thread by u/TheoreticalMagic points out the overlap between the Dawnshards and Jungian personality attitudes- which then have 12 (not 16) corresponding archetypes. Roughly, there are 4 fundamental attitudes of psyche which are divided into three aspects ego, self, and soul. Together that produces 12 archetypes. Likely that BS followed a similar process with the Dawnshards, even basing them on the attitudes- spiritual growth, creating/leaving a mark, guiding/providing structure, and connecting to others. The strong evidence is that the Jungian mandala representing this split is a near 1:1 match to the Dawnshard chart.

So I would agree we should approach the Shards as 4+12- Four fundamental Shards aligned to the Dawnshards (mono-affected), then 12 bi-affected. Each bi-affected should come in a set of three which correspond to the physical/mental/spiritual division of the Cosmere and Metallic Arts chart, matching the grouping of Jungian archetypes in the mandala. Ideally the 12 "bi-affected" would match the Aethers.

For example using how you've sorted the Shards: 

• EXIST- Preservation (mono-affected), Autonomy (physical), Reason (mental), Mercy (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "providing structure"
• CHANGE- Ruin (mono-affected), Invention (physical), Virtuosity (mental), Cultivation (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "leaving a mark"
• FEEL- Odium (mono-affected), Valor (physical), Whimsy (mental), Devotion (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "spiritual and emotional growth"
• ACT- Honor (mono-affected), Dominion (physical), Ambition (mental), Endowment (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "connecting to others"

[Dofurion]

On 1/23/2025 at 4:41 PM, Gildedorca said:

The WOB goes on, but I think the key here is the Shards representing aspects of personality. Another thread by u/TheoreticalMagic points out the overlap between the Dawnshards and Jungian personality attitudes- which then have 12 (not 16) corresponding archetypes. Roughly, there are 4 fundamental attitudes of psyche which are divided into three aspects ego, self, and soul. Together that produces 12 archetypes. Likely that BS followed a similar process with the Dawnshards, even basing them on the attitudes- spiritual growth, creating/leaving a mark, guiding/providing structure, and connecting to others. The strong evidence is that the Jungian mandala representing this split is a near 1:1 match to the Dawnshard chart.

So I would agree we should approach the Shards as 4+12- Four fundamental Shards aligned to the Dawnshards (mono-affected), then 12 bi-affected. Each bi-affected should come in a set of three which correspond to the physical/mental/spiritual division of the Cosmere and Metallic Arts chart, matching the grouping of Jungian archetypes in the mandala. Ideally the 12 "bi-affected" would match the Aethers.

For example using how you've sorted the Shards: 

• EXIST- Preservation (mono-affected), Autonomy (physical), Reason (mental), Mercy (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "providing structure"
• CHANGE- Ruin (mono-affected), Invention (physical), Virtuosity (mental), Cultivation (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "leaving a mark"
• FEEL- Odium (mono-affected), Valor (physical), Whimsy (mental), Devotion (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "spiritual and emotional growth"
• ACT- Honor (mono-affected), Dominion (physical), Ambition (mental), Endowment (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "connecting to others"

Based on the groupings you made (according to Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual) I was able to do another of the most recurrent mental exercises when grouping Shards, grouping them according to the allomantically viable metals. And I think that this result is the one that has convinced me the most of all my attempts:

• Iron『Dominion』
• Steel『Autonomy』
• Tin『Invention』
• Pewter『Valor』
   
• Zinc『Ambition』
• Brass『Reason』
• Copper『Whimsy』
• Bronze『Virtuosity』
   
• Cadmium『Preservation』
• Bendaleum『Ruin』
• Gold『Honor』
• Electro『Odium』
   
• Chromium『Mercy』
• Nicrosil『Devotion』
• Aluminum『Endowment』
• Duralumin『Cultivation』

Edited February 2, 2025 by Dofurion

[Ewery1]

11 hours ago, Dofurion said:

Based on the groupings you made (according to Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual) I was able to do another of the most recurrent mental exercises when grouping Shards, grouping them according to the allomantically viable metals. And I think that this result is the one that has convinced me the most of all my attempts:

• Iron『Dominion』
• Steel『Autonomy』
• Tin『Invention』
• Pewter『Valor』
   
• Zinc『Ambition』
• Brass『Reason』
• Copper『Whimsy』
• Bronze『Virtuosity』
   
• Cadmium『Preservation』
• Bendaleum『Ruin』
• Gold『Honor』
• Electro『Odium』
   
• Chromium『Mercy』
• Nicrosil『Devotion』
• Aluminum『Endowment』
• Duralumin『Cultivation』

Would switch Ambition & Odium - rioting is very much like Odium & seeing futures seems very Ambition-oriented.

[Gildedorca]

I agree that's a better match for the metals, but it seems odd to move Odium from "Feel" to "Act", and Ambition from "Act" to "Feel". Perhaps another term for the Dawnshards? Alternatively, perhaps some Shards are incorrectly sorted? I'm not sure about the actual groupings, but I do agree with the logic of 12+4 and the Jungian influence on the Shard divisions.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 1/23/2025 at 9:41 PM, Gildedorca said:

 

• EXIST- Preservation (mono-affected), Autonomy (physical), Reason (mental), Mercy (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "providing structure"
• CHANGE- Ruin (mono-affected), Invention (physical), Virtuosity (mental), Cultivation (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "leaving a mark"
• FEEL- Odium (mono-affected), Valor (physical), Whimsy (mental), Devotion (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "spiritual and emotional growth"
• ACT- Honor (mono-affected), Dominion (physical), Ambition (mental), Endowment (spiritual); corresponding Jungian attitude "connecting to others"

That sums up the problem. This division is plausible, but no more plausible than other divisions. You could see Whimsy as random change. Some people kill out of their interpretation of Mercy.